--- Log opened Sat Aug 11 00:00:22 2018 --- Day changed Sat Aug 11 2018 20180811 00:00:22< gfgtdf> buttons can also enable markup 20180811 00:00:43< gfgtdf> it's a propertly of the single widget not of its type. 20180811 00:03:33< celticminstrel> gfgtdf, maybe you know how to deal with show_dialog raising an exception. 20180811 00:03:46< celticminstrel> Or the "can't fit on canvas" when I use a size_lock. 20180811 00:03:51< gfgtdf> wedge009: most of the times its set in the wml liek here https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/1.14.4/data/gui/window/attack_predictions.cfg#L60 but sometimes its also set by the c++ code. 20180811 00:05:02< celticminstrel> ...typo alert on line 83. 20180811 00:05:04< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: hmm not really all i remember is that making labls wrap properly can be really frustrating. 20180811 00:06:01< gfgtdf> in the file i linked? i think that on line 83 is just an id. 20180811 00:06:56< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: i think i ended up using a scroll_label in my addon, but was somehwo unhappy with that aswell... 20180811 00:08:02< celticminstrel> I tried both. It refused to wrap until the window reached the window edge. 20180811 00:08:21< celticminstrel> Which is why I then tried a size_lock, but then the label doesn't even display because it thinks there's no room. 20180811 00:08:42< celticminstrel> I imagine I could get it to work if I locked width and height but I don't really want to do that. 20180811 00:08:49<+wesdiscordbot> Labels are weird like that 20180811 00:08:51< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: iirc size_lock had no option to only lock with with or only the height so it was somehwat unusble for my case. 20180811 00:09:07< celticminstrel> ISTR Jyrki saying otherwise though... 20180811 00:09:14<+wesdiscordbot> You don’t need either a wrap 20180811 00:09:17<+wesdiscordbot> Or a size lock 20180811 00:09:20< celticminstrel> ??? 20180811 00:09:22<+wesdiscordbot> Or well shouldn’t 20180811 00:09:27<+wesdiscordbot> It should just work 20180811 00:09:29<+wesdiscordbot> Sometimes 20180811 00:09:33< celticminstrel> Well it's not. 20180811 00:09:37<+wesdiscordbot> Well, most of the time 20180811 00:09:41<+wesdiscordbot> Sometimes it doesn’t 20180811 00:09:45<+wesdiscordbot> Idk why 20180811 00:09:47<+wesdiscordbot> It sucks 20180811 00:09:49<+wesdiscordbot> It’s bad 20180811 00:09:57< celticminstrel> I have UPP / label // spacer / button 20180811 00:10:08< celticminstrel> Where // is a row delimiter and / is a column delimiter. 20180811 00:11:57< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: from the code it looks like it just always returned that fixed size https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/1.14/src/gui/widgets/size_lock.cpp#L88 i see no code for 'lock with and calculate height based on that width' there but it coudl ofc be that its somwhere else in the gui2 code and called if on of the dimensions rturned by calculate_best_size is zero 20180811 00:12:34< celticminstrel> The stacked-widget-with-spacer trick only works to set a minimum size, right? 20180811 00:13:03< gfgtdf> yes 20180811 00:13:37< gfgtdf> i think only somone that really know how gui2 layouting works can help you here. 20180811 00:18:20< gfgtdf> maybe you coudl make a grid, with a dummy colum with a vertical spacer that makes sure the widget is high enough, and on the other coum your widget with a size_lock that make sure so lock the with. 20180811 00:18:22< gfgtdf> width* 20180811 00:19:08< gfgtdf> actualyl that was totally bling guess, probably a bad idea 20180811 00:19:13< gfgtdf> blind* 20180811 00:19:23< celticminstrel> Ugh ugh... 20180811 00:19:44< celticminstrel> Hmm, yeah, I don't think setting a minimum height seems all that helpful? 20180811 00:20:37-!- louis94 [~~louis94@109.49-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20180811 00:32:03< sevu> Can anyone create an MP game without receiving an error? 20180811 00:45:54<+wesdiscordbot> @shadowm leaving you a ping in case it's a general problem 20180811 00:46:40< gfgtdf> sevu: well there are multiple mp games on the serevr so i'd say yes. 20180811 00:47:27< gfgtdf> sevu: just created a game, 20180811 00:47:48< gfgtdf> using version 1.14.4+dev not sure which commit exactly. 20180811 00:48:50<+wesdiscordbot> the server crashed earlier, I'm pretty sure, but I was able to reload and complete a game fine 20180811 00:48:54<+wesdiscordbot> using the steam version 20180811 00:49:43< sevu> I got yesterday a boost upgrade which forced me to rebuild, some commit from the last week probably in my case 20180811 00:50:06< gfgtdf> Pentarctagon:; a few day ago the server crashed becasue we tried top update it to a newer version so that migth be it. 20180811 00:50:10< gfgtdf> days* 20180811 00:50:46< gfgtdf> @shadowm: do you get notified when the server crahses and does it restart automaticially ? 20180811 00:51:41< sevu> it restarts automatically (she told that some day) 20180811 00:52:20<+wesdiscordbot> in the mod mods channel it also logged: tail: '/home/wesnoth/servers/stable/current.log' has been replaced; following new file 20180811 00:52:48<+wesdiscordbot> *mp mods 20180811 00:53:00<+wesdiscordbot> so I assume that's it restarting 20180811 00:53:23< gfgtdf> how do i see the 'mod mods channel' ? 20180811 00:53:44<+wesdiscordbot> mp mods, I meant 20180811 00:54:28< gfgtdf> is that an irc channel ? 20180811 00:54:34<+wesdiscordbot> yeah 20180811 00:54:59<+wesdiscordbot> not sure what it is on the IRC side, but it's linked with discord like this one is 20180811 00:57:52< gfgtdf> hmm im seem to be unable to join that channel, but i wouldnt halp me now anyways as i wouldn't see the past logy anways. 