--- Log opened Fri Jun 08 00:00:00 2018 20180608 00:01:31<+discordbot5> I have function set up that applies an IPF to the target, by sending a value to the function (TEAM_COLOR_IPF) [effect] apply_to=image_mod add={TEAM_COLOR_IPF any_value_between_1_and_9} [/effect] I'm trying to have the trait itself use the very same function by sending the trait holder's side value to the function, but I can't figure out which key to use [effect] apply_to=image_mod add={TEAM_COLOR_IPF $key.side} 20180608 00:01:31<+discordbot5> [/effect] 20180608 00:01:37<+discordbot5> If that makes any sense 20180608 00:04:04-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180608 00:13:02< gfgtdf_> hm ye you currently cannot acces the unit like you can n abiliies, you probably have to define a cutom effect in lua via wesnoth.effects 20180608 00:14:14-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 00:15:20<+discordbot5> Ahh, I see. I've no idea how to do that, however. I'm gonna keep at it some more, otherwise I'll go about this another way (like via an object). 20180608 00:15:38<+discordbot5> Just figured it'd be smoother to have it done via a trait 20180608 01:10:45-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180608 01:10:51-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 01:12:16-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 01:32:24-!- gfgtdf_ [~gfgtdf@134.76.63.8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180608 02:47:34<+discordbot5> Yeah, couldn't figure out how to do what I want via a trait definition, so I got it done via an object instead. 20180608 02:59:00< celticminstrel> Traits and objects are basically the same thing, only difference being that traits are shown in the sidebar. 20180608 02:59:56< celticminstrel> And only objects work directly as ActionWML, traits would need to be placed in [unit] or [modify_unit], or defined in a race or unit type. 20180608 03:00:54< celticminstrel> But if you don't want it shown on the sidebar, or if it's not something that all units of a particular type or race are supposed to have, then there's no reason to do a trait rather than an object. 20180608 03:01:55<+discordbot5> Yeah, I just couldn't make my IPF function work properly when used within the trait definition itself, so I simply made use of an object instead. All good. Just wanted to experiment a bit with traits 😃 20180608 03:02:15< celticminstrel> Eh? 20180608 03:02:36< celticminstrel> I can't think of any reason why something like this would work in an object but not in a trait? 20180608 03:04:24<+discordbot5> I just couldn't find the correct key to store the trait holder's team color, when working within the trait definition 20180608 03:05:31< celticminstrel> ...you've lost me now... 20180608 03:07:29<+discordbot5> This doesn't seem to work within a trait, for example [store_side] side=$side_number variable=tmp_side_number [/store_side] If it had, I could just send $tmp_side_number.color to my IPF function 20180608 03:07:45< celticminstrel> ... 20180608 03:07:52<+discordbot5> :S 20180608 03:08:02< celticminstrel> Well yeah, that's ActionWML, it only works in an event. 20180608 03:08:12< celticminstrel> (Or a menu item.) 20180608 03:09:25<+discordbot5> Well, that explains it 😄 So, yeah, I just couldn't figure out how to, within the trait definition, send the trait holder's teamcolor to the IPF function, which is why I did the whole thing via an object instead. 20180608 03:09:28<+discordbot5> And that's about it 😃 20180608 03:10:20< celticminstrel> If it's in a filter you can probably do something with $this_unit or a formula, otherwise... it might actually be something you can't do in a trait after all... at least not without Lua. 20180608 03:11:52<+discordbot5> I filtering using $this_unit as well, but couldn't make it work. 20180608 03:12:21<+discordbot5> But it's all good. End result is the same, using an object. Was just curious 😃 20180608 03:12:21<+discordbot5> ❤ 20180608 03:12:55< celticminstrel> Well, if it doesn't need to be shown on the sidebar (and isn't race/unit-type specific) there's no real reason to use a trait anyway. 20180608 03:15:36<+discordbot5> I still kept the trait, but it's a dummy trait, just so t hat it shows up on the sidebar -- having the actual effects done via an object 20180608 03:15:53<+discordbot5> And using the trait via events, too 20180608 03:23:13< celticminstrel> Oh I see. 20180608 03:26:34< celticminstrel> What exactly were you trying to do, again? 20180608 03:26:41< celticminstrel> Like the end result. 