--- Log opened Tue Jun 12 00:00:06 2018 20180612 00:01:58-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 00:11:01-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180612 00:19:19-!- lilinitsy [~lilinitsy@75-168-126-214.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 00:34:14-!- sigurdfd [~SigurdFD@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 00:40:50-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180612 00:40:56-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 02:53:28-!- irker306 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20180612 03:07:55<+discordbot1> In general: If I have a sourcecode question, this is where I should bring it up, correct? 20180612 03:08:21<+discordbot1> Yeah. 20180612 03:08:58<+discordbot1> There's also Coder’s Corner and Developers’ Discussions on the forums, but you're more likely to get a quicker answer here. 20180612 03:09:24<+discordbot1> ...huh 20180612 03:09:32<+discordbot1> bah, forums. That means i have to check for updates :) 20180612 03:09:43<+discordbot1> It should be "Coders'", I think, actually 20180612 03:09:43<+discordbot1> you can ask here 20180612 03:10:12<+discordbot1> I think I'm close to figuring out my issue, just wanted to know in case I can't. Thanks. 20180612 03:10:17-!- lilinitsy is now known as demon_itsy 20180612 03:13:04<+discordbot1> also, welcome to Discord 😛 20180612 03:59:02-!- sigurdfd [~SigurdFD@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has quit [] 20180612 04:00:41-!- behalebabo [~behalebab@unaffiliated/behalebabo] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20180612 04:01:57-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20180612 04:02:27-!- behalebabo [~behalebab@unaffiliated/behalebabo] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 04:24:31-!- irker117 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 04:24:31< irker117> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Iris Morelle e636549497 pofix: Update with 1.14.3 -> 1.14.3a (ma AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180612 04:53:44-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 05:19:25-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Converse confortabelmente. En calquera parte.] 20180612 05:35:23-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 05:36:09<+discordbot1> @shadowm oh? Few contributors nowadays or low steam adoption? 20180612 05:37:06<+discordbot1> I assume this is about my answer about the beta channel last night. 20180612 05:37:12<+discordbot1> Yessir 20180612 05:37:27<+discordbot1> It's a bit more complicated than that. 20180612 05:37:51<+discordbot1> master has been in an unreleasable state since some time before 1.14.0 was released because of a half-baked change. 20180612 05:38:38<+discordbot1> I guess you could say it's partially lack of people, but I think more importantly it's lack of time and technical expertise in an area that absolutely requires both (the display engine) in order to be rewritten from scratch. 20180612 05:39:12<+discordbot1> I think Vultraz has been making some decent progress in a private branch though. 20180612 05:40:56<+discordbot1> Oof 20180612 05:41:33<+discordbot1> I have always been tempted to pick up c++ literally just for wesnoth but have never been able to justify the time 😦 20180612 05:44:51-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Converse confortabelmente. En calquera parte.] 20180612 05:47:37-!- demon_itsy [~lilinitsy@75-168-126-214.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180612 06:02:07-!- gallaecio [~quassel@198.red-81-41-144.staticip.rima-tde.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 06:32:22-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 06:40:38<+discordbot1> Can anyone else try reproduce this ^^ ? 20180612 06:43:45<+discordbot1> I can try to reproduce it in the evening (about ten hours from now). 20180612 06:44:02<+discordbot1> It may be related to damage prediction that AI invokes. 20180612 06:46:29<+discordbot1> Last time there was a compiler-specific crash like it, it turned out that GCC somehow rounded zero to a slightly negative value: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/2342#issuecomment-355764464 20180612 07:23:18-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 07:37:08< irker117> wesnoth: Iris Morelle wesnoth:1.14 844b2d67ed93 / utils/pofix.py: pofix: Update with 1.14.3 -> 1.14.3a (macOS) rules for the website https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/844b2d67ed939022dcb312cb2e0a29aaffd583b5 20180612 07:40:25< irker117> wesnoth: Iris Morelle wesnoth:master d05de7ced84f / doc/man/wesnoth.6: doc/wesnoth(6): 'none' is a keyword in the --log- description https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/d05de7ced84fc2d8fcb4c3ec3dc8d49d939886ef 20180612 07:40:31< irker117> wesnoth: Iris Morelle wesnoth:1.14 b5eb6c43c347 / doc/man/wesnoth.6: doc/wesnoth(6): 'none' is a keyword in the --log- description https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/b5eb6c43c34793444f5657a0dcb4696d3b275a72 20180612 07:45:26-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180612 08:25:47<+discordbot1> That feeling when I actually stumble upon a bug in SDL_mixer. 20180612 08:27:24<+discordbot1> Which I'm unsure how to fix, because the way the code and accompanying comment are phrased makes it seem like the bug is a feature. 