--- Log opened Sat Jul 14 00:00:33 2018 20180714 00:06:01-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 00:16:59-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180714 00:17:05-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 00:28:26< irker683> wesnoth: DisherProject wesnoth:master 4a9c6610d48c / data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/scenarios/08_Ur_Thorodor.cfg: DM S08: Remove some (apparently) unused stuff https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/4a9c6610d48c5a059cdba95afa3b7b4a31da6c94 20180714 00:28:28< irker683> wesnoth: DisherProject wesnoth:master 289af5ba1b66 / data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/scenarios/14_Shadows.cfg: DM S14: follow up TODO https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/289af5ba1b66df897d1b04c63a9e9e9b83f87aad 20180714 00:28:30< irker683> wesnoth: DisherProject wesnoth:master 370e50c5a672 / data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/utils/sides.cfg: DM utils/sides.cfg: follow up FIXME https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/370e50c5a67243c9584b8901c08a9fc728d97b2f 20180714 00:28:32< irker683> wesnoth: DisherProject wesnoth:master d0a369c65dd5 / data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/scenarios/21_Clash_at_the_Manor.cfg: DM S21: Add some visual effects https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/d0a369c65dd57d6cf45ad1ab5eb514e6378813d7 20180714 00:28:34< irker683> wesnoth: DisherProject wesnoth:master d5e22a32c354 / data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/ (scenarios/15_Save_the_King.cfg utils/deaths.cfg): DM: add some TODOs https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/d5e22a32c354d135a7e1453a7f82429d4199caf4 20180714 00:29:25< irker683> wesnoth/wesnoth:master DisherProject f65a0a43f4 DM: add some TODOs AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180714 00:36:33< irker683> wesnoth: DisherProject wesnoth:1.14 a5b31ebeec9a / data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/scenarios/08_Ur_Thorodor.cfg: DM S08: Remove some (apparently) unused stuff https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/a5b31ebeec9acb2338eb54c9204ca1ad442fbc95 20180714 00:36:35< irker683> wesnoth: DisherProject wesnoth:1.14 612070212b2e / data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/scenarios/14_Shadows.cfg: DM S14: follow up TODO https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/612070212b2eae6edf53dd3df7ae3e9e1887b1ca 20180714 00:36:37< irker683> wesnoth: DisherProject wesnoth:1.14 fc62a2ce382e / data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/utils/sides.cfg: DM utils/sides.cfg: follow up FIXME https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/fc62a2ce382e63aaee4415f9db582e43cef20856 20180714 00:36:39< irker683> wesnoth: DisherProject wesnoth:1.14 072fcca02d7e / data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/scenarios/21_Clash_at_the_Manor.cfg: DM S21: Add some visual effects https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/072fcca02d7e512b16311551bea73c36f38cdfd4 20180714 00:36:41< irker683> wesnoth: DisherProject wesnoth:1.14 ae088f4ce294 / data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/ (scenarios/15_Save_the_King.cfg utils/deaths.cfg): DM: add some TODOs https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ae088f4ce29449c5f51b041ced4e9a6e753f18a7 20180714 00:36:51-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.178.69.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180714 00:38:43-!- sigurdfd [sigurdfd@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 00:53:00-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 00:55:27< irker683> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 996551e6f7b5 / src/gui/widgets/ (tree_view.cpp tree_view_node.cpp): GUI2/Tree View [Node]: formatting cleanup https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/996551e6f7b5840f0ef32e2c564ce53eb32ab06a 20180714 01:09:40<+discordbot1> I'm in favor of keeping the damsel-in-distress tropes in mainline. IIRC, there's only 2, LoW & NR. Sure, they could probably use improvements in how they are carried out. Not having any in mainline would seem odd. 20180714 01:09:44< irker683> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master e62ec5f8060c / src/ (7 files in 3 dirs): GUI2/Tree View: use NOTIFY_MODIFIED events instead of manual callbacks https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/e62ec5f8060cb18de166b990fdca5b4653d26049 20180714 01:10:21<+discordbot1> @sigurdfd damsel-in-distress narratives just don't really work today. 20180714 01:10:40<+discordbot1> I don't see that as a reason for getting rid of all of them. 20180714 01:10:41<+discordbot1> They never really worked outside children books. 20180714 01:10:46<+discordbot1> ^ 20180714 01:11:20<+discordbot1> Not only is it a free coupon to get your writing potentially labeled as sexist, it's just dumb and uninspired. 20180714 01:11:43<+discordbot1> The problem with a prototypical damsel-in-distress narrative is the reduction of female characters to motivation for the (almost always) male protagonist while removing all agency from the female character. 20180714 01:11:57<+discordbot1> The whole point is that Wesnoth's writing overall falls into the uninspired school of shovelware game writing. 20180714 01:12:23<+discordbot1> (Overall. Exceptions do exist, but they are horribly hard to come across within the first few hours of playtime.) 20180714 01:12:41<+discordbot1> as I said, LoW & NR could do the trope better. 20180714 01:14:03<+discordbot1> my draft for NR still has Eryssa captured by orcs, and Tallin aids in her rescue, but she wouldn't be helpless and passive. 20180714 01:14:29<+discordbot1> that's the sort of thing I mean by better. 20180714 01:14:55<+discordbot1> I find it extremely hard in both cases to believe that two level 3 elvish magic users are somehow kept captive (in Cleodil's case, along with other elves) by a bunch of brutes. 20180714 01:15:12<+discordbot1> Then you should do a better job of conveying your meaning. 20180714 01:15:26<+discordbot1> (Saurians do have access to magic but nothing in the game or lore shows that it can be even remotely on par than elvish magic.) 20180714 01:15:26<+discordbot1> (sigurd) 20180714 01:16:08<+discordbot1> is Cleodil really a L3 on rescue? that sounds like she could be lowered to a L2 if the case 20180714 01:16:21<+discordbot1> Her portrait was drawn for a Shyde. 20180714 01:16:25<+discordbot1> She's always been a Shyde. 20180714 01:17:27<+discordbot1> And Anita I mean Eryssa is an Enchantress if my memory serves. 