20180608 03:29:50-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20180608 03:32:57<+discordbot5> I have a IPF function that receives a unit's teamcolor string, turns it into rgb values and then via a formula sets an actual IPF on target unit 20180608 03:33:27<+discordbot5> Kind of like the sepia function, but for team colors instead 20180608 03:34:00< celticminstrel> That's kinda vague... 20180608 03:35:08<+discordbot5> It is? I thought it was quite explanatory 😮 20180608 03:36:10<+discordbot5> Like how t he sepia function turns an image brown-greyish, my function turns an image teamcoloredish 20180608 03:36:35<+discordbot5> Yeah the original description confused me as well. 20180608 03:36:43<+discordbot5> Sorry D: 20180608 03:36:56<+discordbot5> The problem is sepia isn't as restrictive as magenta TC. 20180608 03:37:05<+discordbot5> The latter is like 10 colours I think? 20180608 03:37:26< celticminstrel> Okay. I sort of get it a little, I think. 20180608 03:37:47<+discordbot5> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/454489190965444609/magenta-palette.png 20180608 03:38:03<+discordbot5> Those colours. Count them for me, I can't count past 2. 🙃 20180608 03:38:14< celticminstrel> I think about 20? 20180608 03:38:16<+discordbot5> Yeah, I've separately also been trying create a function that somehow sepiafies an image without touching magenta colored pixels.. but nope 20180608 03:38:22< celticminstrel> Probably 19 actually. 20180608 03:38:51< celticminstrel> It's definitely possible to do. 20180608 03:38:59<+discordbot5> I would -love- to know how 20180608 03:39:00<+discordbot5> The magenta palette isn't well-suited for general purposes though. 20180608 03:39:01< celticminstrel> So when you say you're using a formula, do you mean ~CHAN()? 20180608 03:39:25<+discordbot5> Yes, ~CHAN(formula, formula, formula) 20180608 03:39:35<+discordbot5> And in those formulas I calculate new values, just like the sepia function does 20180608 03:39:51<+discordbot5> (I.e. there's a reason I generally avoid large amounts of TC in my sprites, unless they're restricted to one end of the spectrum.) 20180608 03:40:02< celticminstrel> The only way I can think of to avoid changing magenta pixels is... 20180608 03:40:24< celticminstrel> 1. First, figure out the RGB values of the magenta pixels, and stuff them into a WFL list. 20180608 03:41:06< celticminstrel> 2. Use the if() function to return the existing RGB value if you discover that it matches one of the known magenta values. 20180608 03:41:17< celticminstrel> It would be messy, 20180608 03:42:05<+discordbot5> The magenta RGB values are already available in team-colors.cfg, are they not? I used those values and checked against them in my if functions, but I couldn't get it right 20180608 03:42:17<+discordbot5> I got like halfway there, but my brain started melting, lol 20180608 03:43:25< celticminstrel> I forget, do you refer to them as r, g, b or red, green, blue... 20180608 03:43:49<+discordbot5> In IPF functions? red, green, blue 20180608 03:43:59<+discordbot5> In IPF, rather 20180608 03:44:03<+discordbot5> Or what do you mean 20180608 03:44:11< celticminstrel> Yeah, that's what I meant. 20180608 03:44:22<+discordbot5> Ah. Yeah. 20180608 03:46:59<+discordbot5> It's easy enough to make a function that changes the IPF to sepia, using these values https://software.intel.com/sites/default/files/article/346220/sepiafilter-intelcilkplus.pdf, but I couldn't optimally make it ignore magenta pixels 20180608 03:47:20<+discordbot5> And at that point I had been at it for the better part of a day, and just threw it all 20180608 03:47:23<+discordbot5> 😐 20180608 03:48:29< celticminstrel> ~CHAN() probably isn't optimal in any case as it's functionally like a fragment shader run on the CPU. 20180608 03:48:49< celticminstrel> (I hope in 1.16 that'll be moved to the GPU, but who knows.) 20180608 03:49:02 * celticminstrel is trying to write this now. >_> 20180608 03:49:10<+discordbot5> Yeah the function did make the game stutter for a bit, for sure 20180608 03:49:28<+discordbot5> Oh you are? I'd very much like to see what you come up with, to sepiafy an image while retaining the magenta pixels ❤ 20180608 03:52:40< celticminstrel> Completely untested, but here's what I came up with: https://pastebin.com/dVAqdeJF 20180608 03:52:53< celticminstrel> That's just for red, the blue and green ones would be almost identical though. 20180608 03:53:13< celticminstrel> (Just change both instances of "red" on line 5 to "blue" or "green".) 20180608 03:53:31< celticminstrel> Not entirely sure if I got the logic right TBH. 20180608 03:54:01< celticminstrel> Part of the reason it's messy is that the function and magenta definitions are duplicated. 