20180811 00:58:35<+wesdiscordbot> finally got a response to that std::filesystem issue after 3 months 20180811 00:59:05< gfgtdf> link? 20180811 00:59:22<+wesdiscordbot> https://developercommunity.visualstudio.com/content/problem/251213/stdfilesystemfile-time-type-does-not-allow-easy-co.html 20180811 00:59:38<+wesdiscordbot> basically they said they can't implement it with system_clock 20180811 01:01:14< celticminstrel> I can't read the comments unfortunately. 20180811 01:02:02< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: you have to enable javascript 20180811 01:02:22< celticminstrel> More likely it's cookies not JavaScript... 20180811 01:02:49< gfgtdf> i also couldn't see the comment until i allsowed js for that page 20180811 01:03:02< gfgtdf> any why shodul it be cookies ? 20180811 01:03:30< celticminstrel> It's usually cookies. 20180811 01:03:33< celticminstrel> I don't know why. 20180811 01:03:40< gfgtdf> hmm k 20180811 01:03:56<+wesdiscordbot> you don't have javascript enabled? 20180811 01:03:58<+wesdiscordbot> jesus 20180811 01:04:06<+wesdiscordbot> Taking security to an extreme there. 20180811 01:04:18< celticminstrel> FTR I have JS enabled but not cookies. 20180811 01:04:21<+wesdiscordbot> it's honestly just stupid in today's world 20180811 01:04:34< celticminstrel> No, it actually isn't. 20180811 01:04:52<+wesdiscordbot> well, good luck with most of the web not working 20180811 01:05:00<+wesdiscordbot> if you don't have it enabled 20180811 01:05:20<+wesdiscordbot> honestly, browsers should just remove the ability to disable it. 20180811 01:05:50< celticminstrel> I disagree. 20180811 01:05:51< gfgtdf> i have for js a whitelist of pages. And i have seen a ton of pages that will immidiately load tond of unneeded stuff that just slow the page down making browsing quite very annoing. 20180811 01:08:44<+wesdiscordbot> i mean, yeah, that's true 20180811 01:09:58<+wesdiscordbot> @sevu, gfgtdf: What seems to be the problem again? 20180811 01:10:26< gfgtdf> sevu always get disconnects when he tries to create mp games. 20180811 01:10:57<+wesdiscordbot> I could reproduce it 100%, one lime I lauchned with --noaddons, since then it works even with addons… 20180811 01:11:13<+wesdiscordbot> So it doesn't happen anymore? 20180811 01:11:49<+wesdiscordbot> no. 20180811 01:11:58<+wesdiscordbot> Okay. 20180811 01:13:38<+wesdiscordbot> I've got bad news for you anyway. 20180811 01:13:46<+wesdiscordbot> I can't load wesnoth.org lol 20180811 01:13:53<+wesdiscordbot> Feature idea: Fund wesnoth.org by bitcoin mining multiplayer games!! 20180811 01:14:02<+wesdiscordbot> wesnoth.org is already funded. 20180811 01:14:35<+wesdiscordbot> It's units.w.o o'clock isn't it? 20180811 01:16:08<+wesdiscordbot> Yep, I see it there. 20180811 01:16:10<+wesdiscordbot> It's running. 20180811 01:16:23<+wesdiscordbot> Then people ask me why I despise units.w.o so much. 20180811 01:17:31<+wesdiscordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/477646712937250826/unknown.png 20180811 01:22:09<+wesdiscordbot> I'm not convinced it's actually doing anything tbh. 20180811 01:22:17<+wesdiscordbot> The RSS has stayed constant for 5 minutes 20180811 01:24:25<+wesdiscordbot> Okay, no units.wesnoth.org for you kids this week. 20180811 01:25:33< celticminstrel> :( 20180811 01:25:38<+wesdiscordbot> I don't know how on earth someone managed to get wmlunits stuck in an infinite loop that flipflops between running and waiting for system calls but it appears to have happened and I don't have patience for that crap. 20180811 01:25:40<+wesdiscordbot> You're breaking our server. 20180811 01:30:14-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4dbb4145.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20180811 01:35:58-!- lilinitsy_ [~demonitsy@75-168-95-50.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 01:37:18-!- sevu [~sevu@p548551F3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180811 02:23:11<+wesdiscordbot> Well, there it is ... 20180811 02:24:12<+wesdiscordbot> (talking about Issue 3450 for those on irc) 20180811 02:25:05<+wesdiscordbot> I've been very hesitant to post that, as it looks like a lot of work. 😛 20180811 02:34:32<+wesdiscordbot> is "remove FAI" on there? 20180811 02:36:59<+wesdiscordbot> it is not 20180811 02:38:18<+wesdiscordbot> It is not as I don't think we reached a consensus the last time we talked about it. 20180811 02:38:31<+wesdiscordbot> So I left that for comments to be made. 20180811 02:39:36<+wesdiscordbot> le sign 20180811 02:40:34<+wesdiscordbot> of course, how could one forget, any big change must be debated as if this were the Council of Nicaea 🙄 20180811 02:42:07<+wesdiscordbot> Indeed, shame on you. 😉 20180811 03:33:54-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180811 03:34:00-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 03:48:01< celticminstrel> mattsc, what would you suggest is the best way to make the leader not move to attack one specific unit type? 20180811 03:48:35< celticminstrel> ie, the leader will attack one if it's adjacent but won't move away from the keep to attack it; but only for that one specific unit type. 20180811 03:50:27< celticminstrel> (Also, about breaking compatibility in ai_helper, I think you really need to decide... is ai_helper part of the official API, in which case compatibility needs to be maintained? Or is it unofficial and experimental, meaning anyone who dares to use it needs to be prepared for breakages?) 20180811 03:52:27-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180811 03:54:16<+wesdiscordbot> celticminstrel: Ooo, that's a good one. There's no good mechanism for that, but ... 