--- Log opened Sun Jul 22 00:00:08 2018 20180722 00:17:45-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x55b3b7a5.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180722 00:18:13-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x55b3b7a5.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 01:01:43-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC6AAD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.] 20180722 01:06:43-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180722 01:06:49-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 01:12:17-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 01:13:22-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Client Quit] 20180722 01:32:16-!- rodix [uid5578@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rggckinpklbxucnq] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 01:50:19-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180722 01:50:25-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 01:54:33<+discordbot> ya 20180722 01:54:45<+discordbot> I like the way I look and I don't really care if people see my face or anything 20180722 01:55:02<+discordbot> If you have me on snapchat you'll most likely get a picture of my ass at one point because someone dared me to do it 20180722 02:05:28-!- iwaim [~iwaim@rasteenie.alib.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20180722 02:05:58-!- gfgtdf_ [~chatzilla@x4e337874.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 02:06:08-!- gfgtdf_ [~chatzilla@x4e337874.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20180722 02:07:55<+discordbot> im confus 20180722 02:07:57<+discordbot> bad moon rising 20180722 02:07:58<+discordbot> or whatever 20180722 02:08:00<+discordbot> seems dope ag 20180722 02:08:01<+discordbot> af 20180722 02:08:04<+discordbot> with the new units but like uhhh 20180722 02:08:05<+discordbot> confus 20180722 02:08:14-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x55b3b7a5.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20180722 02:10:08-!- Jordys [~Jordys@154.68.5.154] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180722 02:24:31<+discordbot> interesting 20180722 02:24:36<+discordbot> how confus are you? 20180722 02:33:26<+discordbot> pretty 20180722 02:33:26<+discordbot> hey 20180722 02:33:29<+discordbot> whaats the keybind to end tunrs? 20180722 02:33:46<+discordbot> ah ctrl space 20180722 02:34:32<+discordbot> can I connect to the 1.12 add-ons server on the 1.14 client? 20180722 02:43:05-!- iwaim [~iwaim@rasteenie.alib.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 02:46:16<+discordbot> whoever made the Ukian sprites did a REALLY good job 20180722 02:46:43< celmin> No Varicks 20180722 02:46:50< celmin> Probably not 20180722 02:47:10< celmin> Is the 1.12 addons server even still running, I wonder? 20180722 03:01:59-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180722 03:02:05-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 03:09:30<+discordbot> I think so. The 1.10 one was when I DL'd it a couple weeks back 20180722 03:12:24-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@cpe-2606-A000-7947-5000-7D3A-9D79-32FA-928A.dyn6.twc.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 03:14:38<+discordbot> you need to use the online addons server 20180722 03:17:53<+discordbot> DLed? 20180722 03:18:11<+discordbot> downloaded 😃 20180722 03:18:54<+discordbot> Oh, okay 20180722 03:19:28<+discordbot> Thanks. That's what I thought but I'm not familiar with some abbrievations. 20180722 03:19:40<+discordbot> *abbreviations 20180722 03:32:41<+discordbot> thonk 20180722 03:32:46<+discordbot> I think I mightve missed something but eh 20180722 03:32:56<+discordbot> "Death of Raenna" even though I dont have Raenna? 20180722 03:34:12<+discordbot> meh i cba to restart adn try to find her either 20180722 03:35:13<+discordbot> do you guys know how to disable grid mode 20180722 03:35:24<+discordbot> isn't raenna that iron mauler boi in AtoTB? 20180722 03:35:30<+discordbot> ctrl + g 20180722 03:35:48<+discordbot> thanks inky. im trying out your suggestion rn 20180722 03:36:04<+discordbot> and Varicks if I remember right, preferences > the visual option idk what it's called [it's been a while] 20180722 03:36:05<+discordbot> oh 20180722 03:36:12<+discordbot> or you can just follow inky 20180722 03:36:14<+discordbot> raenna is from bad moon rising 20180722 03:36:17<+discordbot> oh 20180722 03:39:00<+discordbot> sorry I've only done like 1 addon campaign 20180722 03:39:32<+discordbot> @Yumi Could you link me to where I can find the older add-on servers? 20180722 03:40:49<+discordbot> If you have the game you can use the game. 20180722 03:40:52-!- rodix [uid5578@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rggckinpklbxucnq] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180722 03:41:02<+discordbot> hmm yeah I suppose I could go install 1.12 20180722 03:41:03<+discordbot> (The older game versions I mean.) 20180722 03:41:12<+discordbot> Alternatively: http://addons.wesnoth.org/1.12/ 20180722 03:41:28<+discordbot> Thanks :thonk: 20180722 03:55:58-!- sigurdfd [sigurdfd@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 03:56:59-!- sigurdfd [sigurdfd@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20180722 04:26:46-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20180722 04:49:24-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180722 04:49:30-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 05:32:17<+discordbot> My download speed right now is less than 50 KiB/s. 20180722 05:32:26<+discordbot> My upload on the other hand is around 1 MiB/S. 20180722 05:32:40<+discordbot> I love my life. 20180722 05:33:50<+discordbot> IftU version 2.1.1 is out with the rebalanced AMLA tree for Elynia: https://r.wesnoth.org/p631308 20180722 06:03:35<+discordbot> Is there a way to show the whole advancement / AMLA tree ingame? units.wesnoth does so regarding unit advancements. I remember Kaleh in UtbS having a rather complex AMLA tree and it might be reasonable to display it 20180722 06:04:17<+discordbot> Not yet. 20180722 06:04:37<+discordbot> I proposed something ages ago but I didn't have the know-how to implement it myself and didn't post it anywhere permanent. 20180722 06:17:30<+discordbot> units.wesnoth.org is superior to ingame unit help anyway 20180722 06:19:19<+discordbot> it shows whole advancement trees, it does not block the game, it loads fast (the ingame help is oddly slow even on my new machine), imo the layout is more readable 20180722 06:20:05<+discordbot> I'm glad you somehow have faith in the biggest maintenance hurdle that's come out of this project. 20180722 06:20:39<+discordbot> units.wesnoth.org or ingame help? 20180722 06:20:54<+discordbot> Former. 20180722 06:21:02<+discordbot> yes its pretty great 20180722 06:21:48<+discordbot> also: for terrain defense & movecost, ingame help uses small difficult to decipher icons, while the small pictures of terrain on units.wesnoth.org are immediately obvious 20180722 06:22:13<+discordbot> also: ingame help, despite blocking the game, does not cover the whole screen so you have to scroll; no such problem with units.wesnoth.org 20180722 06:23:45<+discordbot> also: ingame help does not use icons for damage types, units.wesnoth.org does 20180722 06:25:31<+discordbot> I'm pretty sure nothing ever shows the whole AMLA tree though 20180722 06:25:39<+discordbot> for a unit like Kaleh 20180722 06:42:13<+discordbot> also: units.wesnoth.org lets you browse units by addon; ingame help shows only core+currentcampaign units in campaigns, and ALL units in multiplayer (not categorized by addon!?!?) 20180722 06:42:45<+discordbot> Because the concept of add-on units does not exist in Wesnoth yet. 20180722 06:42:54<+discordbot> It just sees a bunch of units. 20180722 06:54:09-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 07:49:18-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 08:14:09-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180722 08:14:15-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 08:24:21-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@1.121.100.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20180722 08:49:54<+discordbot> @Hyperwolf72 BMR is open world, that means, if you skip exploring a place, then you might not obtain units necessary for the story, e.g. Raenna. There is a village at the beginning that you didn't visit. 20180722 09:07:47-!- Crendgrim [~crend@unaffiliated/crendgrim] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 09:08:31-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20180722 09:08:32< Crendgrim> hi. I apologise for being AWOL for so long. Life has kept me way busier than I anticipated. 20180722 09:11:55<+discordbot> Hi there 20180722 09:11:59<+discordbot> wb 20180722 09:13:07< Crendgrim> oh, we do Discord now? 20180722 09:13:24< Crendgrim> hey. I see you're still active doing important things. Great to see :) 20180722 09:14:07<+discordbot> Somewhat active. 20180722 09:14:11<+discordbot> What does AWOL mean? 20180722 09:14:17<+discordbot> Away without official leave. 20180722 09:23:41< Crendgrim> so how are things holding up? I guess I missed most of the 1.13 cycle, even though it has been a long one. 20180722 09:33:44<+discordbot> We're on Steam now and stuff. 20180722 09:34:47<+discordbot> I guess that's exciting? 20180722 09:35:07<+discordbot> It's fun to be able to see how many hours you've played. 20180722 09:35:19<+discordbot> I rarely use the Steam build so 20180722 09:35:22<+discordbot> I'm happy with my 289 hours. 20180722 09:35:23<+discordbot> x 20180722 09:35:23<+discordbot> xD 20180722 09:35:35< Crendgrim> I saw that! Though on my friendslist no-one but ai has even started the game through Steam. Maybe I should do more advertisement in that regard.. 20180722 09:35:48<+discordbot> Did you unfriend me 20180722 09:36:17< Crendgrim> hm, I don't have you at least, but I don't remember doing so. 20180722 09:37:29<+discordbot> Weird 20180722 09:37:48<+discordbot> Oh 20180722 09:37:50<+discordbot> Well 20180722 09:37:58<+discordbot> There's the fact that my games are private as well so yeah 20180722 09:38:25-!- Guest68104 [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 09:38:35< Crendgrim> and your whole profile. heh. 20180722 09:39:19<+discordbot> I miss the old place of userdata inside game files.... 20180722 09:39:40<+discordbot> I don't miss the dozens of reports we got of Wesnoth breaking spectacularly on Windows 8.1 thanks to that. 20180722 09:40:04<+discordbot> How is that possible? 20180722 09:40:11<+discordbot> Because Microsoft 20180722 09:40:12<+discordbot> (I never had 8.1) 20180722 09:40:24<+discordbot> And also we weren't supposed to be doing that since Windows XP in the first place. 20180722 09:40:42<+discordbot> But lots of legacy apps did it so Windows XP kept supporting it. 20180722 09:40:53<+discordbot> Then Vista threw in a compatibility layer into the mix. 20180722 09:41:03<+discordbot> And then some update for Windows 8.1 and 7 started to break it? 20180722 09:41:16<+discordbot> That was IIRC right before Windows 10 was released. 20180722 09:41:20<+discordbot> Tehcnically XP didn't support storing settings and other dynamic data inside the program directory. 20180722 09:41:36<+discordbot> It passively supported it if you were logged into the right account. 20180722 09:41:43<+discordbot> I have no problem with that on W7. Or even 10. 20180722 09:41:45<+discordbot> It just worked as long as the user is an administrator, and new user accounts were admins on XP by default. 20180722 09:42:42<+discordbot> Any way it was sooo mutch more comfortable for me. 20180722 09:44:36< Ravana_> I solved it by putting wesnoth to nonadmin directory 20180722 09:44:52<+discordbot> Yeah I'm sure you did that. 20180722 09:45:36<+discordbot> It's not exactly impossible to get around it if you get creative: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=43342 (see "new user files location"). 20180722 09:45:46<+discordbot> (Can someone please make a step-by-step guide on the wiki for me) 20180722 09:46:11<+discordbot> That also happens to be the last release I personally oversaw. 