20180608 03:56:00<+discordbot5> Hmm. I did my function completely in WML, and I have little to no experience using Lua, so I'm not sure how to edit and implement Lua code -- at this moment :/ 20180608 03:56:40< celticminstrel> That's not Lua. 20180608 03:56:48< celticminstrel> That's the formula that goes inside ~CHAN() 20180608 03:57:07<+discordbot5> Oh, that's WFL? 20180608 03:57:17< celticminstrel> Yup. 20180608 03:57:25< celticminstrel> Might need to enclose it in parentheses for it to work. 20180608 03:57:49< celticminstrel> Though I think the IPF is smart enough to distinguish nested commas from the toplevel ones. 20180608 03:58:08<+discordbot5> (I noticed the new issue you opened, btw. Completely support it! 😄 Being able to access palettes and ranges would be so sweeet) 20180608 03:58:23< celticminstrel> (Actually def f() might not be allowed inside parentheses.) 20180608 03:59:00< celticminstrel> But again, it's untested and I'm not confident in it; still, you might be able to get something working based on it, though. 20180608 03:59:18< celticminstrel> Oh, whoops. It's -> not => 20180608 03:59:24< celticminstrel> According to the wiki at least. 20180608 03:59:36< celticminstrel> I probably should've checked that first. And you need single quotes not double. 20180608 03:59:51<+discordbot5> --scratches head-- 20180608 04:00:55< celticminstrel> Fixed the obvious syntax errors: https://pastebin.com/8We0zG2M 20180608 04:01:02< celticminstrel> So is something confusing you? 20180608 04:02:24< celticminstrel> I might be using something undocumented there, actually... 20180608 04:02:57< celticminstrel> Pretty sure a.blue is the same as a['blue'] but that's not mentioned anywhere on the wiki that I can see. 20180608 04:03:14< celticminstrel> (When a is a map, at least, it won't be the same if a is some other object.) 20180608 04:03:39< celticminstrel> Ohh, it is mentioned. 20180608 04:03:55< celticminstrel> Almost missed it. 20180608 04:06:16< celticminstrel> So do you need me to explain something in there? 20180608 04:06:26<+discordbot5> Still wrapping my head around your formula(s) there 20180608 04:06:43<+discordbot5> (I haven't used them to any greater extents yet) 20180608 04:07:27< celticminstrel> Oh that bold text in the section on functions is outdated, huh... 20180608 04:07:42< celticminstrel> Do you have particular questions about the formulas? 20180608 04:08:44<+discordbot5> Well 20180608 04:11:38<+discordbot5> I'm not sure what the color_equals definition actually does, nor how I'm supposed to insert the formula for sepia into the sepia definition, especially since the sepia formula is different for each output (red output, green output and blue output, that is) 20180608 04:13:21< celticminstrel> Ah. 20180608 04:13:38< celticminstrel> Well you could write make_color(red formula, green formula, blue formula) 20180608 04:13:55< celticminstrel> Or... 20180608 04:14:30< celticminstrel> You could do def sepia_red(self*) ...; in the red formula, and lose the .red on line 5; and similarly in the blue and green formulas. 20180608 04:14:47< celticminstrel> So line 5 would then end in sepia_red(self)) 20180608 04:15:11< celticminstrel> color_equals is literally testing if two colours have the same RGB values. 20180608 04:17:47<+discordbot5> I'm somewhat overwhelmed at the moment, hehe, so you'll have to excuse me 😃 I'm still not clear how most of the functions in WFL work, so it might take me a while to process all this 20180608 04:17:53<+discordbot5> I really appreciate your help, however! 20180608 04:17:55-!- HeyCitizen_ is now known as HeyCitizen 20180608 04:18:16< celticminstrel> reduce() is kinda a bit advanced, too. >_> 20180608 04:18:34<+discordbot5> Yeah I'm looking at that function in the wiki atm 20180608 04:19:48< celticminstrel> I need to get to bed but if you're around tomorrow you can ask more stuff... 20180608 04:20:29<+discordbot5> Oh, I will most likely have further questions, haha sweat 20180608 04:20:35<+discordbot5> Sleep tight 😃 20180608 04:22:28-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20180608 04:31:48-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 05:26:40-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Converse confortabelmente. En calquera parte.] 20180608 05:58:20-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180608 05:58:26-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 06:13:14-!- gallaecio [~quassel@4.red-81-39-199.