20180612 08:28:19<+discordbot1> So we have sound::reposition_sound(), which is used to set the distance of sound sources and possibly stop their channels if they're supposed to go silent. 20180612 08:29:25<+discordbot1> When they aren't already muted (i.e. sound effects in Preferences aren't muted and no-one's set sound effects volume to 0 using WML), the game calls Mix_FadeOutChannel(ch, 100) on the sound source's channel to fade it out for 100 ms. 20180612 08:29:54<+discordbot1> This is a non-blocking operation and SDL_mixer handles the fade out at a later point. 20180612 08:30:01<+discordbot1> Internally, 20180612 08:30:47<+discordbot1> Mix_FadeOutChannel() sets the original channel's volume to be restored at the end of the operation only if the channel isn't going to be faded out. 20180612 08:31:01<+discordbot1> Except it always is going to be faded out. 20180612 08:31:07<+discordbot1> c mix_channel[which].fading = MIX_FADING_OUT; mix_channel[which].fade_length = (Uint32)ms; mix_channel[which].ticks_fade = SDL_GetTicks(); /* only change fade_volume_reset if we're not fading. */ if (mix_channel[which].fading == MIX_NO_FADING) { mix_channel[which].fade_volume_reset = mix_channel[which].volume; } 20180612 08:31:27<+discordbot1> The if body is unreachable code. 20180612 08:32:04<+discordbot1> And the value of .fade_volume_reset is SDL_MIX_MAXVOLUME unless the channel was originally faded in (!!!). 20180612 08:33:15<+discordbot1> The easiest solution on our side is to just disable the 100 ms fade-out of sound sources (what's the point of that even), but I can't begin to understand what the fix in SDL_mixer would have to be given the alien logic at work in this code. 20180612 08:35:00<+discordbot1> Another potential fix on our side is to make sure to re-set the intended volume for a sound source channel before using it, I reckon we're only doing this during sound channel creation (i.e. sound init time) and when the volume set function is called. 20180612 08:35:46<+discordbot1> Not sure if that may result in popping artifacts under some circumstances though. 20180612 08:37:25<+discordbot1> Also, no, we can't set the distance to 255. The SDL_mixer documentation says "a distance of 255 does not guarantee silence". 20180612 08:37:38<+discordbot1> 🤔 20180612 08:41:46<+discordbot1> The latest version from Mercurial continues to have the same incomprehensible logic. 20180612 08:43:27<+discordbot1> https://hg.libsdl.org/SDL_mixer/rev/d842a759e68a 20180612 08:43:43<+discordbot1> This is how it came to be. 20180612 08:44:26<+discordbot1> It looks as illogical back then as it is now since the new if was already dead code (and there's a random assignment order change for no obvious reason). 20180612 08:45:15<+discordbot1> It has been almost nine years. Almost certainly the author no longer has any idea what he was thinking, either. 20180612 08:46:16<+discordbot1> I reckon I'll just have to file a bug with a minimal test case and no patch. 20180612 08:46:38<+discordbot1> And disable the 100ms sound source fade out in our side since it shouldn't be relevant for anything. 20180612 08:47:04<+discordbot1> Someone would have to be really into this stuff to notice a 100ms fade-out. 20180612 08:48:28<+discordbot1> On the other hand... 20180612 08:50:03<+discordbot1> That tiny fade out was introduced just as part of the overall sound source fade-out-over-distance feature: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/2aa98fbccc50405143ce1551b1eb123bff8a5282 20180612 08:53:41<+discordbot1> It seems like my alternative of setting the volume upon sound source set-up isn't a good idea because the code is a bit general and accounts for code paths that want to fade in other channels. 20180612 08:55:44<+discordbot1> Okay, I think I'll just go with the simpler option and halt the channel without fading out, but I'll want to test it later more thoroughly. 20180612 08:59:16<+discordbot1> Also, the fact that it's been 9 years and no-one has come across this and reported it only reinforces my feeling that we should look into ditching it in favour of OpenAL or something. 20180612 09:00:49<+discordbot1> Positional sound sources and music fading are really the only non-trivial features we use, so how card can it be? I might take a look at it when I stop being busy with my campaigns. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 20180612 09:01:34<+discordbot1> And resampling, which we didn't use before but got it for free with the SDL 2.0 transition. 20180612 09:01:52<+discordbot1> (A keen ear might notice that some of our legacy sounds like the horse canter do not sound the same as before.) 20180612 09:12:20-!- oldlaptop [~quassel@45.63.78.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20180612 09:13:46-!- oldlaptop [~quassel@45.63.78.126] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 09:44:27< wedge009> A fade-out of a third of a second is noticeable. I suppose a tenth of a second is a lot shorter than that. Also, where does Wesnoth use positional audio? 20180612 09:44:48<+discordbot1> Nowhere in mainline outside the test scenario. 20180612 09:45:37<+discordbot1> But you too can experience the joy of sound sources if you download IftU from the 1.14 add-ons server and play all the way to the third scenario! Available today! (Offer valid while supplies last. Batteries not included.) 