20180811 03:54:19-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 03:55:02<+wesdiscordbot> Exclude the leader from attacks using the attacks aspect, then set up a Simple Attack MAI for the leader against all other unit types and the specified unit type when adjacent. Might work ... 20180811 03:55:47<+wesdiscordbot> And ai_helper, yeah ... ai_helper.lua itself states that it is the later in a comment at the beginning. 20180811 03:55:50< celticminstrel> Hmm... 20180811 03:56:04< celticminstrel> Not sure if I like this solution... 20180811 03:56:19<+wesdiscordbot> Only one I can think of on the spot. 20180811 03:57:01<+wesdiscordbot> Well, only one other than writing your own Lua CA. 20180811 03:57:07<+wesdiscordbot> I got to go right now, I'll see if I can come up with something else. 20180811 03:57:57<+wesdiscordbot> s / later / latter 20180811 04:02:25< celticminstrel> Okay. 20180811 04:09:16-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20180811 06:06:52<+wesdiscordbot> @Vultraz This is the most important part of Billy O'Neal's response: "we guarantee that the result of file_time_clock is usable in APIs expecting FILETIME" 20180811 06:07:30<+wesdiscordbot> Thus, file_time_clock's epoch and tick rate are indeed documented, which is the minimum requirement to determine the instant of time where it points. 20180811 06:07:53<+wesdiscordbot> (Epoch is January 1, 1601. Tick length is 100 nanoseconds.) 20180811 06:08:18<+wesdiscordbot> So basically we need to do the calculations ourselves? 20180811 06:08:22<+wesdiscordbot> Yes. 20180811 06:08:26<+wesdiscordbot> :thonk: 20180811 06:08:57<+wesdiscordbot> (out of curiosity, do you happen to have an idea what "C+E Security" refers to in his title?) 20180811 06:09:56<+wesdiscordbot> You could also pass the time to FileTimeToSystemTime() and let Windows perform the calculations for you: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms724280(v=vs.85).aspx 20180811 06:10:44<+wesdiscordbot> No, I have no idea what "C+E Security" means. 20180811 06:13:47<+wesdiscordbot> I'm glad at least they took time to consider the problem and formulae a helpful response 20180811 06:18:55<+wesdiscordbot> AFAIK, the plan with std::chrono had always been to eventually support dates as well in addition to just raw time intervals. Unfortunately that part was way too late for C++17 (it was finally voted in to C++20 in March 2018). 20180811 06:19:16<+wesdiscordbot> As a result, std::filesystem ended up with pretty much useless timestamps. 20180811 06:19:55<+wesdiscordbot> nods 20180811 06:20:23<+wesdiscordbot> i guess the choice would have been to either drop fs from the 17 standard or leave it incomplete 20180811 06:21:18<+wesdiscordbot> Interesting that O'Neal didn't link to any page where file_time_clock is documented. I wonder if your bug report is the only place that documents that file_time_clock is compatible with Windows FILETIME. 😦 20180811 06:21:37<+wesdiscordbot> (That would be especially bad for other C++ programmers who run into the same problem.) 20180811 06:22:02-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 06:23:17<+wesdiscordbot> BTW, here's a blog post about the C++20 date support: https://mariusbancila.ro/blog/2018/03/27/cpp20-calendars-and-time-zones/ 20180811 06:37:26<+wesdiscordbot> If they fail to properly document their stuff, well, that’s on them. 😛 20180811 07:02:51-!- matthiaskrgr [matthiaskr@gateway/shell/panicbnc/x-gibqvzzgfykscltz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180811 07:06:01-!- valdar [~atarocch@93.68.160.232] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 07:27:02-!- matth1askrgr [matthiaskr@gateway/shell/panicbnc/x-hkmuuyxrpquesxkd] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 07:56:19-!- valdar [~atarocch@93.68.160.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20180811 09:16:22-!- Nobun [~user@host149-43-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 09:25:58-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 09:50:32-!- Nobun [~user@host149-43-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: preparing to train travel] 20180811 10:15:24<+wesdiscordbot> Um. 20180811 10:15:58<+wesdiscordbot> I droided a side in a 1v1 game with both clients on my machine connected to the 1.14 official server (which I just updated and restarted). 20180811 10:16:02<+wesdiscordbot> And the client froze. 20180811 10:16:17<+wesdiscordbot> After "undoing all moves not yet transmitted to the server". 20180811 10:17:44<+wesdiscordbot> Granted, it might be a little out of date... 3ebd91e62a 20180811 10:21:28-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-221-82-230.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 10:21:29< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#19128 (master - 7dcc0d4 : Martin Hrubý): The build passed. 20180811 10:21:29< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/414821672 20180811 10:21:29-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-221-82-230.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180811 11:10:55-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4dbbe692.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 11:12:18< gfgtdf> @gfgtdf did you use delayed shroud updates ? 20180811 11:12:41< gfgtdf> @shadowm : did you use delaye srhodu updates ? 20180811 11:12:50<+wesdiscordbot> Yes. 20180811 11:14:40< gfgtdf> ok then it's likely to be caused by that. 20180811 11:15:21< gfgtdf> ok just tested just starting a local mp game game, pressing 'toggle shroudl updates' two times and then droiding the side freezes the client. 20180811 11:17:33-!- nurupo [~nurupo.ga@unaffiliated/nurupo] has quit [Quit: nurupo] 20180811 11:18:42-!