--- Log opened Sat Jun 09 00:00:01 2018 20180609 00:02:17<+discordbot1> @Vultraz Would it be terribly difficult for the user list group headings in the lobby to be fully clickable, instead of just the expander arrows? 20180609 00:02:47<+discordbot1> It's very awkward to use right now and not really in line with most UIs like that these days. 20180609 00:03:00<+discordbot1> ugh 20180609 00:03:24< celticminstrel> Aren't they clickable in some places or am I just imagining things 20180609 00:03:30<+discordbot1> possibly 20180609 00:03:32< celticminstrel> (I mean listbox headers in general in Wesnoth) 20180609 00:03:48<+discordbot1> we're not talking about listbox headers 20180609 00:04:00<+discordbot1> Yeah this is a tree view. 20180609 00:04:11< celticminstrel> Oh. 20180609 00:04:39<+discordbot1> it's possible but probably not trivial 20180609 00:06:05<+discordbot1> i could get rid of the button altogether 20180609 00:08:18<+discordbot1> agh. yeah, this is non-trivial. 20180609 00:08:33<+discordbot1> 😦 20180609 00:08:56<+discordbot1> I'd have to think more how best to do it. 20180609 00:09:20<+discordbot1> and now I'm reminded I never got around to doing that lobby filter cleanup I wanted to do 20180609 00:09:24<+discordbot1> dammit 20180609 00:13:41<+discordbot1> celticminstrel: off topic - would it be possible to revise the config {} syntax (which isn't an initializer list I see?) to be more in line with normal convention? Ie, each key/value pair gets wrapped in its own {} 20180609 00:24:14< celticminstrel> I don't think so, at least definitely not in C++11. 20180609 00:24:39< celticminstrel> I originally tried getting that syntax but it wouldn't compile due to template deduction errors or something. 20180609 00:24:51< celticminstrel> But TBH I think the current syntax is just fine? 20180609 00:25:03< celticminstrel> Sure there's one less layer of brackets, but... 20180609 00:25:10< celticminstrel> It contains all the info you need. 20180609 00:35:52< irker754> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Nils Kneuper f8742ccce4 updated Scottish Gaelic translation AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180609 01:29:23<+discordbot1> Maybe we were doing it wrong 20180609 01:29:44<+discordbot1> Because that syntax is definitely possible 20180609 01:30:38<+discordbot1> Mainly the extra β€œconfig” specifier for nested tags is a bit ugly 20180609 01:37:53<+discordbot1> god dammit VS Code you've been "downloading update" for the past 24 hours 20180609 01:40:36< gfgtdf> 20180609 01:29:44<+discordbot1> Because that syntax is definitely possible 20180609 01:40:41< gfgtdf> then prove it. 20180609 01:41:28< celticminstrel> Guessing he'd be citing that JSON library as proff. 20180609 01:41:37< celticminstrel> I'm not convinced that that JSON library is proof though. 20180609 01:41:56<+discordbot1> stop reading my mind 😐 20180609 01:42:07< celticminstrel> You're welcome. 20180609 01:42:20<+discordbot1> but yes, that is the example, and it's written in c++11 20180609 01:43:22< celticminstrel> TBH I don't particularly mind the extra "config" specifier. 20180609 01:43:34<+discordbot1> wouldn't the thing with the extra {} be that it's actually the initializer for config_attribute_value? 20180609 01:43:56< celticminstrel> Um, no? 20180609 01:44:10<+discordbot1> oh wait, that only holds the value 20180609 01:44:23< celticminstrel> You definitely can't do this with an std::initializer_list. 20180609 01:44:46< celticminstrel> Because you need to take a mix of pair and pair. 20180609 01:45:18<+discordbot1> unless you make a config a valid attribute value value 20180609 01:45:46< celticminstrel> Which is also interpretable as a mix of pair, pair, pair, pair, pair, pair, pair. 20180609 01:46:12< celticminstrel> (Might be an unsigned int in there too. 20180609 01:46:13< celticminstrel> ) 20180609 01:47:20< celticminstrel> "unless you make a config a valid attribute value value" how would that even work 20180609 01:48:16<+discordbot1> c["foo"] = { "key", "value" }; being equivalent to config& bar = c.add_child("foo"); foo["key"] = "value"; 20180609 01:48:31< celticminstrel> That's not even. 20180609 01:49:07<+discordbot1> even what 20180609 01:49:20< celticminstrel> "making a config a valid attribute value value" 20180609 01:51:02<+discordbot1> alright, then, broadly. if config_attribute_value has a ctor that takes a config, then couldn't the value value just be forwarded to the appropriate config_attribute_value ctor without the special case handling 20180609 01:51:16<+discordbot1> whatever you want that ctor to actually do 20180609 01:56:28< celticminstrel> I feel like adding this constructor would have a whole lot of unintented (possibly undesirable) consequences but I can't think of a specific example. 20180609 01:57:47<+discordbot1> and yes, i just realized my previous example would be an assignment operator 20180609 01:57:50<+discordbot1> not a ctor 20180609 01:58:07< celticminstrel> Indeed. 20180609 01:58:09< celticminstrel> ... 20180609 01:58:11< celticminstrel> Wait a sec. 20180609 01:58:21< celticminstrel> I don't think that would even be possible? 20180609 01:58:40<+discordbot1> which one? 20180609 01:58:50< celticminstrel> That's an assignment operator on config_attribute_value. 20180609 01:59:06< celticminstrel> The only way it could work is if the config_attribute_value "knows" which config it belongs to. 20180609 01:59:31< celticminstrel> (Or the indexing operator actually returns a magic type that's coerceable to config_attribute_value rather than the actual config_attribute_value.) 20180609 01:59:58<+discordbot1> ah, true... 20180609 02:00:26<+discordbot1> (god dammit x100 I can't even download the vs code update manually because it keeps failing with "network error") 20180609 02:05:08<+discordbot1> I'm not even sure what c_a_v ctor taking a config would do 20180609 02:05:19< celticminstrel> Yeah exactly. 20180609 02:05:25<+discordbot1> maybe nothing 20180609 02:05:25< celticminstrel> There's no logical thing for it to do. 20180609 02:05:46<+discordbot1> since the nested config ctor would handle actually assigning the values 20180609 02:05:47< celticminstrel> Unless you make config an actual valid attribute value, and that's opening a new can of worms. 20180609 02:06:09<+discordbot1> well, that's one possibility 20180609 02:06:28<+discordbot1> it would be nice to simplify the add_child workflow 20180609 02:06:57< celticminstrel> I don't really see a problem with it? 20180609 02:07:08<+discordbot1> it's clunky 20180609 02:07:14< celticminstrel> How is it clunky? 20180609 02:07:46< celticminstrel> cfg.add_child("key", sub_cfg) right? 20180609 02:08:05<+discordbot1> yes 20180609 02:08:09< celticminstrel> I don't see any way that could be simplified further. 20180609 02:08:16< celticminstrel> It seems about as simple as you can get. 20180609 02:08:35< celticminstrel> And it returns the new config so if its contents vary you can easily do stuff to it after. 20180609 02:11:31<+discordbot1> well i suppose that specific case is fine. but say you're creating a new config and you want to have it completely wrapped in a tag. you need to do cpp config foo; config& bar = foo.add_child("tag"); there's also cpp config foo("tag"); config& bar = foo.child("tag"); Or say you have the config bar all filled out, and you want to wrap it in tag "test": cpp config bar; bar["celtic"] = "minstrel"; config foo; foo.add_child("test", 20180609 02:11:31<+discordbot1> std::move(bar)): 20180609 02:12:37< celticminstrel> So how would you even propose to simplify that though. 