--- Log opened Mon Jun 04 00:00:51 2018 20180604 00:11:20-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180604 00:11:26-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 00:12:46-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180604 00:42:29-!- gfgt [~androirc@134.76.63.8] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 00:56:03<+discordbot5> aw 20180604 00:57:55<+discordbot5> I'll try 1.10 I guess. I think that's the version I played on last, and I don't care for the updates since then much. 20180604 00:58:38<+discordbot5> Although I might just mess around with some files on the 1.14 version to make it more how I'd like. It'd just be some graphics... 🤔 20180604 00:58:45< aeth> MP tends to be on whatever the latest stable is and only that. I'd assume that that's even more true now that Wesnoth is on Steam. 20180604 00:59:09-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p2E5111C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.] 20180604 00:59:12<+discordbot5> ok 20180604 00:59:21<+discordbot5> iPhone users use 1.10 20180604 00:59:32<+discordbot5> o, interesting 20180604 00:59:34< aeth> I think the last time there was a good split in MP was 1.2 and 1.3 because 1.3 really opened a lot of possibilities in UMC with custom menus/menu_items and did some fairly dramatic rebalancing with arcane replacing holy 20180604 00:59:49< aeth> That was probably more than 10 years ago at this point. 20180604 01:14:09<+discordbot5> If it matters, you can set the classic theme in 1.14, which looks like 1.10 20180604 01:18:39< celticminstrel> Though that'll be removed in 1.16... 20180604 01:18:50< celticminstrel> (Or rather, the current theme would become the classic theme...) 20180604 01:19:15< celticminstrel> It also only affects in-game theme, not the general UI. 20180604 01:19:59< celticminstrel> (Someone should try their hand at reskinning the general UI IMO, it would be a good test of the robustness of all the preset dialogs to reskinning. I'm guessing most of them aren't too robust.) 20180604 01:20:56< celticminstrel> (Mind you, a huge change could be produced by merely replacing all the widget definitions, without even redesigning the actual dialogs...) 20180604 01:42:05-!- HeyCitizen [~HeyCitize@sttrpq3809w-lp130-03-67-68-202-204.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.0 - https://znc.in] 20180604 01:44:13-!- HeyCitizen [HeyCitizen@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/heycitizen] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 01:52:21<+discordbot5> @@Touhou Project　東方プロジェクト what difficulty you beat ATOTB on? 20180604 01:52:50-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20180604 02:01:42<+discordbot5> Easiest obviously 20180604 02:01:57< celticminstrel> Bronze laurel! 20180604 02:02:01<+discordbot5> I tried a bit out of Heir to the Throne 20180604 02:02:21< celticminstrel> I doubt I'll ever get a non-bronze laurel TBH (except in my own campaign). 20180604 02:03:23<+discordbot5> The tediousness in figuring out out what each unit does uniquely (i.e. what makes orc wolf riders different than elvish riders) and the general similarity between different units/lack of unit diversity/options turned me off 20180604 02:03:52<+discordbot5> Eh I like it 20180604 02:04:04<+discordbot5> I haven't beaten any campaigns though 20180604 02:04:26<+discordbot5> Just read the unit descriptions and you'll learn a lot 20180604 02:04:43<+discordbot5> The game manual is also 💯 20180604 02:05:00<+discordbot5> press d with your cursor over a unit and you'll get a handy description of everything they can do 20180604 02:07:59< celticminstrel> Well you can hover over a unit and press D (or right-click and choose "unit description"). 20180604 02:08:16< celticminstrel> Which gives you basically all the info you'd need, I think? And most of that can also be seen on the sidebar somehow, I think. 20180604 02:08:45< celticminstrel> It seems weird that you'd be complaining about lack of unit diversity TBH? 20180604 02:09:57<+discordbot5> It would be awesome if there were texture packs like in Minecraft, if you're familiar with that, so that all the graphics could be changed with just plopping in a file and selecting that option. 20180604 02:10:58<+discordbot5> usually you have one unit filling a role, either the orc wolf rider (actually goblin) or the elvish rider – so it doesn't matter too much, as you chose the one you have 20180604 02:11:17<+discordbot5> Game is open source, anything is possible 20180604 02:11:22<+discordbot5> Game is open source, anything is possible 20180604 02:12:41<+discordbot5> I think the new add-on type "core" could achieve that 20180604 02:13:19<+discordbot5> oo, ok. There is a possibility then. 20180604 02:13:23< celticminstrel> Yeah I guess it might be able to... 20180604 02:13:47< celticminstrel> If it includes most of the core _main.cfg but sets different binary paths, it might work? 20180604 02:13:57< celticminstrel> Could get a little tricky if you want to override the campaigns too. 20180604 02:14:13< celticminstrel> In theory, a "core" would be able to make an entirely new game with the same engine, I believe. 20180604 02:16:22< celticminstrel> I'm not sure if the feature is fully-functional yet though. 20180604 02:16:55< celticminstrel> You can also make themes which change the entire layout of the in-game HUD. 20180604 02:17:13< celticminstrel> (Though the ThemeWML is sorta deprecated.) 20180604 03:38:23-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 04:28:12-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20180604 04:29:48-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 04:39:08-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: KABOOM! It seems that I have exploded. Please wait while I reinstall the universe.] 20180604 04:46:58-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 05:31:16-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Converse confortabelmente. En calquera parte.] 20180604 06:10:30-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 06:25:18-!- gallaecio [~quassel@143.red-81-32-24.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 06:47:50-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180604 06:48:08-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 07:03:53<+discordbot5> I have actually created a new theme with ThemeWML just a couple days ago, it's still usable, even if it's planned to go away in 1.16 20180604 07:07:06<+discordbot5> I have only increased font sizes, the right side panel width, moved a couple things around and added buttons to cycle units (quite useful for when I can only use mouse) and it was all quite easy to do. However, for reasons unknown to me, a lot, and I really mean a lot, of UI details are hardcoded. For example, the font coloring for various values, how the tooltips are displayed and even how the unit attacks are listed. 20180604 07:08:10<+discordbot5> if anyone's interested, here's the theme I created, compared to the default one (I normally use it in higher definition, lowered it to not make screenshots huge): 20180604 07:08:22<+discordbot5> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/453092617845211137/default_theme.PNG 20180604 07:08:24<+discordbot5> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/453092636736094218/new_theme.PNG 20180604 07:11:51<+discordbot5> also, I think there was supposed to be some kind of slider below minimap (for zooming?) in the original theme, but it seems to be not working 20180604 07:21:48-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 07:22:09-!- zookeeper_ [~lmsnie@192.130.252.48] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 07:26:32-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180604 07:27:44-!- zookeeper_ is now known as zookeeper 20180604 07:27:46-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@192.130.252.48] has quit [Changing host] 20180604 07:27:46-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 08:29:45-!