20180612 10:40:37-!- irker117 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20180612 10:44:16-!- stevendale [~stevendal@unaffiliated/stevendale] has left #wesnoth-dev ["Leaving"] 20180612 10:49:39< zookeeper> funny. in the beginning-of-scenario save in https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/3237 there's an iron mauler who has accumulated 21 misc/arcane-icon.png's in his overlays=, because he has the holy amulet and, i theorize, the overlay [effect] presumably gets re-applied on unit rebuilds while overlays= is actually specifically getting retained. 20180612 11:22:30-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180612 11:22:36-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 12:02:22-!- Choicerer [~bodhidhar@185.9.19.107] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 12:03:29< Choicerer> Hi guys, what do you think about allowing all users in MP to check all the nicknames a player has used, without necessarily revealing their IP? 20180612 12:04:20< Choicerer> Why are only admins allowed to check that? 20180612 12:05:21< Choicerer> That is moderators 20180612 12:13:54< Soliton> admins or moderators cannot check that either. they can merely guess based on used IPs. 20180612 12:17:14<+discordbot1> https://itunes.apple.com/de/app/age-of-war-empires-order-rise/id1190027085 nice logo they have.... @doofus-01, I think you wrote some time ago that the board takes down such things? (I'm not sure to whom I should point that link) originally brought up here https://r.wesnoth.org/p629807 20180612 12:30:22< Choicerer> that's just what I mean 20180612 12:30:27< Choicerer> the /q clone command 20180612 12:31:11< Choicerer> so tying nicknames to IPs 20180612 12:31:40<+discordbot1> IPs are not unique to a nick. 20180612 12:31:52< Choicerer> I know 20180612 12:32:06< Choicerer> But you guys still haven't answered my question... 20180612 12:32:32< Choicerer> I'm curious about the rationale behind letting the mods check that, but not regular users 20180612 12:33:39< Choicerer> I can think of some other games that will allow anyone to check what other nicknames a particular player has used 20180612 12:33:57< Soliton> because they're allowed to see IPs etc. 20180612 12:34:16< zookeeper> @sevu, you didn't test https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/1e7c25a13 i guess? :| according to my testing it's the cause of https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/3237 20180612 12:34:17< Soliton> as mentioned we do not have that information. 20180612 12:34:40< Choicerer> Uh yes, you do. 20180612 12:34:50< Soliton> the only way is going by IP and it seems it's already clear to you we're not going to reveal those to everyone. 20180612 12:35:02< Choicerer> Ah, so my original question. 20180612 12:35:08< Soliton> ok then, patches welcome. 20180612 12:35:12< Choicerer> says without necessarily revealing their IP 20180612 12:35:19< Choicerer> As some other games do. 20180612 12:35:47< Soliton> we're not going to do automated guessing and present the result as fact. 20180612 12:35:55< Choicerer> yet you already are doing that 20180612 12:36:02< Choicerer> with the /query command 20180612 12:36:14< Choicerer> q clone 20180612 12:36:16< Soliton> you may want to elaborate on that. 20180612 12:36:26< Choicerer> Well, perhaps you don't know about the cmmand? 20180612 12:36:34< Soliton> i've implemented it. 20180612 12:36:41< Choicerer> well then? 20180612 12:36:51< Choicerer> if a user logs in with a particular IP 20180612 12:37:03< Choicerer> and then next day another nickname logs in with the same IP 20180612 12:37:23< Soliton> that has nothing to do with the clone command. 20180612 12:37:26< Choicerer> you know with certainty it's the same user. and as far as I know, that command gives you 20180612 12:37:30< Choicerer> exactly that info 20180612 12:37:40< Ravana_> clones is only about currently online 20180612 12:37:45< zookeeper> no, i don't think we want literally anyone to be able to identify everyone else's alt accounts. assuming it was reliably doable in the first place. 20180612 12:38:07< Choicerer> but are you or are you not allowing mods to do this already? 20180612 12:38:13< Choicerer> cause i'm fairly sure you are 20180612 12:38:27< Soliton> not in any automated way. 20180612 12:38:27<+discordbot1> I just said that IPs aren't unique to a person. So no, you don't know with certainty it's the same user. 20180612 12:38:45< Choicerer> ah, yeah but they are over some time 20180612 12:38:59< Soliton> not even that. 20180612 12:39:03< Choicerer> short time, before 20180612 12:39:11< Soliton> several people can have the same IP at the same time. 20180612 12:39:16< Choicerer> really? 20180612 12:39:26<+discordbot1> there can be also multiple perople with the same IP, such as two brothers 20180612 12:39:40< Soliton> if they're all behind the same nat, sure. 20180612 12:40:13< Choicerer> how come? 20180612 12:40:14< Choicerer> yes but that's bedises the point! 20180612 12:40:14< Choicerer> we're talking about one internet user, identified by the unique ip 20180612 12:40:14< Choicerer> we're not interested if some other person is using the same network 20180612 12:40:21< Choicerer> that's just totally besides the point 20180612 12:40:32<+discordbot1> zookeeper, I only tested the DiD commit. 