20180722 09:46:34<+discordbot> It's entirely coincidental though. Just a fun fact. 20180722 09:51:07<+discordbot> You're still posting the announcements. Who's the release manager now? 20180722 09:52:04< Ravana_> I use linux now so I just linked normal userdata location to where I want to have it 20180722 09:52:20-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 09:52:34<+discordbot> You can also create symbolic links on Windows. 20180722 09:54:10<+discordbot> What's the wesnoth stance on the f*** word in addons? 20180722 09:55:02<+discordbot> The only swear words we allow are "damn" and "god" and "goddamn" because they are pretty soft. 20180722 09:55:22<+discordbot> Anything else would fall under the category of add-ons that need to include a disclaimer of some sort regarding mature content I reckon. 20180722 09:55:34<+discordbot> Good, I wasn't sure what to tell him with what to replace it. ^^ 20180722 09:55:37<+discordbot> @Crendgrim Vultraz is. 20180722 09:55:47< Crendgrim> "swear words", "god"... heh. 20180722 09:56:07<+discordbot> And I'm only posting them because when it was time to release 1.14.0 on May 1st he was too preoccupied with other things. 20180722 09:56:22< Crendgrim> ah right. :) 20180722 09:56:36<+discordbot> And I'm also able to get them done faster. 20180722 09:57:16<+discordbot> While he can focus on uh doing things to master/1.15.0-dev. 20180722 09:58:10<+discordbot> Terrible, horrible, unspeakable things! 20180722 09:58:12<+discordbot> xD 20180722 09:58:53<+discordbot> That's an accurate description of what it takes to delve into our GUI engine. 20180722 09:59:09< Crendgrim> ohh, the GUI is getting reworked? 20180722 09:59:56< Crendgrim> Next you're telling me there's plans to rewrite the WML parser. 20180722 10:00:15<+discordbot> It kind of got reworked during 1.13.x but save for the lobby and add-ons manager it's more of an "under the hood" thing, transparent to most but the most attentive players. 20180722 10:00:41<+discordbot> 1.15.x is going to see more drastic engine and in-game UI layout changes. 20180722 10:00:58<+discordbot> Hopefully. 20180722 10:01:17< Crendgrim> I remember trying to theme the ingame UI with WML and how messy that was. Undocumented and inconsistent WML tags everywhere. 20180722 10:01:24< Crendgrim> Is that part of what's getting reworked? 20180722 10:01:49<+discordbot> Yes. 20180722 10:01:59< Crendgrim> nice. 20180722 10:02:32<+discordbot> 1.12 Was my favourite UI. Can you still crash wesnoth by clicking too fast in add-on manager? Or crash it by downloading add-on that you already have from looby? 20180722 10:03:25<+discordbot> You can make a loop in the addons manager by upgrading addons that are dependent on each other. 20180722 10:03:28<+discordbot> The add-on manager has been completely replaced. It's unlikely that any of the old bugs would haver survived. 20180722 10:03:46<+discordbot> Let's say A is dependent on B and B is dependent on A. 20180722 10:04:05<+discordbot> Both got a new version online. 20180722 10:04:27<+discordbot> It was 1.14 bugs or we are talking about 1.15 20180722 10:04:29<+discordbot> ? 20180722 10:04:47<+discordbot> I'm at 1.14., because I certainly do not have 1.15. ._. 20180722 10:06:15< Ravana_> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/3273 known 20180722 10:06:28<+discordbot> You say 'update all' and try to update A first. 'Would you like to update B first?' Yes. Update B. Update A. Again 'Would you like to update B first?' xD Because the addon manager still thinks about the versions of the addon's before you started updating. 😄 20180722 10:06:41<+discordbot> Right. ^^ 20180722 10:06:48<+discordbot> Still fun though. 20180722 10:07:21<+discordbot> This can be seen for BMR too (I think?) 20180722 10:08:37<+discordbot> Wow that's great. 20180722 10:08:53<+discordbot> I had no idea it was a thing or that somehow was still unfixed. 20180722 10:13:22<+discordbot> Does someone read through old open github issues whenever you release a new stable cycle and closes the now obsolete issues? 20180722 10:13:42<+discordbot> I mean, are really 841 relevant issues open? ._. 20180722 10:13:51<+discordbot> People try but there's no dedicated triaging. 20180722 10:14:06<+discordbot> Old issues tend to be looked at if they become relevant somehow. 20180722 10:14:51<+discordbot> We close an issue immediately when the fix is committed, so there isn't any reason to go through old issues when we publich a new stable release. 20180722 10:15:16<+discordbot> What I mean is that way too often issues are inadvertently fixed. 20180722 10:15:27<+discordbot> (Or rendered moot in some other way.) 20180722 10:16:50<+discordbot> I try to look for relevant issues when fixing a bug I come upon on my own, but sometimes bad keywords or bad redaction on the original submitter's part get in the way. 20180722 10:18:25<+discordbot> the "Stun" ability of the Merman Brawler of Dead Water is really interesting, a pity that it is not used in Default 20180722 10:26:01<+discordbot> Wow this kraken looks like some kind of beholder. 20180722 10:29:49<+discordbot> Shadowm, would it be a good idea to play AtS on 1.12 and 1.14 parallel to better spot bugs/wrong behavior in 1.14? (I'm somewhat browsing github just now I noticed AncientGeneral's commit) 20180722 10:31:24<+discordbot> You mean issue not commit. 20180722 10:31:38<+discordbot> idk, I wouldn't ask anyone to do that kind of thing because I don't have that kind of time or energy myself. 20180722 10:32:27<+discordbot> Oops. I thought issue and wrote commit, because I was looking though the commits at that moment. xD 20180722 10:32:29<+discordbot> Also I'm really waiting on finalizing the AMLA tree for Elynia and Anya and two spoiler characters so I can actually playtest the whole thing in one go. 20180722 10:32:52<+discordbot> (Although it is tempting to just release it as-is first and use AMLAs as an excuse for people to replay it later.) 20180722 10:33:18<+discordbot> You know, personally I'd prefer that approach. 20180722 10:34:13<+discordbot> I likey playing campaigns I enjoy. But replaying those campaigns is not as easy, unless quite some time went by. Or, if they received and update that does justify replaying it. 😃 20180722 10:34:36<+discordbot> You've got my vote for it. ^^ 20180722 10:34:40<+discordbot> I'm just bummed because I've been promising the AMLA update for like two years now. 20180722 10:35:34<+discordbot> First I had a break from Wesnoth while at the same time dragging my feet trying to complete IftU 2.0. 20180722 10:36:18<+discordbot> Will it contain default and eras too? Or only campanings? 20180722 10:36:21<+discordbot> Then I did the AMLA update for IftU 2.0.1 and it didn't go as I expected and even now I've just released a new version re-doing it. 20180722 10:36:41<+discordbot> What will? 20180722 10:36:50<+discordbot> ALMA update? 20180722 10:36:56<+discordbot> If you release it you can properly discuss the AMLA trees with us, like you did with for your last AMLA update. 20180722 10:37:02<+discordbot> Oh I'm talking about the AMLA updates for my campaigns. 20180722 10:37:49<+discordbot> I mean, you don't have to think up 100% by yourself. Give us, the players some outline and then we can give feedback. 😃 20180722 10:38:06<+discordbot> idk I might give certain key sequences in AtS a quick review and release 0.10.0 as the first 1.14 version and postpone the AMLA update for 0.11.0. 20180722 10:38:31-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e337874.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 10:38:32<+discordbot> I like to think that I'm part of the project by playing and giving feedback, so yeah, that would be awesome. 😄 20180722 10:39:18<+discordbot> I'm no good with programming, but I can still help by giving extensive feedback on everything I might notice. And it's awesome to be mentioned in the credits. XD 20180722 10:39:24<+discordbot> Acctualy i think you are by doing this. 20180722 10:39:40<+discordbot> Feedback is hugely important in game development. 20180722 10:39:53<+discordbot> Since this stuff is primarily made for others to play. 20180722 10:40:30<+discordbot> See? So if you don't give us something to play we can give feedback to, you might be excluding some people from working on your project. 😛 20180722 10:40:41<+discordbot> I like my logic. XD 20180722 10:41:20<+discordbot> Anyway hopefully I'll come up with a plan after we sort out Wesnoth 1.14.4 and post it on the thread. 20180722 10:41:51<+discordbot> Makes me happy to read that. ^^ 20180722 10:42:06< Crendgrim> Going through Art Contributions and seeing all the great new things is quite exciting. 20180722 10:42:38-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 10:43:08<+discordbot> Crendgrim: Do you already know 'To Lands Unknown'? 20180722 10:43:59<+discordbot> Did you know that in default era (around +/- 0,3%) 65% damage is comming from melee atacks and (around +/- 0,3%) 35% is comming from ranged attacks? 20180722 10:43:59< Crendgrim> That was the campaign with the large-scale terrain art, right? 20180722 10:44:08<+discordbot> Yea 20180722 10:45:23<+discordbot> Yep. ^^ 20180722 10:45:34<+discordbot> It has some nice art. 20180722 10:45:48<+discordbot> I would say beautiful. 20180722 10:46:47<+discordbot> Bad Moon Rising also had large terrain art 20180722 10:56:29-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180722 10:56:35-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 11:03:45-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20180722 11:07:41<+discordbot> Shadowm, this is somewhat late, but do you mind that I added you on Steam? xD 20180722 11:07:59<+discordbot> I wouldn't have accepted otherwise :p 20180722 11:08:04<+discordbot> Great. ^^ 20180722 11:08:30<+discordbot> I'm surprised though that you thanked that one on steam for his comment. ^^ 20180722 11:09:17<+discordbot> Is it allowed to talk/discuss the wesnoth financing in this chat? 20180722 11:09:57<+discordbot> I mean sure, it's not off-topic. 20180722 11:10:24<+discordbot> Okay, so what does stop wesnoth right now from setting up a Patreon? 20180722 11:11:21<+discordbot> Is maybe a donating link to Wesnoth, Inc. a better and/or more feasible idea? 20180722 11:13:21<+discordbot> Is that money from the iOS port being used entirely for art commisions? How does that stuff get decided? 20180722 11:14:08<+discordbot> Would it be bad, if someday a wesnoth fan has enough money to try to make it a 'real' job to work on wesnoth? 20180722 11:14:14-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 11:14:38<+discordbot> And if someone tried that, how might that even work? 20180722 11:16:48<+discordbot> A donation link has been ruled out several times before. Patreon is still a thing that's being internally discussed I believe. 20180722 11:17:32<+discordbot> Also, while Wesnoth does make enough money for running the server and commissioning art, I believe it's not possible at this time to properly hire people. 20180722 11:18:34<+discordbot> Why has the donation link being ruled out? (I'm just wondering) 20180722 11:18:59<+discordbot> Why is 1.12 AtS dependent on IftU? 20180722 11:19:04<+discordbot> Make unit skins for default and sell them to people 😄 20180722 11:19:25<+discordbot> Because AtS is not meant to be played without IftU. 20180722 11:19:28< Crendgrim> @Konrad2 in Dave's words https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=605705#p605705 20180722 11:19:34<+discordbot> yea, ATS is a direct sequel 20180722 11:19:52<+discordbot> you wont understand what goes on in ATS without playing IFTU 20180722 11:22:20<+discordbot> Crendgrim: Thanks. 20180722 11:23:50-!- Guest68104 [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180722 11:50:56<+discordbot> Does anyone know wtactics or arcmage? 20180722 11:53:52< Crendgrim> Huh, I was excited about WTactics when it was new-ish. Interesting to see that it's still alive. 20180722 11:54:24<+discordbot> Well. Not exactly. 20180722 11:54:57<+discordbot> I'm just browing the link you gave me and reading up the related links and someone mentioned WTactics. So I looked it up. 20180722 11:55:18<+discordbot> It seems to be dead or at least I don't realy understand how it works. 