--- Log opened Thu Jun 07 00:00:57 2018 20180607 00:08:05-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20180607 00:23:37-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 00:38:05-!- gfgt [~androirc@134.76.63.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180607 01:08:50-!- gfgtdf [~gfgtdf@134.76.63.8] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180607 01:44:53-!- EliDupree [~quassel@2604:a880:400:d0::9bb:2001] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 20180607 01:45:59-!- EliDupree [~quassel@2604:a880:400:d0::9bb:2001] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 02:21:41<+discordbot5> .....tbh, I could have sworn that quote was a joke until reading the article. 20180607 04:14:11-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20180607 04:24:14-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20180607 05:34:24-!- gallaecio [~quassel@162.red-81-39-199.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 06:44:03-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 07:39:03-!- ibispi [~quassel@188.246.34.98] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 08:02:58<+discordbot5> Wesnoth is free so we got no pirates 20180607 08:12:55<+discordbot5> Lol well theres the mobile like... 20180607 08:13:07<+discordbot5> Mobile wesnoth packages cost money? 20180607 08:13:28<+discordbot5> Yes, the iOS version isn't free. 20180607 08:19:25<+discordbot5> ⚔ ☠ ⚔ 🇯🇵 🗓 20180607 08:19:32<+discordbot5> Pirate time!!! jk lol xD 20180607 08:26:41<+discordbot5> only distribution itself can be sold with the licence Wesnoth is on 20180607 08:26:45<+discordbot5> meaning you can legally pirate it 20180607 08:30:09-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 08:36:02< Soliton> you're probably talking about distribution of the source. naturally that is not what the ios app does. you can sell binaries just fine. 20180607 08:47:48<+discordbot5> Hmm, perhaps, I haven't heard about that distinction between source code and a compiled program to be important, rather than the distinction between selling the software itself and taking charges for its distribution. In any case, my point here was that anyone is legally allowed to copy and distribute ("pirate") Wesnoth for free. 20180607 08:49:18<+discordbot5> And that should also include iOS version, to my knowledge anyway. 20180607 09:09:37< Soliton> you can compile your own ios version, sure. 20180607 09:35:49<+discordbot5> I think you can actually also copy the compiled version, no need to compile it yourself. 20180607 09:38:23<+discordbot5> I checked the GNU GPL v2 since we started talking about it and it states it quite clearly. "3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form", in the same way as you can do so with the source code,. And I assume since at least parts of Wesnoth are licenced with GPL2, then any work containing those parts is subject of the same licencing. 20180607 09:39:48< Soliton> yeah, that might be legal from the GPL's point of view. not sure if the app store terms of service or so like it. 20180607 09:40:56<+discordbot5> if the author of the iOS version is distributing it not under the GPL licence, he is violating that license 20180607 09:42:17<+discordbot5> I have no idea what is the app store stance on those things, but I'm guessing you are right 20180607 09:43:08<+discordbot5> and to be clear, it's not as if I have any kind of an issue with anyone distributing Wesnoth on iOS and getting some money out of it, quite the opposite. Just discussing how I see the licencing side of it. 20180607 09:43:19< Soliton> my point was just to clarify that the GPL does not restrict selling, except somewhat the specific case of distributing the source code. 20180607 09:44:34<+discordbot5> yeah, that bit is a little unclear to me 20180607 09:44:49<+discordbot5> as it clearly states you can charge fees for distributing, but it doesn't really say much about selling the software itself 20180607 09:45:10<+discordbot5> and it allows anyone who receives the software to copy and distribute it as well 20180607 09:45:24<+discordbot5> and it demands tha tyou distribute the source code, of course 20180607 09:45:35<+discordbot5> GNU's point of view is probably that it's unlikely that anyone would even bother to attempt to sell the piece of software. 20180607 09:45:58<+discordbot5> After all, anyone can just compile the code and distribute the resulting binary for free. 20180607 09:46:40<+discordbot5> yeah, exactly 20180607 09:47:19<+discordbot5> what bothers me a tiny little bit is that sometimes people think they can just take GPL licenced resources and not put their resulting work in GPL licence 20180607 09:47:31<+discordbot5> and specifically, not give the source code ofit 20180607 09:48:37< Soliton> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html 20180607 09:54:09-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20180607 09:59:23-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180607 10:01:00-!