20180612 12:40:44< Choicerer> that's the premise behind IP, a unique identifier 20180612 12:40:52<+discordbot1> it isn't unique 20180612 12:40:54< Soliton> read about nat then. 20180612 12:41:04< zookeeper> @sevu, i have no idea how/why it causes the problem, though. 20180612 12:42:36< zookeeper> looking at the WML code order, i guess it must somehow... make the units disappear? or something. 20180612 12:42:50 * zookeeper goes afk 20180612 12:45:48< Choicerer> hmm 20180612 12:46:30< Choicerer> okay, but I recall there being a command that showed all the nicknames associated with an ip 20180612 12:47:28< Choicerer> can you confirm that commands is available to mods? 20180612 12:47:32< Choicerer> *command 20180612 12:47:40< Soliton> yes. 20180612 12:47:56< Choicerer> Well then that was my original question. 20180612 12:48:14< Choicerer> If you are already allowing the mods to make use of that command, without going into techicalities 20180612 12:48:26< Choicerer> of whether that's exactly the same person or not, it's a nice guess 20180612 12:48:31< Soliton> you need to provide the IP. 20180612 12:48:33< Choicerer> that the mods already have access to. 20180612 12:48:38< Choicerer> ah... 20180612 12:49:05< Choicerer> ah so I guess a mod would look up a nickname's IP and then use it with the other command 20180612 12:49:35< Choicerer> ah well, anyway I know about some other games that allow everyone do that and I think it's nice 20180612 12:49:41< Choicerer> those two steps together, without revealing the ip 20180612 12:49:44< Soliton> and that also just works with clients seen in one session and has a limit on how many entries it remembers. 20180612 12:49:52< Choicerer> really? 20180612 12:50:00< Choicerer> oh. 20180612 12:50:00< Soliton> no, i'm kidding. 20180612 12:50:06< Choicerer> ? 20180612 12:50:14< Choicerer> uh... 20180612 12:50:14< Soliton> this is open source. you can just check if you like... 20180612 12:50:25< Choicerer> but why won't you just tell me? 20180612 12:50:30< Soliton> i never understand why people ask "really?". 20180612 12:50:33< Choicerer> is there something 20180612 12:50:39< Soliton> like how is that going to help anything. 20180612 12:50:45< Choicerer> :) 20180612 12:50:51< Soliton> if you do not trust me why would you if i repeat it. 20180612 12:50:53< Choicerer> I asked because I thought otherwise 20180612 12:50:56< Choicerer> I trust you 20180612 12:51:16< Choicerer> I thought otherwise, because I talked to Ravana about it at some point 20180612 12:51:26< Choicerer> so the really just meant I was surprised 20180612 12:51:52< Choicerer> because from what he told me, I assumed it wasn't session specific 20180612 12:52:08< Soliton> admins can check log files of past runs and try to figure out whatever but mods can't. 20180612 12:52:26< Choicerer> okay 20180612 12:52:44< Ravana_> being session specific is implementation detail, but yes, once I expected it to use old sessions too 20180612 12:54:33< Choicerer> yeah, the whole point behind my original question was that I like transparency :D and as I said in some other games everyone is able to check that, I guess across sessions, and I think it works nicely 20180612 12:54:48< Choicerer> Prevents trolling etc. 20180612 12:55:19< Soliton> perhaps they have a system that is not based on guessing because you can link accounts or whatever. 20180612 12:55:48< Choicerer> No, I remember tricking that system with a VPN 20180612 12:55:52< Choicerer> in OpenMW 20180612 12:55:53< Soliton> but just going by the IP is not reliable and you need some context to judge it correctly. 20180612 12:55:58< Choicerer> that's Open Morrowind 20180612 12:55:59< Ravana_> in one system I know, being able to see that is only for paying users 20180612 12:56:20< Choicerer> or I guess Morrowind Online actually 20180612 12:56:46< Soliton> so then you use that VPN once and you get linked to everyone else that used it and got the same IP as you. 20180612 12:56:59< Choicerer> yes, that's true... 20180612 12:57:09< Choicerer> still not many people use VPNs 20180612 12:57:28< Soliton> for how long? when should that be reset? not sure if that is really more transparent for the average gamer. 20180612 12:57:50< Choicerer> yeah hm. 20180612 12:57:57< Soliton> people also move or change provider etc. 20180612 12:58:01< Choicerer> Well, seeing as you guys now require 20180612 12:58:08< Choicerer> require e-mail registration 20180612 12:58:21< Choicerer> another idea is to allow everyone to see that 20180612 12:58:56< Soliton> wesnothd doesn't know that ask the forum admins. :-P 20180612 12:58:59< Choicerer> I dunno, I guess you're right there's a lot of problems involved, still mods have access to that command for some reason? 20180612 12:59:12< Choicerer> :) 20180612 12:59:36< Soliton> mods also have access to IPs and times people log on/off and can ask an admin to provide more info. 20180612 13:00:07< Soliton> so there is context to better judge what's all the same person. 20180612 13:00:10< Choicerer> well, so the idea behind it is it can give you a good guess of whether that's 20180612 13:00:29< Choicerer> hm. 20180612 13:01:28< Soliton> as zookeeper hinted at i also don't think we want to force people to reveal every account they have. if they want an independent account to be left alone or whatever that's fine with us. 20180612 13:02:07< Choicerer> okay, suppose they use that other account to cheat though? 