20180609 02:12:47<+discordbot1> not entirely sure. 20180609 02:13:04< celticminstrel> I mean, I don't see a way to do it. That doesn't mean a way doesn't exist, but... 20180609 02:16:13<+discordbot1> well, if we could do the assignment syntax as above it would simplify cpp config foo; config& bar = foo.add_child("tag"); bar["celtic"] = "minstrel"; to cpp config foo; foo["tag"] = {"celtic", "minstrel"}; And yes, I realize this one specific example would also work with this: (I think that's our current syntax): cpp config foo { "tag", config { "celtic", "minstrel" }} 20180609 02:17:09< celticminstrel> I don't think overloading assignment to mean add is a good idea though. 20180609 02:17:41<+discordbot1> I guess it's rather JSON-y 20180609 02:18:05< celticminstrel> IOW if you do that then it means that foo["tag"] = {"celtic", "minstrel"}; foo["tag"] = {"vult", "cave"}; does not overwrite {"celtic", "minstrel"} as you'd expect from a cursory reading of the code. 20180609 02:18:17< celticminstrel> However! 20180609 02:18:33< celticminstrel> I would be okay with overloading += or similar for this kind of purpose. 20180609 02:18:44<+discordbot1> πŸ€” 20180609 02:18:54<+discordbot1> "The volume of the ambient camp fire (in 1+2) and the cave sounds in later scenarios resets every time you load one of those scenarios." https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=629641#p629641 20180609 02:19:00< celticminstrel> Does config_attribute_value support += BTW? 20180609 02:19:07< celticminstrel> (Also what emoji is that as usual) 20180609 02:19:13<+discordbot1> I can confirm that for some reason the initial volume of sound sources upon loading a save is not adjusted to the Preferences slider for sound effects. 20180609 02:19:15<+discordbot1> :thinking: 20180609 02:19:39<+discordbot1> it does not support += currently 20180609 02:20:08< celticminstrel> Note that it could make sense to support += in config_attribute_value, and if we did support it there, it would not be good to override the same notation to append to a config. 20180609 02:20:46< celticminstrel> It might be better to use something like << or <<= or something for the config append. 20180609 02:21:11<+discordbot1> foo["tag"] << {"celtic", "minstrel"}; ? 20180609 02:21:23< celticminstrel> In any case, the first prerequisite for all this is making config::operator[] not return a config_attribute_value. 20180609 02:21:45< celticminstrel> Instead it would need to return some sort of generic config element reference which just holds the key and a reference to the config. 20180609 02:22:08<+discordbot1> blah 20180609 02:22:17<+discordbot1> perhaps this is to much work for nothing 20180609 02:22:19< celticminstrel> It can be casted to config _attribute_value or any of the types that config_attribute_value can be casted to. It can be assigned any of those types, and possibly aug-assigned even. 20180609 02:22:30< celticminstrel> And it would support the append-child syntax. 20180609 02:22:35< celticminstrel> Yeah I dunno if it's worth it. 20180609 02:22:37 * celticminstrel shrug. 20180609 02:23:58<+discordbot1> and this is a long way away from the original question anyway 20180609 02:23:59<+discordbot1> meh 20180609 02:24:04<+discordbot1> i guess what we have is fine 20180609 02:24:16< celticminstrel> I think what we have is pretty decent. 20180609 02:24:58<+discordbot1> it's fine except for that thing shadowm always complains about... 20180609 02:25:20< celticminstrel> ? 20180609 02:25:24<+discordbot1> the think that causes the "mandatory child missing" error you want to nuke from orbit 20180609 02:25:32< celticminstrel> Ah yes, that is pretty terrible. 20180609 02:26:40<+discordbot1> I'm not opposed to nuking it from orbit and dealing with the fallout 20180609 02:26:54< celticminstrel> That's probably the only way to remove it really. 20180609 02:27:06< celticminstrel> Just note that you do need to be sure to compile the servers too, if you do that. 20180609 02:27:12<+discordbot1> but you'd need to be the one to do it 20180609 02:27:19< celticminstrel> Or sure, whatever. 20180609 02:27:32< celticminstrel> Need to get master compiled first though. 20180609 02:27:33<+discordbot1> since I don't fully understand the config implementation 20180609 02:28:19<+discordbot1> still? 😦 20180609 02:28:44< celticminstrel> I haven't gotten back to it since the last time I said that. 20180609 02:28:52< celticminstrel> I figure it won't be that hard once I finally do get back to it. 20180609 02:29:01< celticminstrel> Probably the only missing piece was not having the VC14 libs. 20180609 02:29:25< celticminstrel> Still, I have other priorities... which I've also been neglecting, mind you. >_> 20180609 02:29:28<+discordbot1> not 15? 20180609 02:29:42< celticminstrel> I don't remember? 20180609 02:29:52<+discordbot1> assuming you want 2017 20180609 02:29:57< celticminstrel> I think I downloaded the libs for VS2015 20180609 02:30:15< celticminstrel> Why would I want 2017? That'll just cause me to accidentally commit broken code. 20180609 02:30:32<+discordbot1> I build with latest VS 2017 with C++17 mode enabled 20180609 02:30:37<+discordbot1> build master, that is 20180609 02:30:40< celticminstrel> Yeah that's the problem. 20180609 02:30:43< celticminstrel> Don't do that. 20180609 02:30:55< gfgtdf> i think we agreed to drop vc2015 for master for vc 14 compability. 20180609 02:30:57<+discordbot1> and we're probably droping 2015 supprt too 20180609 02:31:01< celticminstrel> At least turn off C++17 and build with C++14. 20180609 02:31:13< gfgtdf> for c++14 compability i meant 20180609 02:31:51< celticminstrel> I mean, I do have the 2017 tools so dropping VS2015 support wouldn't kill me, but I don't support it nevertheless. 20180609 02:32:25<+discordbot1> I don't understand why we're so hung up on supported windows IDEs of all things. 20180609 02:32:35<+discordbot1> we're not a library. we're a game. 20180609 02:33:07<+discordbot1> and 2017 is supported on 7 on 20180609 02:33:14<+discordbot1> which is our min supported version 20180609 02:33:18< celticminstrel> It's really more about the C++ version than the Windows IDE version though. 20180609 02:33:56< celticminstrel> And don't forget the Linux users, who are unlikely to have the absolute latest compilers. 20180609 02:34:22<+discordbot1> gcc/clang are lagging with 17 support 20180609 02:34:41< celticminstrel> Well there you go then. So we should stick to C++14 until at least 2020. 20180609 02:34:44<+discordbot1> well, actually, i think gcc 8 basically completed it 20180609 02:34:55< celticminstrel> Or at least until the C++ standard after C++17 is out. 20180609 02:35:06< celticminstrel> Which I think is predicted to be 2020 though? 20180609 02:35:38<+discordbot1> yes 20180609 02:36:01< celticminstrel> Lagging one C++ version behind is probably "good enough". 20180609 02:36:15< celticminstrel> Barring unusual circumstances. 20180609 02:36:22<+discordbot1> looks like everything we'd need is there as of gcc 7 (8 for std::filesystem) and clang... 4 (we don't need std::byte) 20180609 02:36:51< celticminstrel> Are you forgetting that some people may not have GCC7? 20180609 02:37:11<+discordbot1> can they not install it? I genuinely do not know 20180609 02:37:21<+discordbot1> since I don't use linux 20180609 02:37:40< celticminstrel> Technically they probably could, but I think that requires more technical know-how than the average gamer? 20180609 02:37:58< celticminstrel> Worst-case scenario it could mean they have to compile it themselves. 20180609 02:38:03<+discordbot1> you're assuming the average gamer compilers their games πŸ˜› 20180609 02:38:12<+discordbot1> compiles 20180609 02:38:18< celticminstrel> Well, Linux users don't precisely compile their games either. 