- ibispi [~quassel@188.246.34.98] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 08:48:42-!- gfgt [~androirc@134.76.63.8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180604 08:48:54-!- gfgt [~androirc@2001:638:60e:834:e4b2:fa1c:d31e:ce0a] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 08:55:15-!- gfgt [~androirc@2001:638:60e:834:e4b2:fa1c:d31e:ce0a] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20180604 09:09:02<+discordbot5> It was removed 20180604 09:16:25<+discordbot5> Ah, I see. The default theme still has it in the theme code, that's why I thought it was not intended. 20180604 09:22:43-!- ibispi [~quassel@188.246.34.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180604 09:44:22-!- gfg [~androirc@134.76.63.8] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 10:01:23-!- gfg [~androirc@134.76.63.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180604 10:01:39-!- gfg [~androirc@134.76.63.8] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 10:05:35-!- gfgtdf [~gfgtdf@134.76.63.8] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 10:06:13< gfgtdf> about half of the people in current 1.14 wenosthd is using 1.14.2 it seems. 20180604 10:06:32< gfgtdf> susprisingly we also have a 1.14.1+dev user. 20180604 10:07:43< gfgtdf> ok about 2/3 is using wesnoth 1.14.2 now. 20180604 10:09:59<+discordbot5> with Steam much more users are going to have the newest stable version compared to the past 20180604 10:13:15< gfgtdf> oh i posted in the wrong channel 20180604 10:46:44-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180604 10:57:38-!- gfgt [~androirc@tmo-107-125.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 11:01:52-!- gfg [~androirc@134.76.63.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180604 11:26:22-!- gfgt [~androirc@tmo-107-125.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180604 11:29:03-!- gfgt [~androirc@tmo-107-125.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 11:29:05-!- gfgt [~androirc@tmo-107-125.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20180604 11:42:27-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 11:58:40-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180604 12:15:48-!- gfg [~androirc@ersc144.goemobile.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 12:42:11-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180604 12:42:17-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 12:47:19-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180604 12:47:25-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 13:01:54<+discordbot5> you widened the side bar... great idea... there are al lot of problems with cut of text or alike in the default one 20180604 13:05:48-!- ibispi [~quassel@188.246.34.98] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 13:18:25<+discordbot5> yes, even more so in non-English translations, that's why I did it 20180604 14:10:22<+discordbot5> I think this feature might be a bug 20180604 14:10:36<+discordbot5> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/453198876472508432/unknown.png 20180604 14:10:39<+discordbot5> Rome "this game" has joined 20180604 14:25:33<+discordbot5> has been 20180604 14:29:40-!- gfgt [~androirc@ersc137.goemobile.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 14:30:02-!- gfg [~androirc@ersc144.goemobile.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180604 14:31:51<+discordbot5> Do you get XP for each hit? 20180604 14:31:55<+discordbot5> or just the killing blow? 20180604 14:32:21<+discordbot5> dude how many touhou episodes have you beaten 20180604 14:32:21<+discordbot5> Trying to give my Shamans the killing blow is actually pretty difficult because of low accuracy, they can usually hit each turn without retaliation though (because of range) 20180604 14:32:24<+discordbot5> this game is hard af 20180604 14:32:41<+discordbot5> I only beat raspery of some shit on medium difficulty once 20180604 14:32:41<+discordbot5> The campaigns are noticably easier than Tutorial 2 20180604 14:32:56<+discordbot5> easiest campaign for beginners is orcish incursion 20180604 14:33:02<+discordbot5> not heir to the throne 20180604 14:33:11<+discordbot5> Seriously though does anyone have any tips on leveling up 20180604 14:33:12<+discordbot5> HTTT is for pros on hardest difficulty 20180604 14:33:31<+discordbot5> The biggest problem is making sure that last hit isn't stolen by allies, or that the unit I want to level up actually connects with it 20180604 14:33:36< Soliton> you get 1 XP per level of the enemy. no XP for level 0. you get 8 times that for a kill. 4 XP for level 0. 20180604 14:33:38<+discordbot5> leveling up depends on what kind of you unit 20180604 14:34:41-!- gfgt [~androirc@ersc137.goemobile.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180604 14:35:18<+discordbot5> Shaman is the biggest issue right now 20180604 14:35:49<+discordbot5> Usually when I try to have it steal kills it misses and I have to save scum 20180604 14:37:01-!- gfgt [~androirc@2001:638:60e:834:e4b2:fa1c:d31e:ce0a] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 14:37:59<+discordbot5> shamans are not so easy to level and are squishy... probably just takes time... or try to level two shamans the same time... 20180604 14:39:17<+discordbot5> and don't lose them wehen they leveled up. The sorcress is quite cool, but dies easily if you're not careful 20180604 14:41:52-!- gfgt [~androirc@2001:638:60e:834:e4b2:fa1c:d31e:ce0a] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180604 14:41:53<+discordbot5> due to each fight beeing random, it's logical what you will encounter a worst case situation involving a preciuos unit at some point - good to have someone cover her then 20180604 14:44:27<+discordbot5> Shamans only take 32 xp to leve lthough. 20180604 14:45:07<+discordbot5> yeah, less than mages, and they have 70% forest defense 20180604 14:45:25<+discordbot5> You have to very protectively uses them, like any mage (dark adepts are a very good example), because you really want to not have them face an orcish grunt in one on one. 20180604 14:45:40<+discordbot5> that is, if you want them to level 20180604 14:46:20<+discordbot5> shaman ez 20180604 14:46:23<+discordbot5> but you can get two units and a shaman attacking the same enemy in a turn and they all still get heals 20180604 14:46:31<+discordbot5> you constantly slow enemy melee units to bank exp 20180604 14:46:41<+discordbot5> and let other units leave the final blow for her 20180604 14:47:13<+discordbot5> issue is you cant both slow and have the final blow and the enemy might just exchange the slowed unit for one that can murderise the shaman 20180604 14:47:21<+discordbot5> ranking shaman I think is a harder issue in PvP than vs AI 20180604 14:47:28<+discordbot5> because you can S/L 20180604 14:47:42<+discordbot5> Saveload is not cool 20180604 14:47:44<+discordbot5> ofc if you dont want to S/L at all it can be harder 20180604 14:47:48<+discordbot5> but still, vs AI 20180604 14:48:02<+discordbot5> you got a hell lot of chances to take final blow and slow lame exp banking 20180604 14:48:13<+discordbot5> Relying on S/L won't really bring you any mastery of the game. 20180604 14:48:19<+discordbot5> You will adopt tactics that would never work without it. 20180604 14:48:25<+discordbot5> actually 20180604 14:48:34<+discordbot5> S/L is also huge part of the game's fanbase 20180604 14:48:37<+discordbot5> and even its culture 20180604 14:48:43<+discordbot5> but tbh I am not fan of S/L 20180604 14:48:46<+discordbot5> its fucking noob 20180604 14:49:02<+discordbot5> unless everyone in the mp mission want to 20180604 14:49:13<+discordbot5> It might help with understanding, but like I said, it won't bring you mastery of the game without S/L if you rely on S/L. 20180604 14:49:16<+discordbot5> otherwise S/L is the lowest meh choice 20180604 14:49:38-!