20180722 11:55:30<+discordbot> Which is why I was wondering if someone knows more. 20180722 11:56:55< Crendgrim> I mean, there's not much happening, but somewhat recent commits: https://github.com/wtactics/arcmage 20180722 11:57:22< Crendgrim> I didn't know about arcmage yet. WTactics started out as the idea of building a card game using Wesnoth's art 20180722 11:57:43< Crendgrim> I still have the prints of an early version of that.. 20180722 12:00:21<+discordbot> arcmage seemed to me to be the only one actually featuring Wesnoth art. 20180722 12:00:58< Crendgrim> Since the arcmage project is hosted under the WTactics name on Github, I'm assuming it's their development. 20180722 12:05:01<+discordbot> @shadowm AtS (1.12): Before the first scenario, the 2nd text block starts with " which is never closed. No idea if that's true for 1.14 as well. 20180722 12:05:27<+discordbot> Um. 20180722 12:05:38<+discordbot> The very first line should start with an opening “ quote. 20180722 12:05:57<+discordbot> The one after the warning screen counts as the first line. 20180722 12:06:02<+discordbot> Yeah, it does. But the quote isn't closed anywhere. 20180722 12:15:30<+discordbot> Galas’ journal in IftU starts the same way. 20180722 12:15:37<+discordbot> The quote is closed at the end of the campaign. 20180722 12:19:03<+discordbot> Ohhhhh. Well. That's confusing. xD 20180722 12:25:11<+discordbot> How does Wesnoth make its money if it's free? I don't see any microtransactions. Is it off of ads? 20180722 12:25:29<+discordbot> The iOS version isn't free. 20180722 12:25:47<+discordbot> Ohhh 20180722 12:26:12<+discordbot> Right 20180722 12:39:14-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 12:40:52-!- archfate [~Empty@udp252125uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 12:41:53-!- archfate [~Empty@udp252125uds.hawaiiantel.net] has left #wesnoth [] 20180722 12:42:58-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20180722 12:49:18-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@1.121.100.204] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 13:15:12-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180722 13:33:25<+discordbot> wesnoth board is a front for an international hacking organization!! i knew it from the get-go!! 20180722 13:34:27-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 13:37:59<+discordbot> Yeah Vrains are ours! 20180722 13:53:17-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180722 13:53:23-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 13:55:26-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@1.121.100.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20180722 13:59:30-!- celmin [~celticmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The minstrel departs, to spread the music to the masses!] 20180722 14:08:15<+discordbot> Oh i have a question. Do you think about developing another fraction after Dunefolk? 20180722 14:10:30<+discordbot> you mean for mainline? 20180722 14:12:31<+discordbot> I think yeah. Not directly in default but in game. 20180722 14:14:23<+discordbot> There's been a little bit of talk about how it would be neat to have an After The Fall era with things like the Quenoth elves as a faction, but it's not something anyone has actually started working on. 20180722 14:14:39<+discordbot> How about Ukians 20180722 14:14:44<+discordbot> Thonk 20180722 14:16:04<+discordbot> How mutch work do you as developers put into fraction in comparison to add-on fractions? Is it comparable at all? 20180722 14:20:11<+discordbot> Depends. Some add-ons have had quite a lot of work put in to them(ex: EoM), whereas some have had quite a bit less. The Dunefolk are also something of an unusual case. 20180722 14:21:26<+discordbot> Why is that an unusual case? Well i supose they are second human fraction in game. 20180722 14:22:18<+discordbot> Not really that so much. 20180722 14:23:39<+discordbot> Is it the flamenwerfers? 20180722 14:23:54<+discordbot> There's a whole history behind them regarding them originally being called the Khalifate, lack of portraits, lack of animations, generally considered to be not as balanced as the rest of the Default factions, etc. The people who originally pushed for them to be added are also no longer really around. 20180722 14:31:09<+discordbot> oh, so they got renamed after all? 20180722 14:32:43-!- Crendgrim [~crend@unaffiliated/crendgrim] has left #wesnoth ["-"] 20180722 14:33:06<+discordbot> yep 20180722 14:33:27<+discordbot> Ahh, so much drama about nothing :) 20180722 14:34:34<+discordbot> also renamed all the units 20180722 14:36:27<+discordbot> Well i started to ask becouse i want to see how balanced they are and this question came to my mind. They aslo are somewhat mishmash of diffrent cultures not only "Kalifate" so i guess rename was good idea. 20180722 14:37:17< Ravana_> I don't think core developers can support additional faction 20180722 14:37:32< Ravana_> with each additional faction balancing new addition becomes more difficult 20180722 14:38:53<+discordbot> That's true. If i will have time i will try to more or less figure out Dunefolk balancing tho they still lose to mass trolls from what i know. 20180722 14:39:40-!- ibispi [~quassel@46.17.149.69] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 14:42:16<+discordbot> yeah, there has been some discussion about their balancing, though not much has changed so far, IIRC 20180722 14:44:21<+discordbot> FRACTIONS 20180722 14:46:27<+discordbot> .. just stop 😃 everyone can make mistakes from time to time 20180722 14:46:42<+discordbot> 😃 20180722 14:46:57<+discordbot> that and one about campaigns is a very common one 20180722 15:00:48<+discordbot> Maybe just R i overused and dont respond properly ;P 20180722 15:30:24<+discordbot> What is fake shroud? 20180722 15:47:27-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e337874.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180722 16:19:21-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180722 16:19:27-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 16:49:27-!- sigurdfd [sigurdfd@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 16:57:35-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180722 16:57:41-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 17:17:05-!- sigurdfd [sigurdfd@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has quit [] 20180722 17:43:08<+discordbot> 1001 Nights is great fantasy inspiration 20180722 17:43:18<+discordbot> not enough contemporary media uses it 20180722 17:44:16<+discordbot> shame to hear about that situation, however 20180722 17:54:28-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 17:56:14-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/] 20180722 18:21:51<+discordbot> On a different topic: is Sceptre of Fire as good as people say it is? Also, how hard is it (I know it says Expert so I am slightly intimidated). 20180722 18:21:57<+discordbot> Thanks in advance! 20180722 18:24:07<+discordbot> @Lord Banterhead I would say it is a fairly difficult campaign, and it can be challenging for good players, especially on harder difficulties, but it is not the hardest. 20180722 18:24:23<+discordbot> Thank you. 20180722 18:25:36<+discordbot> No problem. 20180722 18:26:43-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e337874.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 18:27:26<+discordbot> If you're looking for the hardest one, I would say NR is the hardest [Northern Rebirth]. Many of the scenarios can turn into a bloodbath, along with large maps and long battles, I would say it is a difficult campaign to finish. 20180722 18:27:37<+discordbot> But it is accomplishable. 20180722 18:30:23<+discordbot> If you need any help or have questions on Wesnoth, I would be glad to help, but I'm not the most qualified. I'm not even staff, just a big fan of the game who studies the lore and such. 20180722 18:38:18-!- DeFender1031 [~DeFender1@89-138-231-156.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 18:44:57<+discordbot> NR has the risk of turning the work of more than an hour into nothing, as it deals with huge armies which will take most of the avaible turns to be defeated. You might be just a few turns before the turn limit and realize that you can't win in time. Or you play until the very last turn but you still fall short of the goal. 20180722 18:44:57<+discordbot> yeah, Northern Rebirth is tough 20180722 18:45:10<+discordbot> i couldnt even get past the first mission 20180722 18:45:27<+discordbot> heck, even UTBS is easier even though when i played the game years ago i couldnt get past the 2nd scenario 20180722 18:45:35<+discordbot> i mean i do suck at Wesnoth but yeah 20180722 18:46:20<+discordbot> And then you have to track back a lot of turns until you somehow notice a point where you can play better which might help you achieve the goal in time. 20180722 18:46:41<+discordbot> @VYNLT Do you want get better? I've still got replays for both scenarios. xD 20180722 18:47:30<+discordbot> i got past UTBS 20180722 18:47:35<+discordbot> i got bette 20180722 18:47:37<+discordbot> *better 20180722 18:47:40<+discordbot> NR though, nope 20180722 18:48:17<+discordbot> One of the reasons why I like NR though is because it is so hard. Players don't get as much better by playing easy or average campaigns over and over as they do when they play an extremely challenging one and win. 20180722 18:48:40<+discordbot> So, that's a no? 20180722 18:51:02-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 19:45:32<+discordbot> Celmin: Are you there? 20180722 19:47:42<+discordbot> Celmin? 20180722 19:48:12<+discordbot> Celtic Ministrel on IRC. 20180722 19:48:19<+discordbot> Oh 20180722 19:56:46-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...] 20180722 19:57:22-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@p579FB6E5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 19:57:22-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@p579FB6E5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 20180722 19:57:23-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 20:01:57<+discordbot> NR is not tought as long as you do not get bored 20180722 20:02:35<+discordbot> ^ 20180722 20:04:50<+discordbot> Depends on the difficulty you are playing on. xD 20180722 20:05:49<+discordbot> I will admit I do get bored during some campaigns but even if that happens, I play it to the end. 20180722 20:06:06<+discordbot> Coz you never know, what if the next scenario is actually super interesting? 20180722 20:06:21-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20180722 20:07:58<+discordbot> Unless you cheat with :debug or files or something 20180722 20:18:54< celticminstrel> Hi @Konrad2 20180722 20:18:59< celticminstrel> What do you want? 20180722 20:22:08-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 20:24:21-!- celmin [~celticmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 20:24:24<+discordbot> I was just wondering why you are so tempted to close my issue (random see -> default) as a 'wontfix'. 😦 20180722 20:25:29-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 20:25:32< celticminstrel> Because your justification is to prevent "savescumming". 20180722 20:25:33< celticminstrel> 20180722 20:26:09< celmin> I don't think that's a worthwhile reasoning. 20180722 20:28:55<+discordbot> Actually, that's not what I mean. At least not exactly. 20180722 20:29:46<+discordbot> I like 'Save random seed' and I'm always chosing it. 20180722 20:30:10<+discordbot> And I'd prefer not having to actively chose it multiple times (whenever I start a new campaign). 20180722 20:30:11< celmin> ^choosing 20180722 20:30:17< celmin> ^choos 20180722 20:30:19<+discordbot> Thanks. 😄 20180722 20:30:20< celmin> ^+e 20180722 20:30:37< celmin> I don't agree with making it the default. 20180722 20:30:58< celmin> And IIRC the intent of the option when added was for deterministic testing, not for preventing savescumming. 20180722 20:31:38< celmin> I could be on board with having an advanced (or even hidden) pref to make it be selected by default. 20180722 20:31:45< celmin> Though I have a feeling Vultraz would not like that. 20180722 20:32:02<+discordbot> The Savescumming part is just why I like to take that option. 20180722 20:32:21<+discordbot> I'm prone to reload and this option helps me to avoid doing so. 20180722 20:32:28< celmin> Having it on by default could be frustrating for some people. 