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 06:19:12<+discordbot5> celticminstrel: I tried modifying your code to include the sepia function (via 3 separate functions, one for each channel (red, green, blue)), and put it to the test.. but it's not working. The game froze for almost a minute, however, hehe, while doing the calculations. I'm very new to WFL and WML in general, so maybe I made some serious mistakes in the code. Have a look whenever you have time https://pastebin.com/wdV5J2Bd 20180608 06:25:24-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 06:34:22-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180608 06:34:28-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 07:51:39-!- Soo_Slow [~devnu11@ppp91-122-165-69.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 08:02:25-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180608 08:06:26-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 08:13:54-!- Smedles_ [~quassel@58.174.174.100] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 08:17:44-!- Smedles [~quassel@101.166.225.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180608 08:17:45-!- ibispi [~quassel@188.246.34.98] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 09:06:55-!- Soo_Slow [~devnu11@ppp91-122-165-69.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Quit: Soo_Slow] 20180608 09:07:36-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 09:09:34-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180608 09:10:00-!- discordbot5 [~discordbo@baldras.wesnoth.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180608 09:10:27-!- discordbot1 [~discordbo@baldras.wesnoth.org] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 09:10:30-!- mode/#wesnoth [+v discordbot1] by ChanServ 20180608 09:17:23<+discordbot1> What would be the best order to play IftU, AtS and Genesis? My understand is that the order I just wrote (Genesis being the most difficult and latest, even though it's a prequel?). Or they are more independed of each other? 20180608 09:18:32<+discordbot1> I think that order works. Although I have a feeling that you can play Genesis independently of the other two and it'll work as a self-contained thing (I don't know exactly how @Yumi feels about this). 20180608 09:19:16<+discordbot1> I can at least say with absolute certainty that AtS doesn't make sense without playing IftU first. 20180608 09:21:08<+discordbot1> I see. And could you say more or less when IftU will be ready for 1.14? If it's a matter of a day or two (as opposed to a week or two or more), I'm going to wait. 20180608 09:21:56<+discordbot1> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=43309&start=105#p629548 20180608 09:22:45<+discordbot1> I need to sort out some administrative stuff between IftU AtS and Naia before I can properly release IftU. 20180608 09:23:04<+discordbot1> Almost all of it has to do with translations. 20180608 09:23:35<+discordbot1> (And also the IftU 2.1.0 changelog, which I haven't even written because I decided to be unusually disorganized this time around.) 20180608 09:25:08<+discordbot1> @Pentarctagon yeah, I voted already :p. Just didn't know what kind of timeframe we are talking about. 20180608 09:25:56<+discordbot1> Anyway, thank you for info. I think I'll just start Genesis. 20180608 09:32:04<+discordbot1> Genesis has you start with two Mal Keshar tier units 20180608 09:32:26<+discordbot1> all kinds of red flags difficulty wise, if they gave you those OP guys you'll need them :run: 20180608 09:36:21<+discordbot1> yeah, Yumi mentioned it's difficult 20180608 09:37:03<+discordbot1> and for the record, the introduction says that playing IftU and AtS before Genesis may be useful, but not necessary 20180608 09:39:00<+discordbot1> Yeah it's like when you enter a room and you see ammo and healing all over the place. 20180608 09:39:12<+discordbot1> You know something bad is just about to happen and you'll need it all. 20180608 09:39:52<+discordbot1> Gameplay-wise, Genesis is very different from my campaigns in general (those two play more like vanilla Wesnoth for the most part). 20180608 09:44:53-!- ibispi [~quassel@188.246.34.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180608 09:50:13<+discordbot1> hmm, is it something I did last night or it's not possible to switch themes in Genesis? 20180608 09:51:43<+discordbot1> yeah, it seems to be Genesis thing, it seems to be forcing default-like theme. @Yumi, is it intended that Genesis cannot be used with custom themes? 20180608 09:52:40<+discordbot1> That sounds really odd. If it's making use of theme-switching Yumi should look into changing to theme="" to go back to the user's choice. 20180608 09:56:10<+discordbot1> Hmm, stupid question. Neither the recruit window nor the in-game help seem to specify the unit alignment. Is that true or I'm missing something? Is there a way to see unit's alignment before you recruit it? 20180608 09:56:45<+discordbot1> It's an icon. 20180608 09:56:47<+discordbot1> ah no, I'm wrong 20180608 09:56:48<+discordbot1> yes, thanks 20180608 09:56:53<+discordbot1> never really paid attention toit 20180608 09:57:00<+discordbot1> (And the help does include it in text.) 20180608 09:57:23<+discordbot1> ok, it's official, I am blind :d 20180608 10:04:57-!