--- Log opened Sat Jun 09 00:00:01 2018 20180609 00:04:23-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180609 00:38:40<+discordbot1> the rebels (elves) are basically the faction you play in Heir to the Throne, and you get mages very early on in that campaign. also, yeah, they wouldn't have a good answer to high-defense units, like... other elves in forests. 20180609 02:21:50< aeth> nah 20180609 02:22:05< aeth> unless you mean extremely early 20180609 03:26:30< aeth> HttT is all about recruiting tons of units 20180609 03:28:24<+discordbot1> Hi question so 20180609 03:28:36<+discordbot1> How did really good players on wesnoth come to become as good as they are? 20180609 03:28:52<+discordbot1> Did they just kind of learn the hard way and play a lot and gain tactical experience? 20180609 03:29:07<+discordbot1> They had milk and cereal as part of a balanced breakfast growing up. 😛 20180609 03:29:13<+discordbot1> Ummm 20180609 03:29:40<+discordbot1> (I don't know. I'm terrible and I've been playing for 13 years.) 20180609 03:30:05<+discordbot1> Oh, alright. Sorry for taking you the wrong way xD 20180609 03:31:06<+discordbot1> Paging @Yumi to explain exactly how one becomes "good" at Wesnoth. 20180609 03:31:38<+discordbot1> Well, :P xD 20180609 03:32:09<+discordbot1> I reckon it's a combination of unfaltering stubborness and a more numbers-oriented analytical mindset I don't have (because I'm allergic to numbers and my thing is logic, not numbers). 20180609 03:32:25<+discordbot1> Hmm 20180609 03:32:29<+discordbot1> As well as dedication. 20180609 03:32:30<+discordbot1> wesnoth is more numbers than logic? 20180609 03:32:32<+discordbot1> uhm 20180609 03:32:32<+discordbot1> interesting 20180609 03:32:34<+discordbot1> I'm not exactly good 20180609 03:32:37<+discordbot1> Probably? I don't know. 20180609 03:32:57<+discordbot1> well I'm okay at campaigns 20180609 03:32:58<+discordbot1> but not at MP 20180609 03:33:15<+discordbot1> It does involve a lot of numbers and I'm pretty sure the better you understand how they interact in practice, the better you're able to prepare for suboptimal battle outcomes. 20180609 03:33:26<+discordbot1> Especially at a micro scale. 20180609 03:33:27<+discordbot1> I don't count numbers when I play 20180609 03:33:56<+discordbot1> yeah it seems like understanding how the math interacts is something that requires experience 20180609 03:33:57<+discordbot1> e.g. "is it safe to let my Elvish Archer within reach of this Orcish Assassin? who will win if they don't miss any shots?" 20180609 03:34:05<+discordbot1> yeah lol 20180609 03:34:40<+discordbot1> so what I learned from EoZ the couple of games we played is 20180609 03:34:51<+discordbot1> first, you need to have your basics about positioning and zoning down 20180609 03:34:59<+discordbot1> MP and SP are the same 20180609 03:35:02<+discordbot1> Aha 20180609 03:35:05<+discordbot1> then for MP 20180609 03:35:11<+discordbot1> there is an added factor of you need to understand how to play each map 20180609 03:35:22<+discordbot1> for example he told me how to play on certain maps, e.g. you rush the center at the very start 20180609 03:35:22<+discordbot1> What I learned from Yumi the couple of games we played is that I should never be allowed to play against humans. 20180609 03:35:44<+discordbot1> or with drakes, you don't stand and fight 20180609 03:35:48<+discordbot1> but abuse their mobility with saurians 20180609 03:35:50<+discordbot1> hit and run 20180609 03:36:02<+discordbot1> Yeah I played against some veteran in some small closed map (forgot) and learned that nobody can win from attacking in the center of that map 20180609 03:36:06<+discordbot1> each map plays differently so to be the very best, you need to know how to play all of them with all 6 factions 20180609 03:36:08<+discordbot1> ._. 20180609 03:36:08<+discordbot1> unless the defender is a noob 20180609 03:36:14<+discordbot1> Hmm I see 20180609 03:36:32<+discordbot1> I'm afraid I don't have much more to offer than that because I don't know the MP maps very well 20180609 03:36:38<+discordbot1> [insert original pokemon theme tune here] 20180609 03:36:44<+discordbot1> Oh, this was great, thank you for this honestly 20180609 03:36:46<+discordbot1> most SP campaigns are no challenge though, since you can abuse the AI to no end 20180609 03:36:57<+discordbot1> :P 20180609 03:37:06<+discordbot1> a bit of experience and you can almost always predict how it will move, which is a great asset in planning your own moves 20180609 03:37:20<+discordbot1> like there is a "bug" right now where it will always attack a unit that's about to level up 20180609 03:37:32<+discordbot1> unless it has a very high chance of killing a nearby unit 20180609 03:37:40<+discordbot1> if you abuse that, you gain a free hex in a defense wall 20180609 03:37:47<+discordbot1> ooh 20180609 03:37:57<+discordbot1> many AI leaders will also just randomly run out to attack you if you get in their range 20180609 03:38:04<+discordbot1> and then immediately try to retreat to a nearby keep after 20180609 03:38:05<+discordbot1> lol 20180609 03:39:08<+discordbot1> one more is that units that are generally UP in MP may be very good in SP 20180609 03:39:23<+discordbot1> for example, spectres are amazing in campaigns, but ghosts are perhaps the worst level 1 unit (or among the worst) 20180609 03:41:01<+discordbot1> lol I love spectres :) 20180609 03:41:35<+discordbot1> most SP campaigns aren't too hard 20180609 03:41:53<+discordbot1> but if you do the "challenges", it helps to build your basics 20180609 03:42:11<+discordbot1> I see 20180609 03:42:19<+discordbot1> like if you do HttT with no losses, shaman line only, etc. 20180609 03:42:44<+discordbot1> I recall SotBE was decently difficult, but that's about it 20180609 03:42:54<+discordbot1> IftU can also present somewhat of a challenge on some levels 20180609 03:43:09<+discordbot1> it would be fun to code the challenges in like Rogue does 20180609 03:45:53<+discordbot1> It's great we're having this conversation because I just pointed out I don't want to entirely remove every way to cheese IftU. 20180609 03:46:34<+discordbot1> So yeah. I think replayability in this case comes from experimenting. 