20180722 20:32:42<+discordbot> Which is why I thought of the option. 20180722 20:32:47< celmin> If they reload a lot and just think nothing of it, unlike you. 20180722 20:33:04< celmin> Then changing the default would make their methods suddenly stop working. 20180722 20:33:49<+discordbot> Which is why I thought of the option (you can tick somewhere once, instead of ticking it every time). 20180722 20:38:09< celmin> I just thought of a better way to do this. 20180722 20:38:20< celmin> Make the game remember the checkbox's last state. 20180722 20:38:39< celmin> This is precedented literally everywhere in the MP Create screen, after all, so... 20180722 20:39:12< celmin> It's still stored to the preferences file, but won't show up in the preferences dialog. 20180722 20:39:38< celmin> So basically, you just need to check it once, then it'll be checked until you decide to uncheck it later. 20180722 20:40:16< celmin> I think I could approve of this method. I'm not sure about @Vultraz but maybe he'd be fine with it too. 20180722 20:40:38<+discordbot> sounds acceptable 20180722 20:40:41<+discordbot> That sounds good to me too. 😄 20180722 20:52:53<+discordbot> Thx for 1.14.4 btw. 20180722 20:53:11<+discordbot> Do you know Weird Al? 20180722 21:18:43<+discordbot> :run: 20180722 21:20:39<+discordbot> Why people say NR is hard? First scenario for sure isnt that hard, the hardest part about it is turn limit. (I play on nightmare.) 20180722 21:21:38<+discordbot> I found scenario 4 extremely tedious 20180722 21:22:00<+discordbot> it's hard in the sense I had to force myself to continue playing 20180722 21:22:03<+discordbot> for me anyway 😛 20180722 21:22:06<+discordbot> NR is difficult for non-expert players. 20180722 21:22:25<+discordbot> NR is difficult because each turn takes 10 years 20180722 21:22:28<+discordbot> 😂 20180722 21:22:45<+discordbot> First one is very hard for non-experts due to you fighting level 1-3 enemies with pitchforks 20180722 21:22:56< celmin> XD 20180722 21:22:59< celmin> 10 years huh 20180722 21:23:05<+discordbot> Me and a few friends are making a map using the wesnoth map editor, and were wondering what the best way to collaborate. right now we're just using screenshare, is there a way to both work on it at the same time, or make structures and then add them to the map on the other persons side? 20180722 21:23:10<+discordbot> After i gained like 90% of vills i just spamed units and tried to lvl up some of them. :S So it was fast for me xD 20180722 21:23:32<+discordbot> No I don't think there are any tools that can do that Heecher 20180722 21:23:49<+discordbot> if I understand you correctly anyway 20180722 21:24:01< celmin> git 20180722 21:24:02<+discordbot> @Not Hamel NR is difficult for bored players* 20180722 21:24:24< celmin> …but that's not for literally working on them simultaneously like with screenshare, I guess. 20180722 21:24:53<+discordbot> we're just making a map and were wondering if there was any way to both make something and combine it 20180722 21:24:53<+discordbot> Even if I get bored, I continue but others may not. 20180722 21:24:53<+discordbot> either both working on the same map or working on things and combining it 20180722 21:24:53<+discordbot> you do coordinates 1-15 and he does the other 15 😛 20180722 21:24:53<+discordbot> then use the select tool to copy paste 20180722 21:25:33< celmin> @Heecher Version control software in general covers the latter case to a degree, though whether it's sufficiently easy to use, I dunno. 20180722 21:25:40<+discordbot> mk 20180722 21:25:43< celmin> I'm used to it by now so it's hard to say what it would be like for a beginner. 20180722 21:26:18< celmin> Ideally distributed VCS (like git, hg, etc) rather than centralized VCS (like p4, svn, etc) 20180722 21:26:41<+discordbot> probably just gonna stick to screenshare, this seems a bit complicated 20180722 21:26:50<+discordbot> but thanks for the help anyways :) 20180722 21:26:55< celmin> For maps, screenshare's probably better anyway. 20180722 21:27:26< celmin> If you were coding scenarios in WML, then VCS might be more useful as it means you can both work on things separately and then merge your work. 20180722 21:27:27<+discordbot> The last scenario of NR actually took 30-45 minutes per turn back when I played it. 20180722 21:27:40< celmin> … o.o 20180722 21:27:44< celmin> PER TURN!!? 20180722 21:27:52<+discordbot> Back then the AI was notoriously CPU-hungry. 20180722 21:28:06< celmin> So most of that was waiting for the AI? 20180722 21:28:07<+discordbot> So even with animations disabled it took forever to make every individual move. 20180722 21:28:09<+discordbot> Yes. 20180722 21:28:14< celmin> I see... 20180722 21:28:27<+discordbot> We're talking of a scenario where hundreds of units are on the map at the same time. 20180722 21:28:32<+discordbot> yah I just quit 20180722 21:28:33-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@1.121.100.204] has joined #wesnoth 20180722 21:28:51-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180722 21:29:14<+discordbot> So the AI naturally had an aneurysm trying to evaluate possible moves under those circumstances. 20180722 21:29:30< mattsc> NR is the only mainline campaign I never finished. Because I found it … uninteresting in the end (last 3 scenarios) 20180722 21:29:35<+discordbot> The machine was a second-gen 1.3 MHz Celeron with 256 MB of RAM. 20180722 21:30:38<+discordbot> I think it wouldn't be until 4 years later that the AI would become more performant in those situations. 20180722 21:30:49<+discordbot> Or 5 years later. 20180722 21:31:11< mattsc> Was this when Crab re-did it? 20180722 21:32:01< mattsc> … which was “before my time”, so I wouldn’t know. 20180722 21:33:01<+discordbot> Yes. 20180722 21:33:42<+discordbot> I remember my wesnoth would just freeze on the ai turn 20180722 21:33:56<+discordbot> had to just use debug to reduce their gold 20180722 21:33:58-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20180722 21:34:05<+discordbot> Cheater. xD 20180722 21:34:14<+discordbot> I never tried finishing it since then. 20180722 21:34:22<+discordbot> can't play if the game won't run :))) 20180722 21:34:35<+discordbot> For all I know perhaps on my expensive desktop it'll "only" take 20 minutes per turn. 20180722 21:34:59<+discordbot> that's like the time it takes me to play one of my own scenarios lol 20180722 21:35:10<+discordbot> Epic-scale battles aren't my cup of tea and I firmly believe that they're not for Wesnoth's engine either. 20180722 21:35:17<+discordbot> Right now it needs for me 2-5 minutes per turn in the last scenario. 20180722 21:35:41<+discordbot> @Yumi Especially the last ones? XD 20180722 21:35:46<+discordbot> I mean crap we once had someone find a bug in the A* pathfinder that would only trigger on a 200x200 map. 20180722 21:35:47-!- ibispi [~quassel@46.17.149.69] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180722 21:35:52<+discordbot> hmm? 20180722 21:36:20<+discordbot> Do you seriously only need 20 min to play the last scenario in Genesis? 20180722 21:36:23< celmin> What kind of bug was that? 20180722 21:36:27<+discordbot> yeah 20180722 21:36:34<+discordbot> it took me 15 turns 20180722 21:36:40<+discordbot> EoZ took 12 lol 20180722 21:36:57<+discordbot> celmin: Something involving castles IIRC. 20180722 21:37:06<+discordbot> The castle was about as large as the map. 20180722 21:37:09<+discordbot> Fortunatley i7 is enought for wesnoth ai but SSD is mutch more important for me. I regret nothing. 20180722 21:37:14<+discordbot> I still don't get how you leveled up your units that much. 20180722 21:37:26<+discordbot> well hard mode is hard for a reason 20180722 21:37:32<+discordbot> I was like overall 6-8 advancements behind you. 20180722 21:37:39<+discordbot> Playing on hard. 20180722 21:37:42<+discordbot> 😱 20180722 21:37:52<+discordbot> Well it took me 13 turns 20180722 21:37:53< celmin> Well that's quite some castle. o.o 20180722 21:37:57<+discordbot> I made it easier overall 20180722 21:38:15<+discordbot> Still doesn't explain the difference in XP. 20180722 21:38:22<+discordbot> ah 20180722 21:38:26<+discordbot> time for takeoff 20180722 21:38:30<+discordbot> Losing low xp units? 20180722 21:38:32<+discordbot> bye people haha 20180722 21:38:37<+discordbot> Lol what. xD 20180722 21:38:46<+discordbot> Like one kill units 20180722 21:38:57<+discordbot> I meant Yumi with my reaction. 😄 20180722 21:39:40<+discordbot> I ended 1 NR scenario with 2 lvl 2 lol i didnt expect to be that lucky i was counting on 1 lvl 2 at the end 20180722 21:40:17<+discordbot> I played Genesis (before she made it easier) on hard. My main units were 2 lvl 4 and one lvl 5. 20180722 21:40:50<+discordbot> None with the final advancement and even Yumi, the lvl 5 one still two advancements away from the final one. 😦 20180722 21:41:03<+discordbot> Maybe me fail the last scenario badly... 20180722 21:42:03< celmin> @Konrad2 - Sounds like Yumi's on a plane I guess? 20180722 21:42:45<+discordbot> In NR second scenario is that with like 4 Ud kings? xd 20180722 21:42:56<+discordbot> Huh. Didn't think to read it that way. But you are probably right. 20180722 21:43:04<+discordbot> On 20180722 21:43:13<+discordbot> *Only 3 undead kings. 20180722 21:43:23<+discordbot> Okay 20180722 21:43:37<+discordbot> That well not its easy 😄 20180722 21:43:46<+discordbot> XD 20180722 21:43:47<+discordbot> There are also 3 trolls. 20180722 21:43:52<+discordbot> What i just wrote xD 20180722 21:45:50<+discordbot> Well that will make it easy, only 3 ud kings and some trolls while i have THUGS! 20180722 21:47:05<+discordbot> Ha. Haha. Hahahahaha. 20180722 21:47:26<+discordbot> Gonna be fun to see your reaction in 10-20 turns. 20180722 21:47:52<+discordbot> Hurry up, I can't wait. 20180722 21:47:53<+discordbot> xD 20180722 21:48:22<+discordbot> We will see im not top player but i can do something unexpected 😉 20180722 21:48:42<+discordbot> It would be certainly unexpected if you lost at turn 10. ._. 20180722 21:49:20<+discordbot> How much gold do you have? 20180722 21:52:10<+discordbot> 415 20180722 21:54:28<+discordbot> why is AI's gold per village so low in campaigns? 20180722 21:55:03<+discordbot> Becous ppl like me will steamu roll every campaning by just getting every will and waiting. 20180722 21:55:21<+discordbot> there is the time limit for that 20180722 21:56:16<+discordbot> right now, capturing a village to relieve AI of its income is almost always completely pointless 20180722 21:56:23<+discordbot> I have my 415 g becous i got every will and saw that my units will no longer get there in time so i stopped recruting for like 5 turns with 160 g yet in bank xD 20180722 21:57:01<+discordbot> Hello myster troll bayby 20180722 21:57:50<+discordbot> Myster? 20180722 21:57:58< celmin> Mystery presumably 20180722 21:58:27<+discordbot> Heh i didnt think it just sounded funny to me 20180722 22:00:12<+discordbot> Does pushing in every direction is good idea? Well what could go wrong.XD 20180722 22:00:38<+discordbot> @blarumyrran Would you seriously prefer it if the Ai would get more gold per village? 20180722 22:00:50<+discordbot> Pushing into the skeletons is bad. 20180722 22:00:55<+discordbot> Well, I would highly suggest not pushing every direction, as that could lead to disaster on fronts. 20180722 22:01:03<+discordbot> Too many skeletons, not enough villages. 20180722 22:01:50<+discordbot> First white skellys and like 20 trolls on my screen now xD 20180722 22:01:51<+discordbot> If I have many troops, yet I split them into many different fronts, that means less troops per front. And if each front is supposed to hold a strong enemy, that means I have a statistically less chance of success. 20180722 22:02:08<+discordbot> The more you spread out your troops, the less likely you are to win on each front. 20180722 22:02:11<+discordbot> @Konrad2 i'm not speaking of any specific campaign but yes? 20180722 22:02:30<+discordbot> That means the enemy is stronger. 20180722 22:02:38<+discordbot> And can recruit more. 20180722 22:02:43<+discordbot> That's bad for you. 20180722 22:02:47<+discordbot> to compensate you can reduce starting gold and intrinsic income 20180722 22:02:50<+discordbot> if you want 20180722 22:02:51<+discordbot> Blu Troll leader is stupid.... 