- gfgt [~androirc@134.76.63.8] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 14:49:46<+discordbot5> The question is how to come up with a tactic that does not encourage saveload. 20180604 14:49:54<+discordbot5> easy 20180604 14:50:02<+discordbot5> reduce the fucking game's whole dodge rate by 10% 20180604 14:50:03<+discordbot5> You can rank Shamans without S/L, you just have to account for contingencies. 20180604 14:50:11< Ravana_> make saving cost few gold 20180604 14:50:12<+discordbot5> so you hit a normal unit by 70% of chance on flat 20180604 14:50:16<+discordbot5> now everyone wont save load lol 20180604 14:50:17<+discordbot5> aka the classical "why does the game have a random element?" 20180604 14:50:29<+discordbot5> Accounting for contingencies is a big part of the game if you very specifically want one certain outcome. 20180604 14:50:35<+discordbot5> or just ban save button 20180604 14:50:36<+discordbot5> remove it 20180604 14:50:41<+discordbot5> so you have to redo it whole 20180604 14:50:48<+discordbot5> if you make fatal mistakes 20180604 14:50:54<+discordbot5> or take too much risk for your heroes 20180604 14:50:58< Ravana_> it is trivial to disable loading saves with WML 20180604 14:51:32<+discordbot5> I think about like 6 years ago 20180604 14:51:33<+discordbot5> S/L isn't an issue of the core gameplay but rather how people approach it on a meta level. 20180604 14:51:43<+discordbot5> when I was a high schooler 20180604 14:51:48<+discordbot5> and still play the game 20180604 14:51:53<+discordbot5> there was a mod or something 20180604 14:51:59<+discordbot5> that gives a definitive result 20180604 14:52:00<+discordbot5> all time 20180604 14:52:07<+discordbot5> damage corrected by terrain 20180604 14:52:17<+discordbot5> instead of by dodge rate 20180604 14:52:22<+discordbot5> Rather than account for the contingencies required by a game of chance they will simply cheat to ensure every chance rolls in their favour. It is kind of like how you could play a singleplayer boardgame and just assume every roll of yours is perfect. 20180604 14:52:28<+discordbot5> it can technically prove some weird results 20180604 14:52:34<+discordbot5> having two shamans nearby goes in th direction of the 70% chance that one of them get's a blow 20180604 14:52:35<+discordbot5> like you can actually win any mission without save load 20180604 14:53:11<+discordbot5> Definitive mode is still a thing, it is just, it takes away a core aspect of the gameplay imho 20180604 14:53:25<+discordbot5> but you have to admit 20180604 14:53:32<+discordbot5> one of the most debatable nature of wesnoth 20180604 14:53:37<+discordbot5> over past maybe 2 decades 20180604 14:53:41<+discordbot5> is the super randomness 20180604 14:53:42<+discordbot5> ZoC was always the big important thing when using dark adepts or shamans or really mages in general. 20180604 14:53:59<+discordbot5> Why "super"? 20180604 14:54:29<+discordbot5> It is debatable, yes, and you can play without, yes, but it is a core feature and will always be a core feature enjoyed by a decently large part of the playerbase and almost universal in multiplayer. 20180604 14:55:07<+discordbot5> One of the biggest frustrations is that the human brain isn't made instantly understand what "80% chance" means. 20180604 14:59:21-!- gfgt [~androirc@134.76.63.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180604 15:08:34-!- gfgt [~androirc@134.76.63.8] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 15:10:12-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 15:11:36-!- sevu [~Shiki@p548551EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 15:21:42<+discordbot5> A major problem with this game IMO is the XP system, encourages encircling the opponent and grinding 20180604 15:23:20<+discordbot5> You mean towards the end of a mission? 20180604 15:23:53<+discordbot5> I think it's not cost-effective most of the time, tbh. 20180604 15:27:17<+discordbot5> Most unit level by themselves over the time, but for the squishy units it's hard 20180604 15:32:13-!- gallaecio [~quassel@143.red-81-32-24.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180604 15:32:37<+discordbot5> But you can't really grind with them. Just set something up for them to last hit (in ym experience) 20180604 15:33:12<+discordbot5> Elfish Shamans being one of the prime candidates in the "a pain to level"-category 20180604 15:33:25<+discordbot5> Wish there was a way to level up support units outside of combat 20180604 15:33:26<+discordbot5> If I think about it, it are shamans - pure supporter units - and mages - squishy units who need more xp than others - who have this difficulty in particular. Other units in the game can take care of themselves 20180604 15:33:29<+discordbot5> like through certain buildings 20180604 15:34:12<+discordbot5> I think it is supposed to be hard - the rewards of leveling such a unit are high 20180604 15:34:32<+discordbot5> Yeah. 20180604 15:34:59<+discordbot5> white mages in particular were a thing for me in the HttT campaign 20180604 15:36:29< Soliton> there are several addons that allow different XP handling. 20180604 15:40:05<+discordbot5> I just came back 20180604 15:40:05-!- gfgt [~androirc@134.76.63.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180604 15:40:07<+discordbot5> what did I miss 20180604 15:40:13<+discordbot5> 🤔 20180604 15:40:16<+discordbot5> its fucking hot 20180604 15:40:17<+discordbot5> here 20180604 15:40:41<+discordbot5> that's due to the drakes 20180604 15:40:43<+discordbot5> Touhou - which campaign are you playing? If it's Heir to the Throne, then I would recommend first leveling up other units, not shamans. Shamans are not that easy to level up for a new player and even when you manage to do it, it's easy to lose them if you make some mistakes. For a new player it is better to focus on leveling up other units. In HttT you will have access to mages that, after level up, can also heal other units, like 20180604 15:40:44<+discordbot5> shaman line. 20180604 15:41:28-!- gfgt [~androirc@134.76.63.8] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 15:41:37<+discordbot5> Also of another point - leveling up some regular unit will give you more direct advantage and will make further leveling of other units easier, as you will get much more damage (compared to leveling up shaman) 20180604 15:41:53-!- sevu [~Shiki@p548551EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20180604 15:42:43<+discordbot5> Is hould finish my HttT campaign someday, I guess. 20180604 15:43:04<+discordbot5> Funny thing is, most of my really high level stuff are dwarfs^^ 20180604 15:45:33<+discordbot5> I recently tried HttT again, on hard, but it really punishes every single mistake and also the campaign in general exposes the biggest flaw in the Wesnoth campaign structure - it's not clear when you have lost. 20180604 15:46:04<+discordbot5> What I mean by that is that you can win several battles only to realize that you did not keep enough units leveled up an alive those several battles ago and you have to replay that. 20180604 15:47:06<+discordbot5> I was toying with an idea that perhaps adding a lose condition "lose more than x units" or win condition "have at least y units of level z" to campaign scenarios, to better show player what he is expected to have at any stage, could be helpful 20180604 15:47:24<+discordbot5> but than of course this would be a huge change and not to everyone's liking 20180604 15:47:48<+discordbot5> Maybe try it out on a new campaign first and gather feedback? 20180604 15:48:34-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 15:48:40< Soliton> the "new" gold carry over should make that less likely but some gold values might need tweaking. 20180604 15:49:15<+discordbot5> what is a new gold carry over? I remember this was changed long time ago already at least once 20180604 15:49:15< Soliton> you should be able to beat the scenario with minimal gold on normal difficulty anyway. 