20180609 03:46:46<+discordbot1> (Or reading the text walls.) 20180609 03:48:24<+discordbot1> hmm true 20180609 03:48:31<+discordbot1> xPP 20180609 03:56:32<+discordbot1> sooo cute OwO!!! :) 20180609 03:56:33<+discordbot1> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/454856286304075786/7325.jpg 20180609 04:03:33-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180609 04:04:10-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 05:00:13-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20180609 05:01:04-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 06:11:56-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 06:25:25-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180609 06:25:31-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 07:07:50-!- ibispi [~quassel@188.246.34.98] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 07:46:22-!- Appleman1234_ [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 07:50:21<+discordbot1> I dont think elf faction ever need mage tho 20180609 07:50:28<+discordbot1> it is a weird design since first place, too 20180609 07:50:43-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20180609 07:58:58-!- metaverse [~metaverse@unaffiliated/metaverse] has left #wesnoth [] 20180609 08:02:40-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 08:07:27-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180609 08:07:28-!- gallaecio_ [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 08:19:42-!- Appleman1234_ is now known as Appleman1234 20180609 08:21:53<+discordbot1> rebels aren't elf faction 20180609 08:22:04<+discordbot1> it's just a ragtag bunch of misfits 😛 20180609 08:22:11<+discordbot1> of all races 20180609 08:22:15<+discordbot1> it contains mermen too 20180609 08:22:47<+discordbot1> It mostly maps to player forces in HttT 20180609 08:23:09-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 08:24:04<+discordbot1> and if rebels don't need mages then dwarves don't need rogues and bandits 😛 20180609 08:31:11-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180609 08:42:48-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 09:18:06<+discordbot1> guess we'll just take the dark adepts and bats off the undead, those guys haven't died yet. orcs can lose the trolls and goblins and wolves. drakes can drop the saurians. 20180609 09:19:22<+discordbot1> Well, another possibility would be to reskin the mage unit for the elves (not changing it's functionality, but the sprite etc.) 20180609 09:19:41<+discordbot1> and call... "Elven Mage" or something 20180609 09:22:39<+discordbot1> what @loonycyborg and I are trying to get at is that there isn't an 'elf' faction. there is a 'rebels' faction, and elves make up a substantial part of that faction, but that doesn't make it the 'elf' faction, and it doesn't have to have only elves. 20180609 09:24:50<+discordbot1> the weird thing is that the same unit is available for 2 factions, isn't it 20180609 09:26:53<+discordbot1> Oh, I understand the point. 20180609 09:27:22<+discordbot1> My thougts are more about "is it useful to have the rebel faction when HttT is not really as prevalent for Wesnoth as it used to be" 20180609 09:27:32<+discordbot1> and also, there are already elven mages, they are called sorceress :p 20180609 09:28:00<+discordbot1> honestly though, at this point redesigning factions for multiplayer seems like a really bad idea 20180609 09:28:11<+discordbot1> there has been several years of tuning and balancing 20180609 09:28:49<+discordbot1> That's why I'm talking about a visual/lore-redesign, not a mechanical one 20180609 09:30:20<+discordbot1> having 2 identical units that only look differently and are from different races would be bad IMHO 20180609 09:30:39<+discordbot1> every race has quite specific characteristics, not only in terms of lore, but of mechanics 20180609 09:30:45<+discordbot1> for example elves are better in forests 20180609 09:31:40<+discordbot1> one of those characteristics is typically the defences 20180609 09:31:51<+discordbot1> note that humans have 20% arcane damage resistance 20180609 09:32:57<+discordbot1> most elves seem to have -10% (vulnerability), althouh I have now noticed that the sorceress line gets better with each lvl up 20180609 10:05:08<+discordbot1> It's also worth noting that Elves are the only race who can get the Dextrous trait 20180609 10:05:59<+discordbot1> a dexterous mage would probably be a substantial improvement over most traits a human could get 20180609 10:06:20<+discordbot1> so even though you've changed nothing but the race, now the elves' mage is better (on average) 20180609 10:52:25<+discordbot1> That is a trait specific to magic users, they generally have a greater degree of magic resistance. 20180609 10:52:51<+discordbot1> human mages don't 20180609 10:53:00<+discordbot1> I mean specifically the arcane res 20180609 10:53:06<+discordbot1> Human mages gain fire res 20180609 10:53:12<+discordbot1> Yeah it is kind of mage specific 20180609 10:53:19<+discordbot1> Silver mages have 50% fire and 50% cold res 20180609 10:53:31<+discordbot1> no. 3 lines of human mage gain different res 20180609 10:53:36<+discordbot1> fire mage gain fire 20180609 10:53:45<+discordbot1> silver mage get 50% fire 50% cold 20180609 10:53:54<+discordbot1> arcane mage gain arcane up to 60% 20180609 10:54:00<+discordbot1> Huh, apparently dark adepts don't gain any res 20180609 10:54:11<+discordbot1> no, but they gain lot of HP dont they 20180609 10:54:14<+discordbot1> to compare humans 20180609 10:54:14<+discordbot1> Arcane mage? You mean white? 20180609 10:54:17<+discordbot1> yep 20180609 10:54:18<+discordbot1> ah, I forgot about the white mages 20180609 10:54:24<+discordbot1> 40% for white, 60% for light 20180609 10:54:48<+discordbot1> undead adept arguably gain res if you go lich 20180609 10:54:54<+discordbot1> but that resistence is terrible 20180609 10:55:18<+discordbot1> its weakness is bad as most undead, yet the advantage is thinner 20180609 10:55:21<+discordbot1> Depends on your enemy 20180609 10:55:45<+discordbot1> I think their armor might be a bug tho 20180609 10:55:46<+discordbot1> You do get more weaknesses than resistances, but Liches are also more powerful. 