20180722 22:03:13<+discordbot> Why not green? 20180722 22:03:15<+discordbot> And turn 5 dead xD 20180722 22:03:18<+discordbot> Trolls are stupid 20180722 22:03:23<+discordbot> Becouse green is still alive 20180722 22:03:27<+discordbot> ...the heck. 20180722 22:03:33<+discordbot> How far did you push? 20180722 22:03:41<+discordbot> Probably lured him off 20180722 22:03:53<+discordbot> Isn't blue the top-right trollboi? 20180722 22:03:56<+discordbot> And how are you even able to kill him without horrendous losses? 20180722 22:04:03<+discordbot> top left 20180722 22:04:07<+discordbot> my money's on save-loading 20180722 22:04:29<+discordbot> castle line 20180722 22:04:34<+discordbot> Save-loading is cheating. 😦 20180722 22:04:37<+discordbot> this two hexes 20180722 22:04:44<+discordbot> I just saw this picture and it gave me some pretty cool ideas!!! Hehe :) 20180722 22:04:45<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/470712824914771978/king_in_yellow.jpg 20180722 22:04:49<+discordbot> 😘 this is soo cooll :o 20180722 22:04:50<+discordbot> no need when he is standing like that 20180722 22:05:04<+discordbot> What kind of units do you have? 20180722 22:06:05<+discordbot> I just can't imagine you holding that kind of front against that many troll whelps. 20180722 22:06:09<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/470713183804588072/12.jpg 20180722 22:06:45<+discordbot> sczczenie is whelp? Polish words are so aesthetic!! xPP 20180722 22:06:47<+discordbot> Okay, fine, you kill him there easy. 20180722 22:06:48<+discordbot> Hello there xD 20180722 22:06:57<+discordbot> <3 20180722 22:07:02<+discordbot> You still have to run and take losses. :c 20180722 22:07:33<+discordbot> At least no more troll reniforcements from this side 20180722 22:07:51<+discordbot> Yeah, but those losses hurt. 20180722 22:08:14<+discordbot> I see like 39g of losses just in enemy turn 20180722 22:08:51<+discordbot> That's 3 less units your can rotate. 20180722 22:09:04<+discordbot> Well all 5 dead xD 20180722 22:09:23<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/470713995435966474/13.jpg 20180722 22:09:24<+discordbot> Rotating is important if you don't have enough villages to heal your units fast enough to send them to battle. 😦 20180722 22:09:51<+discordbot> I think you will be overrun. 😃 20180722 22:10:01<+discordbot> Well i play more for fun its not some tournament xd 20180722 22:10:19<+discordbot> Foot dodge comp incoming! 20180722 22:10:20<+discordbot> Hejnewar, I would suggest going the other direction of where you were going. This isn't a clear-the-field scenario, it's a run one. 20180722 22:10:22<+discordbot> But it's not fun if you don't win the scenario. xD 20180722 22:10:37<+discordbot> Well but kill LK was fun 😄 20180722 22:10:40<+discordbot> That's not true, it's a clear-the-field too. >.< 20180722 22:11:12<+discordbot> And going for the skeletons while the brown trolls are still going strong is a bad idea. 20180722 22:11:23<+discordbot> I mean the objective isn't 'defeat all enemy leaders' 20180722 22:11:30<+discordbot> Even worse when the black skeletons wiped the floor with the trolls. 20180722 22:11:49<+discordbot> It's an alternative objective though... 20180722 22:12:21<+discordbot> It is, but it isn't the main one. 20180722 22:12:59<+discordbot> Dwarfs can find themselves they will want to kill me anyway probably. 20180722 22:13:24<+discordbot> Well, it's certainly not necessary to push hard if you just want to complete the main objective. 20180722 22:13:33<+discordbot> Yay foots saved the day xD 20180722 22:14:15<+discordbot> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/3090 I recommend my replays for that scenario. xD 20180722 22:16:26<+discordbot> Foots are dodging everything 😃 20180722 22:16:35<+discordbot> Thats my spirit 20180722 22:19:41<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/470716585917546509/14.jpg 20180722 22:19:42<+discordbot> Perfect 20180722 22:20:28<+discordbot> I'd advise you to step a hex back vs the blue trolls. 20180722 22:20:46<+discordbot> No 60% > 50% 20180722 22:20:57<+discordbot> That way only 2 trolls can attack at once and their defence is worse. 20180722 22:21:13<+discordbot> I dont want to kill them there 20180722 22:21:13<+discordbot> 30% < 40% 20180722 22:21:44<+discordbot> I just want then to not kill my foots and i think 60% is better for that tha 50% and 2 atacker 20180722 22:22:36<+discordbot> Let me calculate some stuff. 20180722 22:23:51<+discordbot> Ok. Thats just my intuition 20180722 22:24:02< celmin> Foots huh. 20180722 22:24:16< celmin> That makes it sound like you're walking all over the place. 20180722 22:24:33< mattsc> Foots are the things at the end of your legs. 20180722 22:24:35< celmin> I mean, the fact that it's foots and not feet probably proves otherwise, but. 20180722 22:24:43< celmin> Oh hi mattsc 20180722 22:24:58<+discordbot> Legs then 😛 20180722 22:24:58< mattsc> Hey; haven’t had time to look at that issue yet. 20180722 22:25:06< celmin> No problem 20180722 22:25:18< celmin> It was a PR not an issue though. 20180722 22:25:31< mattsc> Leaving on vacation on Tuesday with a full day of work tomorrow, so things are a bit busy. 20180722 22:25:34< celmin> I see. 20180722 22:25:36< mattsc> Okay, either way. 20180722 22:25:52< mattsc> I’ll try to get to it before the end of the day. 20180722 22:26:46<+discordbot> @Hejnewar Ready for being hit with calculations? 20180722 22:27:03<+discordbot> Well i was hit with leg lvl up so 😄 20180722 22:27:16<+discordbot> That's a yes? 20180722 22:27:20<+discordbot> Great. 20180722 22:27:22<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/470718520221761537/15.jpg 20180722 22:28:14<+discordbot> I'd suggest retreating your south-western flank if you don't want those bois to die. 20180722 22:28:17<+discordbot> Chances for getting hit 4 times in one turn in my advised position: 0,0625% 20180722 22:28:41 * celmin wonders what that is in fractions... 20180722 22:29:06<+discordbot> Chances for getting hit 4 times in one turn in your position: 0,1382% 20180722 22:29:13< celmin> 1/16 apparently 20180722 22:29:14<+discordbot> 1/16 20180722 22:29:24<+discordbot> 0,5^4 20180722 22:29:28< celmin> Kinda thought it looked like a familiar number. >_> 20180722 22:29:29<+discordbot> That was the easy one. 20180722 22:29:30<+discordbot> Well i belive in power of luck 😄 20180722 22:29:54<+discordbot> i am firmly against numbers and especially fractions 20180722 22:29:56< mattsc> 0.0625% is not 1/16 20180722 22:30:01< celmin> So that's actually a probability of 0.000625? 20180722 22:30:08<+discordbot> I guess I messed up 20180722 22:30:11< celmin> mattsc: Hey it's 1/16 of a percent 20180722 22:30:20< mattsc> right 20180722 22:30:25<+discordbot> I totally messed up. XD 20180722 22:30:30< celmin> ??? 20180722 22:30:45< celmin> But if you got it from 0.5^4... 20180722 22:30:52<+discordbot> Yeah. 20180722 22:30:54< celmin> Was that 0.5 also a percentage? 20180722 22:30:59<+discordbot> No. 20180722 22:31:06<+discordbot> 50% of 1. 20180722 22:31:07<+discordbot> xD 20180722 22:31:11< celmin> So really it's 0.0625, not 0.0625%? 20180722 22:31:13< mattsc> Well, just leave out the % and you’re good then ;) 20180722 22:31:19< celmin> So IOW it's 6.25% 20180722 22:31:32<+discordbot> Nah, I just changed the decimal point. 😄 20180722 22:31:37< celmin> ??? 20180722 22:31:37<+discordbot> 🤔 20180722 22:31:39<+discordbot> I forgot converting the numbers. 20180722 22:31:55< celmin> So is the 0.1382 correct too then? 20180722 22:32:02< celmin> Meanign 13.82%? 20180722 22:32:08<+discordbot> Yep. 20180722 22:32:30<+discordbot> Actually it 13.824% 20180722 22:33:12<+discordbot> Meh my luck ran out and i lost both in one turn 😦 20180722 22:33:33<+discordbot> That was actually somewhat unlucky. 20180722 22:33:35<+discordbot> In my opinion, I believe in strategy over luck. 20180722 22:33:44< celmin> They can coexist. 20180722 22:33:45<+discordbot> But luck is important 20180722 22:34:04<+discordbot> To be fair, he was doing tactics there, while I wanted him to choose stratedy. 20180722 22:34:08<+discordbot> I like to play instinctevley with luck 😄 20180722 22:34:11<+discordbot> *strategy 20180722 22:34:20< celmin> A strategy that's brought down by a few instances of bad luck is not a good strategy. 20180722 22:34:22<+discordbot> But well campanning is not ladder 😃 20180722 22:34:33< celmin> A good strategy needs to be able to account for the unexpected to some degree. 20180722 22:34:57<+discordbot> Yes, expect the unexpected. 20180722 22:34:57<+discordbot> I'm playing instinctively as well. ^^ 20180722 22:35:25<+discordbot> Not Hamel, do you mind looking at my replays? Maybe you can give me advice or smth. 20180722 22:35:40< celmin> Hamel is soooo close to camel though... 20180722 22:36:01<+discordbot> I can't atm, sorry. My phone's cracked a bunch and this computer is crappy. 20180722 22:36:07<+discordbot> :C 20180722 22:36:25<+discordbot> celmin then? xD 20180722 22:36:27<+discordbot> I'm going to try to get a comp soon tho, besides this one 20180722 22:36:32<+discordbot> What does IIRC mean btw? 20180722 22:36:38< celmin> I don't even have 1.14 installed on this machine. 20180722 22:36:52< celmin> And for that matter can't install it. 20180722 22:36:58<+discordbot> internet relay chat or something 20180722 22:37:06< celmin> No no no 20180722 22:37:10< celmin> IIRC is "if I recall correctly 20180722 22:37:11<+discordbot> Don't remember what IRC is exactly though 20180722 22:37:14<+discordbot> oh 20180722 22:37:15<+discordbot> my bad 20180722 22:37:19< celmin> IRC is Internet Relay Chat 20180722 22:37:22<+discordbot> I thought they meant IRC 20180722 22:37:23<+discordbot> okay 20180722 22:37:25<+discordbot> my bad 20180722 22:37:25< celmin> The difference between one I and two. 20180722 22:37:45< celmin> But yeah 1.14 won't even run on here, so. 20180722 22:37:49<+discordbot> What I was saying on strat/luck: No matter how hard you plan, some part of your plan will not go as planned. Same with luck. The harder you rely on luck, the more likely you are to have bad luck. 20180722 22:37:56< celmin> Definitely can't look at anyone's replays even if I wanted to. 20180722 22:38:04<+discordbot> Just got rid of blu trolls and green broke out 20180722 22:38:06<+discordbot> I pity you. 20180722 22:38:13<+discordbot> Both of you. xD 20180722 22:38:18<+discordbot> Me or celmin? 20180722 22:38:20<+discordbot> wait 20180722 22:38:23<+discordbot> Not you. 20180722 22:38:23<+discordbot> am confuz 20180722 22:38:24< mattsc> “The harder you rely on luck, the more likely you are to have bad luck.” Umm, no. 20180722 22:38:25<+discordbot> okay 20180722 22:38:25<+discordbot> XD 20180722 22:38:28< celmin> Right Hamel, but if your plan is good, you can factor in luck and come out on top even with a bit of bad luck. 20180722 22:38:41< celmin> @Konrad2 - There's no problem, I can play Wesnoth on another computer. 20180722 22:39:00<+discordbot> Why are you using this one then? 20180722 22:39:08< celmin> Because it's portable. 20180722 22:39:17< celmin> Or because it's a Mac. 20180722 22:39:18<+discordbot> Matt, luck can be bad or good. If I rely purely on luck, I have a worse [better?] chance of getting bad luck. 20180722 22:39:27< celmin> The latter applies to both my computers that don't run Wesnoth. 20180722 22:39:38<+discordbot> If I rely on no luck at all, I will be way less likely to have bad luck. 20180722 22:39:44< mattsc> @Not Hamel, I was objecting to your wording. 20180722 22:39:54<+discordbot> I don't think that's how luck works though... 20180722 22:39:57< mattsc> The likelyhood of having bad luck is the same no matter how much you rely on it. 20180722 22:40:08< mattsc> The effect of having bad luck is different. 20180722 22:40:16<+discordbot> Yes, I meant the effect 20180722 22:40:26< celmin> This one is portable, the other has all (well most of) my data and programs. 20180722 22:40:27< mattsc> But that’s not what you said. ;) 20180722 22:40:34< celmin> The Windows one is mostly just games. 