20180604 15:49:40< Soliton> 40% carry over instead of 80% 20180604 15:50:00<+discordbot5> Mhm, I didn't find big problems while playing it on normal. Well, no. 20180604 15:50:02<+discordbot5> I don't think you can beat later scenarios if you don't have enough lvled-up units, at least I can't 20180604 15:50:06< Soliton> so you cannot hoard gold as much. 20180604 15:50:11<+discordbot5> 40% carry over is already there 20180604 15:50:17<+discordbot5> There was one scenario that nearly made me quit the campaign. 20180604 15:50:29<+discordbot5> but my point is not about gold, it's about experienced units 20180604 15:50:39<+discordbot5> for me it's never been lack of leveled units that's gotten me stuck in campaigns, but lack of gold 20180604 15:50:41<+discordbot5> Like....you are in the middle of three undead forces 20180604 15:50:44< Soliton> yes, that's why i put new in quotation because it's not really new anymore. 20180604 15:51:01<+discordbot5> That was an unexpected spike 20180604 15:51:05<+discordbot5> ok, I wasn't playing Wesnoth for a few years, so I didn't realize this was new 20180604 15:51:20<+discordbot5> if you have enough gold you can get a bunch of fresh recruits and level them, especially on hard where there's more XP available 20180604 15:51:21-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180604 15:51:24< Soliton> post a savegame and see if someone can beat it or you get minimal gold raised. :-P 20180604 15:51:26<+discordbot5> oh yes, I stopped exactly on this scenario with my hard playthrough, SaloGhost 20180604 15:51:47<+discordbot5> Well, you can express leveled units in gold though 20180604 15:52:07<+discordbot5> Basically "theoretical recuitment cost of that unit - 20" 20180604 15:52:10<+discordbot5> Inky, it depends on scenario, turn limit might not be high enough 20180604 15:52:11< Soliton> i think you can hide in a corner in that scenario? not sure i ever tried that. 20180604 15:52:31<+discordbot5> interesting idea 20180604 15:52:34<+discordbot5> Well, i beat it on normal after a while 20180604 15:52:39<+discordbot5> perhaps you can, in bottom right 20180604 15:52:50< Ravana_> I don't see why so many scenarios have everything with recall cost of 20 20180604 15:52:52<+discordbot5> although northern and western enemy have cavalry 20180604 15:53:13<+discordbot5> I thought recall cost of 20 was standard, not scenario-specific 20180604 15:53:38<+discordbot5> ah valley of death, I always went straight southwest and defeated the leader there so I could hide in his castle 20180604 15:53:38< Soliton> yes. with 1.14 you can customize it though. 20180604 15:53:46<+discordbot5> The point is, a L3 unit often has a value in excess of 50 gold. 20180604 15:53:51< Ravana_> there is global recall cost(20), and there is unit type recall cost, and single unit recall cost 20180604 15:53:57<+discordbot5> So getting them for 20 is like getting 30 gold 20180604 15:54:15<+discordbot5> they cost lots of upkeep though 20180604 15:54:20<+discordbot5> valley of death 20180604 15:54:40<+discordbot5> hmm, I think I remember that one being the hardest scenario in the campaign 20180604 15:55:12<+discordbot5> it's actually possible to kill all enemy leaders, but you need to play close to optimally to do that 20180604 15:55:14<+discordbot5> wait a fucking second... 20180604 15:55:17< Soliton> it's certainly pretty difficult to kill all three lichs. :-P 20180604 15:55:47<+discordbot5> the problem is, it's just so much harder than the scenarios around it 20180604 15:55:57<+discordbot5> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/453225396121370625/unknown.png 20180604 15:56:09<+discordbot5> I think that it would actually be a scenario from an expert level campaign 20180604 15:56:10<+discordbot5> well, to me it really depends on what army you have at that point 20180604 15:56:10<+discordbot5> we actually added friend with each other like half a year ago already? 20180604 15:56:11<+discordbot5> I mean, it's good in a way. Because I leraned much from the scenario 20180604 15:56:16<+discordbot5> @Touhou Project　東方プロジェクト 😂 20180604 15:56:24<+discordbot5> as I managed to get all my white mages killed in previous scenarios, I didn't have any at the start of that scenario 20180604 15:56:24<+discordbot5> LOL 20180604 15:56:28<+discordbot5> How small this world is 20180604 15:56:31<+discordbot5> and that means no illumination 20180604 15:56:31<+discordbot5> But it was kinda frustrating at that point 20180604 15:56:39<+discordbot5> playing two same dead games 20180604 15:56:40<+discordbot5> in a row 20180604 15:56:42<+discordbot5> together 20180604 15:56:45<+discordbot5> 😅 20180604 15:57:07<+discordbot5> now another nameless video game channel we meet again 20180604 15:57:13<+discordbot5> to kill enemy leaders, high level units are probably required 20180604 15:57:27<+discordbot5> depends 20180604 15:57:31<+discordbot5> on that scenario 20180604 15:57:33<+discordbot5> I mean 20180604 15:57:41<+discordbot5> My main problem were the Level 2....gjhosts. Don't know how they< are called 20180604 15:57:44<+discordbot5> which scenario, may I ask 20180604 15:57:45<+discordbot5> wraiths and shadows 20180604 15:57:51<+discordbot5> Wraiths, yes 20180604 15:57:56<+discordbot5> no, the worst thing is enemy cavalry 20180604 15:57:56<+discordbot5> Dead game?! 20180604 15:57:57<+discordbot5> valley of death, HttT 20180604 15:58:00<+discordbot5> Always sniping conrad 20180604 15:58:07<+discordbot5> it has huge movement and somehow can always find a way to kill your mages 20180604 15:58:07<+discordbot5> red alert 3 and kanes wrath I man 20180604 15:58:19<+discordbot5> Not that ded 20180604 15:58:21<+discordbot5> we met at that channel earlier half a year ago 20180604 15:58:27<+discordbot5> now that we meet here again 20180604 15:58:33<+discordbot5> Was that RTS lovers or C&CWorld 20180604 15:58:33<+discordbot5> yet a not very famous game too 20180604 15:58:42<+discordbot5> can you take that to DM, @Flameheart ? We are kind of in the middle of an interesting discussion 20180604 15:58:44<+discordbot5> This game I thought was pretty famous in the open source community 20180604 15:59:03<+discordbot5> what issue you guys mean 20180604 15:59:26<+discordbot5> we are talking about the valley of death scenario in HttT 20180604 15:59:29<+discordbot5> blegh, here I was, thinking most of the campaigns were too easy 20180604 15:59:34<+discordbot5> 😱 20180604 15:59:38<+discordbot5> most of campaigns are too hard :p 20180604 15:59:39<+discordbot5> in the context of the value of leveled units more genrally 20180604 15:59:43<+discordbot5> or, to be precise - too long 20180604 15:59:43<+discordbot5> is that scenario that you can literally win by laming? 