20180609 02:38:42< celticminstrel> But I believe the packaging system on some distros is set up to be able to automatically download source packages and compile them. 20180609 02:39:05< celticminstrel> So it's the packagers that need to stick to whatever compiler the distro installs by default. 20180609 02:39:10<+discordbot1> given the time 1.15 will probably take we'll probably be good to set c++17 at the minimum by the end 20180609 02:39:36< celticminstrel> Maybe, maybe not. 20180609 02:39:40<+discordbot1> barring that we can just keep its code conditional 20180609 02:39:59<+discordbot1> but that means someone should maintain a 17 build to ensure it works 20180609 02:40:32< celticminstrel> There's nothing wrong with that, but more in the "compile with C++17 every so often to ensure it hasn't broken" vein. 20180609 02:41:09-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e36341e.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 52.8.0/20180430140610]] 20180609 02:41:17<+discordbot1> I can't add conditional compilation for std::optional and std::variant btw 20180609 02:41:30<+discordbot1> their interfaces differ too much from boost's 20180609 02:41:31<+discordbot1> Is there still no way to deselect units using Lua? 20180609 02:41:35< celticminstrel> I don't really care about this. 20180609 02:41:36<+discordbot1> ther eis a way 20180609 02:41:52< celticminstrel> @shadowm: Uh good question... 20180609 02:42:06<+discordbot1> also, making VS 2017 the minimum would be for better C++14 support 20180609 02:42:12<+discordbot1> not c++17 support 20180609 02:42:34<+discordbot1> For the record, wesnoth.deselect_hex does just that. Deselect the currently-selected hex. The unit selection remains intact and looks weird in fact. 20180609 02:43:12<+discordbot1> Before deselect_hex: 20180609 02:43:12<+discordbot1> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/454837840170319892/unknown.png 20180609 02:43:17< celticminstrel> @shadowm: Try wesnoth.select_unit() 20180609 02:43:22<+discordbot1> After: 20180609 02:43:22<+discordbot1> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/454837881865764865/unknown.png 20180609 02:43:26< celticminstrel> (Or pass nil to make it more explicit) 20180609 02:43:26<+discordbot1> Nope that doesn't do anything either. 20180609 02:43:32<+discordbot1> Or rather that really does nothing at all. 20180609 02:43:50<+discordbot1> Oh, it does with nil. 20180609 02:44:11< celticminstrel> It doesn't work with no arguments? 20180609 02:44:53< celticminstrel> Oh hey this doc comment is completely wrong isn't it? https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/scripting/game_lua_kernel.cpp#L2633 20180609 02:45:02<+discordbot1> Well, that too. But in both cases, it only works if the mouse isn't over the hex. 20180609 02:45:11< celticminstrel> Or wait... 20180609 02:45:21-!- fabi [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180609 02:45:38-!- fabi [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 02:45:44< celticminstrel> It's not wrong? 20180609 02:45:57<+discordbot1> If the mouse is on the hex the movement range stays highlighted, and wesnoth.deselect_hex doesn't do anything useful either. 20180609 02:45:58< celticminstrel> I thought select_unit was supposed to take a unit as its first parameter... 20180609 02:46:45< celticminstrel> Oh wait, luaW_checklocation counts a unit as a location. 20180609 02:46:50< celticminstrel> So that's why it works. 20180609 02:47:35< celticminstrel> (IIRC it also accepts both {x, y} amd {x=x,y=y}) 20180609 02:47:47< celticminstrel> ^and 20180609 03:28:41< irker754> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 josteph 1fb37b1010 Statistics dialog: preserve selected lin AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180609 04:03:33-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180609 04:04:10-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 04:36:30-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 05:00:13-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20180609 05:01:04-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 05:18:07-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180609 05:39:37<+discordbot1> Hm. A global sound source keeps being repositioned. 20180609 05:40:04<+discordbot1> Oh, it's because I have bound it to x,y=1,1. 20180609 05:40:41<+discordbot1> So it's not actually global, I just make it behave like one by making the full and fade ranges {INFINITY}. 20180609 05:41:29-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: wedge009] 20180609 05:42:18<+discordbot1> This has no actual bearing on the bug I'm trying to fix but it's a minor performance improvement I guess. 20180609 05:44:05<+discordbot1> It seems like sound sources in general forget their volume... 20180609 05:44:28<+discordbot1> It's not upon creation, it's upon repositioning... 20180609 05:45:04<+discordbot1> Curiouser and curiouser. 20180609 05:51:46<+discordbot1> Also oops, making a sound source truly global actually has the side effect of it not playing until something (????????????) triggers it. 20180609 05:52:39<+discordbot1> It seems like it's the [delay] in my scenario that makes it come to life. 20180609 05:54:24<+discordbot1> Why is this volume bug specifically caused by loading non-SOS saves. 20180609 05:56:30<+discordbot1> Oh never mind, I just forgot what my volume was set to, it does affect SOS saves too. 20180609 06:11:56-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 06:14:22<+discordbot1> @Vultraz If a GNU/Linux distribution doesn't offer a new enough compiler in its repositories, and no one has made a repo that backports such a compiler to the distro, then the user has to compile it themselves. 20180609 06:14:57<+discordbot1> And C++ compilers are pretty much the largest and hardest-to-compile code bases out there. One can expect such compilation to take hours. 20180609 06:25:25-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180609 06:25:31-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 06:28:36< irker754> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 stevecotton cf6bb49fae DiD S2: When ambushed by goblins, cancel AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180609 06:36:19<+discordbot1> it doesn't mean it'd work, either. Ubuntu 16.04 technically offers GCC 7 through a ppa, but it still chokes on something boost related when building wesnoth. 20180609 06:37:17<+discordbot1> Is it because of the libstdc++ version? 20180609 06:37:52<+discordbot1> (And if it's using the old GCC ABI, that would explain it, because the old ABI is incompatible with modern C++ features.) 20180609 06:39:10<+discordbot1> I don't remember the exact reason, only that it was some massive error output related to boost. 20180609 07:08:36< irker754> wesnoth: Iris Morelle wesnoth:master 45ab8e5b6229 / data/tools/about_cfg_to_wiki: Make Credits page on wiki.w.o use the new TOC markup for mobile support https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/45ab8e5b6229d40d3c23e2cd64d3c7922a1e55c8 20180609 07:08:43< irker754> wesnoth: Iris Morelle wesnoth:1.14 27bec8bf988d / data/tools/about_cfg_to_wiki: Make Credits page on wiki.w.o use the new TOC markup for mobile support https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/27bec8bf988d38547f8aaae4aad365b3efbdc52b 20180609 07:21:14<+discordbot1> @jyrkive I assume this relates to distros that don’t ship wesnoth already 20180609 07:21:19<+discordbot1> ? 20180609 07:27:40<+discordbot1> It could also affect whether a distro can ship wesnoth. 