20180722 22:40:36< mattsc> Damned mathematicians! :P 20180722 22:40:53<+discordbot> My every lvl 1 is dead xD 20180722 22:41:03<+discordbot> @Hejnewar I really recommend watching my replays if you are getting overrun. 20180722 22:41:13<+discordbot> Matt, I do admit my wording was trash there, but it is not what I meant. And I do know my wording was off. 20180722 22:41:13<+discordbot> No. I will still win xD 20180722 22:41:32<+discordbot> doubt 20180722 22:41:33< mattsc> Hamel: I am just giving you a hard time. 20180722 22:41:33<+discordbot> And im not even playing seriously 😄 20180722 22:41:57<+discordbot> Error 404: Hamel not found 20180722 22:42:01< celmin> Haha 20180722 22:42:06< mattsc> And the mathematicians comment was aimed at me. Even though I am not one, strictly speaking. 20180722 22:42:19<+discordbot> By the way, celmin, is it ok if I ask why your name is changed from celticminstrel to celmin? xP :3 20180722 22:42:33<+discordbot> just curious, sorry to get nosy! 20180722 22:42:37< celmin> Sure. 20180722 22:42:51<+discordbot> matt, sorry if that came off as rude 20180722 22:42:59< celmin> Just wait a bit, in the middle of something. 20180722 22:43:05<+discordbot> ok ok :) 20180722 22:43:05<+discordbot> I've just not got much sleep b/c of me hating sleep 20180722 22:43:18< mattsc> Hey, no worries, it did not. I was just making sure you didn’t think I was attacking you. 20180722 22:43:29<+discordbot> Oh, okay 20180722 22:43:46<+discordbot> the art in these cutscenes in the story mode, who made this stuff? 20180722 22:43:51<+discordbot> it's absolutely incredible 20180722 22:43:59<+discordbot> all of the art in the game, really 20180722 22:44:07<+discordbot> Well, I think it's the dev team and some originals 20180722 22:44:17<+discordbot> Green trolls almost dead 😄 20180722 22:44:23<+discordbot> Anyone mind looking at a replay of mine and tell me what I could have done better? 20180722 22:44:33<+discordbot> @make eye different artists for each campaign 20180722 22:44:41<+discordbot> I made the ones for Descent into Darkness, for example 20180722 22:44:42<+discordbot> See, the way Wesnoth works, only 3ish campaigns were designed directly by the dev team. The rest were made by fans and canonized. [Correct me if I am wrong] 20180722 22:44:51<+discordbot> ooooooooh 20180722 22:44:53< mattsc> @Not Hamel: do you get pinged if I do that <— (on irc; I assume the space does not work) 20180722 22:45:23<+discordbot> mattsc: No, I do not. Use @Not Hamel#5995 to ping me. 20180722 22:45:27<+discordbot> for doing pings, on discord, you actually need to input... yeah, that 20180722 22:45:35<+discordbot> Each Discord user has four digits after their name 20180722 22:45:36<+discordbot> their user number and their name 20180722 22:45:40<+discordbot> Yeah 20180722 22:45:54<+discordbot> i've never seen a bot that can communicate to an irc server like that before 20180722 22:46:08<+discordbot> they can read what we say? 20180722 22:46:12< mattsc> I know how it works on Discord. I’m on irc. That’s why I’m asking. Cross-pings only work without “special characters”, AFAIK 20180722 22:46:13<+discordbot> I got pinged by celmin. 20180722 22:46:25<+discordbot> It's basically a relay bot. 20180722 22:47:06< mattsc> @Not Hamel#5995 My guess is that this does not work either. 20180722 22:47:11<+discordbot> It's like if someone on Platform A and Platform B wanted to connect without getting accounts on the other, and a bot or person relaying messages between the two. 20180722 22:47:15<+discordbot> It didn't work 20180722 22:47:15<+discordbot> hmm 20180722 22:47:17<+discordbot> it did not, yeah 20180722 22:47:31<+discordbot> Try this: <@379652131977953282> 20180722 22:47:48<+discordbot> it's because discord has like, an autocomplete thing that just does it for you, but it can't do it for the robot i think 20180722 22:48:05<+discordbot> @Not Hamel I could just do it from here, but I am usually to lazy to be online on both. 20180722 22:48:18<+discordbot> Plus, irc always pings me on my own messages then 😛 20180722 22:48:30<+discordbot> :o it's the man himself 20180722 22:48:34<+discordbot> whoa 20180722 22:48:39<+discordbot> discord pings work oddly - if a discord user is offline and he is pinged, it does not work either 20180722 22:49:11<+discordbot> as in, the special markup does not translate to the blue pingy thing 20180722 22:49:29<+discordbot> @Not Hamel My comment on luck was just because lots of people don't understand how probabilities work. So I didn't want anybody to get the wrong impression from your statement. 20180722 22:49:35<+discordbot> Oh okay 20180722 22:49:38<+discordbot> I assumed that you meant it the way you meant it 20180722 22:50:28<+discordbot> You hear things like "I've missed 4 in a row, therefore my chance of hitting the next one is much higher" all the time. But it isn't. 20180722 22:51:02<+discordbot> And the "damned mathematicians" was meant as: why did this guy (mattsc) have to take this so literally 😉 20180722 22:51:07<+discordbot> It's the same as if I missed 2 in a row. 20180722 22:51:32<+discordbot> Right; the chance of hitting the next one is the same, no matter what happened before. 20180722 22:51:55< celmin> I don't even remember pinging @Konrad2 >_> 20180722 22:51:56<+discordbot> Anyways, I'm really not trying to derail the conversation here, I meant it as a light-hearted comment. 20180722 22:51:58<+discordbot> Sorry for that. 20180722 22:52:06<+discordbot> there was a Karma mod once, that gave a player Karma points each time he missed iirc 20180722 22:52:15<+discordbot> Green trolls cleared! 20180722 22:52:17<+discordbot> and these would increase chances of hitting in the future 20180722 22:52:46<+discordbot> this game makes me strong 20180722 22:52:47<+discordbot> celmin: You did that 00:38, regarding your pcs. 20180722 22:52:54< mattsc> @379652131977953282 Trying this, as instructed. 20180722 22:53:10< celmin> Oh yeah. 20180722 22:53:40< mattsc> @Konrad2 That’s because you only have letters and numbers in your name 20180722 22:53:43<+discordbot> @Hejnewar Do you mind posting a replay afterwards? I don't get how any of the stuff you are doing works. 20180722 22:54:18<+discordbot> I just wanted to make 100% clear that it works for 'regular' names, in case of doubt. 20180722 22:54:26<+discordbot> I meant trying it with the doohickeys 20180722 22:54:27<+discordbot> If i end it today if not tommorow 20180722 22:54:33<+discordbot> <> these doohickeys 20180722 22:54:33<+discordbot> lmao 20180722 22:54:36<+discordbot> i still dont have raenna 20180722 22:54:43<+discordbot> Its 1-st at night after all 20180722 22:54:45<+discordbot> 😃 20180722 22:54:58<+discordbot> You still didn't visit the 2nd village on the map? 20180722 22:55:05<+discordbot> do this with the doohickeys<@379652131977953282> 20180722 22:55:12<+discordbot> just copy paste 20180722 22:55:26<+discordbot> Its hard to see :S 20180722 22:55:31< celmin> So @Crimoson_Conure, basically I use a different default name depending on the device I'm connecting to, so that there's no conflicts if I connect from multiple devices simultaneously (like now). For my main computer it's celticminstrel (though with celmin as fallback), for my laptop I use celmin, and iCelmin on my phone. 20180722 22:55:36<+discordbot> choosing "Cancel" rather than "Ok" in the faction/leader choice dialog, upon entering a multiplayer game, still joins the game 20180722 22:55:50< celmin> celmin is an abbreviation of my name that someone else thought up years ago and I just started using it. 20180722 22:55:55< celmin> @Crimson_Conure 20180722 22:56:02< celmin> Sorry, I misspelled your name in the attempted ping. 20180722 22:56:04<+discordbot> I'm on part III 20180722 22:56:18<+discordbot> What can I say. 20180722 22:56:22<+discordbot> You screwed up. 20180722 22:56:29< mattsc> <@379652131977953282> hust copy/pasting 20180722 22:56:33< mattsc> *just 20180722 22:56:37<+discordbot> okay 20180722 22:56:44<+discordbot> I'm not sure if you can complete part III without her. 20180722 22:56:51<+discordbot> It only works with the doohickeys, matt 20180722 22:56:55<+discordbot> celmin: ah okay I see :) 20180722 22:56:56<+discordbot> Actually I'm pretty sure you can't. 20180722 22:57:11< mattsc> … and if you know that 19-digit number 20180722 22:57:14<+discordbot> Eh 20180722 22:57:23<+discordbot> The parts where she's suppoused to talk have just been blank 20180722 22:57:26< mattsc> more or less 19 digits 20180722 22:57:26<+discordbot> so maybe I can 20180722 22:57:28<+discordbot> yolo 20180722 22:57:42<+discordbot> She turns into a leader unit at some point. 20180722 22:57:50<+discordbot> No leader unit = instead defeat. 20180722 22:57:56<+discordbot> Well, you can get anyone's 20180722 22:58:01< celmin> …why 19 digits, that's such an odd choice of number. 20180722 22:58:12<+discordbot> prime 20180722 22:58:28<+discordbot> Just turn on dev tools on discord, then right click on a profile and click copy id 20180722 22:58:33< celmin> Yeah I know it's prime, but prime isn't typically a desirably quality outside of cryptography. 20180722 22:58:36< mattsc> I’m sure it’s not 19. I estimated. 20180722 22:58:36<+discordbot> Use the doohickeys and the @ to ping 20180722 22:58:39< mattsc> Too lazy to count 20180722 22:58:47<+discordbot> 18 20180722 22:58:51<+discordbot> It's the 7th prime number 20180722 22:58:54<+discordbot> Aw man. 20180722 22:58:55< celmin> It's probably log(2^63) or something. 20180722 22:58:55<+discordbot> nah Konrad 20180722 22:59:01<+discordbot> She has been a leader unit forever 20180722 22:59:03< celmin> That's log base 10 not base 2. 20180722 22:59:04<+discordbot> but she can't die 20180722 22:59:08<+discordbot> cause she doesn't exist :DDD 20180722 22:59:31< celmin> This is a roundabout way of saying that I think it's probably just a random 64-bit signed integer. 20180722 22:59:34<+discordbot> So, you control primevalists yet? 20180722 22:59:36<+discordbot> OH like recruiting leader, you mean? 20180722 22:59:37<+discordbot> So just use the doohickeys and the @ to ping someone 20180722 22:59:57< celmin> Though it could be a random 64-bit unsigned integer, which would suggest log(2^64). 20180722 22:59:58< mattsc> whatever doohitchy-something means ... 20180722 23:00:02<+discordbot> [yes I know they're greaterthan/lessthan symbols, but doohickey is a better name] 20180722 23:00:13< celmin> "doohickey" just means "thing", right? 20180722 23:00:29<+discordbot> Yes 20180722 23:00:33<+discordbot> Exactly, recruiting leader. 20180722 23:00:37<+discordbot> A lot of people around here use it 20180722 23:00:41<+discordbot> So I use it 20180722 23:00:43<+discordbot> ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 20180722 23:00:45< celmin> BTW in context they should be called angle brackets rather than less/greater than symbols. 20180722 23:00:49<+discordbot> Gold crown, not silver crown. 20180722 23:00:53<+discordbot> Freak, im almost dead ;-; 20180722 23:00:53<+discordbot> dang 20180722 23:00:57<+discordbot> i dunno 20180722 23:00:58<+discordbot> we'll see 😄 20180722 23:01:07<+discordbot> @Hejnewar Told ya. 😄 20180722 23:01:26< mattsc> Anyways, folks, nice bantering, but I need to move on. TTYL. 20180722 23:01:39<+discordbot> Too little units left after trolls 😦 20180722 23:02:08<+discordbot> oof 20180722 23:02:12<+discordbot> So what I meant is you use the doohickeys and the @ around the number 20180722 23:02:13<+discordbot> whats the console command to win a scenario? 20180722 23:02:14<+discordbot> Like so: 20180722 23:02:16<+discordbot> I cant end this one cause no Raenna 20180722 23:02:17<+discordbot> '...those losses hurt.' 20180722 23:02:18<+discordbot> xD 20180722 23:02:23<+discordbot> <@379652131977953282> 20180722 23:02:37<+discordbot> copy pasting that pings me 20180722 23:02:48< celmin> Yeah, angle brackets 20180722 23:02:53<+discordbot> May be but i will try unitil i win eventualy i will start to think 😃 20180722 23:03:06< celmin> There are technically different Unicode codepoints for angle brackets, but no-one uses those, right? 20180722 23:03:10< mattsc> <@379652131977953282> Yeah; but that only works if I know that numbe for you, however many digits it has. 20180722 23:03:13< celmin> Except when actually doing proper typesetting or whatever. 20180722 23:03:20< celmin> For a document you'd use them when appropriate. 