- nurupo [~nurupo.ga@unaffiliated/nurupo] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 11:20:54< gfgtdf> thx for updating the server by the way, 20180811 11:28:07-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180811 11:28:13-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 11:51:20-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 11:58:52-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-146-214-36.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 11:58:53< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#19130 (better_os_version_handling - d6258b5 : Martin Hrubý (hrubymar10)): The build was broken. 20180811 11:58:53< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/414840286 20180811 11:58:53-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-146-214-36.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180811 12:38:15-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180811 12:38:20-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 12:58:08-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-146-214-36.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 12:58:09< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#19137 (Fix_Wesnoth_for_Xcode_10 - ac43a2d : Jyrki Vesterinen): The build was canceled. 20180811 12:58:09< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/414856602 20180811 12:58:09-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-146-214-36.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180811 13:27:08-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180811 13:27:14-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 13:28:26-!- lilinitsy_ [~demonitsy@75-168-95-50.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180811 13:50:00-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 13:54:44-!- valdar [~atarocch@31.159.157.190] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 13:57:27 * celticminstrel pokes gfgtdf 20180811 13:57:44< celticminstrel> You said no_leader is basically obsolete because it does the same thing as something else, right? What was that something else? 20180811 13:58:01< celticminstrel> (Also just to clarify, that applies to single-player, right?) 20180811 14:04:45< mattsc> celticminstrel: on your AI question from yesterday, I don’t think there’s a good way to do that other than writing your own CA. 20180811 14:05:03< mattsc> The problem with my suggested solution from yesterday is that the Simple AI always attacks. 20180811 14:05:40< mattsc> The only other thing I can come up with is to write some code (WML event or Lua CA) which dynamically updates the attacks aspect every time a unit moves or attacks. 20180811 14:11:09-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-146-214-36.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 14:11:10< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#19141 (Fix_Wesnoth_for_Xcode_10 - edbe4ec : Martin Hrubý (hrubymar10)): The build failed. 20180811 14:11:10< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/414861521 20180811 14:11:10-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-146-214-36.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180811 14:11:56< mattsc> celticminstrel: gfgtdf said that no_leader= has no effect (other than silencing wmllint, and that might be taken care of by now, I don’t know) in campaigns any more. It is now taken care of by type= 20180811 14:12:24< mattsc> So if you don’t want a leader, leave out type= (but then wmllint complains, which is the problem I had) 20180811 14:12:41< celticminstrel> Oh? So if I want to use [leader] tags for my leader, I don't need any extra key to indicate that it shouldn't try to make a leader from the [side] tag? 20180811 14:13:00< celticminstrel> Elvish_Hunter: Take note of this please? 20180811 14:13:12< mattsc> Apparently. I have not done that though. 20180811 14:13:24< celticminstrel> I will try it. 20180811 14:14:44<+wesdiscordbot> How can I fix Scons build for that? https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/jobs/414867399#L561 20180811 14:15:25<+wesdiscordbot> I believe that I already changed every occurrence of image.cpp to picture.cpp 20180811 14:18:36<+wesdiscordbot> Nope. 20180811 14:18:36<+wesdiscordbot> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/Fix_Wesnoth_for_Xcode_10/source_lists/libwesnoth#L31 20180811 14:33:08<+wesdiscordbot> Thank you jyrkive 20180811 14:44:49-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4dbbe692.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20180811 14:49:27-!- stikonas_ [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 14:49:33-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180811 15:09:58-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180811 15:10:04-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 15:15:06-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180811 15:15:11-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 15:27:30-!- stikonas_ is now known as stikonas 20180811 15:31:53<+wesdiscordbot> Question: I want share apple's dev software release notes but it may break their legal rules. Do you think that I can post their release notes in issue on github? Legal Notices The macOS pre-release software identified above and the macOS Beta Access Utility are Apple Confidential Information and your use of such software is subject to your Registered Apple Developer Agreement, Mac Developer Program License Agreement, 20180811 15:31:54<+wesdiscordbot> and the applicable license agreements accompanying such software. Distributing such software to anyone other than another Registered Apple Developer who is working for the same entity as you is considered a violation of your agreement with Apple and is damaging to both Apple and those who develop for the Apple platform. We sincerely appreciate your efforts to keep this Apple software Confidential. You agree that you will not export 20180811 15:31:54<+wesdiscordbot> or reexport any of the software or Confidential Information received from Apple (a) into (or to a national or resident of) any U.S. embargoed countries or (b) to anyone on the U.S. Treasury Department's list of Specially Designated Nationals or the U.S. Department of Commerce Denied Person's List or Entity List. You also agree that you will not use said software for any purposes where prohibited by United States law, including, 20180811 15:31:55<+wesdiscordbot> without limitation, the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missile, chemical or biological weapons. 