20180612 13:02:38< Choicerer> like 2 accounts in the same game 20180612 13:02:44< Soliton> then they face whatever consequences their behaviour warrants. 20180612 13:03:00< Choicerer> yes, if the mods detect that... 20180612 13:03:03< Soliton> in the same game they'll have the same IP and the server tells you about that. 20180612 13:03:09< Choicerer> yeah but from what I know 20180612 13:03:20<+discordbot1> if the two accounts have in that moment the same IP you will be warned about it. (at least 1.12 did) 20180612 13:03:32< Choicerer> the warning will only show up on the 2nd person joining 20180612 13:03:38< Choicerer> i mean 2nd account 20180612 13:03:52< Choicerer> so if the account joins before others do, they won't be able to tell 20180612 13:04:15< Soliton> it will be announced at the start of the game and is thus also in the replay. 20180612 13:04:34< Choicerer> was that the case in 1.12, too? 20180612 13:08:27< Soliton> yes. 20180612 13:08:38< Soliton> if it is not the case in 1.14 that's a bug. 20180612 13:09:03< Choicerer> it probably is 20180612 13:09:41< Choicerer> again, i somehow thought in 1.12 it hadn't worked like that 20180612 13:09:43< Soliton> parts of the server have been rewritten so i'm not entirely sure but that is how i implemented it. 20180612 13:11:30< Choicerer> oh regular users still have access to info about when a user has logged in 20180612 13:11:51< Choicerer> is there really that much more context involved? i wonder. 20180612 13:11:55< Soliton> if they're online at the time, sure. 20180612 13:12:16< Choicerer> the info command? 20180612 13:13:06< Soliton> could be, we do save that last login time in the DB afair. 20180612 13:13:43< Soliton> you still have no idea what IP they used. 20180612 13:13:54< Soliton> so not sure where you're going with this. 20180612 13:15:34< Choicerer> well. I simply think giving everyone access to that one command, even if it's session specific, without revealing the person's ip (so i guess combining the two commands then), like some other games do, despite like you said there being issues such as NAT, would still in general give people a clearer picture 20180612 13:15:51< Choicerer> of whether somebody is trying to harass them from another account or whatnot 20180612 13:16:12< Choicerer> just less secrecy, more transparency, I would personally like that 20180612 13:18:31< Soliton> if you're harassed it doesn't matter what account from. you should report that either way. 20180612 13:18:52< Soliton> i guess i get what you mean though. 20180612 13:19:25< Choicerer> I can report it but I'd like to know who that person is as well. 20180612 13:19:54< Choicerer> or at least 20180612 13:20:06< Choicerer> well, be able to guess it with some certainty 20180612 13:21:49< Choicerer> Well, thanks for answering my questions, anyway. 20180612 13:22:38< Soliton> in principle it's more transparent because we give out more info. whether the average gamer is able to accurately process that info and make proper conclusions is a different question. it might as well have an adverse effect. 20180612 13:22:54< Choicerer> Hm 20180612 13:23:34< Soliton> in any case not something we'll likely change just like that. perhaps discuss it on the forum. 20180612 13:24:14< Soliton> the forum has the same issue even. i don't think anyone has brought this up so far though. 20180612 13:26:36<+discordbot1> That may be because in the forum everything is public and besides that probably every post is read by a mod at some point, while on the MP server most things are between a few people. 20180612 13:27:59< Soliton> sure, there is also not much of a competition aspect which often brings out the worst in people. 20180612 13:31:01<+discordbot1> I'm not sure giving access to all people ot that command would not violate GDPR (its definition of personal data is really wide and open) 20180612 13:31:02< Choicerer> so you mean it has already been brought up in regards to MP? 20180612 13:33:46<+discordbot1> just got aware that DSGVO and GDPR are the same thing ... 20180612 13:36:58< Choicerer> Thing is, you're already processing this data. 20180612 13:37:57< Choicerer> GDPR as far as I'm aware, has to do with data processing and user awaraness of that 20180612 13:37:59< Choicerer> consent etc 20180612 13:38:37< Choicerer> So since you're already storing all this data, you're already processing it, regardless of whether the regular user has access to it or not 20180612 13:39:07< Choicerer> IPs even, not possible other nicknames that might belong to a user ;) 20180612 13:49:32<+discordbot1> I see a Choicerer and ChoichereR in the Lobby - are this different accounts or is one a ghost? 20180612 13:50:36< Choicerer> I recently discovered you can log in with the same account on multiple clients if you just change the capitalisation of one letter 20180612 13:50:49<+discordbot1> GDPR restricts who can process the data 20180612 13:53:03< Choicerer> third party’ means a natural or legal person, public authority, agency or body other than the data subject, controller, processor and persons who, under the direct authority of the controller or processor, are authorised to process personal data 20180612 13:53:23< Choicerer> that's from their website :D 20180612 13:54:59< Choicerer> well i don't know, honestly I don't think anybody would worry about an open-source game, but I might be wrong? 