20180609 07:28:38<+discordbot1> I mean, ideally it could all be solved by just pointing everyone at the flatpak, but... 20180609 07:28:55<+discordbot1> that's a thing now, yes 20180609 07:32:07<+discordbot1> If the dependencies of a leaf package like Wesnoth can't be satisfied, yes, you can expect the distributors to not bother with it at all 20180609 07:32:31<+discordbot1> (You'd do the same, don't lie to yourself. Packaging is hard, thankless work. 20180609 07:38:53<+discordbot1> yes 20180609 07:46:22-!- Appleman1234_ [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 07:48:57<+discordbot1> It would also affect potential new developers. 20180609 07:49:25<+discordbot1> Nothing guarantees that someone who wants to join the project uses a recent GNU/Linux distribution. 20180609 07:50:43-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20180609 07:53:34<+discordbot1> well like I said I have no plans to make C++ 17 the minimum 20180609 07:53:47<+discordbot1> but I do think making VS 2017 the minimum is good 20180609 07:54:17<+discordbot1> Visual Studio is a paid IDE. 20180609 07:54:39<+discordbot1> It would be bad for someone who owns a copy of, say, VS2015 Enterprise, but not VS2017. 20180609 07:55:24<+discordbot1> I've been delaying doing so since I didn't end up needed extended constexpr after all 20180609 07:56:07< irker754> wesnoth/wesnoth:master stevecotton 8d055bf038 DiD S2: When ambushed by goblins, cancel AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180609 07:56:17<+discordbot1> and to your point, Community is free. 20180609 07:56:34<+discordbot1> Yes, but it has less features than the other versions. 20180609 07:57:21<+discordbot1> what does Enterprise have that Community doesn't, actually... 20180609 07:57:24<+discordbot1> I never checked 20180609 07:58:16<+discordbot1> aren;t you supposed to not use community in a corporate setting or something 20180609 07:58:58<+discordbot1> Yes. The license doesn't allow Community to be used in companies with more than five developers. 20180609 07:59:20<+discordbot1> I assume w edon't count because we don't hire anyone 20180609 08:00:47<+discordbot1> but how could you possibly enforce such a rule anyway. 20180609 08:01:08<+discordbot1> They don't enforce it with technical restrictions. 20180609 08:01:33<+discordbot1> Quite simply, not many companies would even attempt to violate the license. 20180609 08:02:40-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 08:03:58<+discordbot1> well I assume if you're a company that can hire > 5 people you could buy an enterprise license. 20180609 08:04:46<+discordbot1> We were using Professional at Rovio. 20180609 08:05:52<+discordbot1> Here is a comparison of Visual Studio editions: https://www.visualstudio.com/vs/compare/ 20180609 08:06:39<+discordbot1> In addition to that list, I recall that mixed-mode debugging (ability to debug both C++ and C# code in the same program at the same time) isn't available in the Community Edition. 20180609 08:06:53<+discordbot1> That's a feature I have needed myself at one point. 20180609 08:07:27-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180609 08:07:28-!- gallaecio_ [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 08:10:08<+discordbot1> innntersting 20180609 08:19:42-!- Appleman1234_ is now known as Appleman1234 20180609 08:23:09-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 08:31:11-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180609 09:29:40-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 10:57:17-!- irker754 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20180609 10:59:12-!- irker593 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 10:59:12< irker593> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master 725f6eba04e3 / po/ (6 files in 6 dirs): updated Czech translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/725f6eba04e3f7ae10369e256e4b71ecd1520b00 20180609 10:59:12< irker593> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master 92816d42d5ce / po/ (5 files in 5 dirs): updated Japanese translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/92816d42d5ce60c570a74a666f05bc03b7a83acc 20180609 10:59:12< irker593> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:1.14 fe994f6854d6 / changelog.md players_changelog.md po/wesnoth-help/cs.po po/wesnoth-lib/cs.po: updated Czech translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/fe994f6854d6fbe23b6ca344bb4c3f70d5287377 20180609 10:59:13< irker593> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:1.14 651e975438d5 / / (7 files in 6 dirs): updated Japanese translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/651e975438d553c80da90d0ef3b01b1ccb667e81 20180609 11:23:48-!- fabi [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20180609 11:25:11<+discordbot1> @loonycyborg could you run the pre-release pot update sometime in the next 12 hours? 20180609 11:25:52<+discordbot1> ok 20180609 11:26:54-!- fabi [~fabi@200116b82ba7870061e743431115cda0.dip.versatel-1u1.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 11:26:54-!- fabi [~fabi@200116b82ba7870061e743431115cda0.dip.versatel-1u1.de] has quit [Changing host] 20180609 11:26:54-!- fabi [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 11:26:56<+discordbot1> it can be done anytime, no particular updates I should wait for? 20180609 11:27:42<+discordbot1> I doubt ivanvoic will have anything else in the next 12 hours since he just committed something 20180609 11:29:08<+discordbot1> and unless bitron has info to the contrary I thik any time is fine 20180609 11:30:07<+discordbot1> Question for the pros: how are low level APIs like directX, OGL and such different from each other? Or, well, if I learn just one of them, how easy would be picking up a new one? 20180609 11:33:17<+discordbot1> opengl changed ti lesser degree over the years 20180609 11:33:47<+discordbot1> dx was changed often and depends on some microsoft specific idioms like COM 20180609 11:34:42<+discordbot1> also its latest update is really confusing, it's totally different thing, more akin to vulkan/metal 20180609 11:35:06<+discordbot1> something that most people wouldn't want to use directly 20180609 11:35:34<+discordbot1> if you want to make a 3d app you'll be better served using some middleware, like Unity 20180609 11:40:06<+discordbot1> also for opensource work d3d is fully useless 20180609 11:41:14<+discordbot1> why? 20180609 11:41:45<+discordbot1> not ported to OSes many people use here 20180609 11:42:25<+discordbot1> you could make an open source app for windows only 20180609 11:43:01<+discordbot1> and what's the point to exclude non-windows people? That's totally useless 20180609 11:43:45<+discordbot1> I dunno. I'm just saying you might want to write a windows-exclusive app 20180609 11:44:27<+discordbot1> Why? The only reason to do so would be if you don't know how to use cross-platform apis 20180609 11:44:40<+discordbot1> I don't know 20180609 11:44:53<+discordbot1> Maybe you're writing a game and don't want to bother making it cross-platform 20180609 11:45:37<+discordbot1> Nowadays being cross-platform isn't too hard 20180609 11:45:53<+discordbot1> platform specific stuff should be kept to minimum 20180609 11:45:59<+discordbot1> only to system utilities 20180609 11:47:01<+discordbot1> anyway, I assume you're referring to DX12 being different? 20180609 11:47:21<+discordbot1> yes, it's variant of metal/vulkan, not of opengl 20180609 11:48:16<+discordbot1> I still don't entirely understand the difference between metal and vulkan 20180609 11:48:16<+discordbot1> 😐 20180609 11:48:33<+discordbot1> they're both low level graphics api 20180609 11:48:43<+discordbot1> afaik it's closer to what you'd find on consoles 20180609 11:59:44<+discordbot1> Isn't metal Apple's own graphics API? 20180609 12:02:52<+discordbot1> yes 20180609 12:04:13-!