20180714 01:18:01<+discordbot1> Okay, she's a Sorceress. 20180714 01:18:26<+discordbot1> For one reason or another (I'll need a memory refresher here) she ends up kidnapped by... orcs? 20180714 01:18:32<+discordbot1> yes 20180714 01:18:48<+discordbot1> we'll have to work out a reason 20180714 01:18:56< celticminstrel> @sigurdfd - I have the distinct impression that by "doing the trope better" you actually mean things like subverting or deconstructing the trope. 20180714 01:19:20<+discordbot1> not at all 20180714 01:19:30<+discordbot1> Is the orcs' plan with Eryssa even explained atm? 20180714 01:19:32<+discordbot1> raises eyebrow 20180714 01:19:42<+discordbot1> no idea, shadowm 20180714 01:19:45< celticminstrel> Well, taking @Vultraz's example. 20180714 01:19:55< celticminstrel> That's not a straight damsel-in-distress trope. It's probably a subversion of it. 20180714 01:20:02< celticminstrel> But you said that was an example of doing it better, so... 20180714 01:20:04<+discordbot1> By the way 20180714 01:20:59<+discordbot1> (speaking of which, the Eloh sprite doesn't happen to be ready for 1.14.4 is it? It's due for 1.14.5, but 1.14.4 has taken a long time) 20180714 01:21:00<+discordbot1> celmin, yeah, after looking at it closer, it is a little on the suberversion side. 20180714 01:21:15< celticminstrel> "a little" 20180714 01:21:19<+discordbot1> @Vultraz No. 20180714 01:21:25<+discordbot1> 'k 20180714 01:21:44 * celticminstrel wonders where shadowm was going with that "by the way". 20180714 01:22:59<+discordbot1> Eh I need to think more about the question I was going to ask. 20180714 01:23:16< celmin> Fair enough. 20180714 01:23:33<+discordbot1> ftr, I think LoW's version of the trope is fine. 20180714 01:23:40< celmin> . . . 20180714 01:23:49<+discordbot1> It's really not. 20180714 01:23:54< celmin> No version of the trope is fine. 20180714 01:23:59<+discordbot1> Cleodil doesn't have any agency herself. 20180714 01:24:00<+discordbot1> FTR, it's not acceptable to engage in sexist or otherwise problematic tropes without subverting them. 20180714 01:24:02< celmin> And from what I've heard, almost nothing about LoW is fine. 20180714 01:24:20<+discordbot1> She exists to randomly show up in a cage in the elvish treasury scenario. 20180714 01:24:20< celmin> We need a LoW rewrite. 20180714 01:24:29< celmin> A good start would be for someone to write an outline. 20180714 01:24:31<+discordbot1> Then she spends the rest of the campaign being defined by her UNEXPLAINED attraction to Kalenz. 20180714 01:24:33<+discordbot1> or an LoW purge 20180714 01:24:34<+discordbot1> Then they marry. 20180714 01:24:39< celmin> I prefer a rewrite. 20180714 01:24:52<+discordbot1> rewrite HTTT 20180714 01:24:58<+discordbot1> does being rescued really count as completely unexplained? 20180714 01:24:59< celmin> HTTT doesn't really need it? 20180714 01:25:06<+discordbot1> it sorely does 20180714 01:25:20<+discordbot1> it's our flagship campaign and succcksss. 20180714 01:25:25<+discordbot1> So if the police come to your rescue you'll fall in love with the highest-ranking officer you see? 20180714 01:25:29< celmin> WTH is that last word Vult 20180714 01:25:40<+discordbot1> a drawn out "sucks" 20180714 01:25:53<+discordbot1> Because let's not forget that Kalenz is not a lone hero. 20180714 01:25:57<+discordbot1> He's commanding an army. 20180714 01:25:59< celmin> sigurdfd: I mean if you're rescued by a single person maybe, if you're rescued by an army… not so likely. 20180714 01:26:16<+discordbot1> not always. He is commanding an army. 20180714 01:26:52<+discordbot1> They were both performing their duty on both sides of the situation. 20180714 01:27:03< celmin> Anyway, rather than saying "this is fine" like that comic that keeps going around, can we like, actually talk about how to fix things instead? 20180714 01:27:08<+discordbot1> She can't just fall in love all of a sudden. That's not realistic for either gender. 20180714 01:27:16<+discordbot1> really, HTTT is long, its maps are bland, the characters are flat... 20180714 01:27:21<+discordbot1> Like I said, this kind of crap only works in children's books. 20180714 01:27:30<+discordbot1> Wesnoth is supposed to aim for higher than that. 20180714 01:27:34<+discordbot1> ok, so it needs dialog and things to show progress from that point. 20180714 01:27:53<+discordbot1> sigurd you really aren't making yourself look good here 20180714 01:29:32<+discordbot1> what's wrong with trying to do the trope appropriatlely for the modern times without subverting it? 20180714 01:30:28<+discordbot1> Because there’s no way to do that 20180714 01:31:26<+discordbot1> To be appropriate for a modern time is to undercut, subvert, or deconstruct the trope. 20180714 01:31:26< celmin> There is no appropriate way to do this trope. 20180714 01:31:40<+discordbot1> There exists no other way to “appropriately” do it 20180714 01:31:40-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180714 01:31:48< celmin> Yeah. 20180714 01:35:02< celticminstrel> sigurdfd: Please don't be this guy: https://i.imgur.com/c4jt321.png 20180714 01:35:41<+discordbot1> maybe undercut is what I was trying to get at. 20180714 01:35:59<+discordbot1> BY THE WAY 20180714 01:36:12<+discordbot1> I asked you two and Yumi last night about that review and I still haven't seen a link to it I don't think. 20180714 01:40:42<+discordbot1> Oh yeah that 20180714 01:41:06< irker683> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Charles Dang 59195f0274 MP Staging: move side nodes when changin AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180714 01:44:20<+discordbot1> https://steamcommunity.com/id/trar/recommended/599390/ 20180714 01:47:34<+discordbot1> "Not so. The developers claim that gameplay revolving primarily around luck...as opposed to, say, good mission design, or strategy one can master...makes for a more tactical and enjoyable experience. Okay then." 20180714 01:47:38<+discordbot1> I have a feeling we know this person. 20180714 01:47:44<+discordbot1> Or knew. 20180714 01:47:53<+discordbot1> There's something eerily familiar about that exact wording. 20180714 01:48:52<+discordbot1> Ok, I'm not the only one that thought something was off about that. That review sounds like the person was familar with the forums, but chose to post on steam. And seems like it might have been a delibrate hit piece. 20180714 01:49:29<+discordbot1> It was awfully quick after the steam release 20180714 01:49:52<+discordbot1> for it to be someone who'd first found out about it on steam 20180714 01:50:16<+discordbot1> The way they talk about us shows that they at least did their research, so they must've been around for a while. 