20180612 14:02:06<+discordbot1> The open source game has a legal company getting profits from selling iOS app. But nevertheless, just because it is not likely people will report it, it doesn't mean Wesnoth should violate the law. 20180612 14:03:21< Choicerer> Certainly not, the question is would it be violating it 20180612 14:03:39< Choicerer> First of all, I don't suppose there's any agreement to accept at the moment 20180612 14:03:43< Choicerer> when you register 20180612 14:05:18< Choicerer> Second, if there was, access to other people's possible nicknames ;) might be something that the data controller authorizes people to access 20180612 14:06:02< Choicerer> I guess there's more worry about services such as WHOIS 20180612 14:06:11<+discordbot1> We don't need consent to get the information that's necessary for the basic operation of multiplayer. 20180612 14:06:18<+discordbot1> That includes IP addresses. 20180612 14:06:37< Choicerer> Under GDPR then? 20180612 14:07:08< Choicerer> When you are storing them? 20180612 14:07:35< Choicerer> What about registering on the forums? 20180612 14:14:07-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-akbrgngynivcsrwf] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 14:20:56-!- irker284 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 14:20:56< irker284> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Iris Morelle d05de7ced8 doc/wesnoth(6): 'none' is a keyword in t AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180612 14:24:08<+discordbot1> How do I restore my github fork to master? There must be a way to do it without deleting the whole thing and starting again. 20180612 14:52:26-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180612 14:53:51<+discordbot1> git checkout master 20180612 14:53:52<+discordbot1> git pull 20180612 15:03:27<+discordbot1> I thought it would create an additional commit in your branch, no? 20180612 15:07:04<+discordbot1> the first switches the branch, the second pulls changes from the default repository 20180612 15:07:18<+discordbot1> for the branch on which you are 20180612 15:07:57<+discordbot1> @UnwiseOwl ...uhm.. one thing I forgot.. what tells you 20180612 15:08:04<+discordbot1> git remote -v 20180612 15:08:30<+discordbot1> In my case it looks like github git@github.com:sevu/wesnoth.git (fetch) github git@github.com:sevu/wesnoth.git (push) upstream git@github.com:wesnoth/wesnoth.git (fetch) upstream git@github.com:wesnoth/wesnoth.git (push) 20180612 15:08:53<+discordbot1> you need your github fork and the maingithub repo 20180612 15:09:18<+discordbot1> hrmm 20180612 15:09:35<+discordbot1> listed there. you can pull with git pull upstream/master in case your fork is set as default 20180612 15:25:00< Choicerer> Yeah, git can be tricky for beginners. 20180612 15:25:31< Choicerer> I accidentally deleted my whole mod directory when trying to revert my commit to an earlier version because I got the commit message wrong. 20180612 15:26:30< Choicerer> Fortunately I'd uploaded it to github as well so I emailed support, and they restored it for me in a matter of minutes. 20180612 15:27:55< Choicerer> I mean erased it locally as well. I had no idea git can do that do your data 20180612 15:28:30< Choicerer> It was embarrassing :D 20180612 15:30:44-!- gallaecio [~quassel@198.red-81-41-144.staticip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180612 15:44:31-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180612 15:47:41<+discordbot1> I am utterly perplexed, but I don't think I can do any permanent damage, so I'll keep fiddling. 20180612 15:59:18-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 16:00:39-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 16:02:37< Choicerer> Just don't do hard resets :D 20180612 16:03:06< Choicerer> Or at least be very careful ;) 20180612 16:04:57-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-akbrgngynivcsrwf] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180612 16:08:48-!- Kawa[m] [kawamatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fgxmapxhmjozuymp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180612 16:08:49-!- ChipmunkV[m] [chipmunkvm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pnbntuplvlnxkacq] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180612 16:08:56-!- madmax28 [madmax28ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qxederbyeczapcmn] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 20180612 16:21:40-!- lilinitsy_ [~lilinitsy@75-168-126-214.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 16:29:17<+discordbot1> Hey, so I've been working on https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/2016 and I kind of have it working. Except for that lobby preference stuff. That part of the code is just too dense for me, heheh, I'm not sure how to add this option to the preferences section. Should I just put in a pull request with what I have, or does someone want to take a crack at that / help me through it? 20180612 16:30:31<+discordbot1> open a PR 20180612 16:35:12-!- ChipmunkV[m] [chipmunkvm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kceuvflxhbnnuiiq] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 16:35:14< irker284> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Iris Morelle b5eb6c43c3 doc/wesnoth(6): 'none' is a keyword in t AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180612 16:49:28-!