- stikonas_ [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 12:04:27-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180609 12:05:10<+discordbot1> anyway, open standards are always better than defacto standards. 20180609 12:06:04<+discordbot1> Because if you got swindled into using some corporation's proprietiary api you'd be at their mercy 20180609 12:06:39<+discordbot1> And if it will ever become dominant then immediately it will become unprofitable for that corporation to develop it further 20180609 12:06:56<+discordbot1> in such situation other people can take over if it's open standard 20180609 12:07:14<+discordbot1> if it's proprietiary then a painful change of api will be needed 20180609 12:07:18<+discordbot1> and lot of relearning 20180609 12:09:08<+discordbot1> For the record, an open source project of mine is Windows-only. 20180609 12:09:38<+discordbot1> I created it to refresh my knowledge of C# and .NET, and decided to use Microsoft's APIs for everything while I was there. 20180609 12:10:20<+discordbot1> It depends on WPF, DirectX, Windows Media Foundation, and either DirectSound or XAudio2. 20180609 12:16:29< irker593> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:1.14 244384218b79 / src/events.cpp: Fix build with Visual Studio 2013 https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/244384218b79842ea98b3d3a66d2ede2bc1b80dd 20180609 12:16:54<+discordbot1> ^ 1.14 exclusive. Master doesn't support VS2013 anyway. 20180609 12:18:56<+discordbot1> how come in this case, it's value assignment, but inline, it's copy assignment 20180609 12:19:18-!- fabi [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180609 12:23:14-!- fabi [~fabi@200116b82ba78700ac6f726ddf6a9188.dip.versatel-1u1.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 12:23:14-!- fabi [~fabi@200116b82ba78700ac6f726ddf6a9188.dip.versatel-1u1.de] has quit [Changing host] 20180609 12:23:14-!- fabi [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 12:28:57<+discordbot1> My guess would be that the inline assignment needs to be constexpr. 20180609 13:18:58-!- stikonas_ is now known as stikonas 20180609 13:43:18< irker593> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Iris Morelle 45ab8e5b62 Make Credits page on wiki.w.o use the ne AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180609 14:05:34<+discordbot1> Something potentially useful: https://youtu.be/5psGWTE5PwY?t=6m42s 20180609 14:06:11<+discordbot1> TL;DW: this game developer argues that it'sgenerally not a good idea to publish estimated future release times of games. 20180609 14:06:37<+discordbot1> It applies to all software 20180609 14:07:01<+discordbot1> Yeah, indeed. 20180609 14:07:37<+discordbot1> At my career, there has been only one time when the release date of a game I have worked on has truly been set in stone in advance. 20180609 14:07:57<+discordbot1> Building some program is not like building a house 20180609 14:08:02<+discordbot1> It was Angry Birds Stella, because we had a business agreement with Hasbro that specified the date. 20180609 14:08:09<+discordbot1> it's like building a blueprint for building houses πŸ˜› 20180609 14:09:01<+discordbot1> In all other cases, my employers simply have not given away the freedom to delay the project if necessary. 20180609 14:17:01<+discordbot1> for example, you can never have a deadline on scientific discoveries, because you need to know the end result before you can make time estimates 20180609 14:17:25<+discordbot1> and programming has an element of scientific discovery too, yet still many things can be estimated there 20180609 14:17:45<+discordbot1> so it's somewhere in the middle between science and factory work πŸ˜› 20180609 14:29:14< celticminstrel> I wish we had mixed-mode debugging though (but for Lua/C++ rather than C#/C++). 20180609 15:13:19< irker593> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Iris Morelle 27bec8bf98 Make Credits page on wiki.w.o use the ne AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180609 15:27:13-!- gallaecio_ [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Converse confortabelmente. En calquera parte.] 20180609 15:29:57-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 15:35:10-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20180609 16:06:55-!- octalot [~steve@91.141.3.100.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 16:26:28< irker593> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:1.14 ea65af0328cc / src/ (actions/move.cpp game_events/pump.cpp game_events/pump.hpp): Remove game_events::wml_event_pump::wml_tracking() https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ea65af0328ccf2886dc53b104dcc06c6c82f38a1 20180609 16:26:36-!- sigurdfd [sigurdfd@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 16:36:10< irker593> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:master f0896bdf8c9a / src/ (actions/move.cpp game_events/pump.cpp game_events/pump.hpp): Remove game_events::wml_event_pump::wml_tracking() https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f0896bdf8c9af1f23269e4745a993259b4def060 20180609 16:40:25-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 17:00:08< irker593> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Nils Kneuper 92816d42d5 updated Japanese translation AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180609 17:16:52-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180609 17:16:58-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 17:32:01<+discordbot1> ahh thanks for getting to that 20180609 17:43:57-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|away 20180609 17:49:54-!- DeFender1031 [~DeFender1@89-138-13-24.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 18:01:31-!- Ravana_ [~Ravana@unaffiliated/ravana/x-2327071] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20180609 18:02:02-!- Ravana_ [~Ravana@unaffiliated/ravana/x-2327071] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 18:04:02-!- oldlaptop_ [~quassel@45.63.78.126] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 18:04:07-!- oldlaptop [~quassel@45.63.78.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20180609 18:06:18-!- madmax28 [madmax28ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-cpfhbebgsnzaexow] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180609 18:06:54-!- ChipmunkV[m] [chipmunkvm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ggsksyrssbovcban] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20180609 18:06:57-!- irker593 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180609 18:07:15-!- Kawa[m] [kawamatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ijxtltmmphyuvptl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180609 18:07:56-!- sigurdfd [sigurdfd@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has quit [] 20180609 18:35:44<+discordbot1> @zookeeper can I commit my new Parthyn maps? 20180609 18:35:55< zookeeper> what do they look like atm? 20180609 18:37:20-!- fabi [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20180609 18:39:16<+discordbot1> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/455078443919474698/parthyn.JPG 20180609 18:46:22<+discordbot1> @zookeeper ^ 20180609 18:48:28< zookeeper> it's, uh... i mean the south bank is indeed a little bit more aesthetically pleasing, but there's still the main bridge that makes no sense and the small bridge is simply weird, and the 2-hex stone fort looks completely random too. 20180609 18:49:50<+discordbot1> oh come on 20180609 18:49:54<+discordbot1> I made it a wooden bridge 20180609 18:50:01<+discordbot1> you said it made no sense as a stone bridge 20180609 18:50:12< zookeeper> yes, and what else i said makes no sense about it? 20180609 18:50:23<+discordbot1> I dunno 20180609 18:50:27< zookeeper> ^ 20180609 18:50:40<+discordbot1> I think it makes perfect sense for a to have a bridge over a river 20180609 18:51:23<+discordbot1> town 20180609 18:51:36< zookeeper> it was the part about it making no sense to build a bridge leading to nowhere but wilderness and orcs that regularly come to attack you 20180609 18:52:15<+discordbot1> it's supposed to be the main road north to the river 20180609 18:54:01< zookeeper> what main road? it's a frontier town, what are they gonna do with a road leading north to nowhere? 