20180714 01:50:42<+discordbot1> Whether they paid enough attention or were able to not take things out of context is an entirely different matter. 20180714 01:51:07<+discordbot1> Since that above is a prime example of cherry-picking. 20180714 01:51:13<+discordbot1> Moving on from that though... 20180714 01:52:47<+discordbot1> The points about writing also feel like cherry-picking. 20180714 01:52:59<+discordbot1> the constant citing of u.w.o shows they have knowledge of the game beyond the ~5 hours they put in on Steam 20180714 01:53:05<+discordbot1> Although they are not completely wrong. 20180714 01:53:20<+discordbot1> u.w.o is niche. 20180714 01:53:34<+discordbot1> Bringing up the Elvish Lady however is like bringing up AtS' Memory Controller unit. 20180714 01:53:49<+discordbot1> The Elvish Lady is a glorified prop (which is a problematic thing in and of itself). 20180714 01:54:28<+discordbot1> THoT of all campaigns uses an Elvish Sylph for a female elf of high authority instead. 20180714 01:54:51<+discordbot1> Enchantress. 20180714 01:55:01<+discordbot1> Not Sylph. 20180714 01:55:10<+discordbot1> And SotBE uses an Elvish Shyde instead. 20180714 01:55:53<+discordbot1> (Of course in both cases they are antagonists, because you almost never see independently-operating female characters in mainline if they're not enemies.) 20180714 01:56:50<+discordbot1> (What's her face from Liberty is the only exception I can think of right now, and she was originally written as a man.) 20180714 02:36:03<+discordbot1> a little late, but 20180714 02:37:16<+discordbot1> I personally find the tropes found in generic, typical fantasy writing to make use of extremely outdated views (partially as a byproduct of the fantasy genre being set in medieval times) 20180714 02:38:12<+discordbot1> so the writing comes across as what medieval ideals might be, e.g. Kalenz being a relatively even-tempered, chivalrous, noble hero 20180714 02:38:33<+discordbot1> and Cleodil being also a pacifistic, beautiful, calm, and supportive wife 20180714 02:38:52<+discordbot1> and, of course, without glaring or prominent flaws 20180714 02:39:37<+discordbot1> I agree with Vultraz in that we live in 2018, and stories and writing are no longer, and should no longer be constructed based on that form of writing 20180714 02:40:54<+discordbot1> besides the fact that continuing to use those tropes means that we are embracing backwards ideologies in writing, people have also beaten fantasy-genre cliches to death over and over again 20180714 02:41:10<+discordbot1> and I think continuing to use them would make Wesnoth no more than another LotR-clone without much unique lore to it 20180714 03:07:34-!- sigurdfd [sigurdfd@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has quit [] 20180714 03:56:18< celmin> It would probably better if it was a LotR clone rather than taking all the worst traits from LotR. 20180714 04:09:36<+discordbot1> indeed... 😂 20180714 04:18:17<+discordbot1> What if instead of removing LoW we simply disable it, pending re-introducing sometime in the future pending a rewrite. 20180714 04:19:24<+discordbot1> You know that LoW is the least of our problems? 20180714 04:19:34<+discordbot1> Again, HttT. 20180714 04:20:06<+discordbot1> I think you're being too quick to throw in the towel when there's not even been a 1.15.0 release yet. 20180714 04:41:43-!- irker683 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20180714 05:07:57-!- irker634 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 05:07:57< irker634> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 85e9b40495da / src/ (70 files in 6 dirs): GUI2: added/renamed widget data types aliases https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/85e9b40495dac6385af13f4fc1b90e5bfcf0a7ce 20180714 05:21:12< irker634> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 637e69f27173 / src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Used the return value of modal_dialog::show instead of an explicit retval check https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/637e69f27173fb55a396eefe98a2cbbc5c662257 20180714 05:21:15< irker634> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master c0b09315d1a6 / src/ (game_launcher.cpp gui/dialogs/language_selection.hpp): Language Selection: declared an execute function https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c0b09315d1a67be30aaf82d09d06f594d0d5d2ed 20180714 05:58:11< irker634> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 08d907e5708e / src/gui/dialogs/multiplayer/mp_join_game.cpp: add a comment https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/08d907e5708e8eed46471b03d41c0384e92b407e 20180714 06:09:14<+discordbot1> I guess my question would be whether Wesnoth is meant to be medieval-based culturally or not. Because if it is, then while that doesn't mean there can't be strong (non-evil) female characters, to do that accurately would necessarily mean that gender roles would generally be rather backwards compared to modern times. It's no excuse for poor writing, don't get me wrong, but it seems like it would be good to set how "medieval" 20180714 06:09:15<+discordbot1> of a "medieval fantasy" setting this is supposed to be. 20180714 06:09:53<+discordbot1> also, while I don't really follow Wesnoth lore much, I'm assuming Wikipedia's description of the plot has issues. 20180714 06:09:54<+discordbot1> Real medieval Europe had some strong female characters though. This is common misconception that it didn't. 20180714 06:10:09<+discordbot1> Starts out with: "The story is based on a Medieval heroic romance of a ancient German prince called Konrad I." 20180714 06:10:28<+discordbot1> Yeah idk where whoever wrote that pulled that stuff from. 20180714 06:13:14<+discordbot1> Anyway, if I can add my 2 cents, I think you guys are focusing too much on the story. This is not strength of Wesnoth and I don't think it ever will be. I would rather have interesting mechanics and well designed battles. There are already many campaigns that focus on story. 20180714 06:13:50<+discordbot1> @Landiss Right. My point is that, in general, what would have been considered the role of women back then would be radically different than today in most parts of the world. 20180714 06:14:18<+discordbot1> @Landiss Agreed. In a video game, ga,eplay is king. The story is secondary. 