20180811 15:32:52<+wesdiscordbot> Please try to find a public web page where the release notes are. 20180811 15:33:00<+wesdiscordbot> If you don't find one, best not to post them. 20180811 15:34:57<+wesdiscordbot> that reads to me like it's saying the actual pre-release software and Beta Access Utility themselves are confidential information. 20180811 15:35:18<+wesdiscordbot> which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me 20180811 15:37:07<+wesdiscordbot> I found it on 3rd party site 20180811 15:37:14<+wesdiscordbot> Good idea Jyrkive 20180811 15:37:28<+wesdiscordbot> not really a changelog, but there is this on the apple site: https://developer.apple.com/xcode/whats-new/ 20180811 15:37:32<+wesdiscordbot> has stuff for xcode 10 20180811 15:41:00<+wesdiscordbot> I needed release notes for both macOS and Xcode because of this: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/3451#issuecomment-412281981 20180811 15:42:55<+wesdiscordbot> The depracation of OpenGL on macOS is already public information. Apple announced it in WWDC 18. 20180811 15:42:56<+wesdiscordbot> https://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/WWDC-18-OpenGL-OpenCL-Are-Deprecated-Mac-iOS 20180811 15:43:53< celticminstrel> Is there an OpenGL-over-Metal implementation yet? 20180811 15:44:38-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-221-82-230.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 15:44:39< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#19147 (Fix_Wesnoth_for_Xcode_10 - ede015e : Martin Hrubý (hrubymar10)): The build passed. 20180811 15:44:39< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/414877927 20180811 15:44:39-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-221-82-230.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180811 15:45:39<+wesdiscordbot> There is MoltenGL, but it isn't free: https://moltengl.com/ 20180811 15:46:03<+wesdiscordbot> TBH, I think it would be easiest for us to just drop macOS support... 20180811 15:46:36< celticminstrel> XD Seriously? 20180811 15:46:59<+wesdiscordbot> I know one of the Metal devs. Supposedly it's not even designed to be easy for OGL devs to transition. 20180811 15:47:04< celticminstrel> If it's deprecated though that means it's still supported for now. 20180811 15:47:26< celticminstrel> And I'm sure there'll eventually be a free OpenGL-over-Metal? 20180811 15:48:27<+wesdiscordbot> SDL2 2.0.8 have metal support if it will helps somehow 20180811 15:48:38< celticminstrel> Probably not... 20180811 15:48:41<+wesdiscordbot> there is moltenvk, which is vulkan over metal, and IIRC is free since valve essentially bought it and open-sourced it. of course, that would involve using vulkan instead of opengl. 20180811 15:49:10< celticminstrel> Since we want to use GL features that SDL doesn't provide a direct interface to. 20180811 15:49:21<+wesdiscordbot> Just remembered ANGLE. They're working on OpenGL Es-on-Vulkan support. https://angleproject.org/ 20180811 15:49:38< celticminstrel> Does Apple support Vulkan though? 20180811 15:49:46< celticminstrel> Also, ES is a bit ... 20180811 15:50:04<+wesdiscordbot> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/02/vulkan-is-coming-to-macos-ios-but-no-thanks-to-apple/ 20180811 15:50:16<+wesdiscordbot> (Changed the link to HTTP, apparently HTTPS doesn't work in that site) 20180811 15:51:21<+wesdiscordbot> apple sort of does, because other people wrote a translation layer from vulkan -> metal 20180811 15:51:39<+wesdiscordbot> used for Dota 2 on MacOS, for example 20180811 15:51:41< celticminstrel> What's Vulkan like compared to OpenGL? Does in involve a similar shader language for example? 20180811 15:52:02<+wesdiscordbot> Vulkan is a very low-level API, similar to Metal. 20180811 15:52:05<+wesdiscordbot> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Dota-2-Initial-Mac-Vulkan https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-Lets-In-Updated-MVK-App 20180811 15:52:16<+wesdiscordbot> examples^ 20180811 15:52:26<+wesdiscordbot> I have heard that Vulkan requires about 10 000 lines of code before you can even draw one triangle. 20180811 15:52:29< celticminstrel> Examples of what? 20180811 15:52:46<+wesdiscordbot> vulkan on macos through molenvk 20180811 15:52:49<+wesdiscordbot> *molten 20180811 15:53:08< celticminstrel> That sounds extremely bad... 20180811 15:53:19<+wesdiscordbot> Basically 1000. 20180811 15:53:44<+wesdiscordbot> even as a non-c++ programmer though, vulkan has sounded like something that's best to not use directly. 20180811 15:54:26<+wesdiscordbot> I mean, once you write your initial backend, it's basically the same as writing OpenGL. 20180811 15:54:32< celticminstrel> :S 20180811 15:54:37<+wesdiscordbot> Just the backend has 50x more code :D 20180811 15:54:46< celticminstrel> That sounds pretty awful? 20180811 15:54:55< celticminstrel> But does that mean that it does have a similar shader language? 