- lilinitsy_ [~lilinitsy@75-168-126-214.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180612 16:51:18-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 17:05:50-!- madmax28 [madmax28ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-btknenrrnxhsrxsd] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 17:05:50-!- Kawa[m] [kawamatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fdpcskvvsdapiqsn] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 17:12:11-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 17:29:46-!- lilinitsy_ [~lilinitsy@75-168-126-214.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 18:01:34-!- sevu [~Shiki@p5485415C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 18:07:23< irker284> wesnoth/wesnoth:master newfrenchy83 7462cac099 Update abilities.cfg AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180612 18:10:33-!- Choicerer [~bodhidhar@185.9.19.107] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180612 18:52:07-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:756c:f02c:f312:3b62] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 19:15:03< irker284> wesnoth/wesnoth:master newfrenchy83 790eabf237 Update abilities.cfg AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180612 19:20:24< irker284> wesnoth: Severin Glöckner wesnoth:1.14 5171a8b0932c / po/ (wesnoth-anl/de.po wesnoth-lib/de.po wesnoth-units/de.po wesnoth/de.po): updated German translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/5171a8b0932c75469b2eecc1efe619b71612519e 20180612 19:21:16-!- sevu [~Shiki@p5485415C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20180612 19:26:37< zookeeper> @sevu so are you looking into it, or..? 20180612 19:34:37-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:756c:f02c:f312:3b62] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180612 19:40:12< zookeeper> i have no idea why, but indeed it's the [modify_unit] that just mysteriously makes a part of the units disappear. 20180612 19:42:55-!- Oebele [~quassel@185-11-201-31.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 19:46:47< zookeeper> ahh, i think i got it 20180612 19:55:22<+discordbot1> @Vultraz Are you people aware of this? (Screenshot at the end) https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=629807#p629807 20180612 20:02:49-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...] 20180612 20:03:15-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@p579FB6E5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 20:03:25-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@p579FB6E5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 20180612 20:03:25-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 20:07:25< irker284> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:1.14 354a6709f947 / changelog.md data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/scenarios/11_Captured.cfg: EI S11: Fixed missing prisoners (fixes #3237) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/354a6709f947e12d24c5b4cb864ccd09357540b0 20180612 20:07:29< zookeeper> @sevu ^ fixed 20180612 20:08:03< zookeeper> i implore anyone making even trivial-looking changes to that scenario to test their changes, because there's some kind of curse hanging over it. 20180612 20:14:42-!- gfgtdf [~gfgtdf@134.76.63.8] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 20:15:30<+discordbot1> Thank you zookeeper 20180612 20:16:21< zookeeper> @Landiss so, if you replace the scenario file with the fixed one and load from the beginning-of-scenario save, it should work 20180612 20:17:51< irker284> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master c9bb31d1cc91 / data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/scenarios/11_Captured.cfg: EI S11: Fixed missing prisoners (fixes #3237) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c9bb31d1cc9182a4450f29ae529416d2192ab4f9 20180612 20:19:03<+discordbot1> yeah, I'll try that later, most likely tomorrow 20180612 20:21:54< zookeeper> ok, great. looks like it works correctly now (again... sigh), but i wouldn't mind confirmation anyway. 20180612 20:34:03< zookeeper> @Vultraz just in case it's unclear, EI has a game-breaking issue (you lose all your recalls, and probably practically impossible to proceed) in 1.14.3 which i just fixed. 20180612 20:42:32<+discordbot1> @shadowm I saw it raised last night. Well handle it 20180612 20:45:59< zookeeper> a missing apostrophe, i hope? :p 20180612 20:46:28<+discordbot1> yes 20180612 20:49:28-!- Kawa[m] [kawamatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fdpcskvvsdapiqsn] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 20180612 20:49:37-!- madmax28 [madmax28ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-btknenrrnxhsrxsd] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180612 20:49:42-!- ChipmunkV[m] [chipmunkvm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kceuvflxhbnnuiiq] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180612 21:05:13-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-156-70-11.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 21:05:14< travis-ci> gfgtdf/wesnoth#1152 (1.14 - 9f06392 : gfgtdf): The build was canceled. 