20180714 06:15:30<+discordbot1> but this is also high fantasy, and not aiming to be particularly accurate to history even for the humans for anything in particular, so it's pretty open. 20180714 06:15:49<+discordbot1> I won't disagree with what you're saying regarding gameplay vs story 20180714 06:15:52<+discordbot1> but rather I'll say that right now 20180714 06:16:00<+discordbot1> the story is poor enough that it needs fixing 20180714 06:16:12<+discordbot1> also I think something not being the primary focus doesn't mean something acknowledged as bad shouldn't be fixed 20180714 06:16:15<+discordbot1> yes 20180714 06:16:31<+discordbot1> and forgive me for not focusing on the gameplay, I'm more of a writer than a player 20180714 06:16:38<+discordbot1> although I play plenty as wel 20180714 06:17:04<+discordbot1> Yeah. Just be careful not to make too big gameplay changes in order to be able to change the story. 20180714 06:17:06<+discordbot1> also, if it's been bad for years already, I don't see the pressing need to remove it pending a non-defined future rewrite. 20180714 06:17:28<+discordbot1> The part where the gameplay vs. story argument falls apart is what vultraz was discussing with us last night. 20180714 06:17:32<+discordbot1> @Pentarctagon to address your question, whether or not Wesnoth is medievally based (cultrally) is irrelevant from a writing standpoint 20180714 06:17:37<+discordbot1> if you are interested 20180714 06:17:40<+discordbot1> There aren't enough compelling stories in mainline. 20180714 06:17:42<+discordbot1> I will point you to the book "The Mists of Avalon" 20180714 06:17:56<+discordbot1> And in particular, the ones that introduce you to the game are not compelling at all. 20180714 06:18:10<+discordbot1> it's a classic retelling of the Arthurian myth, but told from the point of view of Morgan le Fay 20180714 06:18:20<+discordbot1> AOI is intentionally simple, TSG is good, Two Brothers is... okay, I guess. HttT is bad. 20180714 06:18:35<+discordbot1> it's definitely possible to acknowledge the medieval culture and tropes 20180714 06:18:38<+discordbot1> (By simple I mean that AOI's plot basically doesn't exist.) 20180714 06:18:47<+discordbot1> Well, sure, but personally I would rather prefer if you would rather cut out things then add things, when it comes to story. The game really doesn't need long dialogs in each campaign. I love reading, I read at least a book a week, but I find reading in Wesnoth sometimes a chore and I skip it. And I don't think you can do anything to change that, really. 20180714 06:18:48<+discordbot1> while developing themes and characters separately 20180714 06:19:00<+discordbot1> idk 20180714 06:19:04<+discordbot1> people seemed to love the dialogue in my campaign 20180714 06:19:07<+discordbot1> I think you played it too? 20180714 06:19:18<+discordbot1> And yes, @shadowm, I was talking in general, including UMC campaigns 20180714 06:19:26<+discordbot1> Do not count UMC campaigns. 20180714 06:19:44<+discordbot1> A player trying out Wesnoth will not look at those hoping to find a gem in there that's better than mainline. 20180714 06:20:04<+discordbot1> You have a small amount of time to get the player engaged in single-player. 20180714 06:20:10<+discordbot1> @Yumi I only started it and well, I think that's exactly good point, it's not something I'm interested in. Of course people are different, I'm simply stating my own preferences. 20180714 06:20:35<+discordbot1> And that's a quest where both gameplay and story need to complement each other in order to succeed. 20180714 06:20:38<+discordbot1> I think that's fair, people have different preferences and it's fine to have a different opinion 20180714 06:20:58<+discordbot1> however, I would then provide the counter argument 20180714 06:21:06<+discordbot1> you can feel free to skip the text 20180714 06:21:10<+discordbot1> and it doesn't affect gameplay 20180714 06:21:41<+discordbot1> Yeah, but I would prefer to know what is going on, in general. But yeah, I do sometimes skip text. 20180714 06:22:24<+discordbot1> again, that's fair 20180714 06:22:54<+discordbot1> it's just that to write an at least somewhat compelling story 20180714 06:23:03<+discordbot1> a certain amount of text is required 20180714 06:23:38<+discordbot1> And indeed, different players have different preferences. 20180714 06:24:04<+discordbot1> I played through a JRPG called "The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel" late last year. 20180714 06:24:14<+discordbot1> I'm afraid that the writer in me won't let me agree with you if you say that story is unimportant, though 😛 20180714 06:24:17<+discordbot1> I think cutting text is the most important part of writing text. 20180714 06:24:24<+discordbot1> you're not wrong 20180714 06:24:28<+discordbot1> It co0ntains an absolutely insane amount of text. Yet, I loved it and wanted to even see everything that the NPCFs had to say. 20180714 06:24:34<+discordbot1> but don't confuse that with having not enough material either 20180714 06:24:35<+discordbot1> Most games that use text are really bad at this and Wesnoth is not an exception. 20180714 06:24:42<+discordbot1> no, no, sure, you are right 20180714 06:25:18<+discordbot1> one of the most important things amateur writers (me included) learn to do 20180714 06:25:21<+discordbot1> is to cut story text 20180714 06:25:38<+discordbot1> this is why you find a lot of amateur novels with 200k, 300k, 400k+ words 20180714 06:25:45<+discordbot1> and as writers grow in skill and experience 20180714 06:25:50<+discordbot1> the novels grow shorter 20180714 06:26:02<+discordbot1> so I absolutely agree with you 20180714 06:26:17<+discordbot1> but even knowing that, there must be enough material, and actually in some of the campaigns 20180714 06:26:18<+discordbot1> there just isn't 20180714 06:26:52<+discordbot1> Yeah, I agree with that, for me it simply is not a priority 20180714 06:28:04<+discordbot1> so right now, a rewrite includes both plot, story, and gameplay revisions 20180714 06:28:23<+discordbot1> oh, I see 20180714 06:28:23<+discordbot1> wait 20180714 06:28:25<+discordbot1> that's 3 things 20180714 06:28:27<+discordbot1> lol. 20180714 06:28:28<+discordbot1> anyway 20180714 06:28:37<+discordbot1> I only saw the plot discussed 20180714 06:28:39<+discordbot1> likely I will have a say in or be handling plot/story revisions 20180714 06:28:45<+discordbot1> that's why I tend to focus on those 20180714 06:28:49<+discordbot1> gameplay revision is very important 20180714 06:28:55<+discordbot1> but this will be up to the person coding the scenarios 20180714 06:29:12<+discordbot1> wouldn't it be good to discuss that as well? 20180714 06:29:19<+discordbot1> absolutely 20180714 06:29:36<+discordbot1> I've actually discussed some NR gameplay with a couple of players 20180714 06:29:45<+discordbot1> just to get an idea of what they enjoy 20180714 06:29:52<+discordbot1> and how to improve it 20180714 06:30:12<+discordbot1> Still, gameplay is secondary. When writing a game story, it's important that the story doesn't force the hand of gameplay too much. Especially so if it's an existing campaign where players love the existing gameplay. 