20180811 15:55:00<+wesdiscordbot> especially since (unless I'm mistaken) nobody here has experience with Vulkan, compared to OpenGL. 20180811 15:55:11<+wesdiscordbot> Mine's very minimal. 20180811 15:55:54-!- lilinitsy_ [~demonitsy@75-168-95-50.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 15:56:02< celticminstrel> Yeah so we need an OpenGL-over-Metal implementation, not OpenGL-over-Vulkan, right? 20180811 15:57:04<+wesdiscordbot> well, given all the different translation layers being made at the moment, in a couple years there'll probably be some way to do OpenGL -> Vulkan -> Metal 20180811 15:57:09<+wesdiscordbot> They don't seem to have a timeline for when they'll go from deprecated->obsolete 20180811 15:57:34<+wesdiscordbot> celticminstrel: No, Vulkan's shader language is completely different. 20180811 15:57:51<+wesdiscordbot> Sit's SPIR-V ( https://www.khronos.org/spir/ ) which is not intended to be written by hand. 20180811 15:57:56<+wesdiscordbot> *It's 20180811 15:58:16<+wesdiscordbot> errm 20180811 15:58:25<+wesdiscordbot> You can very, very easily compile GLSL and HLSL to spir5 20180811 15:58:34<+wesdiscordbot> works flawlessly in my experience. 20180811 15:58:35<+wesdiscordbot> Instead, the idea is that a project writes shaders in some o0ther language, then uses a compiler to transform then into SPIR-V. 20180811 15:58:41<+wesdiscordbot> *other 20180811 15:58:44< celticminstrel> I imagine OpenGL-over-Vulkan-over-Metal would be a bit inefficient though. 20180811 15:59:02< celticminstrel> Ah, so it'd be possible to use GLSL with Vulkan? 20180811 15:59:14< celticminstrel> So maybe we can manage that? I dunno. 20180811 16:00:23-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4dbbe692.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 16:01:29<+wesdiscordbot> Yes, there is a GLSL-to-SPIR-V compiler: https://www.khronos.org/opengles/sdk/tools/Reference-Compiler/ 20180811 16:03:40-!- mattsc_ [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 16:04:44<+wesdiscordbot> Would it be worth considering going from software rendering -> OpenGL hardware rendering for 1.15, then OpenGL -> Vulkan/moltenvk for 1.17? 20180811 16:05:25<+wesdiscordbot> I Think OpenGL ES on ANGLE would be the best way to go long-term. 20180811 16:06:08-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20180811 16:06:09-!- mattsc_ is now known as mattsc 20180811 16:07:29<+wesdiscordbot> It looks like that crosses opengl and some DX versions? 20180811 16:08:20<+wesdiscordbot> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANGLE_(software)#Level_of_OpenGL_ES_support_via_backing_renderers 20180811 16:09:37<+wesdiscordbot> perhaps notably, on their actual Github page, their table doesn't even mention Metal: https://github.com/google/angle#level-of-opengl-es-support-via-backing-renderers 20180811 16:13:25<+wesdiscordbot> But this black screen issue is probably not related to deprecating OpenGL support, right? (as wesnoth 1.14 doesn't use OpenGL) 20180811 16:13:37<+wesdiscordbot> referencing to issue 1) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/3451#issue-207773065 20180811 16:21:09<+wesdiscordbot> One would hope that deprecating something wouldn't break that thing. If SDL2 uses OpenGL as a backend though, it's still being used even if not by Wesnoth directly. I assume SDL2 doesn't implement its own entire graphics driver. 20180811 16:21:53<+wesdiscordbot> I know I've seen opengl mentioned in some stack traces on linux+nvidia driver, at least. 20180811 16:23:06< celticminstrel> I think SDL does not rely on OpenGL, not sure whether it uses it as a backend for anything though. 20180811 16:23:47< celticminstrel> I think it's more like it provides some platform-agnostic glue to OpenGL? 20180811 16:29:37<+wesdiscordbot> I don't think that this issue is related to OpenGL deprecation because video works. Problem is that game starts with blank screen. You can click elements (you can hear click sound) but you won't see anything until you move window. When you move window or resize it video appears 20180811 16:30:32<+wesdiscordbot> so essentially it just doesn't draw the screen when it first opens? after that, everything works normally? 20180811 16:30:43<+wesdiscordbot> yes, exactly 20180811 16:58:53-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180811 16:58:59-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 17:29:23<+wesdiscordbot> But Vulkan is better because it's new and has a fancy name and everyone is talking about it being better than OpenGL especially for multithreaded use cases and omg we MUST rewrite wesnoth from the ground up to take advantage of it before Vulkan stops being cool!!!!!!!!@one1 20180811 17:30:07<+wesdiscordbot> On a more serious note though 20180811 17:30:12<+wesdiscordbot> No one here has been advocating use of Vulkan. Please don't costruct such straw men. 20180811 17:30:28<+wesdiscordbot> I have actually seen someone do it. 20180811 17:30:48<+wesdiscordbot> We can drop support for linux and windows and move wesnoth to metal 😛 20180811 17:30:49<+wesdiscordbot> They obviously don't entirely know what they're talking about but I'm used to that by now. 20180811 17:32:21<+wesdiscordbot> On a more serious note on X11 it seems like SDL 2 manages to at least invoke GLX in some capacity when running with wesnoth. 20180811 17:33:01<+wesdiscordbot> Since some stack traces occasionally land into NVIDIA's GLX component. 20180811 17:34:19-!- louis94 [~~louis94@109.49-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 18:01:41-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4dbbe692.