20180609 18:54:27<+discordbot1> go to the river? 20180609 18:55:56< zookeeper> they need to build a bridge over a river so that they can cross the river in order to go to the river? that seems to literally be what you're saying and i don't know what else it could be 20180609 18:56:24<+discordbot1> wait, is this supposed to be on the Great River? 20180609 18:56:46< zookeeper> well that sure has always been my assumption 20180609 18:57:18< zookeeper> ah, you assume the great river is a short distance to the north? 20180609 18:57:36<+discordbot1> yes 20180609 18:59:07<+discordbot1> oh, it is on the river 20180609 18:59:09<+discordbot1> the map says so 20180609 18:59:14<+discordbot1> nevermind 20180609 18:59:19<+discordbot1> 😦 20180609 19:00:42< zookeeper> it's clearly a major river (wide and deep, only one crossing anywhere nearby), so i think it makes perfect sense as the great river instead of some minor tributary a few miles off. 20180609 19:01:43<+discordbot1> but this river isn't very wide in my map 😦 20180609 19:01:46<+discordbot1> and there's a ford 20180609 19:02:25< zookeeper> as wide as on the old map, and the ford _is_ the only crossing anywhere nearby, the story is pretty clear on that 20180609 19:03:07<+discordbot1> well if it's the only crossing it makes sense to build a bridge 20180609 19:03:21-!- irker038 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 19:03:21< irker038> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Jyrki Vesterinen 244384218b Fix build with Visual Studio 2013 AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180609 19:04:33< zookeeper> why? in this case you'd be building a bridge that doesn't lead anywhere except wilderness and mainly makes it easier for orcs to attack you. 20180609 19:04:44<+discordbot1> eh 20180609 19:04:47<+discordbot1> i suppose 20180609 19:05:24<+discordbot1> maybe it's a trap bridge that has spikes under it 20180609 19:05:28<+discordbot1> celticminstrel: Haven't push the fix for the music bug yet? 20180609 19:07:06<+discordbot1> (Release tagging in 5 hours, people) 20180609 19:07:43<+discordbot1> I'd like to see that fix pushed since it already exists. :\ 20180609 19:08:24< zookeeper> oh, hey, release. i almost forgot. well, i better go take my afk'ing immediately then so that i'll still have plenty of time to do stuff... 20180609 19:08:55<+discordbot1> And I've scheduled 1.14.4 20180609 19:09:09<+discordbot1> I thought I wouldn't need to, but I realized there's still some stuff I want to get in 20180609 19:09:12<+discordbot1> namely: 20180609 19:10:08<+discordbot1> * Hotkeys * New filtering options in the lobby (new string needed) * Advanced pref for the PRNG option (new string needed) * Merging the campaign and scenario tabs in Statistics (new string needed) 20180609 19:15:50-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e36341e.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 19:16:05< gfgtdf> when will 1.14.3 be tagged ? 20180609 19:17:09<+discordbot1> Did you see Vultraz's message less than a screenful above? 20180609 19:18:35< gfgtdf> no i just logged in 20180609 19:20:05< octalot> you can read the irclogs without logging in 20180609 19:27:03<+discordbot1> 4.5 hours 20180609 19:29:27< gfgtdf> thx (i already looked it up in the logs now though) 20180609 19:33:49< irker038> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:1.14 69f026fd656a / src/ (10 files in 5 dirs): fix issues caused by empty save id https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/69f026fd656a7f15070e544390a6ae7565fe7d39 20180609 19:33:51< irker038> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:1.14 c9b713f47e57 / src/replay.cpp: fix teamchat not marked #3119 https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c9b713f47e57ad2654ca71af95405a40c0462f77 20180609 19:43:45<+discordbot1> gfgtdf: forward-port 20180609 19:46:11-!- Oebele [~quassel@185-11-201-31.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 19:47:05< gfgtdf> ye 20180609 19:47:19-!- celmin|away is now known as celticminstrel 20180609 19:48:44< celticminstrel> @shadowm What about a music bug? Didn't someone else fix one recently? Possibly @jyrkive? 20180609 19:48:54<+discordbot1> The one I assigned to you. 20180609 19:48:57<+discordbot1> Ugh. 20180609 19:49:04<+discordbot1> You can look it up, I'm busy for the next 3 hours. 20180609 19:49:24<+discordbot1> celmin: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/3194 20180609 19:49:32< celticminstrel> @Vultraz I agree with zookeeper, that should just be ford instead of a bridge IMO. 20180609 19:50:49< celticminstrel> Oh, I vaguely remember that one.+ 20180609 19:50:57<+discordbot1> >_> 20180609 19:52:12<+discordbot1> You came up with a fix the same night after 2 or 3 iterations. 20180609 19:52:22<+discordbot1> It's in the logs. 20180609 19:52:51<+discordbot1> I've mentioned the bug to you on occasion hoping that you'd remember to finalize and push the fix but clearly that didn't work. 20180609 19:53:09< celticminstrel> I don't even remember you mentioning between then and now... >_> 20180609 19:54:18<+discordbot1> You're even more forgetful than I 20180609 20:00:38-!- Oebele [~quassel@185-11-201-31.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180609 20:06:16-!- Oebele [~quassel@185-11-201-31.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 20:08:18-!- Oebele [~quassel@185-11-201-31.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180609 20:25:04< irker038> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 8fea48ab8531 / src/gui/dialogs/preferences_dialog.cpp: Preferences Dialog: cleaned up advanced prefs widget setup https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/8fea48ab8531815f49648ce872dda2d974d36a97 20180609 20:25:07< irker038> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master c79e1645c8f0 / src/ (10 files in 5 dirs): fix issues caused by empty save id https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c79e1645c8f04c8a7eaae8dcc1c717f9a6fae7d6 20180609 20:25:07<+discordbot1> gfgtdf: dealt with it 20180609 20:25:09< irker038> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 25840c8a4bdf / src/replay.cpp: fix teamchat not marked #3119 https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/25840c8a4bdfa1bd7b93069ba9fc2562eca39910 20180609 20:25:25< gfgtdf> ok thx. 20180609 20:31:46-!- ChipmunkV[m] [chipmunkvm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pnbntuplvlnxkacq] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 20:36:14< irker038> wesnoth: loonycyborg wesnoth:1.14 7e44a66e2f70 / / (366 files in 11 dirs): pot-update and regenerate doc files https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/7e44a66e2f70e80bfb4703348542964ed5a0a174 20180609 21:01:37-!- Kawa[m] [kawamatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fgxmapxhmjozuymp] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 21:01:37-!- madmax28 [madmax28ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qxederbyeczapcmn] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 21:12:12< zookeeper> eh. i have a simple engine tweak that i can't test since i can't compile atm... 20180609 21:17:32<+discordbot1> zookeeper, the tewak in DiD from your last commit would fit in the tutorial too, if one attacks from the watter 20180609 21:18:05< zookeeper> probably a bunch of other places, too 20180609 21:21:40-!