20180714 06:30:46<+discordbot1> I won't agree or disagree with that 20180714 06:30:54<+discordbot1> but please remember, I've written a fairly complex and complete campaign 20180714 06:31:04<+discordbot1> so I have some experience in writing a story that fits into the Wesnoth campaign style 20180714 06:31:40<+discordbot1> it depends on what Vultraz wants me to do with regard to the story 20180714 06:31:49<+discordbot1> but if I'm creating a detailed outline for rewrites 20180714 06:31:59<+discordbot1> Yeah, that is interesting point. There is an article somewhere in the "Create" pages that says the opposite - that a campaing should first have a story and gameplay comes after that, as that is easier to create. But that was about new campaigns, not rewrites. I can't really say, as I have no experience, but I think the person who wrote that had some good reasons to do that. 20180714 06:32:01<+discordbot1> I'm definitely keeping gameplay in mind while doing the writing 20180714 06:33:23<+discordbot1> also it sounds like it would be good to decide what order things are being rewritten in. So far it's NR, HttT, and LoW, and I assume all of them can't be done simultaneously. 20180714 06:33:37<+discordbot1> As for the gameplay itself, I urge you - set some limit on how many f... cave scenarios you put in a campaign (and in a row). It really is a chore in 90% cases. Even in IftU, which has very beautiful cave scenarios, it started to be a chore after a couple. 20180714 06:34:00<+discordbot1> Oh hi 20180714 06:34:13<+discordbot1> Yeah I like cave scenarios but dw I'm not designing gameplay for mainline lol 20180714 06:34:37<+discordbot1> I like the attention to visual details in your maps 20180714 06:34:53<+discordbot1> That is something that many cave scenarios are missing in most campaigns 20180714 06:35:05<+discordbot1> But that enough is not enough for me to play yet another cave map 😄 20180714 06:38:52<+discordbot1> I do have a comment on Yumi's writing though. 20180714 06:40:00<+discordbot1> If I had to rank campaigns on a scale of dialogue formality, I'd do it more or less like this. 20180714 06:41:06<+discordbot1> > TRoW > IftU/AtS > HttT > Genesis / Northern Rebirth 20180714 06:41:14<+discordbot1> You decide exactly what that means. 20180714 06:46:43<+discordbot1> I dont really like cave maps tbh 20180714 06:46:46<+discordbot1> either* 20180714 06:51:37<+discordbot1> I can write in multiple styles 20180714 06:51:41<+discordbot1> btw 20180714 06:51:57<+discordbot1> of course my preferred one is the one I use in my campaign 😛 20180714 06:52:58<+discordbot1> @Pentarctagon I like that rewrite order 20180714 06:53:17<+discordbot1> it depends on how many coders we have to do the WML for the scenarios though 20180714 06:53:55<+discordbot1> as to how fast the rewrites can be done, I mean 20180714 06:54:19<+discordbot1> ah, about caves, there is one thing about UI design that I always thought should be improved, especially important for caves. Right now the way how your movement range (possible moves) is shown, works really bad with terrain that is very dark (and doesn't work with completely black terrain, like abyss). Do you think it would be possible to implement additional line showing the edge of possible movement? Or, well, I guess 20180714 06:54:20<+discordbot1> everything is possible, but would someone be interested doing that? 20180714 06:54:40<+discordbot1> that's a message for the forums or a github issue 20180714 06:54:51<+discordbot1> it'll get buried here 20180714 06:55:31<+discordbot1> yeah, I was thinking of creating github issue, but I'm not sure if it's a realistic idea at all and don't want to spend too much describing it in detail, as github or forum post would need 20180714 06:56:34<+discordbot1> (unless I at least learn here that more people share my view that this part should be improved) 20180714 06:57:34<+discordbot1> I also agree with you, but like you said, there needs to be someone to work on it 20180714 07:36:53< irker634> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 DisherProject ae088f4ce2 DM: add some TODOs AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180714 07:44:28<+discordbot1> @jyrkive funny enough, my philosophy is entirely the opposite. I think good story can trump bad gameplay. 🤔 20180714 07:44:46<+discordbot1> though i guess the other way around is also true 20180714 07:45:05<+discordbot1> but besides Dota, I don't really play games for the gameplay. I play them for the story. 20180714 07:46:44<+discordbot1> Have you thought about reading visual novels? If you dion't care about gameplay, you can just as well remove it from the equation. 20180714 07:47:00<+discordbot1> eh... 20180714 07:49:08<+discordbot1> No, and I don't mean gameplay is irrelevant. I just somewhat agree with your assertion that gameplay is always more important than story. A game like Life is Strange is just a game in which you walk around and look at stuff and talk to people, which sounds boring, but the world and story and characters make it engaing. 20180714 07:49:54<+discordbot1> With Wesnoth, gameplay is rather limited. 20180714 07:50:14<+discordbot1> So my view is it needs to be augmented with good story 20180714 07:50:38<+discordbot1> Mainline Wesnoth's gameplay is repetitive af. 20180714 07:50:55<+discordbot1> I like it. 😃 20180714 07:50:58<+discordbot1> Pretty much everyone agrees on this. 20180714 07:51:03<+discordbot1> It'd probably be helpful if more interesting things were done with WML in many cases. 20180714 07:51:06<+discordbot1> When a UMC scenario comes along that changes up the gameplay, it's a break of fresh air. 20180714 07:51:10<+discordbot1> breath 20180714 07:51:19<+discordbot1> AtS E3S4 20180714 07:51:50<+discordbot1> One of the main criticisms of my campaigns is that when they're doing cave scenarios, they're doing vanilla mainline gameplay. 20180714 07:52:06<+discordbot1> And people get bored of that really quickly. 20180714 07:52:24<+discordbot1> I didn't, but I can see how it could be 20180714 07:52:35<+discordbot1> which is why I find jyrki's take odd 20180714 07:52:53<+discordbot1> If you pay closer attention to the MP community even, you'll notice that people tend to mix it up with add-ons that change core mechanics or reapply them into different unique scenarios (no pun intended). 