20180604 15:59:52<+discordbot5> I mass units to kill right 20180604 15:59:56<+discordbot5> I know people somehow love long campaigns, but for me anything over around 15 scenarios is too long 20180604 16:00:03<+discordbot5> two knights grab holy water and assasinate leader, job done 20180604 16:00:07<+discordbot5> 😂 20180604 16:00:08<+discordbot5> I usually get some cheap fodder units like elvish fighters to distract enemies in hard scenarios 20180604 16:00:27<+discordbot5> how about in play time? 20180604 16:00:33<+discordbot5> Well, I don't say the scenario is unbeatable or anything 20180604 16:00:34<+discordbot5> scenarios have different lengths 20180604 16:00:37<+discordbot5> tell you what, you place dat horse, in front of dat lich, on flat ground 20180604 16:00:44<+discordbot5> he always comes out to tempest you 20180604 16:00:45<+discordbot5> @Inky yeah, I was trying that too, problem is they get killed too easily 20180604 16:00:48<+discordbot5> so you always get the kill 20180604 16:00:52<+discordbot5> 😂 20180604 16:00:58<+discordbot5> Just that it is significantly harder than the rest of the camapign before (and after) 20180604 16:01:03<+discordbot5> yeah, I know, it's difficult to tell the real time lenght though 20180604 16:01:19<+discordbot5> I liked the lenght of UtbS even though its scenarios are quite long 20180604 16:01:27<+discordbot5> it is not harder, just significantly smarter strategy 20180604 16:01:57<+discordbot5> Requiring smarter strategy is the same as being harder for a strategy game, no? 20180604 16:02:11<+discordbot5> also the best thing about campaigns is leveling up units, if by the half of campaign I already have plenty of level 3 (or 4) units, it doesn't feel that good and I'm not eager to play more 20180604 16:02:24<+discordbot5> sometimes yes, but when you executed it correctly, you would question 20180604 16:02:34<+discordbot5> "why the fuck is this so easily done with such cheese" 20180604 16:02:47<+discordbot5> and yet such kind of cheesy strat works a lot in campaigns 20180604 16:02:54<+discordbot5> sometimes no 20180604 16:03:05<+discordbot5> even with a good strategy, you take heavy losses 20180604 16:03:13<+discordbot5> I think that is called a real hard scenario 20180604 16:03:15<+discordbot5> if you have found a perfect strategy for a specific map, what exactly could the difficulty come from? It is exactly the finding the perfect strategy that is the difficulty 20180604 16:03:40<+discordbot5> yeah, but problem is, this game simply has some certain scenarios that you cant outsmart the AI 20180604 16:03:44<+discordbot5> Can only speak to my experience, and I found it to be a good bit frustrating (in a positive way) 20180604 16:03:50<+discordbot5> and has to play toe to toe, which means causualites 20180604 16:03:54<+discordbot5> and do you know any game for which this sentence is not true? 20180604 16:04:06<+discordbot5> ah, "can't" 20180604 16:04:28<+discordbot5> I am not saying this is not true tho, you are right about the understanding of strat, which affect difficulty in some ways 20180604 16:04:37<+discordbot5> but sometimes you cant, then it came a different story 20180604 16:04:54<+discordbot5> for example, I did remember that there was one scenario in under the burning suns 20180604 16:05:12<+discordbot5> where you came out from a cave and instantly get cornerned by horde of T2 humans on hardest difficulty 20180604 16:05:25<+discordbot5> and in nights there are T2 ghosts to surround you, too 20180604 16:05:30<+discordbot5> that one is called real hard 20180604 16:05:34<+discordbot5> I think a scenario where you are dependend on luck to win (in addition to playing nearly optimal) is overtuned, tbh. 20180604 16:05:41<+discordbot5> because you have no smart way to win, has to just take losses and go through 20180604 16:05:53<+discordbot5> UtbS has problems with surprising player with things that are difficult to deal with if you don't know about them in advance 20180604 16:06:04<+discordbot5> I played it 6 years ago tho 20180604 16:06:08<+discordbot5> tbh that fucks my mind 20180604 16:06:15<+discordbot5> not sure if it improved these years 20180604 16:06:16<+discordbot5> I have played it recently, but on normal 20180604 16:06:18<+discordbot5> 🤔 20180604 16:06:26<+discordbot5> it improved compared to my previous playthrough 20180604 16:06:33<+discordbot5> okay, fair enough 20180604 16:06:38<+discordbot5> although it might just be my memory, I'm not even sur ewhat was changed 20180604 16:06:47<+discordbot5> I will try beat it again this sunday after the update 20180604 16:06:51<+discordbot5> well Yumi/nemaara managed to do a no loss playthrough of UtBS - pretty awesome! 20180604 16:07:00<+discordbot5> Another frustrating thing about Valley of Death is the lack of any plot signifigance whatsoever (in contrast to the spike in difficulty) 20180604 16:07:01<+discordbot5> without reloading? 20180604 16:07:04<+discordbot5> wow no loss play through 20180604 16:07:09<+discordbot5> that literally means SL 20180604 16:07:19<+discordbot5> if I lost a unit I started the scenario voer 20180604 16:07:22<+discordbot5> over* 20180604 16:07:24<+discordbot5> because you always inevitably has to take some certain level of risk 20180604 16:07:28<+discordbot5> oh, that is impressive 20180604 16:07:31<+discordbot5> even losing T3 units on favorable ground 20180604 16:07:33<+discordbot5> on normal? 20180604 16:07:36<+discordbot5> so yes, some scenarios took me a couple tries 20180604 16:07:38<+discordbot5> hard mode 20180604 16:07:39<+discordbot5> but that is a S/L, too... 20180604 16:07:40<+discordbot5> omg 20180604 16:07:44<+discordbot5> I couldn't do it 20180604 16:07:45<+discordbot5> it is 20180604 16:07:46<+discordbot5> just a more massive scale one 20180604 16:07:51<+discordbot5> even with savescumming 20180604 16:07:54<+discordbot5> and more time consuming one... 20180604 16:08:00<+discordbot5> it wasn't too bad 20180604 16:08:09<+discordbot5> I'd wager it took about 6-7 hours total 20180604 16:08:09<+discordbot5> what difficulty, btw? 20180604 16:08:13<+discordbot5> hard, I almost always play on hard 20180604 16:08:29<+discordbot5> UTBS 20180604 16:08:31<+discordbot5> actually 20180604 16:08:34<+discordbot5> I think 20180604 16:08:54<+discordbot5> it is easier for you to sacrifise like 40% of your T3 units in the progress of the campaign 20180604 16:09:08<+discordbot5> for a better breakthrough and contain the RNG content to not save load 20180604 16:09:34<+discordbot5> because your final scenario allows you to recall only like 1/2 of your total ranked ups 20180604 16:09:42<+discordbot5> which means most the else are wasted 20180604 16:10:02<+discordbot5> minus NR, which I don't particularly enjoy playing 20180604 16:10:07<+discordbot5> NR sux 20180604 16:10:08<+discordbot5> I tend to play campaigns with a small number of high-leveld units 20180604 16:10:15<+discordbot5> massive slogfest 20180604 16:10:19<+discordbot5> and just recall them over and over 20180604 16:10:28<+discordbot5> i played NR once, never again 20180604 16:10:35<+discordbot5> do you use new recruits as fodder? 20180604 16:10:37<+discordbot5> no 20180604 16:10:38<+discordbot5> I played NR again and again 20180604 16:10:42<+discordbot5> and tbh 20180604 16:10:50<+discordbot5> when you guys release 1.14.3 this weekend 20180604 16:10:51<+discordbot5> however, I don't recommend doing that if you're not used to it 20180604 16:10:54<+discordbot5> I finish the final scenario 20180604 16:10:59<+discordbot5> never gonna touch it again till 1.14 20180604 16:11:07<+discordbot5> interesting, I guess you are just much better at positioning than I am 20180604 16:11:20<+discordbot5> I tend to play with the same group of units as well 20180604 16:11:22<+discordbot5> I use fresh recruits to cannon folder all time 20180604 16:11:30<+discordbot5> and tell you what, I found over time 20180604 16:11:36<+discordbot5> but I play usually on normal and I tend to lose a unit here and there 20180604 16:11:43<+discordbot5> footpad and spearman are arguably best cannon folders in game 20180604 16:12:00<+discordbot5> one has unrealistic dodge rate and thus very hard to deter 20180604 16:12:07<+discordbot5> I think my mistake is being too aggressive, but I'm always afraid of the timer 20180604 16:12:13<+discordbot5> one retaliates decently with cheap price 20180604 16:12:18<+discordbot5> if you are using a small set of units 20180604 16:12:19<+discordbot5> and walking corpses, since you can use them to make more 😃 20180604 16:12:20<+discordbot5> you can afford to be patient 20180604 16:12:27<+discordbot5> zombies meh 20180604 16:12:32<+discordbot5> only two campaigns in use 20180604 16:12:38<+discordbot5> and I didnt touch the new one yet... 20180604 16:12:56<+discordbot5> and tbh undead best cannon folder is ghoul right? 