- fabi [~fabi@i577BCD15.versanet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 21:21:40-!- fabi [~fabi@i577BCD15.versanet.de] has quit [Changing host] 20180609 21:21:40-!- fabi [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 21:33:45< celticminstrel> @Vultraz - Looks like you forgot to forward-port bf18a42 20180609 21:34:03<+discordbot1> What commit ? 20180609 21:34:12< celticminstrel> Credits shuffle 20180609 21:34:22<+discordbot1> I see 20180609 21:35:22-!- fabi [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180609 21:35:36<+discordbot1> thaks for catching that 20180609 21:35:50< irker038> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master c8fc88454bdd / data/core/about.cfg: Shuffled a few credits entries around https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c8fc88454bddbfb03b7da9f9007dcb442cc27485 20180609 21:36:50<+discordbot1> @zookeeper why not? 20180609 21:39:37< zookeeper> i don't know 20180609 21:39:46<+discordbot1> is there some error? 20180609 21:40:11< zookeeper> yes 20180609 21:40:20<+discordbot1> and the error is... 20180609 21:43:13< zookeeper> only if you promise to not start telling me things to do or asking more questions, because i don't want to right now 20180609 21:44:19<+discordbot1> so you don't want it fixed... 20180609 21:44:25<+discordbot1> whatever 20180609 22:11:16-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 22:31:10-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180609 22:31:15<+discordbot1> celticminstrel: Okay, I'm back. Will you be able to push the fix before 00:01 UTC? 20180609 22:34:22<+discordbot1> I may not be around because we've got a storm incoming right now and I may lose power so if you need me to do the fix for you I'd appreciate to know asap. 20180609 22:35:47< celticminstrel> Can you do it for me? 20180609 22:38:05<+discordbot1> How are quotation marks in prose done? 20180609 22:38:24<+discordbot1> β€œ ” 20180609 22:38:42<+discordbot1> U+201C and U+201D. 20180609 22:38:53<+discordbot1> Then the new goblin translation needs pofixing 20180609 22:39:01<+discordbot1> Translation? 20180609 22:39:05<+discordbot1> You mean the race description? 20180609 22:39:13<+discordbot1> yes, not the translation 20180609 22:39:26<+discordbot1> Ugh. 20180609 22:39:32<+discordbot1> Great timing. 20180609 22:40:09<+discordbot1> It's not the only one. I'll deal with it after the release. 20180609 22:40:32<+discordbot1> No-one's going to die from a few non-conforming bits of typography. 20180609 22:41:19<+discordbot1> Whereas I'm trying to get a last minute fix in that should've been there over a week ago while it's perfectly possible that I'll lose power for hours. 20180609 22:48:47-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180609 22:53:12< octalot> How do we translate "Save random seed" for our non-programmer-language speaking users? 20180609 22:54:15< irker038> wesnoth: Iris Morelle wesnoth:1.14 a2963dcdbc64 / changelog.md data/lua/wml-tags.lua: Fix Lua errors when failing to set a music track on an empty playlist https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/a2963dcdbc64081156788156831e026a2c51a831 20180609 22:55:12< irker038> wesnoth: Iris Morelle wesnoth:master 5871557dbfe4 / changelog.md data/lua/wml-tags.lua: Fix Lua errors when failing to set a music track on an empty playlist https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/5871557dbfe407ab454d9f55be6bc2a0fcad0434 20180609 22:55:25< zookeeper> octalot, what is the primary purpose of that feature, anyway? 20180609 22:55:26<+discordbot1> octalot: You'll probably need to look it up. 20180609 22:55:37<+discordbot1> Ugh, we've talked about this a million times. 20180609 22:55:51< zookeeper> yeah, probably. :] 20180609 22:55:51<+discordbot1> It just makes it so the random seed is deterministic and doesn't change if you reload a save. 20180609 22:55:58< octalot> okay, sorry for restarting a flamewar 20180609 22:56:03<+discordbot1> It's not a flamewar. 20180609 22:56:31<+discordbot1> It's just a thing we've discussed to death and very loudly, so it's strange that one of the most active devs never noticed it. 20180609 22:56:47< octalot> eh, I'm not an active dev 20180609 22:57:11< zookeeper> i know what the feature does 20180609 22:57:25<+discordbot1> I meant zookeeper. 20180609 22:57:34<+discordbot1> Okay, you know what the feature does. 20180609 22:57:40<+discordbot1> Therefore you know its purpose. 20180609 22:58:32< zookeeper> and you also know that's not what i meant by purpose 20180609 22:59:20<+discordbot1> So you actually missed the whole debate about it? 20180609 22:59:36<+discordbot1> Like I said, gfgtdf sold it to me as a debugging aid. 20180609 23:00:01<+discordbot1> I actually wanted to revert it back in the day (1.13.1?) but I got preoccupied with other things. 20180609 23:00:25<+discordbot1> Or not revert it, hide it behind -d. 20180609 23:01:21<+discordbot1> Anyway if an AAA game like Civ V can have a similar feature (or rather the opposite of it) then why not us. 20180609 23:02:06<+discordbot1> So that's why I sold it as a half-hearted attempt at implementing a savescumming deterrent, in the 1.14 announcement draft that ultimately vultraz didn't change much. 20180609 23:02:20< zookeeper> right, so sounds like it's safe to say no one wants to market it as a preventive measure for those who can't help but savelo... okay 20180609 23:02:36<+discordbot1> You... didn't read the announcement either I take it. 20180609 23:03:50< zookeeper> i don't remember the details of the debate or how many there have been, nor whether i've read the announcement or what it even looks like. i don't automatically remember everything i see and read. 20180609 23:03:54-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180609 23:04:21<+discordbot1> That's actually very sad, because the announcement used to be one of those things that would bring us together as a team to work on it. 20180609 23:04:55<+discordbot1> Not to mention Vultraz and I both were behind schedule and worked really hard to get it finished before the launch. 20180609 23:05:36< irker038> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Jyrki Vesterinen ea65af0328 Remove game_events::wml_event_pump::wml_ AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180609 23:07:44< zookeeper> if i read the draft(s) and found nothing to contribute, then i probably wouldn't remember at this point whether i read it or not. 20180609 23:10:35<+discordbot1> πŸ™„ 20180609 23:18:05<+discordbot1> πŸ˜‘ 20180609 23:21:28<+discordbot1> πŸ’” 20180609 23:25:12< irker038> wesnoth: Severin GlΓΆckner wesnoth:1.14 ad9c62037032 / / (6 files in 5 dirs): updated German translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ad9c620370322f951f92fb76659a787ddc55f189 20180609 23:25:46<+discordbot1> After the pot update :/ 20180609 23:25:47< zookeeper> @sevu, btw, the campaigns section in the changelog is supposed to be alphabetically sorted. 20180609 23:26:01<+discordbot1> I was going to say. 20180609 23:26:19<+discordbot1> Vultraz, it's really a terrible idea to assume people won't push translation updates n hours before the tag. 20180609 23:26:35<+discordbot1> when, then, should the pot update optimally be done? 20180609 23:27:13<+discordbot1> The translations were merged against the updated pots 20180609 23:27:29<+discordbot1> zookeeper, I keep it in mind 20180609 23:28:14<+discordbot1> I see 20180609 23:28:16<+discordbot1> alright 20180609 23:30:02< irker038> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:1.14 9e7f915ce9f7 / changelog.md: Updated changelog https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/9e7f915ce9f7d165effa32b31d6676261459d8d9 20180609 23:30:57<+discordbot1> @sevu That might be true, but the issue isn't the pots. 20180609 23:31:10<+discordbot1> The issue is that someone needs to rebuild the manpages and manual. 