20180714 07:52:54<+discordbot1> My "odd take" is that gameplay is more important? 20180714 07:53:17<+discordbot1> I think it's the majority opinion. 20180714 07:53:20<+discordbot1> So it's not just a singleplayer vs. crazy MP people issue. 20180714 07:53:38<+discordbot1> Wesnoth is just not particularly replayable unless you're into doing the same things over and over with bigger numbers. 20180714 07:53:50<+discordbot1> When applied to wesnoth, because wesnoth's gameplay is limited 20180714 07:55:04<+discordbot1> @shadowm "Mainline Wesnoth's gameplay is repetitive af." Yes, after you spent 500 hours playing Wesnoth, it might be. 20180714 07:55:06<+discordbot1> if gameplay is more important, and our gameplay is limited and repetitive, then surely our game isn't great.... right? 🤔 20180714 07:55:15<+discordbot1> @Vultraz Do you play any strategy games at all? 20180714 07:55:24<+discordbot1> Like I said, I like Wesnoth's gameplay. 20180714 07:55:25<+discordbot1> which is surely why we need good story 20180714 07:55:42<+discordbot1> @Landiss not really 20180714 07:56:14<+discordbot1> I thought so, because they usually have no story or crap story. But the appeal is still there, in the gameplay. It's the same for me with Wesnoth. 20180714 07:58:41<+discordbot1> I mean, I said I played Dota 20180714 07:58:47<+discordbot1> You need to bear in mind that Wesnoth isn't your typical strategy game. 20180714 07:58:50<+discordbot1> That’s 100% gameplay 20180714 07:59:26<+discordbot1> We literally sell the game based on its high fantasy theme. 20180714 07:59:38<+discordbot1> We've done this for about 10 years. 20180714 07:59:39<+discordbot1> Wesnoth at its core it's not that far from panzer general, which is as typical strategy game as they come 20180714 07:59:42<+discordbot1> (Previously it was just "fantasy".) 20180714 08:00:01<+discordbot1> And we also push the mainline campaigns to the front in marketing material. 20180714 08:00:04<+discordbot1> and if it's theme you are after, there was Fantasy General as well (very good too, I must say) 20180714 08:00:18<+discordbot1> For one, I wasn't really interested about Wesnoth's theme. 20180714 08:00:31<+discordbot1> It could just as well have been about fighting aliens in space for all I care. 20180714 08:00:33<+discordbot1> So if you think we shouldn't work on improving their substance maybe we should just get rid of them all and focus on multiplayer. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 20180714 08:00:39<+discordbot1> The gameplay is what piqued my interest. 20180714 08:00:59<+discordbot1> You can have your opinion about the story being inconsequential but that doesn't mean opposite views are invalid. 20180714 08:01:00<+discordbot1> I'm not sure why you seem to think gameplay is somehow related to multiplayer only. 20180714 08:01:20<+discordbot1> For example I was fully drawn by the story... of a user-made add-on. 20180714 08:01:29<+discordbot1> No one said the opposite views are invalid though. 20180714 08:01:36<+discordbot1> (Which then became part of mainline's Expert tier campaigns.) 20180714 08:02:06<+discordbot1> Which one? 20180714 08:02:48<+discordbot1> UtBS, mainlined in version 1.1.2. 20180714 08:03:24<+discordbot1> I didn't think too much of the game's lore overall until I got my hands on that campaign in particular. 20180714 08:03:25<+discordbot1> yeah, I thought so. And well, while it does have a story, it also have at the time innovative mechanics and interesting gameplay 20180714 08:04:14<+discordbot1> I think without the latter, it would not be interesting 20180714 08:05:41<+discordbot1> Anyway, this is of course a matter of personal taste. I'm not saying story should not be fleshed out, still personally I would prefer if more thought was put into the gameplay. I can skip bad story. I can't skip bad gameplay. 20180714 08:41:54-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180714 08:42:00-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 09:43:03< irker634> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Charles Dang e62ec5f806 GUI2/Tree View: use NOTIFY_MODIFIED even AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180714 09:43:36-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 10:06:36-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 10:33:44-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 10:38:49-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180714 10:46:27-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@1.120.98.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180714 11:05:34-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 11:13:51-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180714 11:20:29-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 12:40:06< irker634> wesnoth/wesnoth:master gfgtdf 08d907e570 add a comment AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180714 12:43:42-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180714 12:44:50-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 12:49:08-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180714 12:49:16-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 12:49:35-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180714 12:50:35-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 12:56:16-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20180714 12:57:05-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 12:59:38-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.178.69.90] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 13:00:11-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Client Quit] 20180714 13:00:50-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 13:01:51-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Client Quit] 20180714 13:02:24-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 13:41:15-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180714 13:41:37-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 13:57:49< irker634> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:1.14 05550e23b1d8 / data/core/terrain.cfg: Help: Hide "Lit Stone Wall" terrain (#2966) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/05550e23b1d8921335d1f3ec65d3eeffd2b61b21 20180714 13:58:34-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20180714 14:00:43< irker634> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:master d11d8ec8e11d / data/core/terrain.cfg: Help: Hide "Lit Stone Wall" terrain (#2966) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/d11d8ec8e11d0a73b92d07eacc6ba191e4703945 20180714 14:06:23< mattsc> Hi All. I keep hearing that the AI was improved from 1.12 to 1.14. Does anybody know what people are talking about? 