- gfgtdf [~gfgtdf@134.76.63.8] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 10:06:57< gfgtdf> @shadowm : it's not the purging that is the problem, we can easiyl do that part in the whtever thread we want it's simply accessing the cache hy how a cahe works every image::get_image call might change those static variables and as explained in the pr the worker thread need to call it in multiple cases. 20180608 10:07:13<+discordbot1> You're in the wrong chat. 20180608 10:43:16-!- sevu [~Shiki@p54854C5A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 10:47:35-!- ibispi [~quassel@188.246.34.98] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 11:19:37-!- sevu [~Shiki@p54854C5A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20180608 11:52:28<+discordbot1> 🤔 20180608 11:52:35<+discordbot1> I have a question tho 20180608 11:52:44<+discordbot1> can you guys add a look for games sub channel 20180608 11:53:16<+discordbot1> since we got mod, dev channel, even several languages 20180608 12:03:54-!- gallaecio [~quassel@4.red-81-39-199.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180608 12:21:21-!- gfgtdf [~gfgtdf@134.76.63.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20180608 12:22:54-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 12:24:57-!- gfg [~androirc@tmo-107-125.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 12:57:37-!- gfg [~androirc@tmo-107-125.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180608 12:57:47-!- Soo_Slow [~devnu11@ppp91-122-158-215.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 13:16:35-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180608 13:29:36-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 14:08:06-!- gfg [~androirc@tmo-107-125.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 14:34:38-!- newbieee [5f6be20d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.107.226.13] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 14:34:41< newbieee> h 20180608 14:34:43< newbieee> hi 20180608 14:34:53< newbieee> i wannna play 20180608 14:34:56< newbieee> multiplayer 20180608 14:58:44-!- gfg [~androirc@tmo-107-125.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20180608 15:02:22<+discordbot1> How long do the 1v1 multiplayer matches usually last? 20180608 15:02:26-!- gfg [~androirc@tmo-107-125.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 15:02:46<+discordbot1> And how good should I be before going into multiplayer? 20180608 15:13:31<+discordbot1> There are a lot of different maps and they all t ake different amount of time to fnish. The very popular map Isar's Cross, is a small and unbalanced 2v2 map that I'd estimate takes 10-30 minutes to play (off the top of my head). If you play 1v1 matches, they can take well over an hour, but they can be finished in 10 minutes as well. It all depends on who you're playing with, and who you yourself plays. 20180608 15:13:59<+discordbot1> And you don't need to b e particularly good to start playing multiplayer. The more you play vs humans, the better you get 20180608 15:14:41<+discordbot1> Sorry for all the typos, lol 20180608 15:15:14<+discordbot1> Cool thank! I was a bit afraid that matches drag out to a couple of hours like they do in other turn based games 20180608 15:15:26<+discordbot1> Lol np it happens to everyone 20180608 15:16:02<+discordbot1> without a timer or with long timer they can drag a bit, especially 2v2, as then you are waiting for 3 other people to play 20180608 15:16:31<+discordbot1> but usually Isar's Cross has a timer set up and the map is very small, which is why it is popular 20180608 15:18:18<+discordbot1> Hmm I might try it out when the exam season ends... Been playing single player on and off for two years now, it's about time I dipped into multiplayer 20180608 15:18:28<+discordbot1> A lot of people joiin in on the Isar train and seem to get stuck playing only Isar, which is a shame 20180608 15:19:34<+discordbot1> there is also some kind of UMC special thing always popular 20180608 15:19:41<+discordbot1> long time ago it was rumble 20180608 15:19:46<+discordbot1> now I haven't seen them at all 20180608 15:19:56<+discordbot1> but there are some survival games running usually 20180608 15:21:09<+discordbot1> I used to play lots of Top Scrolling Wesnoth with some friends, but they're not playing anymore (or not lately, at least). Pretty enjoyable, if you have time on your hands 20180608 15:21:10<+discordbot1> 👌 20180608 15:23:07<+discordbot1> are