20180609 10:56:00<+discordbot1> back in 1.10's earlier versions, the DK has same res as Lich 20180609 10:56:07<+discordbot1> but they corrected DK as normal skeletons 20180609 10:56:12<+discordbot1> Lich didnt change 20180609 10:56:16<+discordbot1> maybe it is a bug I doubt 20180609 10:56:40<+discordbot1> we can submit a pull request and see how devs say 20180609 10:57:16<+discordbot1> Submit an issue report, you mean? 20180609 10:57:39<+discordbot1> I think Lich should have normal skeleton resistence because they technically died to become lich, this setting is actually canonical, if according to DiD's plots 20180609 10:57:53<+discordbot1> by the way, it always seemed a bit bad that human mages have so many varied different types while elves, who are typically described in fantasy as the most knowledgable about magic, have barely 2 types 20180609 10:58:19<+discordbot1> Humans are the most experimental. 20180609 10:58:19<+discordbot1> because they dont need it at all maybe? 20180609 10:58:27<+discordbot1> humans 20180609 10:58:29< Ravana_> lich already has normal skeleton resists, instead skeletons override those resists 20180609 10:58:31<+discordbot1> tell you guys something 20180609 10:58:37<+discordbot1> imagine an elf mage with teleport ability like silver mage, but with forests 😄 20180609 10:58:41<+discordbot1> NEVER go arch mage line unless necessary 20180609 10:58:46<+discordbot1> silver and white are ALWAYS better 20180609 10:58:49<+discordbot1> (totally not balanced, I know) 20180609 10:58:56<+discordbot1> I played the game 10 years to realize this shity fact 20180609 10:58:59<+discordbot1> 😂 20180609 10:59:04<+discordbot1> silver mages are really great 20180609 10:59:18<+discordbot1> super resistence, plus 1 more MP, and teleport OP 20180609 10:59:29<+discordbot1> light mage no need to say 20180609 10:59:44<+discordbot1> Well 20180609 10:59:47<+discordbot1> great mages are great nukes 20180609 10:59:49<+discordbot1> good dmg even on melee plus the light 20180609 10:59:56<+discordbot1> but yes 20180609 11:00:02<+discordbot1> great mages are fantastic terrain remover 20180609 11:00:10<+discordbot1> because the crazy output 20180609 11:00:15<+discordbot1> but otherwise it is junk 20180609 11:00:19<+discordbot1> 😂 20180609 11:00:32<+discordbot1> -4 gold per turn is main disadvantage 20180609 11:01:59<+discordbot1> ....thinking about it, I suppose it is kind of strange that there's only 2 types of elven magic and (roughly) 4-5 human types 20180609 11:02:14<+discordbot1> I used to prefer going T4 mage in HTTT with dat loyal mage 20180609 11:02:28<+discordbot1> but after like 10 play throughs I realized 20180609 11:02:31<+discordbot1> great mage is junk 20180609 11:02:37<+discordbot1> 😒 20180609 11:02:46<+discordbot1> Counting Silver and Lich as somewhat different from Arch and Necro 20180609 11:02:47<+discordbot1> ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 20180609 11:02:49<+discordbot1> arguably elven types are really just one type with 2 variatns 20180609 11:02:57<+discordbot1> I mean, except for the healing, they are very similar 20180609 11:03:05<+discordbot1> ....that's not really true at lal 20180609 11:03:06<+discordbot1> unlike human, where each type is very distinct 20180609 11:03:13<+discordbot1> I think elf mage line isnt sufficiently designed tbh 20180609 11:03:22<+discordbot1> What 20180609 11:03:25<+discordbot1> it is more like one mage split into 2 20180609 11:03:35<+discordbot1> we could have made them only one line 20180609 11:03:40<+discordbot1> with both healcure and the output 20180609 11:03:47<+discordbot1> so it is seriously cool somehow 20180609 11:03:51<+discordbot1> No, that would've been either OP or UP 20180609 11:04:00<+discordbot1> Also weren't you arguing for more diversity? 20180609 11:04:00<+discordbot1> it wont be OP tho, 20180609 11:04:04<+discordbot1> Sorceresses are offensive, healers are defensive. Sylphs get huge firepower, shydes can actually fly 20180609 11:04:09<+discordbot1> think about human mage that has 9-3 on white 20180609 11:04:18<+discordbot1> the Sorceress line also flies 20180609 11:04:19<+discordbot1> but elf sorceress only 6-4 20180609 11:04:21<+discordbot1> and no heals 20180609 11:04:34<+discordbot1> Sylph doesn't exactly fly 20180609 11:04:45<+discordbot1> your dex ones doesnt even do as much dmg as white mage so I think it should be fine 20180609 11:04:45<+discordbot1> is slowed down by some stuff Shydes aren't 20180609 11:04:46<+discordbot1> Sorceress has 7-4 20180609 11:04:56<+discordbot1> shit, its 7-4 20180609 11:05:03<+discordbot1> and 70% forest resistance 20180609 11:05:08<+discordbot1> I'm not saying they have the same role gameplay-wise 20180609 11:05:16<+discordbot1> well they are elves 20180609 11:05:20<+discordbot1> but they are similar, they have almost the same attack types 20180609 11:05:29<+discordbot1> and worse in caves to compare humans as compensation 20180609 11:05:30<+discordbot1> while human mages are vastly different to each other 20180609 11:05:31<+discordbot1> and more HP 20180609 11:05:44<+discordbot1> nerf it maybe for the double abilities? 20180609 11:05:45<+discordbot1> But elves are neutral which is a slight downside 20180609 11:05:50<+discordbot1> we can nerf it ofc 20180609 11:05:56<+discordbot1> red mages are neutral too, aren't they 20180609 11:05:57<+discordbot1> White and Red mages are even closer than the elf lines 20180609 11:06:13<+discordbot1> I dont think neutral is naturally worse than lawful/chaotic 20180609 11:06:19<+discordbot1> It is. 20180609 11:06:27<+discordbot1> in perspectives of pvp neutral is actually better in long run 20180609 11:06:45<+discordbot1> you want a more stable output and stander instead of bursting damage during certain periods 20180609 11:06:56<+discordbot1> unless E v D thats makes some tiny differences 20180609 11:06:58<+discordbot1> Defensively the best would be to have the same as your opponent, offensively the best would be to have the opposite. 20180609 11:07:02<+discordbot1> Neutral never is either of those. 