20180604 16:13:08<+discordbot5> bats 20180604 16:13:12<+discordbot5> because you can never hit them 20180604 16:13:13<+discordbot5> :p 20180604 16:13:35<+discordbot5> actually no...undead units are cheap, you literally waste anything else than ghost as cannon folder 20180604 16:13:52<+discordbot5> the only OPness of Undead super late game tactics require ghost only 20180604 16:13:56<+discordbot5> it depends on what the enemy has I guess 20180604 16:13:59<+discordbot5> all fucking skeletons go die 20180604 16:14:02<+discordbot5> 😒 20180604 16:14:07<+discordbot5> just gonna waste them 20180604 16:14:08<+discordbot5> all day 20180604 16:14:45<+discordbot5> well in that Malin Keshar campaign I just massed exp for ghost and used ske and ghoul as expandables 20180604 16:15:00<+discordbot5> that is the only mission I never finish with 20180604 16:15:15<+discordbot5> because you can technically survive forever by ghost/malin laming 20180604 16:15:24<+discordbot5> you drain more blood than enemy can damage you 20180604 16:16:18<+discordbot5> you walk the old lich into the cave with a water terrain in his front and stand there for the massive laming 20180604 16:16:29<+discordbot5> blind click, hot key end turn, nonstop 20180604 16:16:34<+discordbot5> you can play technically forever 20180604 16:16:40<+discordbot5> if you have the patience 20180604 16:16:50<+discordbot5> yeah unfortuately 20180604 16:16:53<+discordbot5> so I gave up, lol 20180604 16:17:12<+discordbot5> it makes no sense to die anyway, too 20180604 16:17:39<+discordbot5> because he gonna survive this and come back in a UMC 20180604 16:17:44<+discordbot5> ah that reminds me 20180604 16:18:09<+discordbot5> I found this game, laming is a very basic key content 20180604 16:18:11<+discordbot5> for newer players, or people wanting to learn more strategy, perhaps one of the better sources is actually IftU 20180604 16:18:19<+discordbot5> since Inky has a nice playthrough of it with detailed explanations 20180604 16:18:32<+discordbot5> nah IftU... 20180604 16:18:37<+discordbot5> it has good art 20180604 16:18:41<+discordbot5> but the campaign itself 20180604 16:18:54<+discordbot5> with the OP factions and new units 20180604 16:18:56<+discordbot5> oh wow, thanks 😃 20180604 16:19:04<+discordbot5> and poorly balanced 20180604 16:19:10<+discordbot5> oh, where can I find that playthrough? 20180604 16:19:12<+discordbot5> for new players they better start with normal damage units 20180604 16:19:17<+discordbot5> depends what version you've played 20180604 16:19:24<+discordbot5> the newest one is pretty balanced 20180604 16:19:33<+discordbot5> I think IftU heavily rely on use of undead 20180604 16:19:40<+discordbot5> because the shakshalls 20180604 16:19:41<+discordbot5> it's in the "Strategies and TIps" forum 20180604 16:19:43<+discordbot5> you do not have to 20180604 16:19:46<+discordbot5> not sure if I spelled correctly 20180604 16:19:54<+discordbot5> shaxthals 20180604 16:19:58<+discordbot5> ah thanks 20180604 16:20:01<+discordbot5> shaxthals then 20180604 16:20:07<+discordbot5> it always have poison 20180604 16:20:14<+discordbot5> so I mass undead to handle this 20180604 16:20:19<+discordbot5> I forget what Inky used in her playthrough 20180604 16:20:24<+discordbot5> but shadowm herself actually used a lot of elves 20180604 16:20:42<+discordbot5> thanks 20180604 16:20:44<+discordbot5> lots of spectres mostly 20180604 16:21:11<+discordbot5> hersalf 20180604 16:21:16<+discordbot5> you kidding me 20180604 16:21:21<+discordbot5> I thought she was a he 20180604 16:21:24<+discordbot5> since 6 years ago 20180604 16:21:59<+discordbot5> yeah a traiditional noob approach is mass spec 20180604 16:22:17<+discordbot5> because good physical resistence to shax and arcane damage hurts them 20180604 16:22:22<+discordbot5> plus some cave scenarios 20180604 16:22:37<+discordbot5> you walk very long path, with also lot of unpassable terrains 20180604 16:22:43<+discordbot5> where ghosts work better than elves 20180604 16:23:26<+discordbot5> is that it? https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=44381&p=599214&hilit=invasion#p599214 20180604 16:23:57<+discordbot5> the linked article in the wiki claims to be done by shadowm 20180604 16:24:00<+discordbot5> no it's this : https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=43960 20180604 16:24:16<+discordbot5> ah, the let's play, ok, thanks 20180604 16:24:18<+discordbot5> will check it out 20180604 16:24:34<+discordbot5> thanks bro 20180604 16:24:45<+discordbot5> lets see what new stuff can find else than mass ghost 20180604 16:24:48<+discordbot5> 😂 20180604 16:24:58<+discordbot5> I think hunters now have 50% defense in caves 20180604 16:25:05<+discordbot5> which is really nice if you want to use them 20180604 16:25:28<+discordbot5> sadly it seems IfdU is not available for 1.14 yet 20180604 16:25:36<+discordbot5> I haven't played it ever 20180604 16:25:43<+discordbot5> it's being ported now 20180604 16:25:47<+discordbot5> cool 20180604 16:26:07<+discordbot5> I encountered only a couple bugs on my playthrough, which have since been fixed 20180604 16:33:30-!- gfgt [~androirc@134.76.63.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180604 16:40:54<+discordbot5> i havent encountered any bugs personally 20180604 16:42:40-!- Guest71929 [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 17:03:50<+discordbot5> @sevu It's not really hard for mages due to the gauranteed 70% and shamans don't require much xp. 20180604 17:04:06<+discordbot5> Well, maybe slightly, but sorcerers are so good. 20180604 17:24:27-!- ToBeFree [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 17:26:42-!- Guest71929 is now known as Haudegen 20180604 17:52:55<+discordbot5> I wonder how hard it would be to do elf-shaman-only runs of some campaigns. 20180604 17:55:23<+discordbot5> Once slowed, most enemies become fairly useless, and I think impact/pierce/arcane covers pretty much everything. 20180604 17:55:45<+discordbot5> it would be relatively easy for AOI and HttT, but impossible for Legend of Wesmere since you get shaman recruits really late 20180604 18:00:43< zookeeper> i'd dare to say that doing that in HttT is kind of a minor tradition 20180604 18:03:20< zookeeper> if you allow recalling any unit and only limit your recruits to shamans, then it's not even terribly difficult. dunno if anyone's done it with limited recalling, though. 20180604 18:05:50<+discordbot5> I was thinking of recruiting and recalling only shaman-line units. anything else the map gives you would be okay, for that map only. 20180604 18:07:01<+discordbot5> It'd be masochistic to only allow recruiting shamans, with no recalls. 20180604 18:08:00<+discordbot5> 'good luck against those T3s, girls!' 20180604 18:08:26<+discordbot5> It's the gauntlet you have to pass to become one of the most powerful T2s in the game. 20180604 18:14:22<+discordbot5> Apparently Wintermute beat HttT on hard with only recruiting shamans. But he did allow himself to recall the free loyals too. https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=331111#p331111 20180604 18:17:57-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20180604 18:23:39<+discordbot5> Ecqui loquitur Latine hic? Rogo quia est Latinae optio luso. 20180604 18:27:25<+discordbot5> just reading through that thread, beetlenaut and HomerJ also said they did it as well. but they didn't post a replay. 20180604 18:29:33<+discordbot5> considering that was posted 9 years ago, I'm fairly certain somebody's done it by now 20180604 18:32:13<+discordbot5> I loved that thread, too bad many of the replays no longer work 20180604 18:32:22<+discordbot5> at any rate, HttT throws loyal troops at you by the bucketful, so recalling loyal units and shamans isn't much of a restriction 20180604 18:50:54<+discordbot5> So it looks like the key to leveling up is to initiate attacks with "throwaway" greenhorns with 0 XP (and you could care less if they died) 20180604 18:51:31<+discordbot5> Interesting that a bit of XP changes units from cannon fodder to units that you'll want to protect at all costs 20180604 19:00:28-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 19:00:39-!