the desktop notifications working for you correctly? For me it seems only the notification about game start works 20180608 15:23:17<+discordbot1> but I don't get one when my turn starts 20180608 15:27:15<+discordbot1> Works for me 20180608 15:27:43<+discordbot1> I usually don't alt-tab while actually playing, however (but they do work, nonetheless) 20180608 15:27:52<+discordbot1> There are some notification settings, too, if I'm not mistaken 20180608 15:27:57<+discordbot1> @Landiss don't forget UtBS too 20180608 15:28:10<+discordbot1> already finished it 20180608 15:28:12<+discordbot1> @Landiss I'm going to release another patch for my campaign shortly (like in a couple days) 20180608 15:28:22<+discordbot1> after I finish animating these spritea 20180608 15:28:48<+discordbot1> it also includes balancing changes, but those will be unplaytested 20180608 15:29:15<+discordbot1> what difficulty are you playing on? 20180608 15:29:45<+discordbot1> normal 20180608 15:29:48<+discordbot1> but I'm going to start over 20180608 15:30:16<+discordbot1> I only got to the second mission so far, but I realized I should have grinded exp in the first mission and not finish it as soon as possible 20180608 15:30:32<+discordbot1> Finishing as soon as possible is grinding gold. 20180608 15:30:45<+discordbot1> Kind of depends on campaign whether or not that is a cardinal sin, however. 20180608 15:30:49<+discordbot1> yeah, and that doesn't seem to be the good strategy for the second scenario 20180608 15:30:59<+discordbot1> talking about Genesis 20180608 15:31:19<+discordbot1> What Era? 20180608 15:32:10<+discordbot1> I have no idea 20180608 15:32:32<+discordbot1> it has its own era 20180608 15:32:39<+discordbot1> I don't grind exp in the first scenario 20180608 15:32:43<+discordbot1> personally 20180608 15:33:05<+discordbot1> In a lot of campaigns the early finish bonus is quite big. 20180608 15:34:44<+discordbot1> well, then I don't know how to go past the second scenario if enemy has lost of skirmishers and just 2 of them can kill my main hero unit 20180608 15:35:23<+discordbot1> I guess I could try recruiting dozens of units to protect the heroes 20180608 15:35:55<+discordbot1> but I thought it would be better idea to level up the main heroes at least once in the first scenario 20180608 15:36:24<+discordbot1> I get them close to leveling, but don't actually level them 20180608 15:36:52<+discordbot1> Ah, the prostrat through which you can win Arena with 6 soulless. 20180608 15:37:00<+discordbot1> Can't wait for Arena to be ported over to the new version... 20180608 15:39:29<+discordbot1> so, Yumi, how many units you recruit at the beginning of the second scenario? 20180608 15:40:07<+discordbot1> More units = win faster = more money = more units, right? 20180608 15:41:28<+discordbot1> Not really, that scenario is about moving to the opposite side of the map and the enemy spawn units from the sides constantly, more units do not necessarily speed up your progress 20180608 15:41:49<+discordbot1> on hard, 10 20180608 15:42:16<+discordbot1> hmm that's on the new version tho 20180608 15:42:36<+discordbot1> old version it was better to just deplete your gold at the start 20180608 15:43:02<+discordbot1> new version being the one not released yet 20180608 16:00:51-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180608 16:00:57-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 16:02:12-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180608 16:07:44-!- gfg [~androirc@tmo-107-125.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180608 16:07:50-!- gfg [~androirc@tmo-107-125.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 16:07:51-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Converse confortabelmente. En calquera parte.] 20180608 16:13:50-!- DeFender [~DeFender1@89-138-13-24.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Quit: I'm not back now.] 20180608 16:19:36<+discordbot1> ok, I see 20180608 16:23:58-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 16:31:29-!- marmistrz [marmistrz@faris.wolf480.pl] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 16:31:45< marmistrz> Hi! I must say I'm surprised how stupid the AI was during the Linaera the Quick scenario 20180608 16:31:52< marmistrz> I have defeated it in 5 turns. 20180608 16:31:58< marmistrz> on the hardest level 20180608 16:32:40< marmistrz> because their chieftain has left its fortress, just so that it can be slain by my sharpshooter (lvl3), marshal(lvl3) and sorceress(lvl2) 20180608 16:32:46< Soliton> the ai is rarely smarter on more difficult levels. it just has more resources. 