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 52.9.0/20180621064021]] 20180811 18:04:28< celticminstrel> Why is [store_unit] not working... :| 20180811 18:04:56< celticminstrel> I run the exact same filter from Lua and get a non-empty list, but an [inspect] after the [store_unit] doesn't show the new variable, implying there were no matches. 20180811 18:12:52-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180811 18:12:58-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 18:13:21-!- louis94 [~~louis94@109.49-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180811 18:26:02-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180811 18:26:08-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 18:40:27< celticminstrel> Y'know, [disallow_end_turn] should really take a reason= key that sets the text shown when you attempt to end your turn. 20180811 18:41:05<+wesdiscordbot> why didn't I think of that 20180811 19:34:22< celticminstrel> o.o Suddenly my Wesnoth stopped rendering properly. It was all black except for a thin line in the middle (which was rendered correctly). 20180811 19:34:43< celticminstrel> Is there a bug filed for this? I think I might've seen someone post a screenshot of it before. 20180811 19:37:02< celticminstrel> Doesn't appear to be reproduceable... 20180811 19:39:20-!- celmin [~celticmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 19:41:26< celticminstrel> By which I mean I tried loading the save and playing through again and it didn't happen again. 20180811 19:59:21-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180811 20:04:19< celmin> BTW mattsc you should try to add labels when you create an issue. 20180811 20:05:20< mattsc> celmin: Right. And I usually do, I just forgot last night. Thanks. 20180811 20:05:26< celmin> Ah okay. 20180811 20:13:09< mattsc> celmin: What’s your current take on removing FAI. Not WFL, just FAI. @Vultraz asked about it again (and I think it’s something you would have to do, rather than I, so that’s another reason why it is not on my list). 20180811 20:14:58<+wesdiscordbot> Best unit in Wesnoth 😄 20180811 20:14:59<+wesdiscordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/477932963183460353/unknown.png 20180811 20:17:54-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 20:18:31-!- louis94 [~~louis94@109.49-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 20:20:13< mattsc> Nice. Quite the monster. 20180811 20:26:54<+wesdiscordbot> @hrubymar10 Battery status hiding implemented: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/3441/commits/16a44b25f1bf3f00efdc8e55cf8c107ede8fdca3 20180811 20:27:15<+wesdiscordbot> Just say no to cheats, kids. 20180811 20:32:40<+wesdiscordbot> I see, thank you @jyrkive 😃 There was someone (can't remember who) who seems didn't like this idea. Can we also option into preferences? Or will we force users with battery to see battery status? 20180811 20:33:30<+wesdiscordbot> It's a matter of opinion, obviously. 20180811 20:33:42<+wesdiscordbot> Personally I'm in favor of having as many options as possible. 20180811 20:33:51<+wesdiscordbot> Meanwhile Vultraz has the opposite opinion. 20180811 20:36:58<+wesdiscordbot> OAB is old wesnoth principle 20180811 20:37:50<+wesdiscordbot> Though don't mind if there's occasional silly sounding option 20180811 20:38:03<+wesdiscordbot> as long as there is someone to assign the bug to if it breaks 20180811 20:38:08<+wesdiscordbot> Why do we need an option? 20180811 20:39:00<+wesdiscordbot> > There was someone (can't remember who) who seems didn't like this idea. 20180811 20:41:23<+wesdiscordbot> Not a convincing argument. 20180811 20:42:07<+wesdiscordbot> battery indicator for laptop? 20180811 20:42:24<+wesdiscordbot> I think they should have one in their DE 20180811 20:42:40<+wesdiscordbot> so it's useful only if running fullscreen 20180811 20:43:18<+wesdiscordbot> So you think we should add a feature that almost everyone for whom it's relevant will miss because it's stashed away in some dark corner of Preferences? 20180811 20:43:40<+wesdiscordbot> well enabled by default 😄 20180811 20:43:55<+wesdiscordbot> Can't the game do the right thing on its own instead and someone add the ability for theme elements to be shown or hidden depending on whether the game is fullscreened or not? 20180811 20:44:05<+wesdiscordbot> What's OAB? Google's giving me overactive bladder. 20180811 20:44:11<+wesdiscordbot> Options Are Bad. 20180811 20:44:11<+wesdiscordbot> perhaps it should be enabled/disabled based on whether wesnoth is fullscreen 20180811 20:44:24<+wesdiscordbot> It's an old Wesnothism that people like to cite out of context just like NRIW. 20180811 20:44:34<+wesdiscordbot> Most people doing it do not understand either thing or the historical context behind them. 20180811 20:44:35<+wesdiscordbot> NRIW is ? 20180811 20:44:44<+wesdiscordbot> No Religion In Wesnoth. 20180811 20:45:06<+wesdiscordbot> Well, UTBS has religion. 20180811 20:45:09<+wesdiscordbot> Yes loonycyborg that's more or less what I said. 20180811 20:45:25<+wesdiscordbot> Also yes, that's exactly my point. 20180811 20:45:36<+wesdiscordbot> People quoting NRIW do not really understand what it actually means. 20180811 20:45:37<+wesdiscordbot> still sometimes people might want to toggle it for whatever reason 20180811 20:45:48<+wesdiscordbot> maybe they have really shitty DE without indicator 😛 20180811 20:46:12<+wesdiscordbot> "hurrrrr utbs shouldnt be in mainline because it has religion devs have double standard corrupt devs omfg" 20180811 20:47:03<+wesdiscordbot> Hey in battery_info.cpp there's this: double get_battery_percentage() { #if defined(_WIN32) return windows_battery_info::get_battery_percentage(); #elif defined(__APPLE__) return desktop::battery_info::apple::get_battery_percentage(); #else return -1; #endif } 20180811 20:47:10<+wesdiscordbot> Am I reading wrong, or will this not work for linux? 