20180714 14:06:38< mattsc> celmin did a lot of refactoring of the AI code, but that did not change AI behavior. I added and improved some of the Micro AIs, but those are not the default AI. 20180714 14:07:08<+discordbot1> Maybe it's the fixes and improvements to damage prediction? 20180714 14:07:14< mattsc> The only thing I can think of was that it is no longer possible to exploit the 1-XP-from-advancing issue, but that happens so rarely it's not really an overall improvement. There were also bug fixes and some changes to how the AI deal swith tunnels and hidden units, but again, except for some very special cases those should not really be visible to the player (no pun intended). 20180714 14:07:24< mattsc> As far as I remember the 1.12 and 1.14 default AIs are pretty much the same. 20180714 14:08:27< mattsc> @jyrkive Maybe, but that does not make the AI be more careful and stay on good terrain or anything like that … (again, there might be the occasional situation where it does, but not in general) 20180714 14:15:14-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180714 15:06:23-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: wedge009] 20180714 15:15:43-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 15:39:22-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 16:04:19-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.178.69.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180714 16:13:09<+discordbot1> hmm. 20180714 16:13:25<+discordbot1> did anyone here play HoMM 3? 20180714 16:14:01< Ravana_> once tried, didn't like, I was used to 4 already 20180714 16:14:16<+discordbot1> ah, okay 20180714 16:14:31<+discordbot1> I kinda see where jyrki and Landiss are coming from, thinking about that game 20180714 16:14:40<+discordbot1> since I didn't care about the campaigns at all, but loved the gameplay 20180714 16:15:09<+discordbot1> HoMM 4 was like that to me, too. 20180714 16:15:24<+discordbot1> I actually skipped 4 and went straight to 5 20180714 16:15:35<+discordbot1> I rather liked 5 too, but not as much as 3 20180714 16:17:20-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20180714 16:20:34-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 16:20:49<+discordbot1> yeah 20180714 16:21:26<+discordbot1> other people are also saying that what kept them from playing certain campaigns was bad gameplay 20180714 16:21:37<+discordbot1> and good gameplay can make a mediocre story okay 20180714 16:22:12<+discordbot1> Meanwhile, I believe that even a good story cannot save bad gameplay. 20180714 16:22:48<+discordbot1> alas, it needs to be Vultraz agreeing with you 20180714 16:22:56<+discordbot1> or whoever's doing the scenario designing 20180714 16:23:23<+discordbot1> (I think Vultraz intends to do it, but maybe he has someone else in mind?) 20180714 16:25:26<+discordbot1> Hopefully they'll be open to feedback, at least. 20180714 16:25:27<+discordbot1> actually, to be fair, he didn't say gameplay was unimportant 20180714 16:25:39<+discordbot1> pretty sure he very much wants to improve it too 20180714 16:44:38<+discordbot1> Yeah, I played homm 3 a lot. For years actually. I couldn't tell you anything about the story except that it was bad. 20180714 16:45:41<+discordbot1> And I did play the campaigns, at least most of the default ones. 20180714 17:01:16-!- irker634 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20180714 17:03:17-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.178.69.90] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 17:06:41< celmin> @Yumi I used to play the HoMM3 demo and more recently obtained the full game 20180714 17:18:27-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.178.69.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180714 17:37:23-!- irker831 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 17:37:23< irker831> wesnoth: sigurdfdragon wesnoth:master d0931ae9cf23 / data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/utils/sides.cfg: DM: Fixup 370e50c https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/d0931ae9cf2362eef8bc3fe6ad9ff7932883fa37 20180714 17:38:29-!- DeFender1031 [~DeFender1@93-173-122-186.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 17:38:58< irker831> wesnoth: sigurdfdragon wesnoth:1.14 2001fc81ee26 / data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/utils/sides.cfg: DM: Fixup fc62a2c https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/2001fc81ee26d131460d62dc1a97b420c2c5546e 20180714 17:40:06-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4dba8862.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 17:40:27< gfgtdf> what's the plan for the 1.14.4 tag? in 4h or a day later ? 20180714 17:40:53<+discordbot1> In four hors. 20180714 17:41:05<+discordbot1> A day after would be July 16. 20180714 17:41:44< gfgtdf> i just saw july 15 and it was uncelar at which time of july 15. 20180714 17:42:31<+discordbot1> It's 00:01 UTC (as the channel topic here in Discord shows). 20180714 17:42:51<+discordbot1> And Vultraz is using 00:01 UTC specifically to make it clear which day he means. 20180714 17:43:21< gfgtdf> here on irc it doesnt say. 20180714 17:43:38-!- JyrkiVesterinen [~JyrkiVest@85-23-197-3.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 17:44:30-!- JyrkiVesterinen changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Wesnoth Developers Channel | >>> Want to help? Go here: https://r.wesnoth.org/t42911 (and thanks!) <<< | Discord Server: https://discord.gg/battleforwesnoth | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | 1.14.4 scheduled for Sunday, July 15th, 00:01 UTC 20180714 17:44:38-!- JyrkiVesterinen [~JyrkiVest@85-23-197-3.bb.dnainternet.fi] has left #wesnoth-dev ["Closing Window"] 20180714 17:44:43<+discordbot1> Added. 20180714 17:45:37< gfgtdf> ok thx 20180714 17:47:47<+discordbot1> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/467749061252874251/too_big_checkbox.png 20180714 17:47:59<+discordbot1> This new option... any idea why there is so much space? 20180714 17:48:02-!- sigurdfd [sigurdfd@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 17:48:16< gfgtdf> for security issu just file a normla bugreport or is ther a better playce to dicuss ? 20180714 17:49:02<+discordbot1> There is an IRC channel called #wesnoth-dev-nonpublic. 20180714 17:52:07-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.178.69.90] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 17:59:38<+discordbot1> @Vultraz gfgtdf spotted a severe security issue. I recommend delaying 1.14.4 until it's fixed. 