20180608 16:34:33< marmistrz> Soliton, I just mean: sending your lvl2 (?) chieftain where it can be easily surrounded by 2 lvl3 units (and 2 more lvl2 units) is not a good idea. 20180608 16:34:41< marmistrz> this may be another heuristic to be added to the AI. 20180608 16:35:21<+discordbot1> It didn't know you had those units 20180608 16:35:49< marmistrz> Nyvrem, the map is fully discovered in this map 20180608 16:36:21< marmistrz> why wouldn't it not now? 20180608 16:36:39<+discordbot1> Not sure how the AI works in terms of knowing things. 20180608 16:37:16< Soliton> it does know. it's just easily excited to attack. 20180608 16:37:59< Soliton> maybe more so than before in 1.14. surely depends on the aggression settings in that scenario, too. 20180608 16:38:20< marmistrz> Well, this may be pretty compute-intensive, but it could could estimate the probabilities of being attacked by different units 20180608 16:38:34< marmistrz> and there's > 30% probability it'll die, then it won't proceed 20180608 16:38:37< marmistrz> e.g 20180608 16:38:42<+discordbot1> what is that scneario from? Isn't it a matter of settings the AI has? 20180608 16:38:52< marmistrz> Landiss, "Linaera the Quick" 20180608 16:39:02< marmistrz> if the AI is not a huuuge code, I may give it a try during the vacation 20180608 16:39:18<+discordbot1> but what is it exactly, a campaign, an add-on map? I can't find it 20180608 16:39:27< marmistrz> and try adding such heuristic 20180608 16:39:28<+discordbot1> anyway, I believe AI is already capable of the things you mention 20180608 16:39:32< Soliton> an orcisch incursion 20180608 16:41:06<+discordbot1> this is a novice level campaign, it might be done on purpose to be quite easy 20180608 16:41:07< marmistrz> I can upload the replay somewhere 20180608 16:41:18< marmistrz> Landiss, but it's on the hardest level :P 20180608 16:41:34<+discordbot1> yes, but hardest in a novice campaign is going to be probably easier than the lowest in a hard campaign 20180608 16:41:59<+discordbot1> nevertheless, I think it would be worthwile to write about it here: 20180608 16:42:00<+discordbot1> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewforum.php?f=41 20180608 16:42:16<+discordbot1> and the maintainer might do something about it 20180608 16:42:37< marmistrz> How much deterministic is the AI? 20180608 16:42:47< Soliton> i think it's a general change in ai behaviour to be more reckless with the leader. 20180608 16:43:02< Soliton> it's sometimes good sometimes bad. 20180608 16:44:01< marmistrz> I'm asking, because if it's somehow deterministic and if we decide that it's something worth improving, this could be an unit test 20180608 16:44:06< marmistrz> s/an/a/ 20180608 16:44:18<+discordbot1> I don't know 20180608 16:44:47< marmistrz> I'll write about it on the forum when I have a while. :) 20180608 17:07:43<+discordbot1> it looks to me like there is leader_agression value that can be set for the default AI, which can make the leader less (or more, I guess) aggressive, that is more or less willing to take risks 20180608 17:10:16<+discordbot1> and, to be clear, it's not altered in that specific scenario, meaning the default allows the leader to do what it did in your case 20180608 17:23:48<+discordbot1> Well, AI is basically one of the things that are hardest to make really good in any game 20180608 17:24:00<+discordbot1> Even AAA titles mostly have relatively crappy AI 20180608 17:25:55<+discordbot1> [Insert Civ 6 logo here] 20180608 17:33:18<+discordbot1> yeah, but I think Wesnoth AI is in general not that bad 20180608 17:35:29-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 17:41:42-!- gfg [~androirc@tmo-107-125.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180608 17:46:02-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20180608 18:13:31< newbieee> played my first human vs human game and won 20180608 18:13:49<+discordbot1> congrats 20180608 18:14:21< newbieee> :P 20180608 18:15:00-!- newbieee [5f6be20d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.107.226.13] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20180608 18:20:08-!- gfg [~androirc@tmo-107-125.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 18:31:16-!- gfgt [~androirc@x4e36341e.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 18:34:34-!- gfg [~androirc@tmo-107-125.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180608 18:34:54-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 18:36:21-!- gfgt [~androirc@x4e36341e.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20180608 18:42:05-!- behalebabo [~behalebab@unaffiliated/behalebabo] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20180608 18:42:23-!