20180609 11:07:18<+discordbot1> whats your elo on ladder, nyvrem? 20180609 11:08:13<+discordbot1> just wondering where did you conclude neutral < lawful/chaotic tho because it doesnt seem like what people generally know 20180609 11:08:21<+discordbot1> pvp, or vs AI? 20180609 11:08:58<+discordbot1> Well vs AI more than PvP, and it does kind of depend on the matchup, but if you make better use of ToD than your opponent lawful/chaotic are superiour to neutral 20180609 11:09:24<+discordbot1> So this is especially true in campaigns/vs AI, of course, but also relevant in PvP. 20180609 11:09:27<+discordbot1> if vs AI than you can arguably say non-neutral > neutral in certain circumstances 20180609 11:09:43<+discordbot1> where you have the tactical need to retreat during bad time and offend in good time 20180609 11:09:52<+discordbot1> but technically speaking.... 20180609 11:10:06<+discordbot1> does that kind of scenario even exist in wesnoth's campaigns a lot 20180609 11:10:09<+discordbot1> 🤔 20180609 11:10:15<+discordbot1> But like I said, having the same alignment benefits defensive play and the opposite alignment benefits agressive play 20180609 11:11:42<+discordbot1> Oh right, let's not forget, Elvish Sorceress has entangle. 20180609 11:11:47<+discordbot1> well some factions are simply better in agression and some better in defense, and I think we forgot that unit type also influences the benefit of being non-neutural/neutral a lot 20180609 11:12:12<+discordbot1> for example, elf fighter is simply better to be neutral, because the 5-4 dmg 20180609 11:12:34<+discordbot1> whilst human spear is better as lawful or maybe customized chaotic for the 7-3 20180609 11:13:20<+discordbot1> the math between 7+ and 7- in wesnoth's 25% buff/debuff system plays a heavily important role imo 20180609 11:13:52<+discordbot1> Neutral vs neutral matchups 😅 20180609 11:14:05<+discordbot1> drawf mirror 20180609 11:14:11<+discordbot1> 😂 20180609 11:14:16<+discordbot1> longest terrible shit 20180609 11:14:21<+discordbot1> Welcome to hell 20180609 11:14:27<+discordbot1> this game will take 4 weeks 20180609 11:14:51<+discordbot1> dwarf is actually pretty good to be chaotic I think, idk why devs made them neutral 20180609 11:15:00<+discordbot1> they are naturally cave dwelers 20180609 11:15:03<+discordbot1> Lawful of mind Chaotic of eyes 20180609 11:15:15<+discordbot1> maybe they want them to be balanced vs trolls which naturally gain 25% in caves 20180609 11:16:56<+discordbot1> what about drake, btw? 20180609 11:17:11<+discordbot1> I think dwarves being neutral is somehow mirroring elves 20180609 11:17:13<+discordbot1> Biggest thing is that there is uhhh, this trait, what's it called? 20180609 11:17:14<+discordbot1> I like that 20180609 11:17:16<+discordbot1> Brave or something? 20180609 11:17:22<+discordbot1> Where you ignore the mallus and only get the benefit of alignment. 20180609 11:17:49<+discordbot1> Fearless 20180609 11:17:54<+discordbot1> what I think about Drake is they are actually most fickle for their lawfulness tbh. it is actually a counter-example to your chaotic/lawful > neutral feeling 20180609 11:18:13<+discordbot1> I always think, if you make drakes neutral, the UPness vs human in PvP is significantly improved 20180609 11:18:21<+discordbot1> because drakes vs loyals during day...meh 20180609 11:18:24<+discordbot1> 😂 20180609 11:18:27<+discordbot1> Drake culture isn't really that much expanded 20180609 11:18:44<+discordbot1> Drakes just have really really bad night sight I guess 20180609 11:18:46<+discordbot1> yeah drake setting is heavily insufficent in wesnoth 20180609 11:18:48<+discordbot1> while Saurians are the opposite 20180609 11:18:51<+discordbot1> to be honest, it seems to me drakes not really fit the game 20180609 11:19:07<+discordbot1> just someone thought having dragon race would be cool and added them on top of what was there already 20180609 11:19:08<+discordbot1> drakes' 30/40% defence is arguably game breaking 20180609 11:19:19<+discordbot1> thx god that this game isnt really pvp centric 20180609 11:19:26<+discordbot1> whereas people play drakes mostly for fun 20180609 11:19:40<+discordbot1> that and -50% to cold 20180609 11:19:41<+discordbot1> 30/40%? 20180609 11:19:55<+discordbot1> 30% on flat, cave, swamp 20180609 11:20:06<+discordbot1> 40% on hill mountain castle or whatever 20180609 11:20:18<+discordbot1> except gliders 20180609 11:20:22<+discordbot1> 20% on deep and shallow, too. This makes shit sense 20180609 11:20:31<+discordbot1> They are very costly and not that high HP 20180609 11:20:37<+discordbot1> they literally can fly....and has same dodge rate as those who cant fly in water 20180609 11:20:39<+discordbot1> 😂 20180609 11:20:40<+discordbot1> it does make some sense, it is explained that they can't actually fly all the time 20180609 11:20:44<+discordbot1> except gliders 20180609 11:20:58<+discordbot1> and they are bigger and easier to hit than most other races 20180609 11:21:04<+discordbot1> well they are all technically drakes 20180609 11:21:13<+discordbot1> read the units descriptions 20180609 11:21:14<+discordbot1> only gliders equip no armor and weapon 20180609 11:21:23<+discordbot1> yeah I know what you mean bud 20180609 11:21:36<+discordbot1> it's not only about equipment though 20180609 11:21:41<+discordbot1> they also differ in their abilities 20180609 11:22:04<+discordbot1> like some are better with spitting fire 20180609 11:22:07<+discordbot1> the marksman pickoff? 20180609 11:22:22<+discordbot1> pickoff? what do you mean? 20180609 11:23:07<+discordbot1> What campaigns even feature drakes? 20180609 11:23:42<+discordbot1> NR only, by far 20180609 11:24:10<+discordbot1> and NR require some advanced understanding of drakes playstyle to not lose units heavily 20180609 11:24:32<+discordbot1> Saurians show up in a lot more campaigns iirc 20180609 11:24:32<+discordbot1> which isnt really intuitive 20180609 11:24:40<+discordbot1> because they are just swamp lizardsss 20180609 11:24:47<+discordbot1> they show up to be killed, not to be used tho 20180609 11:25:03<+discordbot1> sotbe use sau but not much, you have way superior grunt and trolls 20180609 11:25:22<+discordbot1> make like few and rank to soothsayer is all they do 20180609 11:25:37<+discordbot1> there was one nice saurian campaign 20180609 11:25:42<+discordbot1> can't remember the name now 20180609 11:25:45<+discordbot1> Skirmish can be useful. 