- gallaecio_ [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 19:33:37-!- ToBeFree [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180604 19:36:19-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:45c4:1ad6:318c:ea07] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 20:00:57<+discordbot5> yea, xp 20180604 20:12:30-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p2E5111C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 20:17:43<+discordbot5> Which is better 20180604 20:17:43<+discordbot5> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/453291268408082432/unknown.png 20180604 20:18:44<+discordbot5> This is something I hate about the campaign. 20180604 20:18:50<+discordbot5> Concensus is priestess. 20180604 20:19:03<+discordbot5> You need to know how the whole thing plays out to know that the answer is "none of the above". 20180604 20:19:26<+discordbot5> In the long term, anyway. 20180604 20:19:30<+discordbot5> From playing Arena I know the concensus is priestess. 20180604 20:19:38<+discordbot5> What's Arena. 20180604 20:19:52<+discordbot5> Anyway it's true that priestesses are more useful for the next scenario. 20180604 20:20:03<+discordbot5> It's because Diviner gets Illuminate. 20180604 20:20:20<+discordbot5> That's why the consensus is Priestess. 20180604 20:20:41<+discordbot5> Priestess it is then 20180604 20:20:47<+discordbot5> ENchantress is just an upgrade 20180604 20:20:54<+discordbot5> I was hoping they'd get a cool new ability 20180604 20:20:58<+discordbot5> like ability to stop enemies from attacking 20180604 20:21:07<+discordbot5> same with Elvish Warrior -> Hero 20180604 20:21:17<+discordbot5> Enchantess is like 15% more damage in trade for not having illuminate 20180604 20:21:19<+discordbot5> Enchantress and Siren are just about punching people with water. 20180604 20:21:24<+discordbot5> that's a cool idea, I'm stealing it for my campaign 20180604 20:21:24<+discordbot5> thanks 20180604 20:21:27<+discordbot5> :p 20180604 20:21:29<+discordbot5> It's not exactly useless, but it's rather situational. 20180604 20:21:35<+discordbot5> The stop enemies from attacking? 20180604 20:21:37<+discordbot5> yup 20180604 20:21:40<+discordbot5> Siren is like 15% more damage in trade for lacking illuminate and healing 20180604 20:21:42<+discordbot5> I was hoping the abilities in this game would be a bit more diverse IMO 20180604 20:21:48<+discordbot5> kind of like Red Alert 2 or Zero-K 20180604 20:22:01<+discordbot5> where you have weird shit like teleporters, chrono-phasers, lasers that bounce off of enemies 20180604 20:22:03<+discordbot5> so only if you don't need more helaing or illuminate is Siren better 20180604 20:22:07<+discordbot5> aka if you have no other mermaid units 20180604 20:22:09<+discordbot5> that's my 2c 20180604 20:22:12<+discordbot5> really slow, really tough flyers like Kirovs 20180604 20:22:15<+discordbot5> you might like Era of Magic, then 20180604 20:22:17<+discordbot5> that stuff would be hilarious 20180604 20:22:22<+discordbot5> How many Eras are there 20180604 20:22:35<+discordbot5> a lot 🤷 20180604 20:22:39<+discordbot5> The base game has deliberately simple rules and very few exceptions to the rules (a.k.a. abilities and weapon specials). 20180604 20:22:53<+discordbot5> Ageless Era has a ton of them 20180604 20:23:07<+discordbot5> Base game is deliberately simple to understand hard to master. 20180604 20:23:50-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180604 20:24:22< aeth> Terrain, time of day, damage types (and resistances), melee vs. ranged, and a handful of attack modifiers like magic or marksman. That's about it. 20180604 20:24:42<+discordbot5> Forgot ZoC 20180604 20:25:05< aeth> Well, I was talking about unit combat. There are a few other things in unit combat, like number of strikes per attack and traits. 20180604 20:25:41< aeth> If I included ZoC I'd probably have to add a lot of complications like territorial control (especially villages and forward keeps) 20180604 20:26:14<+discordbot5> Also Diviner is better in melee. 20180604 20:26:20-!- gallaecio_ [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Converse confortabelmente. En calquera parte.] 20180604 20:26:20-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Converse confortabelmente. En calquera parte.] 20180604 20:26:35<+discordbot5> disregard that forgot Siren gets magical melee 20180604 20:26:43<+discordbot5> Only four eras huh 20180604 20:26:43<+discordbot5> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/453293528878022666/unknown.png 20180604 20:26:47<+discordbot5> there is also poison, healing, leadership abilities 20180604 20:27:00<+discordbot5> The last two are just the first one with another human faction >_< 20180604 20:27:09<+discordbot5> They could have at least made the Dunefolk Djinn 20180604 20:27:11<+discordbot5> Leadership is a damage modifier, simple to understand. 20180604 20:27:38<+discordbot5> you need to download add-ons with more eras, campaigns and units 20180604 20:27:39<+discordbot5> ZoC is kind of a core feature because without it DAs would be pretty useless. 20180604 20:28:00<+discordbot5> ah yes, I should have clarified, Era of Magic is an add-on 20180604 20:28:26<+discordbot5> Are Dunefolk still OP? 20180604 20:28:44<+discordbot5> So, recommended addons 20180604 20:29:15<+discordbot5> Era of Magic, Ageless Era for eras 20180604 20:29:28<+discordbot5> Ageless is a bit tricky since it's absolutely huge and has some balancing to be done 20180604 20:29:33<+discordbot5> XP mod is useful 20180604 20:29:43<+discordbot5> "Ageless Era is a compilation of the most popular eras and factions on the add-on server. " 20180604 20:29:44<+discordbot5> Oooo 20180604 20:29:47<+discordbot5> it depends if you are interested in multiplayer or campaigns 20180604 20:29:53<+discordbot5> Can you play each era against each other tehre 20180604 20:29:58<+discordbot5> I prefer to just play vs. AI 20180604 20:30:05<+discordbot5> and have as many wacky options as possible 20180604 20:30:11<+discordbot5> you can use all the factions in Ageless 20180604 20:30:12<+discordbot5> Wasn't there an Era where you got to play a custom wiznard? 20180604 20:30:20<+discordbot5> Who does powerful spellery. 20180604 20:30:21<+discordbot5> that would be Era of High Sorcery, I think 20180604 20:30:27<+discordbot5> Does Ageless have a campaign? 20180604 20:30:31<+discordbot5> I think it's coming to 1.14 sometime 20180604 20:30:41<+discordbot5> Ageless doesn't have a campaign, but it does have an MP scenario, Orochia 20180604 20:30:42<+discordbot5> does it include any campaigns from the other eras 20180604 20:30:50<+discordbot5> sorry, Orocia 20180604 20:30:57<+discordbot5> you should try To Lands Unknown 20180604 20:31:40<+discordbot5> it's a campaign based on Era of Magic units, with a lot of special abilities and different attacks and very original use of graphics in Wesnoth 20180604 20:32:19<+discordbot5> any1 knows when after the storm or invasion from the unknown will be playable in 1.14? 20180604 20:32:21<+discordbot5> Is the Github link to Ageless compiled 20180604 20:32:32<+discordbot5> or do I have to build everything 20180604 20:32:36<+discordbot5> you don't need to build anything 20180604 20:32:40<+discordbot5> IftU will be "soon" 20180604 20:32:45<+discordbot5> open the game and click add-on in the main menu 20180604 20:32:56<+discordbot5> AtS is tentatively in acouple months 20180604 20:33:11<+discordbot5> cool 20180604 20:33:17<+discordbot5> I'm very hyped after playing genesis 20180604 20:33:29< Ravana_> I release compiled(preprocessed) ageless for performance reasons, but you can just load it normally as well 20180604 20:33:55<+discordbot5> what difficulty did you play it on? 20180604 20:34:03<+discordbot5> I think it was normal? 