20180722 23:03:31< mattsc> … which I usually don’t while on irc, I think. 20180722 23:03:34<+discordbot> Yeah, you can get others via discord tools 20180722 23:03:51< mattsc> I can also just be on discord, if it’s important :) 20180722 23:04:05<+discordbot> @Hyperwolf72 You might want to report your issue to doofus-01 on the forums, maybe he can fix you up and add something in BMR2 to prevent people like you from running into that ussue. ^^ 20180722 23:04:15< mattsc> I just like to pretend that I will be the third last person in the Galactic Conscience who will abandon irc. 20180722 23:04:37< mattsc> *to abandon (whatever) 20180722 23:04:45<+discordbot> nah 20180722 23:04:50< celmin> Third last, huh. 20180722 23:04:53<+discordbot> https://xkcd.com/1782/ 20180722 23:05:04< celmin> That implies you can think of two others who will abandon it later. 20180722 23:05:09< mattsc> celmin: I know, you’ll do so after me 20180722 23:05:24< celmin> Figured I was one of them. 20180722 23:05:28<+discordbot> is there even a command for winning a scenario? 20180722 23:05:29<+discordbot> abandon it for what, though? there is no obvious replacement 20180722 23:05:39<+discordbot> discord is niche and proprietary 20180722 23:05:42< celmin> @Hyperwolf72 - You mean like a cheat command? 20180722 23:05:43< celmin> There is one. 20180722 23:05:44<+discordbot> and will die with whoever owns it 20180722 23:05:49<+discordbot> yeah 20180722 23:05:53< celmin> I think it's :n 20180722 23:05:54<+discordbot> Only for skipping. 20180722 23:05:56< mattsc> https://xkcd.com/1782/ 20180722 23:05:56<+discordbot> I cant finish my scenario cause I dont have an essential character 20180722 23:06:04< mattsc> oh, too late 20180722 23:06:06< celmin> Might be :next_level 20180722 23:06:09<+discordbot> XD 20180722 23:06:11< celmin> Maybe both work, 20180722 23:06:15< mattsc> sorry, missed that :P 20180722 23:06:23<+discordbot> But it's not really helpful. 20180722 23:06:33<+discordbot> He'll have to skip a lot of levels. 20180722 23:06:34< celmin> But to use it you do need to enable debug mode first with :debug (it can be disabled after with :nodebug). 20180722 23:06:37<+discordbot> The last one too? 20180722 23:06:43<+discordbot> eh 20180722 23:06:46< celmin> True, if the problem is a missing character, I'm not sure if skipping the level would help? 20180722 23:06:51< celmin> Is the character on the recall list? 20180722 23:06:52<+discordbot> Nope. 20180722 23:06:54<+discordbot> Nope. 20180722 23:06:58<+discordbot> I never got her. 20180722 23:07:02< celmin> Weird. 20180722 23:07:12<+discordbot> I'll just debug the rest of the campaign cause I wanna see the fragments of the story I can get. 20180722 23:07:12< celmin> Is this a mainline campaign? 20180722 23:07:16<+discordbot> nah 20180722 23:07:18< celmin> Ah okay. 20180722 23:07:19<+discordbot> its BM 20180722 23:07:23<+discordbot> *BMR 20180722 23:07:40<+discordbot> Ohh troll kiled white skele king xD 20180722 23:07:43< celmin> I was about to say "You expect me to know what that is?" but then you correct it and suddenly I somehow knew what that is. 20180722 23:07:46< celmin> ^corrected 20180722 23:07:57< celmin> IIRC that's Blood Moon Rising? 20180722 23:08:08<+discordbot> *Bad Moon Rising 20180722 23:08:11<+discordbot> How is that possible? 20180722 23:08:38<+discordbot> He didn't visit the the 2nd village in BMR2, which he was supposed to visit. Which he was promted at least two times to visit by his leader unit. 20180722 23:08:50<+discordbot> does :next_level really work reliably? i would think next scenarios will run into errors because some anticipated events did not happen 20180722 23:08:58< celmin> Well, I was close, huh. 20180722 23:09:18<+discordbot> :DDD 20180722 23:09:21<+discordbot> doofus-01 didn't add any failsafes for people who ignore those prompts. 20180722 23:09:36<+discordbot> Lorenzon isn't my real dad 20180722 23:09:37< celmin> @blarumyrran - Yes, that's often the case, though Tad_Carlucci tried very hard to make several of the mainline campaigns robust against that. 20180722 23:09:41<+discordbot> I won 20180722 23:09:45<+discordbot> 't do what he tells me 20180722 23:10:02<+discordbot> Okay. He told you to win. 20180722 23:10:05<+discordbot> So you lost. xD 20180722 23:10:08< celmin> XD 20180722 23:10:12<+discordbot> lmao ok maybe I do what he tells me 20180722 23:10:20<+discordbot> but like 20180722 23:10:23<+discordbot> It was suggested 20180722 23:10:28<+discordbot> he didn't DEMAND I go there 20180722 23:10:45<+discordbot> True. But you are supposed to explore. xD 20180722 23:11:16<+discordbot> And the lack of a demand is why I'm telling you to go to the forum and make doofus-01 add this very demand. 20180722 23:11:19< celmin> I think this should be reported as a bug to the BMR dev though. 20180722 23:11:24<+discordbot> Is that possible that trolls took over black skellys? 20180722 23:11:27< celmin> It should not be possible to entirely miss an essential character. 20180722 23:11:52< celmin> IMO it's up to the dev to ensure that there is no way for this to happen, even if that means adding alternate ways for the character to appear if the player ignores the cues. 20180722 23:11:54-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e337874.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180722 23:12:07< celmin> (I did that for Erendor in my campaign awhile back, for example.) 20180722 23:12:09<+discordbot> certainly 20180722 23:12:14<+discordbot> @Hejnewar Why shouldn't it be possible? 20180722 23:12:30<+discordbot> Wierd they took out black and white skellys ;-; 20180722 23:12:48<+discordbot> what was the cheat forr full map reveal? 20180722 23:12:54<+discordbot> :shroud 20180722 23:13:07< celmin> WTH is a black skelly 20180722 23:13:13<+discordbot> oooh 20180722 23:13:16<+discordbot> Wow 20180722 23:13:18< celmin> FTR there's also :fog 20180722 23:13:18<+discordbot> you know what campaign i'd really enjoy 20180722 23:13:20<+discordbot> black player, probably 20180722 23:13:23<+discordbot> A skeleton leader with teamcolor black. 20180722 23:13:25< celmin> Ah okay 20180722 23:13:26<+discordbot> trolls killed bland and white skellys 20180722 23:13:28<+discordbot> @Hejnewar :debug :shroud 20180722 23:13:35<+discordbot> In that order 20180722 23:13:45<+discordbot> A campaign where you have the same orcs as there are in Bad Moon 20180722 23:13:49<+discordbot> and you play a warchief boye 20180722 23:13:53<+discordbot> and you get these northern wolves aswell 20180722 23:14:01<+discordbot> cause a "Fright Wolf" looks cool af 20180722 23:14:03<+discordbot> i know about debug i use it too often when i preform tests or something 20180722 23:14:05<+discordbot> Go on, make it. xD 20180722 23:14:12<+discordbot> lmao 20180722 23:14:16<+discordbot> I can try? 20180722 23:14:26<+discordbot> That's how wesnoth works, right? 20180722 23:14:28<+discordbot> My campaign will be ass though because idk anything about making one 20180722 23:14:39<+discordbot> And dwarfs are still standing strong 20180722 23:15:26<+discordbot> For one, you might want to try coordinating with doofus-01, because he has the lore for those orcs and might be able to give you ideas about what and 'when' to make that campaign. 20180722 23:15:31<+discordbot> 34/45 20180722 23:16:28<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/470730877085679647/17.jpg 20180722 23:16:32<+discordbot> Will i make it? xD 20180722 23:16:46<+discordbot> Trolls did all the job for me xD 20180722 23:17:17<+discordbot> u need to get like 5 spaces away from him 20180722 23:17:30<+discordbot> I mean. Most of these orcs lack a description 20180722 23:17:48<+discordbot> plus if a campaign wants even a slim chance at mainline 20180722 23:17:57<+discordbot> It should only have default chars with one or two custom 20180722 23:17:58<+discordbot> right 20180722 23:18:09<+discordbot> unless Burning suns 20180722 23:18:09<+discordbot> xd 20180722 23:18:36<+discordbot> Alright Hejewnar, the best strategy to survive now is to follow the railroad and recruit meat shields. 20180722 23:18:44-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180722 23:19:41<+discordbot> 1 dead about 9 more to go 😄 20180722 23:19:42<+discordbot> I don't really believe in him winning. 20180722 23:20:24<+discordbot> @Hyperwolf72 Wait, so you want the campaign to be mainline? Why? 20180722 23:20:38<+discordbot> nahhh 20180722 23:20:52<+discordbot> Maybe i sound stupid but im not as stupid as i sound xD 20180722 23:20:55<+discordbot> Then why worry about it? 20180722 23:20:58<+discordbot> I wanna make a campaign cause campaign 20180722 23:21:12<+discordbot> and if it ends up mainline then it does 20180722 23:21:35<+discordbot> Uh. It would be your choice as well if it became mainline. 20180722 23:21:43<+discordbot> Wym? 20180722 23:22:20<+discordbot> It's not like the devs pick a UMC campaign and say 'This is gonna be mainline! No objectiontions!' 20180722 23:22:27<+discordbot> haha 20180722 23:22:33<+discordbot> nah 20180722 23:22:39<+discordbot> You can just say 'no'. 20180722 23:22:57<+discordbot> mainline means maintenence (i cant spell that word lmao) 20180722 23:23:21<+discordbot> Uh. By now I have no idea what you might mean. 20180722 23:23:37<+discordbot> having a mainline campaign would mean that i'd have to upkeep it 20180722 23:23:44<+discordbot> the more I think about it 20180722 23:23:46<+discordbot> Maintain. 20180722 23:23:49<+discordbot> Not necessarily. 20180722 23:24:03<+discordbot> We've taken over abandoned campaigns or haven't adopted the author in before. 20180722 23:24:26<+discordbot> But most of them do get dropped. 😦 20180722 23:24:32<+discordbot> No? 20180722 23:24:38<+discordbot> I am sloth incarnate 20180722 23:25:12<+discordbot> The only campaigns that have ever been removed from mainline are The Dark Hordes (which was never completed), Son of the Black Eye (which was incomplete and then completed years later), and Under the Burning Suns (for like 2 hours). 20180722 23:25:15<+discordbot> They don't? I can kinda remember a myriad of campaigns that didn't yet make it to 1.14 or even to 1.10 20180722 23:25:22<+discordbot> Oh, no. 20180722 23:25:33<+discordbot> oo 20180722 23:25:37<+discordbot> He mispelled maintaining a campaign. 20180722 23:25:38<+discordbot> The Dark Hordes sounds interesting 20180722 23:25:44<+discordbot> He didn't mean mainline. 20180722 23:25:47<+discordbot> It's really not. 20180722 23:25:51<+discordbot> Confused me too. 20180722 23:25:59<+discordbot> Like I said, it was never completed and it really lost direction. 20180722 23:26:14<+discordbot> It was a very meh campaign. 20180722 23:26:36<+discordbot> what was the black hordes about 20180722 23:26:50<+discordbot> Undead. 20180722 23:26:51<+discordbot> The Dark Hordes was an undead campaign. 20180722 23:26:53<+discordbot> dark hordes 20180722 23:26:54<+discordbot> Surprise! 20180722 23:26:54<+discordbot> sry 20180722 23:26:55<+discordbot> You played a necromancer. 20180722 23:27:07<+discordbot> Demiliches were nice though. 20180722 23:27:08<+discordbot> ANOTHER one? ' 20180722 23:27:09<+discordbot> Except without any heroic intentions like lil' old Malin over there. 20180722 23:27:32<+discordbot> So you were the cliche evil necromancer? 20180722 23:27:32<+discordbot> It was the first. 20180722 23:27:34<+discordbot> Yeah. 20180722 23:27:44<+discordbot> You had a brother. 20180722 23:28:00<+discordbot> I gotta figure out what I wanna make my campaign about 20180722 23:28:00<+discordbot> Which you then killed in scenario 2. 20180722 23:28:01<+discordbot> Wow. Was this removed very on in Wesnoth's history? 20180722 23:28:06<+discordbot> Yeah. 20180722 23:28:11<+discordbot> early on* 20180722 23:28:13<+discordbot> can't type today 20180722 23:28:14<+discordbot> It was in Wesnoth 1.0 and removed in 1.1.x. 20180722 23:28:15<+discordbot> anything but elves 20180722 23:28:30<+discordbot> So we're talking 2005/early 2006 here. 20180722 23:28:36<+discordbot> wow 20180722 23:28:41<+discordbot> I thought you were already decided on the orcs? 20180722 23:28:45<+discordbot> yeah I didn't pick it up until a few years later 20180722 23:29:19<+discordbot> Do we have any protagonists with close family that's still alive? 