20180609 11:25:54<+discordbot1> A campaign with only two recruitable units? 20180609 11:25:57<+discordbot1> useful in "skirmishes" 20180609 11:26:04<+discordbot1> it had some custom units obviously 20180609 11:26:08<+discordbot1> but sotbe is largely a big scale war campaign 20180609 11:26:10<+discordbot1> It is useful when fighting undead 20180609 11:26:26<+discordbot1> but yes only on a trade-off scale 20180609 11:26:30<+discordbot1> really, I always thought skirmisher is worst vs UD 20180609 11:26:44<+discordbot1> you can use trolls anyway why not 20180609 11:26:58<+discordbot1> trolls aren't in the drake faction though 20180609 11:27:03<+discordbot1> actually I was wondering what units are best to fight undead 20180609 11:27:09<+discordbot1> Why do Saurians and Drakes fight together anyway? 20180609 11:27:13<+discordbot1> oh you mean generally 20180609 11:27:15<+discordbot1> Impact and Arcane, Landiss. 20180609 11:27:17<+discordbot1> not the campaign? 20180609 11:27:17<+discordbot1> played the alterlife recently and enemy recruited only dark adepts 20180609 11:27:25<+discordbot1> Unless they go heavy on Ghouls and Corpses. 20180609 11:27:33<+discordbot1> I mean from the drake faction 20180609 11:27:37<+discordbot1> Oh. 20180609 11:27:46<+discordbot1> I ended up recruiting saurians, but that didn't work at all 20180609 11:27:56<+discordbot1> Fire Drakes, lots and lots of em 20180609 11:28:00<+discordbot1> maybe some fighters 20180609 11:28:03<+discordbot1> or gliders 20180609 11:28:06<+discordbot1> but mostly fire drakes 20180609 11:28:06<+discordbot1> well, I'm not sure 20180609 11:28:08<+discordbot1> saurian is worst vs UD in any scenarios tho I think 20180609 11:28:11<+discordbot1> drakes have -50% to cold 20180609 11:28:16<+discordbot1> you as drake need only blader spam 20180609 11:28:24<+discordbot1> blader all time, sometimes maybe burner 20180609 11:28:31<+discordbot1> yeah, perhaps 20180609 11:28:37<+discordbot1> blader, you mean fighter? 20180609 11:28:37<+discordbot1> although they would die very easily 20180609 11:28:40<+discordbot1> yep 20180609 11:28:46<+discordbot1> it is quite pro use tho 20180609 11:28:55<+discordbot1> not suggestive for normal use 20180609 11:29:00<+discordbot1> in pvp it is arguably OP vs UD 20180609 11:29:14<+discordbot1> more OP than burners? 20180609 11:29:15<+discordbot1> drakes are OP vs UD? 20180609 11:29:16<+discordbot1> because you have better MP than adept and always fly away during night 20180609 11:29:28<+discordbot1> ahh, but you assume there is space to fly away 20180609 11:29:29<+discordbot1> no, only super pros make UD helpless 20180609 11:29:36<+discordbot1> generally they sux vs UD 20180609 11:29:41<+discordbot1> I was writing about afterlife map specifically 20180609 11:29:51<+discordbot1> isn't Drake vs UD one of the matchups where UD goes for walking corpse spam? 20180609 11:30:08<+discordbot1> no, UD go corpse "spam" vs orcs 20180609 11:30:18<+discordbot1> arguably vs elves but not much 20180609 11:30:18<+discordbot1> and mirror 20180609 11:30:27<+discordbot1> yeah UD mirror 20180609 11:30:37<+discordbot1> adpet ghoul zombie 20180609 11:30:40<+discordbot1> nonstop laming 20180609 11:30:43<+discordbot1> 😒 20180609 11:30:54<+discordbot1> the kind of mirror you want to throw your pc out window for 20180609 11:31:00<+discordbot1> then is drake vs undead more of a ghoul heavy play? 20180609 11:31:13<+discordbot1> dark adepts 20180609 11:31:20<+discordbot1> if you don't use WC to fluff your lines what do you use, archers, or just spam dark adepts for days? 20180609 11:31:37<+discordbot1> no, drake vs ud is heavily unstable. people generally spam adept and use it vs anything drakes make 20180609 11:31:49<+discordbot1> hellish 20180609 11:31:50<+discordbot1> and drakes generally make fighter only, maybe some burner 20180609 11:31:51<+discordbot1> well, I imagine you can take some meat, but adepts are so very OP it's hard to not take that dmg output 20180609 11:32:12<+discordbot1> They can make more adepts than you can make drakes 20180609 11:32:24<+discordbot1> thats why this matchup, people call it unstable instead of imba 20180609 11:32:42<+discordbot1> on some maps, where you can survive by yielding no more than 3 villages in the night 20180609 11:32:48<+discordbot1> you can win with drake 20180609 11:33:03<+discordbot1> using the speed laming...avoid damage, and cut adepts alive during day 20180609 11:33:16<+discordbot1> on some other maps where you lose 4 or more in a night, you cant 20180609 11:33:36<+discordbot1> because the undead gain too much production power and would overwhelm you in sheer numerical advantage 20180609 11:34:18<+discordbot1> I always think drake can technically beat UD in that cave map and fallenstar 20180609 11:34:40<+discordbot1> because adept find it so hard to touch drakes during nights and in day they got cut... 20180609 11:34:56<+discordbot1> freelands then you sux 20180609 11:35:04<+discordbot1> UD push from 3 directions together 20180609 11:35:09<+discordbot1> and you call a GG 20180609 11:35:12<+discordbot1> 😂 20180609 11:35:14<+discordbot1> Lore question 20180609 11:35:20<+discordbot1> How come Saurians and Drakes work together? 20180609 11:35:43<+discordbot1> because they are all biologically Reptilia? 20180609 11:35:45<+discordbot1> they are both lizards, so why not 20180609 11:36:00<+discordbot1> cold blooded creatures either favoring heat or favoring coolness? 