20180609 23:31:42<+discordbot1> Looks like you only changed the manpage catalogue, so I can handle that right now. 20180609 23:31:51<+discordbot1> Assuming no-one else has a surprise manpage update pending. 20180609 23:32:12< irker038> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:1.14 bfa8c951b9e9 / changelog.md src/filesystem_common.cpp: Fixed [scenario] map_file basically being unusable https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/bfa8c951b9e95dd41ed7839b28b23b8127c1c361 20180609 23:32:15< irker038> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:1.14 ada1ed36d87c / changelog.md: Few minor semantic changelog tweaks https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ada1ed36d87cbd3a9ee7b3a9cfc3f27832ae54f5 20180609 23:32:25<+discordbot1> (And bearing in mind I'm in the middle of a storm so if I cease to respond it means I lost power.) 20180609 23:33:02< irker038> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 42349651cb23 / changelog.md src/filesystem_common.cpp: Fixed [scenario] map_file basically being unusable https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/42349651cb23f372f6919997f3f72ce1a9fc7766 20180609 23:33:14<+discordbot1> I commited the compiled manpages as well 20180609 23:33:40<+discordbot1> (the ones generated by update-po4a) 20180609 23:33:49<+discordbot1> Oh. You can run update-po4a. 20180609 23:33:58<+discordbot1> That's a first. Cool, I don't need to do anything then, thanks. πŸ˜› 20180609 23:34:12<+discordbot1> I got used to most translation stuff by now 20180609 23:34:23<+discordbot1> thorough sevu is thorough 20180609 23:34:30<+discordbot1> Most people here regard update-po4a and update-pot as some kind of magic thing that requires mastery of the arcane magicks. 20180609 23:35:10<+discordbot1> 🎩 ✨ 20180609 23:37:00<+discordbot1> Sigh. 20180609 23:37:09<+discordbot1> I should've taken a look at the Spanish diff a couple of days ago. 20180609 23:37:39<+discordbot1> is there something wrong with it? 20180609 23:37:49<+discordbot1> Just a typo. 20180609 23:38:03<+discordbot1> It's in the manual too. 20180609 23:38:19<+discordbot1> I guess it's not important to be honest, it's the perfect excuse to deliver them a message. 20180609 23:38:23< zookeeper> bearing in mind, eh? 20180609 23:40:08<+discordbot1> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/455154158807285788/bearing_in_mind.png 20180609 23:40:39<+discordbot1> Sounds like you're learning vultraz's language. 20180609 23:40:43<+discordbot1> Good job. 20180609 23:41:00<+discordbot1> bearing in mind, for the next time I have to add sth there... or rather, the next time I do 20180609 23:41:15<+discordbot1> MEME πŸ‘ REVIEW πŸ‘ 20180609 23:41:21<+discordbot1> πŸ‘Œ 20180609 23:42:11< zookeeper> soon i'll be communicating solely in emoji and memes 20180609 23:43:40< irker038> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:1.14 b3d492b81e86 / / (5 files in 3 dirs): DiD S1/S6: new Parthyn maps https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/b3d492b81e869e73d970c0993ddcd47ec30a908c 20180609 23:44:10< irker038> wesnoth: Iris Morelle wesnoth:1.14 ede9e20640c7 / changelog.md: Move changelog entry around https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ede9e20640c770dac0a0f94716a764162cef4459 20180609 23:44:17< irker038> wesnoth: Iris Morelle wesnoth:master ce8bf3cfc3c9 / changelog.md: Move changelog entry around https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ce8bf3cfc3c9310d97da94d102256e498c9b6f1d 20180609 23:45:47< irker038> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master b6416b832929 / / (5 files in 3 dirs): DiD S1/S6: new Parthyn maps https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/b6416b832929a71e6611e1172a0f9e3796f505b5 20180609 23:46:54<+discordbot1> we should really stop stuffing everything from 1.14 into the master changelog and instead make the 1.15.0 entry two sections. One for changes from 1.14 and one for new entries 20180609 23:47:19<+discordbot1> You know that not all changes in 1.14 can exist in master, right? 20180609 23:48:08<+discordbot1> For example, if 1.14.2 introduces a regression that 1.14.3 fixes (if you need a concrete example, here's two words: negative hitpoints) but didn't make it to a development release. 20180609 23:48:59<+discordbot1> I'm not sure how that invalidates my point 20180609 23:49:15<+discordbot1> I want to make a distinction between changes that have already been in stable and those that are new in 1.15 20180609 23:49:19<+discordbot1> Okay, then here's an alternative angle. 20180609 23:49:22<+discordbot1> because right now it's impossible to tell 20180609 23:49:34<+discordbot1> What's your plan if you released 1.15.0 tonight, 1.15.1 tomorrow, and 1.14.3 after tomorrow? 20180609 23:49:40<+discordbot1> Where do the changelog entries for 1.14.3 go in master? 20180609 23:49:44<+discordbot1> In fact, I might propose we just copy the 1.14.x entries over to master in their own section 20180609 23:51:10<+discordbot1> ya know what, hell, let's do that. 20180609 23:51:43<+discordbot1> Can you please hold your horses for a moment? 20180609 23:51:54< zookeeper> @Vultraz, the escape signpost in S06 is, uh, just in the woods next to the mountains... 20180609 23:51:55<+discordbot1> Focus on 1.14.3, then you can do whatever you want with master. 20180609 23:52:17<+discordbot1> oh, did I forget to move that? 20180609 23:52:21< zookeeper> seeing you didn't change the coordinates for that signpost, i guess you're lucky it's not in deep water or something :p 20180609 23:52:48<+discordbot1> Did the geography change? 20180609 23:52:55< zookeeper> lots 20180609 23:53:03<+discordbot1> I was expecting it to just be a cosmetic update since we're so close to a release. :\ 20180609 23:53:35<+discordbot1> I've been sitting on this for months. 20180609 23:53:44<+discordbot1> And even those have the potential to break code FYI. 20180609 23:53:47<+discordbot1> I should know. 20180609 23:54:30<+discordbot1> @zookeeper 13,1 good? 20180609 23:54:59< zookeeper> oh, humm. the signpost _used_ to be in the woods? 20180609 23:55:26< zookeeper> how odd, there actually isn't much of a change 20180609 23:55:39<+discordbot1> still, it's in an awkward place now 20180609 23:56:06< zookeeper> well, yes, seeing how the orc camp has a road'ish thing 20180609 23:56:23<+discordbot1> so, 13,1 20180609 23:57:16< irker038> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:1.14 be7ecbba8515 / data/campaigns/Descent_Into_Darkness/scenarios/06_Return_to_Parthyn.cfg: DiD S6: shift the escape location slightly to account for the map redraw https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/be7ecbba8515868d4733885ef4206d22dad2aa1b 20180609 23:57:30<+discordbot1> i haven't actually playtested s6 with the new map. I did s1 though (with bridge) 20180609 23:57:57< irker038> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 500259a7c2aa / data/campaigns/Descent_Into_Darkness/scenarios/06_Return_to_Parthyn.cfg: DiD S6: shift the escape location slightly to account for the map redraw https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/500259a7c2aab1f296441e720ee057e068291a32 20180609 23:58:38<+discordbot1> @zookeeper I presume the most recent map edits suit you? 20180609 23:59:59< zookeeper> i'd do a few details slightly differently, but looks okay --- Log closed Sun Jun 10 00:00:03 2018