20180604 20:34:05<+discordbot5> lemme check 20180604 20:34:22<+discordbot5> ye medium 20180604 20:34:25< Ravana_> note that currently ageless development git version is split to https://github.com/ProditorMagnus/Ageless-for-1-14 and https://github.com/ProditorMagnus/Ageless-Resources-1-14 20180604 20:34:38<+discordbot5> and it wasn't too hard? 20180604 20:34:51<+discordbot5> on certain scenarios i was 20180604 20:35:07<+discordbot5> but I think it's because I got the wrong upgrades for the main chars 20180604 20:35:10<+discordbot5> 😕 20180604 20:35:27<+discordbot5> the ones with bosses if you get the wrong path can get hard 20180604 20:35:54<+discordbot5> I tried to make yumi a ranged damage dealer esther a tank 20180604 20:36:24<+discordbot5> and I failed at making a healer out of aryel 20180604 20:38:24<+discordbot5> well, I should tell you that the gameplay in Genesis is very different from even IftU and AtS 20180604 20:38:36<+discordbot5> even if they're part of the same universe 20180604 20:38:57<+discordbot5> I like the AMLA rpg factor 20180604 20:39:11<+discordbot5> what levels did you get the fae to? 20180604 20:39:23<+discordbot5> I think it was 4 20180604 20:39:34<+discordbot5> yahhhhhh that's a problem 20180604 20:39:52<+discordbot5> so I needed to lvl them up more? 20180604 20:39:53<+discordbot5> I really should implement my fix for that 20180604 20:39:55<+discordbot5> yup 20180604 20:40:09<+discordbot5> it's okay, I'm planning to do something about it 20180604 20:40:14<+discordbot5> I think the exp required it's too much 20180604 20:40:36<+discordbot5> loaded the scenario after ashen hearts III yumi is lvl 4 and need 1k exp to lvl up 20180604 20:40:57<+discordbot5> so sounds like that's level 4, last advancement before level 5 20180604 20:41:21<+discordbot5> problem is vs lvl 3 and 4 units at most it's hard to get 1k exp 20180604 20:41:33<+discordbot5> have you played legend of the invincibles? 20180604 20:41:36<+discordbot5> some 20180604 20:41:52<+discordbot5> I have a solution, I just need to implement it 20180604 20:42:07<+discordbot5> what are you planning?ç 20180604 20:42:23<+discordbot5> you will get exp after completing puzzles 20180604 20:42:56<+discordbot5> I'm thinking around 150-200 exp per puzzle, more on easy, less on hard 20180604 20:43:04<+discordbot5> hm 20180604 20:43:06<+discordbot5> could work 20180604 20:43:23<+discordbot5> what about making them stronger as the storyline progresses? 20180604 20:43:37<+discordbot5> I don't know if this is possible I don't know much about making campaigns 20180604 20:43:58<+discordbot5> but same way as in some campaign a unit lvls up at the start of one scenario 20180604 20:44:01<+discordbot5> How many times can a unit level up? 20180604 20:44:10<+discordbot5> normally 3 20180604 20:44:15<+discordbot5> in standard wesnoth 20180604 20:44:24<+discordbot5> there's a lil group that can get to 4 20180604 20:44:34<+discordbot5> like general archmage 20180604 20:45:13<+discordbot5> making them stronger isn't really much different from me giving free exp 20180604 20:45:24<+discordbot5> since all puzzles are currently required 20180604 20:45:43<+discordbot5> some units can only get to lvl 2, like the javelineer 20180604 20:45:51<+discordbot5> or dread bat 20180604 20:45:55<+discordbot5> Also there are three Agelesses 20180604 20:45:56<+discordbot5> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/453298361651560468/unknown.png 20180604 20:46:02<+discordbot5> What's the difference 20180604 20:46:10<+discordbot5> Ageless Era uses lvl 2 leaders and lvl 1 units 20180604 20:46:11<+discordbot5> Sylph, Great Mage, (Grand Marshal) are the only ones in standard. 20180604 20:46:20<+discordbot5> Heroes is lvl 3 leaders (maybe lvl 4?) and lvl 2 units for recruiting 20180604 20:46:27<+discordbot5> RPG Era is leader only, no recruits, for RPG-style maps 20180604 20:46:31<+discordbot5> I'm still waiting for lich being able to become ancient lich 20180604 20:47:06<+discordbot5> It may be a case like Arcanister or Armagedon 20180604 20:47:19<+discordbot5> Where the line of progression is clear but the leveling is cut off. 20180604 20:47:54<+discordbot5> which I don't understand why is it the case 20180604 20:48:08<+discordbot5> I guess probably because they're too strong but idk 20180604 20:48:48<+discordbot5> realistically, it doesn't matter for many MP situations 20180604 20:49:05<+discordbot5> for campaigns and certain scenarios, the authors may decide to allow the advancement (e.g. in SotA) 20180604 20:55:50-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180604 21:02:55-!- ibispi [~quassel@188.246.34.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180604 21:11:23<+discordbot5> in a straight-up MP game, if you'd gotten enough experience on a single adept/sorcerer to reach ancient lich level, the other players should be dead. 20180604 21:16:27< Ravana_> it could be 200x200 map, or with 10% xp modifier 20180604 21:26:50<+discordbot5> If the acnient lich was enabled by default (in campaigns and everywhere) nobody would chose the other path again (or rather, it yould be a stupid and misleadingpath). And the other path is somehow cool 20180604 21:31:47<+discordbot5> Do people ever choose the silver mage, I wonder now? 20180604 21:32:07<+discordbot5> The Silver Mage is awesome but well, it is no Great Mage. 20180604 21:32:23<+discordbot5> (although I must say I really like the progression to Silver Mage - no beard - beard - no beard) 20180604 21:32:34<+discordbot5> me 20180604 21:32:52<+discordbot5> silver mage leaders are best 20180604 21:33:21<+discordbot5> Yes they are. 20180604 21:41:10<+discordbot5> obviously silver mages should promote into quicksilver mages 20180604 21:41:43<+discordbot5> Yes. 20180604 21:42:16<+discordbot5> give them something weird like... skirmisher? 😛 20180604 21:44:10<+discordbot5> .... is there anything more weird than teleport? 20180604 21:44:59<+discordbot5> One of my favourite quests in any campaign is the one where you fight 100 outlaws and the such with just 4 silver mages. 20180604 21:45:08<+discordbot5> weird for a mage, anyway. would be funny if our hypothetical t4 silver mage was even harder to pin down. 20180604 21:48:09<+discordbot5> Here's a funfact: Silver Mages beat Arch Mages in 1v1 20180604 22:14:39<+discordbot5> Is it intended that Liches are the only undead with traits? 20180604 22:14:55<+discordbot5> yes, they keep the personaility they had in life 20180604 22:15:26<+discordbot5> they went through a ritual to get spooky; they arent just some random bloke's bones or spirit bound and walking around 20180604 22:15:59<+discordbot5> skellingtons dont have free will really 20180604 22:18:18-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180604 22:21:48<+discordbot5> someone was bothered enough by it that they made a mod to remove the lich's old human traits, though. kind of an odd thing to fret over, IMO. 20180604 22:23:34-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180604 22:24:16<+discordbot5> Yeah. 20180604 22:24:48< Ravana_> its not particularly difficult to create simple modifications, I have implemented few requests from random people before when they seemed interesting 20180604 22:26:06< Ravana_> only "Ally Village Modification" was such request that I actually appreciated enough to keep maintaining it 20180604 23:02:57-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p2E5111C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.] 20180604 23:51:12-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:45c4:1ad6:318c:ea07] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180604 23:53:15<+discordbot5> Ally Village Modification? 20180604 23:53:21<+discordbot5> Is that not stealing villages from your allies, or something? 20180604 23:53:41-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth --- Log closed Tue Jun 05 00:00:52 2018