20180609 11:36:10<+discordbot1> there is no mainline campaign about it 20180609 11:36:13<+discordbot1> Saurians don't like the cold either 20180609 11:36:21<+discordbot1> but in some UMC I think I saw that explained as saurians being drakes slaves 20180609 11:36:34<+discordbot1> well, coolness of the night isnt technically same as the tempest adepts would blast tho 20180609 11:36:48<+discordbot1> they would shy away during winters too 20180609 11:36:57<+discordbot1> UMC? 20180609 11:37:04<+discordbot1> user made content 20180609 11:37:12<+discordbot1> in other words, campaigns from add-ons server 20180609 11:37:25<+discordbot1> Aren't all campaigns UMC? 20180609 11:37:26<+discordbot1> no, canonical. Sotbe you have a winter scenario 20180609 11:37:27<+discordbot1> but I can't remember any details, it was something I played several years ago I think 20180609 11:37:28<+discordbot1> 🤔 20180609 11:37:36<+discordbot1> all campaigns were once UMC yeah 20180609 11:37:43<+discordbot1> all? 20180609 11:37:54<+discordbot1> but once being added to mainline, it became part of the wesnoth canon 20180609 11:37:57<+discordbot1> I mean, when does someone stop being an user? 20180609 11:38:08<+discordbot1> dies or leaves the community 20180609 11:38:10<+discordbot1> I thought at least a few were developed by the game developers at the start, not by users 20180609 11:38:12<+discordbot1> 😒 20180609 11:38:27<+discordbot1> the distinction is simply what is shipped with the game and what is in add-ons, at least that's how I treat it 20180609 11:38:39<+discordbot1> no, they engaged in developing some, but not mainly 20180609 11:38:56<+discordbot1> thats why wesnoth campaigns varying so greatly in styles and tactics 20180609 11:38:58<+discordbot1> really, so Heir to the Throne was not available in game from the beginning in some form? 20180609 11:39:08<+discordbot1> This is why people use the terms "official" or "canon" instead 😅 20180609 11:39:15<+discordbot1> I really dont know, you throw a 20yr old question 20180609 11:39:27<+discordbot1> which we cant dignify a good answer 20180609 11:39:28<+discordbot1> lol 20180609 11:40:00<+discordbot1> at least one good or maybe "fair" part of wesnoth is 20180609 11:40:05<+discordbot1> as far as I see in PvP 20180609 11:40:17<+discordbot1> there is no OP faction all time 20180609 11:40:43<+discordbot1> well, the reason why I'm asking, is because you make statement like you would know this 20180609 11:40:46<+discordbot1> any particularly good combo, the advantageous faction sees a weakness vs another one or two factions 20180609 11:40:55<+discordbot1> and since I played Wesnoth for the first time, several campaigns where there already 20180609 11:41:03<+discordbot1> and I guess that was 10 years ago 20180609 11:41:12<+discordbot1> HTTT I really dont know I am sorry 20180609 11:41:21<+discordbot1> because the oldest wesnoth I have is 0.4 20180609 11:41:27<+discordbot1> and that has 6 campaigns 20180609 11:41:27<+discordbot1> so, you cannot say that all campaigns started as UMC, can you 20180609 11:41:30<+discordbot1> which has HTTT already 20180609 11:41:38<+discordbot1> The OP faction is when people play their first game ever and you spam woses. 20180609 11:42:21<+discordbot1> no, I cant really say that, I say "all" because it is really a large majority of the campaigns came from UMCs in the beginning 20180609 11:42:43<+discordbot1> but to say technically all of them I am just unsure. needs some research 20180609 11:42:53<+discordbot1> maybe really all of them or maybe some are initially there 20180609 11:43:08<+discordbot1> Aren't all wesnoth devs users as well? 20180609 11:43:11<+discordbot1> best faction in PvP by far is dwarves 20180609 11:43:14<+discordbot1> yeah, they are 20180609 11:43:49<+discordbot1> but proportion of contribution to this game is significantly more than user campaign makers 20180609 11:45:49<+discordbot1> Aren't they defined by their amount of contribution, rather than the other way around? 20180609 11:46:06<+discordbot1> no, wait. you may be right 20180609 11:46:18<+discordbot1> if thats the case of definition, wesnoth's all campaigns are indeed UMC 20180609 11:46:38<+discordbot1> because the project itself is naturally open sourced and no devs can be clearly defined out the user genr 20180609 11:46:58<+discordbot1> hence whoever made the campaigns first, be him dev or normal UMC maker, are all users 20180609 11:48:28<+discordbot1> I think it's useless to take a literal meaning of the words 20180609 11:49:02<+discordbot1> the distinction is made in many places, between mainline, which is everything that is shipped with the game and UMC, which is the rest 20180609 11:49:42<+discordbot1> and sure, because Wesnoth is developped by the community, lots of UMC make it into mainline over time, 20180609 11:50:37<+discordbot1> we should initiate a movement of finding a best suitable Drake UMC tho 20180609 11:50:57<+discordbot1> to make it into mainline, which should best illustrate Drake culture and tactical uses 20180609 11:51:48<+discordbot1> Drake is always a pro faction imo so I think it is arguably better to have a low ceiling for the campaign 20180609 11:52:25<+discordbot1> e.g. it should be relatively easy, terrain preferences are generally situational, or you get 50% dodge rate on mountains 20180609 11:53:55<+discordbot1> I don't know squat about making campaigns but I could help with lore and writing. 20180609 11:58:32<+discordbot1> 🤔 20180609 11:58:38<+discordbot1> do you play lot of vs AI bro? 20180609 11:58:46<+discordbot1> I need two decent mates for WC nightmare 20180609 11:58:53<+discordbot1> the nubs are making me crazy 20180609 12:01:13<+discordbot1> Can't wait for Arena to be ported 20180609 12:01:17<+discordbot1> so we can do 6 player soulless again 20180609 12:01:20<+discordbot1> 😩 20180609 12:01:54<+discordbot1> I need to go soon. 20180609 12:37:19<+discordbot1> @Nyvrem while we talk about help with lore and writing... 😉 😛 20180609 13:06:41<+discordbot1> What is the mainline lore for Drakes anyhow? 20180609 13:06:52<+discordbot1> I dont recall seeing them at all in the campaigns 20180609 13:11:22<+discordbot1> There is a hidden mission in HttT where you meet drakes 20180609 13:27:19<+discordbot1> i assume they're some kind of ancient race 20180609 13:35:10<+discordbot1> there is drake mission in HttT? I guess they must have added it after I played it, or it's indeed well hidden 20180609 14:07:57<+discordbot1> @Nyvrem you keep mentioning Arena. Which add-on are you talking about? 20180609 14:13:06<+discordbot1> in 1.12 I see ArenaZ, CnF Arena, Skyraven Arena, and Gambling Arena 20180609 15:27:13-!