20180714 18:01:58-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.178.69.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20180714 18:09:46-!- sigurdfd [sigurdfd@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has quit [] 20180714 18:23:29-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180714 18:23:35-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 18:37:31< irker831> wesnoth/wesnoth:master sigurdfdragon d0931ae9cf DM: Fixup 370e50c AppVeyor: vs2015/Release Failed 20180714 18:37:32< irker831> Details: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-master-4222 20180714 18:46:44< irker831> wesnoth: Severin Glöckner wesnoth:1.14 5654e49c3a0c / data/campaigns/The_Hammer_of_Thursagan/scenarios/06_High_Pass.cfg: THoT S06: imorive mage appearance event https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/5654e49c3a0c4e66c6023a9ce80cc510be7b2641 20180714 18:46:46< irker831> wesnoth: Severin Glöckner wesnoth:1.14 ee2631ed3519 / po/ (9 files in 9 dirs): updated German translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ee2631ed3519484492e14db97add0a53eea1c391 20180714 18:51:41< celmin> Spelling… :( 20180714 18:51:52< celmin> Or rather, typos. 20180714 19:15:15<+discordbot1> I always notice them after pushing ... 20180714 19:37:30< irker831> wesnoth: josteph wesnoth:1.14 60e0311a1874 / data/campaigns/The_Hammer_of_Thursagan/scenarios/04_Troll_Bridge.cfg: THoT S4: Let the enemy recruit level 2 units on normal difficulty. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/60e0311a1874912ea0acd41baaf25acd24b117cd 20180714 19:37:32< irker831> wesnoth: josteph wesnoth:1.14 a07a259f127a / data/campaigns/The_Hammer_of_Thursagan/scenarios/03_Strange_Allies.cfg: THoT S3: Marth-Tak faces east before hailing Aiglondur. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/a07a259f127a0e549819f9d87f4c76b5d14ca288 20180714 19:37:34< irker831> wesnoth: josteph wesnoth:1.14 a1ab372b6270 / data/campaigns/The_Hammer_of_Thursagan/scenarios/06_High_Pass.cfg: THoT S6: Highlight the hut mentioned in dialog. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/a1ab372b6270ef0fe74cb360a6521ac9c72f3f4d 20180714 19:41:50< irker831> wesnoth: Severin Glöckner wesnoth:master 3c57546e8932 / data/campaigns/The_Hammer_of_Thursagan/scenarios/06_High_Pass.cfg: THoT S6: improve mage appearance event https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/3c57546e8932d576182570ba01c0e9e8c3f466f7 20180714 19:41:52< irker831> wesnoth: josteph wesnoth:master fbd08b006e5b / data/campaigns/The_Hammer_of_Thursagan/scenarios/04_Troll_Bridge.cfg: THoT S4: Let the enemy recruit level 2 units on normal difficulty. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/fbd08b006e5bce8256288d156d7ef8fc7794b286 20180714 19:41:54< irker831> wesnoth: josteph wesnoth:master 96fffa218259 / data/campaigns/The_Hammer_of_Thursagan/scenarios/03_Strange_Allies.cfg: THoT S3: Marth-Tak faces east before hailing Aiglondur. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/96fffa218259aee20935fec25ae38bb39f08979e 20180714 19:41:56< irker831> wesnoth: josteph wesnoth:master f4aa5ac66a04 / data/campaigns/The_Hammer_of_Thursagan/scenarios/06_High_Pass.cfg: THoT S6: Highlight the hut mentioned in dialog. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f4aa5ac66a047907894d0f1916a825aa60020775 20180714 19:56:20<+discordbot1> @sevu I have no idea why it does that. Bunch of options do. 20180714 20:01:09< celmin> ? 20180714 20:01:41<+discordbot1> he asked about advanced preferences' descriptions having so much extra space 20180714 20:09:22<+discordbot1> we won't be having 1.14.4 today 20180714 20:17:57-!- hrubymar10 [~textual@nat19.interconnect.cz] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 20:19:33-!- hrubymar10 [~textual@nat19.interconnect.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 20180714 20:20:21<+discordbot1> Vultraz, I just synced my PR #3332 https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/3332 20180714 20:36:02<+discordbot1> The last commit ist strange, it contain all what happened in 1.14 recently 20180714 20:37:55<+discordbot1> best drop it with git rebase -i HEAD, and update with git pull --rebase. In case you can't rebase because of uncomitted changes, you can use git stash before and git stash pop afterwards. 20180714 20:40:41< irker831> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Jyrki Vesterinen 05550e23b1 Help: Hide "Lit Stone Wall" terrain (#29 AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180714 20:48:29-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.178.69.90] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 21:31:42-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@1.120.98.249] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 21:43:21-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20180714 21:48:21-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180714 21:48:27-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 21:54:37< irker831> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:1.14 e9026f837f66 / / (6 files in 6 dirs): updated Czech translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/e9026f837f660db6ad12271c5fa1da08c9e85578 20180714 21:54:45< irker831> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master e4da51adc319 / po/ (8 files in 8 dirs): updated Czech translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/e4da51adc319746e15970a63b4157340e0115573 20180714 22:08:59-!- mode/#wesnoth-dev [+o ShikadiQueen] by ChanServ 20180714 22:09:02-!- mode/#wesnoth-dev [-bo *!*@185.9.19.107 ShikadiQueen] by ShikadiQueen 20180714 22:18:37-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-211-235-32.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 22:18:38< travis-ci> hryniuk/wesnoth#1 (rename-in-recall-window - 7fd18aa : Łukasz Hryniuk): The build passed. 20180714 22:18:38< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.com/hryniuk/wesnoth/builds/79011647 20180714 22:18:38-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-211-235-32.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180714 23:17:35-!- nurupo [~nurupo.ga@unaffiliated/nurupo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180714 23:19:23-!- nurupo [~nurupo.ga@unaffiliated/nurupo] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180714 23:37:31< irker831> wesnoth/wesnoth:master sigurdfdragon d0931ae9cf DM: Fixup 370e50c AppVeyor: 1/2 builds failed 20180714 23:37:32< irker831> Details vs2015/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-master-4222 --- Log closed Sun Jul 15 00:00:35 2018