20180722 23:29:30<+discordbot> o 20180722 23:29:36<+discordbot> Hmm. 20180722 23:29:42<+discordbot> A Tale of Two Brothers. 20180722 23:29:47<+discordbot> lmao 20180722 23:29:48<+discordbot> They both survive at the end. 20180722 23:29:51<+discordbot> Touché. 20180722 23:30:02<+discordbot> But they weren't close at the beginning. ^^ 20180722 23:30:13<+discordbot> Cause of the past 20180722 23:30:15<+discordbot> And Haldric starts a family at the end of TRoW I guess? 20180722 23:30:19<+discordbot> (Does that count?) 20180722 23:30:24<+discordbot> So does uhh 20180722 23:30:25<+discordbot> Konrad 20180722 23:30:38<+discordbot> and uh 20180722 23:30:40<+discordbot> delfador is konrad's dad 20180722 23:30:40<+discordbot> the elf 20180722 23:30:47<+discordbot> I can't even remember his name 20180722 23:30:49<+discordbot> Kalenz 20180722 23:30:50<+discordbot> you know the one I mean 20180722 23:30:51<+discordbot> yeah 20180722 23:30:51<+discordbot> Why do we write all our protagonists as missing half or more of their family 20180722 23:31:03<+discordbot> Brutal life and all that. 20180722 23:31:04<+discordbot> it's 20180722 23:31:09<+discordbot> sad boy points 20180722 23:31:12<+discordbot> More freedom for interactions? 20180722 23:31:18<+discordbot> I think it's what Konrad2 just said. 20180722 23:31:36<+discordbot> Kalenz was in like 20180722 23:31:40<+discordbot> 3 mainline campaings 20180722 23:31:43<+discordbot> Liberty is another one. 20180722 23:31:44<+discordbot> and i didnt remember his name 20180722 23:31:52<+discordbot> (I don't even remember why Galas is an orphan but it was probably just to copy UtBS.) 20180722 23:32:08<+discordbot> (Except he does have a maternal figure substitute whereas Kaleh doesn't.) 20180722 23:32:12<+discordbot> his dad died trying to steal ogre eggs 20180722 23:32:18<+discordbot> from ogre mountain 20180722 23:32:36<+discordbot> V aricks 20180722 23:32:38<+discordbot> His Father died vs something, orcs, right? 20180722 23:32:45<+discordbot> If you and me both say that ogres lay eggs in our campaigns 20180722 23:32:47<+discordbot> it must become canon 20180722 23:32:50<+discordbot> Reading this just made me realise 75%+ of characters in my works have a really bad past or dead relatives 20180722 23:32:58<+discordbot> Pretty much UtBS reason copy paste. 20180722 23:32:59<+discordbot> No Galas' father died to humans. 20180722 23:33:03<+discordbot> Oh. 20180722 23:33:07<+discordbot> idk what Kaleh's died to. 20180722 23:33:20<+discordbot> His dad died to Orcs. 20180722 23:33:24<+discordbot> I'm pretty sure. 20180722 23:33:51<+discordbot> Yeah 20180722 23:33:54<+discordbot> Uh. 20180722 23:33:55<+discordbot> Varicks 20180722 23:34:08<+discordbot> I think his father died to magic. 20180722 23:34:22<+discordbot> There was an orcish raid then the next day there was a sandstorm or something and his father kinda died 20180722 23:34:24<+discordbot> Yeah. 20180722 23:34:25<+discordbot> from what I remember 20180722 23:34:41< mattsc> @Hyperwolf72 You should make your campaign about goblins. There aren’t enough goblin campaigns out there. ;) 20180722 23:35:02<+discordbot> So that's either some weird orcish magic or nature saying 'screw these elves in particular'. 20180722 23:35:04<+discordbot> Maybe it's not magic but I'm surprised they couldn't find a single body. 20180722 23:35:42<+discordbot> Yeah. 20180722 23:35:48<+discordbot> Big sandstorm. 20180722 23:36:06<+discordbot> And no idea where or how much to dig. 20180722 23:36:25<+discordbot> come in all 20180722 23:36:25<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/470735896715460608/unknown.png 20180722 23:36:27<+discordbot> shapes and 20180722 23:36:28<+discordbot> Even in most fantasy works when something happens like that, they usually do something like 'we found many bodies, but we didn't find x's body' or 'we found some bodies, but not all, and x's hasn't been found'. 20180722 23:37:16<+discordbot> haha 20180722 23:37:17<+discordbot> but 20180722 23:37:22<+discordbot> Goblins have such limited units 20180722 23:37:28<+discordbot> OOH GOBLIN WARBOSS 20180722 23:37:31<+discordbot> UNITE THE HORDE 20180722 23:37:33<+discordbot> In this particular case it might have made sense to say that they found few bodies. 20180722 23:38:10<+discordbot> flip everything around 20180722 23:38:13<+discordbot> little goblin warboss 20180722 23:38:15<+discordbot> leading hordes of orcs 20180722 23:38:25< celmin> [Jul 22@7:25:12pm] discordbot: The only campaigns that have ever been removed from mainline are The Dark Hordes (which was never completed), Son of the Black Eye (which was incomplete and then completed years later), and Under the Burning Suns (for like 2 hours). 20180722 23:38:26<+discordbot> because smort 20180722 23:38:28<+discordbot> I even use that trope in the case of one of my works. There's a bloody civil war and a nation splits into three, and when it's over, the original king was never found amongst the bodies of the battles 20180722 23:38:34< celmin> I find UtBS's removal oddly amusing. 20180722 23:38:58< celmin> This makes me wonder what The Dark Hordes was even about, too. 20180722 23:39:09< celmin> Though from the name it already doesn't sound that great. 20180722 23:39:50<+discordbot> I wish there were more campaigns around a single game-changing ability like the Ooze's plague 20180722 23:39:55-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20180722 23:40:06<+discordbot> that seems like the best way to make a campaign distinct and interesting, not "X race does not yet have a campaign" 20180722 23:40:27<+discordbot> Yeah, that'd be cool 20180722 23:40:35< celmin> But IMO "X race does not have a campaign" is still an important consideration. 20180722 23:41:02< celmin> By itself, sure, it's not a good way to make a campaign interesting or even distinct. 20180722 23:41:07<+discordbot> Like, I'd love a Drakish [Drakini? Draki?] campaign, but I don't want it to be a hastily put together one with the main reason being drakes don't have a campaign. 20180722 23:41:14<+discordbot> celmin: It was literally just a necromancer trying to take over the wolrd. 20180722 23:41:17< celmin> It won't be. 20180722 23:41:27<+discordbot> Well, take over Wesnoth, really. 20180722 23:41:39< mattsc> It’s much better when it’s lab mice that are trying to take over the world. 20180722 23:41:44<+discordbot> Back to Kaleh. 20180722 23:41:52<+discordbot> I've read it up now. 20180722 23:42:00<+discordbot> 1. Wesnoth; 2. The World. 3. ???? 4. Profit from a dead wasteland somehow maybe. 20180722 23:42:00< celmin> Hamel - Generally campaigns are not built specifically for mainline; instead we take existing user-made campaigns and polish them up. 20180722 23:42:14< celmin> shadowm - Yeah that doesn't sound great. 20180722 23:42:23<+discordbot> He didn't manage to find his father in the sand after the sandstorm. 20180722 23:42:27<+discordbot> The exception to that rule incidentally are the og campaigns plus THoT. 20180722 23:42:28< celmin> So I guess I can't regret that being removed. 20180722 23:42:34< celmin> og? 20180722 23:42:39<+discordbot> They said nothing about not finding any other bodies. 20180722 23:42:39< celmin> Which rule? 20180722 23:42:59<+discordbot> HttT, EI, TRoW, SotBE's first half were all written for mainline. 20180722 23:43:14<+discordbot> And so was THoT. 20180722 23:43:21<+discordbot> I think campaigns typically try to justify that by implying that Necromancers are typically driven mad 20180722 23:43:51<+discordbot> Yeah TDH's protagonist didn't have a justification. 20180722 23:43:54<+discordbot> He just wanted UNLIMITED POWER 20180722 23:44:24<+discordbot> Which is a fair reason if you are delving into taboo practices. 20180722 23:44:34<+discordbot> I love it when stories actually explain all the characters. As a [kinda] writer, I dislike it when it's like 'oh this guy is evil just because he is and plot'. 20180722 23:44:41< celmin> shadowm what does "og" mean 20180722 23:44:42<+discordbot> @Konrad2 It says nothing about succeeding at finding the bodies either. 20180722 23:45:13< celmin> Yeah it's good to justify the antagonists. 20180722 23:45:39< celmin> Like the orc big bad in Aleron has a hidden motive which is actually noble, he's just choose not-so-noble methods. 20180722 23:45:44< celmin> ^chosen 20180722 23:46:04< celmin> And the sequel that I still haven't really worked on is supposed to get into that more. 20180722 23:46:23<+discordbot> I just don't like it when the only reason a guy is evil is PLOT. 20180722 23:46:26<+discordbot> Yep, but at least we don't have to wonder about why they couldn't find any bodies. Because this way we don't know either way. ^^ 20180722 23:47:23<+discordbot> My headcanon is they didnt' find any bodies and the sandstorm wasn't natural. 20180722 23:47:49<+discordbot> But...why? 20180722 23:48:25<+discordbot> Well, it could be a beginning of something. I love when unwritten elements are revealed, it makes the plot jucier. 20180722 23:49:23<+discordbot> Let's take the example. If I said no bodies were found and the storm didn't seem natural it wouldn't be as good [imo] as kaleh's father was not found in the great storm, along with many others 20180722 23:49:38< celmin> I mean plot is an okay reason but yeah not a good one. 20180722 23:50:01< celmin> Also I generally like it better if the bad guy isn't evil. 20180722 23:50:01<+discordbot> What would be a good reason? 20180722 23:50:06<+discordbot> ^^^ 20180722 23:50:09< celmin> @Konrad2 Actual motives? 20180722 23:50:31<+discordbot> The thing about the best villains is they think they're the good guy. 20180722 23:50:44<+discordbot> So don't just make him be like 'i'm evil and plot' 20180722 23:50:47<+discordbot> But, wanting to see people hurt, is kinda just evil for being evil. Is that even a motive? 20180722 23:51:13<+discordbot> I'm not sure where to stop justifying. 20180722 23:51:27<+discordbot> Well, there should be a reason why he wants said people to get hurt. 20180722 23:51:35<+discordbot> He's a sadist. 20180722 23:51:43<+discordbot> Like maybe x nation or x race took y member of his family away 20180722 23:52:07<+discordbot> i think it is quite fine for a villain to be just evil 20180722 23:52:17<+discordbot> Well...sadism is an interesting 'coin' in story terms. Use it right, you have a good villain. 20180722 23:52:20<+discordbot> Joffrey from Game of Thrones was a great villain and a great character 20180722 23:53:17<+discordbot> i liked how, in aGoT, there are these legends of ancient kings and their mysterious madnesses... 20180722 23:53:29<+discordbot> and then there is joffrey who is a vicious little shit in a very mundane way 20180722 23:53:32<+discordbot> Incest can do that. xD 20180722 23:54:12<+discordbot> Well, in my tales/works, I usually have the villain driven by [x] motive, which drives him to [x] point, and he shuts himself off from the other side, demonizing it. That's how I often write my villains. 20180722 23:54:34<+discordbot> That's the 'likeable' villian. 20180722 23:55:09<+discordbot> Joffrey is a good example for the unlikeable villian. 20180722 23:55:19<+discordbot> Yes. 20180722 23:55:34<+discordbot> Like Mal Keshar would be a good villain because he had a purpose. 20180722 23:55:45<+discordbot> Still has. 20180722 23:55:52<+discordbot> AtS isn't on 1.14 yet! 20180722 23:56:14<+discordbot> Yes, still has. 20180722 23:56:20<+discordbot> He's basically still alive and got a nice redemption arc. 20180722 23:56:32<+discordbot> Yes, AtS is good. 20180722 23:56:39<+discordbot> You might enjoy watching Eyeshield 21. 20180722 23:57:24<+discordbot> And of course Avatar. xD 20180722 23:58:14<+discordbot> Wish me luck with my exam in 8 hours. ._. 20180722 23:58:24<+discordbot> Yes, Avatar is a good show 20180722 23:58:43<+discordbot> it's one of the three shows I have ever completed 20180722 23:59:03<+discordbot> i didnt like it, but what became of Avatar sequels 20180722 23:59:17<+discordbot> it has been 10 years now, and the sequels were planned already before the first movie 20180722 23:59:47<+discordbot> Do you mean The Legend of Korra? 20180722 23:59:50< celmin> @Konrad2 - Not all villains are doing things with the goal of hurting people. --- Log closed Mon Jul 23 00:00:09 2018