- gallaecio_ [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Converse confortabelmente. En calquera parte.] 20180609 15:29:57-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 15:35:10-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20180609 15:53:44-!- Soo_Slow [~devnu11@ppp91-122-148-173.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 16:06:55-!- octalot [~steve@91.141.3.100.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 16:26:35-!- sigurdfd [sigurdfd@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 17:16:52-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180609 17:16:58-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 17:25:05<+discordbot1> There is a mission where you need to decide between going north through orcs or south through undeads 20180609 17:25:39<+discordbot1> If you build merman in this mission and send them to the river-end on the eastern side of the map, you will get the option to follow the river instead (and meet drakes there) 20180609 17:26:13<+discordbot1> @sapient_n3t The one that was always being hosted in MP 20180609 17:27:42< octalot> Nyvrem: do you mean Colosseum? 20180609 17:29:32<+discordbot1> Yes. 20180609 17:43:57-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|away 20180609 17:48:37-!- Soo_Slow [~devnu11@ppp91-122-148-173.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Quit: Soo_Slow] 20180609 17:49:54-!- DeFender1031 [~DeFender1@89-138-13-24.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 17:54:50-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180609 18:01:31-!- Ravana_ [~Ravana@unaffiliated/ravana/x-2327071] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20180609 18:02:01-!- Ravana_ [~Ravana@unaffiliated/ravana/x-2327071] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 18:04:02-!- oldlaptop_ [~quassel@45.63.78.126] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 18:04:07-!- oldlaptop [~quassel@45.63.78.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20180609 18:06:18-!- madmax28 [madmax28ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-cpfhbebgsnzaexow] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180609 18:07:22-!- desttinghim[m] [desttinghi@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vtfzcssjlghkitix] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180609 18:07:45<+discordbot1> @Flameheart @Kwandulin I'm done reviewing all the drake campaigns I could find. There are 11 campaigns on the 1.6-1.14 servers. Don't have time to go over things today, but I feel all of the best options need some level of work to properly fit in mainline. 20180609 18:07:56-!- sigurdfd [sigurdfd@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has quit [] 20180609 18:08:17<+discordbot1> one of the campaign @sigurdfd that is called some brave wing shit I cant remember 20180609 18:08:43<+discordbot1> where you start as a drake but you undergoes nirvana and becomes a real dragon in the ending scenario 20180609 18:08:56<+discordbot1> that one is technically tangible plan to add into mainline from my perspective 20180609 18:09:41<+discordbot1> other missions I could more or less have played in the past 6 years or before, but none of them feels "easy" enough for players that newly start Drake factions 20180609 18:09:49<+discordbot1> or, being intuitive 20180609 18:10:37<+discordbot1> If we managed to collect enough art work and redo some of its dialogs, this one can make a mainline one. Its balance is pretty nice and can be playable for new drake players 20180609 18:18:19<+discordbot1> celticminstrel: I can't really get the functions to work, but it's sure eating a lot of CPU process while computing. So much that even if I did get it working, I wouldn't use it, lol. 20180609 18:18:38<+discordbot1> Is there no way to make IPF use the GPU instead of CPU? D: 20180609 18:24:33< zookeeper> ...what does your IPF look if it takes a perceptible amount of time to compute? 20180609 18:25:39<+discordbot1> celticminstrel: I'm not sure the self variable is usable in formulas for IPF? As in reduce(magenta, color_equals(self, a) or color_equals(self, b)). Maybe some other way to compare the defined magenta list could be used. if(magenta = make_color(red,green,blue), X, Y) would be great.. but if doesn't work with lists, does it? -ponder- 20180609 18:26:41<+discordbot1> zookeeper: oh, it's a silly big tripple function using ~CHAN(formula,formula,formula). We were thinking of ways to apply while ignoring magenta. 20180609 18:28:06<+discordbot1> Also, I just realized.. even if we have all magenta rgb values defined, would it even work since the image doesn't have any magenta colors? I mean, a player 1 (teamcolor red) unit would be have red there, after all. Hmm. 20180609 18:28:37<+discordbot1> zookeeper: *ways to apply sepia while ignoring magenta 20180609 18:31:13<+discordbot1> It's looking like this at the moment https://pastebin.com/jzBL1s9S 20180609 18:32:22<+discordbot1> It doesn't work, because either the self variable doesn't work in IPF, or because the function doesn't look at the base image (that has magenta in it) ? 20180609 18:34:43< zookeeper> okaaay. that's elaborate. 20180609 18:35:11<+discordbot1> Yes -sweat- 20180609 18:36:41<+discordbot1> Still, it doesn't work, and I don't know why. Maybe because of the self variable? Maybe because it doesn't look at the unit's base image (the one that actually has magenta colors)? No idea. Further help and/or input would be appreciated, although I'm pretty sure I wouldn't actually use this unless there was a way to notably reduce the computing time 😉 20180609 18:36:42<+discordbot1> ❤ 20180609 18:37:19< zookeeper> i'm surprised if there is a way to reference the "current" pixel values directly 20180609 18:38:12<+discordbot1> celticminstrel made an issue , too https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/3219 20180609 18:40:33<+discordbot1> Maybe I could replace the if(reduce(magenta, color_equals(self, a) or color_equals(self, b)), red, (0.393 * red) + (0.769 * green) + (0.189 * blue)) with something like if(magenta = make_color(red,green,blue), red, (0.393 * red) + (0.769 * green) + (0.189 * blue)) but I don't think the IF wfl function handles lists, and the problem with if it's looking at the base image or the current teamcolored image would still be there as well 20180609 18:40:34<+discordbot1> 🤷 20180609 18:46:48-!