- Smedles [~quassel@101.166.225.17] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 11:08:31-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 11:08:42<+discordbot5> yeah, note how it talks about charing for distribution 20180607 11:49:30-!- APic [apic@apic.name] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180607 12:23:45-!- APic [apic@apic.name] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 12:50:01-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 12:54:57-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20180607 13:33:30-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 13:44:29-!- ibispi [~quassel@188.246.34.98] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180607 14:37:01-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: mattsc] 20180607 15:00:20-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 15:11:46-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 15:29:33-!- ibispi [~quassel@188.246.34.98] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 15:35:08<+discordbot5> what does it mean if a game in the lobby shows the [S] or [C] in red? 20180607 15:36:20<+discordbot5> I thoight it means one has to download sth to join, but that's not necessary the case 20180607 15:45:10< Soliton> it means you do not have the scenario or campaign. depends on the scenario or campaign whether you need it in order to join. 20180607 15:45:33<+discordbot5> S = Scenario, C = Campaign (more than one scenario) 20180607 15:57:34<+discordbot5> I see. Thanks 20180607 15:58:07-!- behalebabo [~behalebab@unaffiliated/behalebabo] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20180607 15:59:15-!- behalebabo [~behalebab@unaffiliated/behalebabo] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 16:28:13-!- gallaecio [~quassel@162.red-81-39-199.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180607 16:31:14-!- gfgtdf [~gfgtdf@134.76.63.8] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 16:31:15-!- gfgtdf_ [~gfgtdf@134.76.63.8] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 16:31:45-!- gfgtdf [~gfgtdf@134.76.63.8] has quit [Client Quit] 20180607 16:46:41<+discordbot5> Charging a fee for distributing the software to you is basically the definition of selling software 20180607 16:48:12-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20180607 16:53:41-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 16:54:20<+discordbot5> There really is a difference between paying for distribution and paying for the right to use, which is the normal purchase. From practical point of view the difference means that you don't have to pay to be able to use the software. If you get it in some other way, you can use it. With normal commerce licences, you cannot. 20180607 16:54:46<+discordbot5> It also means that products using GPL cannot have any kind of lock on the software checking if you paid for it or not. 20180607 16:58:15<+discordbot5> Indeed there's a difference. None of those 2 things are really selling the software 20180607 16:59:13<+discordbot5> But, commonly, buying software is paying the fee for it to be distributed to you legaly so the license can apply 20180607 17:00:22<+discordbot5> Distribution is one thing, right to use is another. Normally you pay for both things. GPL only allows fee for distribution. 20180607 17:00:31<+discordbot5> If its free to obtain it but later you have additional fees for usage normally its considered "free to play" 20180607 17:01:14<+discordbot5> Free to obtain but not being able to use at all ia not very common 20180607 17:01:35<+discordbot5> I don't think we understand each other. 20180607 17:01:59<+discordbot5> All I'm saying is according to GPL you cannot charge fee for the use of the software. You can charge a fee for distributing that software. 20180607 17:02:59<+discordbot5> yes 20180607 17:03:25<+discordbot5> And "selling the software itself" is closer to being the distribution part than anything else 20180607 17:04:14<+discordbot5> Ok, so you argue what is the common understanding of the term "selling software". That's something I don't really want to oppose, it was not my point to make definiton of that phraze. 20180607 17:05:28<+discordbot5> Also note that shareware is a good example of free distribution, but paid usage. 20180607 17:07:33<+discordbot5> Shareware is the "free to play" of non-game software 20180607 17:08:09<+discordbot5> Shareware was the free to play of games before free to play was invented. 20180607 17:11:41< aeth> shareware was generally, "here's Episode I, pay for Episodes II-VI" and dividing the levels into episodes, or something 20180607 17:11:50< aeth> e.g. that's literally how it worked in Wolfenstein 3D 20180607 17:13:02< aeth> Closer to a long demo than most of today's free to play (but some free to play games are like that, where you just buy more levels) 20180607 17:13:35<+discordbot5> yeah, but the whole product was already delivered 20180607 17:13:38<+discordbot5> you had to pay to unlock it 20180607 17:13:47<+discordbot5> and it's IMHO completely different to free-to-play 20180607 17:14:07< aeth> In shareware? I don't think so, or else piracy would be too easy (they were concerned about pirates back then, too) 20180607 17:14:12<+discordbot5> which, well, can be completely free and can contain elements that ruin gameplay (or not, depends on the design) 20180607 17:14:23< aeth> The whole game was there except for the levels you would need to pay for 20180607 17:14:31<+discordbot5> I'm very sure it was. 20180607 17:15:38<+discordbot5> well, it probably depended on the specific product, but in general it was not so easy to deliver the rest of the product, internet was not cheap then 20180607 17:26:38-!