20180612 21:05:14< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth/builds/391455248 20180612 21:05:16-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-156-70-11.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] --- Log closed Tue Jun 12 21:07:12 2018 --- Log opened Tue Jun 12 21:07:16 2018 20180612 21:07:24-!- lobby [~wesnoth@wesnoth/bot/lobby] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 21:07:24-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: Wesnoth Developers Channel | >>> Want to help? Go here: https://r.wesnoth.org/t42911 (and thanks!) <<< | Discord Server: https://discord.gg/battleforwesnoth | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org 20180612 21:07:24-!- Topic set by shadowm [~iris@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] [Wed May 9 21:20:06 2018] 20180612 21:07:24[Users #wesnoth-dev] 20180612 21:07:24[+discordbot1 ] [ DDR ] [ heirecka ] [ loonycyborg ] [ Ravana_ ] [ vihta ] 20180612 21:07:24[ aeth ] [ DeFender1031 ] [ higgins ] [ matthiaskrgr] [ Rhonda ] [ vincent_c] 20180612 21:07:24[ AI0867 ] [ elias ] [ irker284 ] [ minzbonbon ] [ ShikadiQueen] [ wedge009 ] 20180612 21:07:24[ aidanhs2 ] [ EliDupree ] [ Ivanovic ] [ nore ] [ Soliton ] [ zookeeper] 20180612 21:07:24[ APic ] [ esr ] [ iwaim ] [ nurupo ] [ stikonas ] 20180612 21:07:24[ behalebabo ] [ galegosimpatico] [ janebot ] [ Oebele ] [ TC01 ] 20180612 21:07:24[ boucman ] [ gallaecio ] [ Jetrel_bot] [ oldlaptop ] [ TheJJ ] 20180612 21:07:24[ commavir ] [ Gambit ] [ lilinitsy_] [ Polsaker ] [ timotei_ ] 20180612 21:07:24[ crimson_penguin] [ gfgtdf ] [ lobby ] [ pydsigner ] [ valdar ] 20180612 21:07:24-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 49 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 48 normal] 20180612 21:07:24-!- Home page for #wesnoth-dev: https://www.wesnoth.org 20180612 21:07:47-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 05:28:41 2009 20180612 21:08:44-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth-dev was synced in 87 secs 20180612 21:09:15-!- ChipmunkV[m] [chipmunkvm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-oibsrltzlhqgiseu] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 21:16:22-!- Oebele [~quassel@185-11-201-31.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180612 21:49:09-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-156-70-11.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 21:49:10< travis-ci> gfgtdf/wesnoth#1154 (1.14 - dba6081 : gfgtdf): The build passed. 20180612 21:49:10< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth/builds/391463862 20180612 21:49:10-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-156-70-11.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180612 22:05:46-!- vn971 [~vasya@94.158.103.15] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 22:08:02-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180612 22:23:42-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180612 22:23:43< gfgtdf> so i want to make it possible for other plyers of a mp game to change their faction choice later, the ui for that is basicially to add the 'faction change' button to the sides that they control. i wonr whther i shoudl put space in there for the sides that that client doesnt control or not any opinions ? 20180612 22:23:48-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 22:25:14-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180612 22:50:29-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Converse confortabelmente. En calquera parte.] 20180612 23:00:37< vn971> gfgtdf: "structured" "column" view sounds good to me personally. May depend on how big the slot is though. 20180612 23:05:51< gfgtdf> vn971, this is what it looks currently https://i.imgur.com/qqcApNZ.png but i dont liek that the leaders imges are not aligned in a row on te other hand aligning them would put a space for other players sides 20180612 23:16:04-!- ChipmunkV[m] [chipmunkvm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-oibsrltzlhqgiseu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180612 23:17:16-!- discordbot2 [~discordbo@baldras.wesnoth.org] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 23:17:16-!- mode/#wesnoth-dev [+v discordbot2] by ChanServ 20180612 23:17:48-!- discordbot1 [~discordbo@baldras.wesnoth.org] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 20180612 23:18:13<+discordbot2> Why is there a delay before updating the user list on the right when selecting games in the lobby? 20180612 23:19:21-!- irker284 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20180612 23:25:02< vn971> gfgtdf: I'd personally prefer to align yes. 20180612 23:31:41-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 23:34:11-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-156-70-11.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180612 23:34:12< travis-ci> gfgtdf/wesnoth#1155 (mpwait_flg - 25c4c91 : gfgtdf): The build passed. 20180612 23:34:12< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth/builds/391494089 20180612 23:34:12-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-156-70-11.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180612 23:35:43-!- ChipmunkV[m] [chipmunkvm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rkktktbiafthhzrx] has joined #wesnoth-dev --- Log closed Wed Jun 13 00:00:15 2018