- Catoptromancy [~cato@unaffiliated/catoptromancy] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 18:47:05< Catoptromancy> not entirely sure where to post this bug 20180609 18:47:30< Catoptromancy> using a mod that allows more units to be computer controlled leaders 20180609 18:47:47< Catoptromancy> this one leader has no attacks, and still left keep to attack 20180609 18:50:22< Catoptromancy> i think mod is only programmed to use these units 20180609 18:51:19<+discordbot1> someone play SXC or WC with me? 20180609 18:57:19< Catoptromancy> seems like its wesnoth that has the attacking AI 20180609 18:57:47< Catoptromancy> and not the mod 20180609 19:09:48<+discordbot1> who joins? 20180609 19:09:51<+discordbot1> for a survival 20180609 19:09:54<+discordbot1> very easy and fun 20180609 19:13:25-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 19:15:33<+discordbot1> I would, but I'm bad at the game and I don't have the most recent version :P 20180609 19:15:50<+discordbot1> Also I was trying to do a thing before ~distractions~ happened 🤦 20180609 19:17:02< octalot> Flameheart: I'd happily play SXC or an easy WC 20180609 19:17:52< octalot> But there's not many available players who aren't already in games 20180609 19:31:13<+discordbot1> im down for a WCII 20180609 19:31:19<+discordbot1> assuming thats world conquest II 20180609 19:45:02< celmin|away> @Vazl - "self" always refers to the current context. In an IPF that means the current pixel. Even if = works on lists you'd be comparing the whole list so that's not what you want... but actually... there's the "in" operator so maybe you can do if(self in magenta, ...) Also you might be right about it being applied after the team-colouring... 20180609 19:45:28<+discordbot1> Yeah :/ 20180609 19:45:36< celmin|away> In the next stable version this will almost certainly be moved to the GPU, so that'll drastically improve computation time. 20180609 19:46:11<+discordbot1> That's good to hear, however 😃 -thumbs up- 20180609 19:46:40< celmin|away> I have a proof of concept for moving IPFs in general to the GPU. It doesn't handle ~CHAN() yet though. 20180609 19:46:54< celmin|away> (Also doesn't handle ~MASK(), ~L(), or ~BLIT().) 20180609 19:47:09< celmin|away> (All of which would be easier to handle than CHAN().) 20180609 19:47:19-!- celmin|away is now known as celticminstrel 20180609 19:47:19<+discordbot1> next stable version meaning 1.16, I assume, rather than 1.14.3? 20180609 19:47:24< celticminstrel> Yes. 20180609 19:47:33< celticminstrel> Next stable series would be a better way to put it. 20180609 20:35:31-!- madmax28 [madmax28ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qxederbyeczapcmn] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 21:16:30-!- desttinghim[m] [desttinghi@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kvzmwqzztzojndkr] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 21:19:08<+discordbot1> Is "spasmic" a real word? Like someone suffering from spasms, could they be referred to as being "spasmic"? Hmm. 20180609 21:20:08<+discordbot1> I believe the word you may be looking for is "spastic" 20180609 21:20:26<+discordbot1> Ah, yes! Thanks, Visage 😃 20180609 21:21:26< celticminstrel> I think spasmic would count as a word but not describing what you want. 20180609 21:21:40< celticminstrel> The suffix -ic means "of or pertaining to". 20180609 21:21:54< celticminstrel> Though I'm not sure that works for all words with the suffix... 20180609 21:22:17< zookeeper> if you want to be sure, you could just check instead of asking here 20180609 21:22:19< celticminstrel> Does it work for "acidic" and "rhythmic"? 20180609 21:22:59<+discordbot1> Spasmic is a word because people understand what you mean. 20180609 21:23:31< celticminstrel> I think the main thing here is that "spastic" means someone is affected by spasms but "spasmic" might just mean something that's like a spasm. 20180609 21:23:47<+discordbot1> zookeeper: Just trying to make conversation 😐 20180609 21:24:15< zookeeper> hence the "if" :p 20180609 21:24:20< celticminstrel> I'd be careful using "spastic" mind you. 20180609 21:25:32<+discordbot1> Why's that? 20180609 21:26:50< celticminstrel> Well, it's used as a slur sometimes. 20180609 21:26:55<+discordbot1> Ah. 20180609 21:27:27 * zookeeper blinks 20180609 21:27:37<+discordbot1> I'll rephrase it then 20180609 21:27:59< celticminstrel> I've heard it in Britain actually, and Wiktionary claims it's mainly a British thing, so that lines up. 20180609 21:28:20<+discordbot1> Spastic is used as an insult, yes. 20180609 21:29:03< celticminstrel> I'm not saying you can't use it, just be careful with it? 20180609 21:29:38<+discordbot1> All depends on context of course. 20180609 21:29:40< celticminstrel> Don't apply it directly to a person, for example. 20180609 21:30:00<+discordbot1> No no no, a person can be spastic, like, legitimately spastic, just depends on how you bring it up. 20180609 21:30:21< celticminstrel> I mean yeah, context is everything, but generally speaking, don't. 20180609 21:30:45<+discordbot1> Gotcha, and I'm not using it that way 😃 It's for weapon special's effect description 20180609 21:30:51< celticminstrel> But if you're describing the dying paroxysms of a tentacled monster I don't think anyone would be offended by the use of the word. 20180609 21:31:00< celticminstrel> (As an example.) 20180609 21:31:19<+discordbot1> I can just go "Units suffering from these spasms have ..." instead of "Spastic units have" 20180609 21:31:26< celticminstrel> 'kay 20180609 22:31:10-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20180609 22:48:47-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180609 22:59:19-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180609 23:22:42-!- ibispi [~quassel@188.246.34.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] --- Log closed Sun Jun 10 00:00:03 2018