- sigurdfd [sigurdfd@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 18:06:08-!- sigurdfd [sigurdfd@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has quit [] 20180607 18:45:27-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 18:56:45-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180607 18:59:40-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 19:10:35<+discordbot5> <覗き魔> so 1.14.3 is coming soon? and i will have to download the entire thing to update again? :run: 20180607 19:12:22<+discordbot5> if you use Steam, it updates automatically 20180607 19:13:12<+discordbot5> I'm not sure if there are any automated ways of updating outside of Steam 20180607 19:29:06<+discordbot5> steam downloads only changed files on update 20180607 19:29:19<+discordbot5> flatpak downloads diffs too 20180607 19:58:40-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180607 19:58:46-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 20:24:22-!- behalebabo [~behalebab@unaffiliated/behalebabo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20180607 20:28:46-!- behalebabo [~behalebab@unaffiliated/behalebabo] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 20:38:07-!- HeyCitizen [HeyCitizen@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/heycitizen] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20180607 20:40:50-!- HeyCitizen [~HeyCitize@sttrpq3809w-lp130-03-67-68-202-204.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 20:42:42-!- HeyCitizen_ [HeyCitizen@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/heycitizen] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 20:45:21-!- HeyCitizen [~HeyCitize@sttrpq3809w-lp130-03-67-68-202-204.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20180607 20:45:21-!- metaverse [~metaverse@unaffiliated/metaverse] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 20:52:21-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180607 20:57:35-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180607 20:57:41-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 21:01:08-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Converse confortabelmente. En calquera parte.] 20180607 21:15:04-!- ibispi [~quassel@188.246.34.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180607 22:47:25-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180607 22:47:32-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180607 23:07:43<+discordbot5> I'll try asking in here as well 👋 In abilities, "other" refers to the one with the ability, right? Is it the same for traits? Like if I'm making a trait do different things depending on the trait holder's whatever, is "other" what I should use to access the trait holder? 20180607 23:38:16< zookeeper> that sounds like a very confused question 20180607 23:38:55<+discordbot5> I mean within the definition of a trait, would other.X access the trait holder's X? 20180607 23:39:16<+discordbot5> Or what key should I use to access the trait holder? 20180607 23:39:23< zookeeper> no. where are you getting this stuff from? 20180607 23:40:14<+discordbot5> For instance, looking at the default abilities.cfg, the leadership value is value="(25 * (level - other.level))" 20180607 23:40:32< zookeeper> ohh, formulas. 20180607 23:40:32<+discordbot5> Other being the ability holder? 20180607 23:41:27< zookeeper> yeah, i know next to nothing about the formula API, but naturally "other" means the other unit. 20180607 23:41:36<+discordbot5> I suppose that's it, sorry for my poorly formulated question 😦 20180607 23:42:10<+discordbot5> Aye, me neither. Trying to figure out if, within a trait definition, "other" would apply to the trait holder, just like "other" seems to apply to the ability holder like in above example 20180607 23:42:39< zookeeper> it refers to the other unit. 20180607 23:42:51<+discordbot5> Oh wait, yeah, I have it backwards 20180607 23:43:03<+discordbot5> Hmm. 20180607 23:46:08<+discordbot5> --scratches head-- 20180607 23:54:44< gfgtdf_> you cannot use 'other' in traits, (except trais that aadd abilities where it would have the usual meaning in abilities) 20180607 23:55:45-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180607 23:57:38<+discordbot5> I see. Which keys are usable within traits, then? I'm guessing something like self doesn't exist? 20180607 23:58:43< gfgtdf_> where exacty, or rther, what do you want do do ? --- Log closed Fri Jun 08 00:00:00 2018