- behalebabo [~behalebab@unaffiliated/behalebabo] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 18:58:31< janebot> wesnoth: Doing the WML tutorial and its beautiful. I suppose it helps to have previous coding experience but it's really intuitive. (by /u/marshmalloe10) https://redd.it/8pmjsy 20180608 19:01:52<+discordbot1> @Lici_the_Crawler 20180608 19:02:12<+discordbot1> a typical wesnoth 1v1 can last roughly 30mins to an hour 20180608 19:02:15<+discordbot1> BUT 20180608 19:02:35<+discordbot1> there are always and highly frequent occasions to make it significantly longer 20180608 19:02:59<+discordbot1> for example, one player need to do something else, the two players would save and load it another day 20180608 19:05:57<+discordbot1> I once played a fairly epic game with Bast before in E v N 20180608 19:06:07<+discordbot1> we saved it 3 times, and played over a week to get over it 20180608 19:06:30<+discordbot1> my elves went to level 3 during the course slaughtering orcs and I ran out of gold for the upkeep 20180608 19:06:35<+discordbot1> 😂 20180608 19:06:47<+discordbot1> and died a week after 20180608 19:08:32<+discordbot1> because the save/load option in wesnoth, a match can technically last forever, if the matchup is well balanced 20180608 19:10:15<+discordbot1> cases as two factions are classical non-Lv0s, and players are of similar level, maintained a force that is sizeable enough to contain the RNG causualties 20180608 19:10:33<+discordbot1> so they constantly trade against each other add time and non stop 20180608 19:11:49<+discordbot1> I think historically longest matches are generally Knalgan mirrors, because it is sooooo hard to grab a kill if your investment and formation is legit 20180608 19:13:08<+discordbot1> but these are not the pragmatically longest games I have seen personally. Most probably because people would abandon the game or re when they saw dwarf mirrors 20180608 19:21:38-!- ToBeFree [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 19:43:25<+discordbot1> A lot of mirrors are suffering, but I must agree knalgan mirror is the most suffering. 20180608 19:45:19 * marmistrz has just gotten an idea to teach an AI using DNN from the online wesnoth matches :P 20180608 19:45:31 * marmistrz has neither experience in DNNs nor a powerful GPU :P 20180608 19:45:35-!- Soo_Slow [~devnu11@ppp91-122-158-215.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Quit: Soo_Slow] 20180608 19:46:01<+discordbot1> DNN? 20180608 19:48:36< marmistrz> Pentarctagon, deep neural networks 20180608 19:49:04<+discordbot1> there was a thread in the forums discussing such idea already 20180608 20:30:21<+discordbot1> @Flameheart wow that match sounds epic! My ide was to try out mp with some friend, but I also want to play vs strangers since I find the game quite fun in skirmish mode. Campaings are fun too but I get stuck at like mission 11/16 20180608 20:30:36<+discordbot1> which mission 20180608 20:30:41<+discordbot1> heir to the throne? 20180608 20:30:57<+discordbot1> I beat all campaign at negative luck 20180608 20:31:06<+discordbot1> even to S/L to make AI play better sometimes 20180608 20:31:10<+discordbot1> 😅 20180608 20:49:54-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180608 21:23:21<+discordbot1> anyone here play World Conquest? 20180608 21:23:26<+discordbot1> nightmare level, pro only 20180608 21:28:52-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 21:30:41-!- ToBeFree [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180608 21:52:47<+discordbot1> mages seem really good 🤔 20180608 21:54:21<+discordbot1> seems a bit weird to have them in the elf faction roster though 20180608 21:59:50<+discordbot1> you mean in default factions? 20180608 22:02:36<+discordbot1> I think they were included because otherwise rebels wouldn't have access to high defense counters at lvl1 20180608 22:03:05<+discordbot1> that is marksman or poison 20180608 22:07:33-!- ibispi [~quassel@188.246.34.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20180608 22:22:33-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20180608 22:27:34-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180608 22:27:40-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 22:31:08<+discordbot1> I looked around and saw that it was supposed to be fixed but I'm still pulling the "game has no sides" error on a custom map. Is there some spawn time or something I'm missing? 20180608 22:38:54-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180608 22:47:02-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 23:35:07-!- Smedles_ is now known as Smedles 20180608 23:53:11-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20180608 23:56:50< celticminstrel> Whee, weekend! --- Log closed Sat Jun 09 00:00:01 2018