20180811 20:47:18<+wesdiscordbot> Just a quick scan I couldn't find anything. 20180811 20:47:40<+wesdiscordbot> Linux is not implemented yet 20180811 20:47:55<+wesdiscordbot> see TODO in it's PR https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/3441 20180811 20:47:55<+wesdiscordbot> okcool, just wanted to check 20180811 20:48:11<+wesdiscordbot> I'm not even sure there's a standard API to check this on Linux. 20180811 20:48:20<+wesdiscordbot> I was just going to ask 20180811 20:48:22<+wesdiscordbot> Without using upower or messing around with sysfs. 20180811 20:48:25<+wesdiscordbot> It works on windows, macOS and iOS so far 20180811 20:48:48<+wesdiscordbot> Probably a standard way to get it for most fedora/debian/suse systems though 20180811 20:48:50<+wesdiscordbot> (The latter being a recipe for unmaintainability because sysfs information tends to change on occasion.) 20180811 20:50:13<+wesdiscordbot> maybe there's a freedesktop api for that 20180811 20:50:30<+wesdiscordbot> perhaps part of logind or something 😛 20180811 20:52:53<+wesdiscordbot> Alright, so what is the context for OAB and NRIW? 20180811 20:54:57<+wesdiscordbot> I do not know the context for OAB (it might be gameplay-impacting options) so I generally assess things in terms of more generic design principles before factoring in Wesnoth. 20180811 20:56:59<+wesdiscordbot> As for NRIW, the gist of it is mainline must not promote any real life religions. Referencing them is okay (which is kind of what UtBS does, although it's subtle enough that it probably goes above a lot of people's heads). 20180811 20:57:38<+wesdiscordbot> A lot of people have taken this out of context as if the policy were that Wesnoth must not have any fictional religions in it. 20180811 20:58:12<+wesdiscordbot> The overly vague Lords of Light/Darkness system that is not explained anywhere in mainline but gets named-dropped on occasion came out of that debacle somehow. 20180811 20:59:11<+wesdiscordbot> https://upower.freedesktop.org/docs/Device.html maybe this dbus api should be used 20180811 20:59:45<+wesdiscordbot> Yeah I mentioned upower before. 20180811 21:00:18<+wesdiscordbot> I think it's become a de facto standard of sorts, at least on Debian-based distributions. No idea about others. 20180811 21:01:28-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4dbbe692.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 21:01:47< gfgtdf> hmm i now often get stuck at 'getting game data' in the loadinscreen when i try to observe a game. 20180811 21:02:34<+wesdiscordbot> Stuck as in takes a long time to continue, or it just hangs up there forever? 20180811 21:03:21< gfgtdf> i think it'd take forever although i admit that i have not been that patient 20180811 21:04:22< gfgtdf> let me try to wait longer 20180811 21:05:40<+wesdiscordbot> Or attach a debugger and see what it's doing. 20180811 21:05:53< gfgtdf> ok i'm waiting for two minutes now and no progress so i assume it is stuck forever 20180811 21:06:02< gfgtdf> i' 20180811 21:06:17< gfgtdf> ll try with log debug network first to see whetehr it receives some of the data 20180811 21:06:25<+wesdiscordbot> If it's waiting for network data and it's been longer than 2 minutes odds are it lost connection somehow. 20180811 21:06:46<+wesdiscordbot> And since our networking framework is sooo greeaaat the client often just never finds out. 20180811 21:07:41<+wesdiscordbot> Incidentally, if you are using master, I updated and restarted the server for that in the morning as well. 20180811 21:08:06< gfgtdf> no this is the official 1.14 server with my 1.14.4+de client 20180811 21:08:10<+wesdiscordbot> So I hope there are no regressions there. The redirection code has been working just fine at least. 20180811 21:08:20< gfgtdf> it seems to happen when i join any of the isars cross games. 20180811 21:08:41< gfgtdf> observe i mean 20180811 21:09:16< gfgtdf> lets try with the official 1.14.4 release 20180811 21:09:56< gfgtdf> hmm same thing 20180811 21:10:27< celmin> mattsc: My take on removing FAI is roughly amounts to "it still works, so there's really no reason to" coupled with "you can't do unit_formulas as easily in Lua, so we should keep it around at least for that". 20180811 21:10:40< gfgtdf> is eomone here currently on the 1.14.4 server that coudl test? just try to observe the first issar cross game 20180811 21:10:53< gfgtdf> someone* 20180811 21:10:56< celmin> And my take on having an option to show the battery percent is "good idea, but can we hide the option if you don't have a battery?'. 20180811 21:11:20<+wesdiscordbot> gfgtdf: What's its title? 20180811 21:11:28< gfgtdf> 'Isar' 20180811 21:11:37< gfgtdf> the third game 20180811 21:11:40< gfgtdf> of all 20180811 21:11:40<+wesdiscordbot> Yeaaahhhh it's getting stuck for me too. 20180811 21:12:19< gfgtdf> but it seems to happen with all 'isars corss' games actually 20180811 21:13:48< celmin> …whoops, I left an extra "is" in there. 20180811 21:14:49< celmin> I don't suppose shadowm has any clues as to the cause of the units.wesnoth.org runaway situation yesterday? Even just knowing which add-on caused it would probably help? 20180811 21:14:57<+wesdiscordbot> gfgtdf: https://pastebin.com/usW6tSaN 20180811 21:15:08<+wesdiscordbot> No celmin, I'd need to run wmlunits by hand. 20180811 21:15:13< celmin> I see. 20180811 21:15:25<+wesdiscordbot> I don't have time for messing with wmlunits. I'd rather pray that elias shows up instead. 20180811 21:15:41< celmin> He has access to that server too, right? 20180811 21:15:48-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-198-219-163.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 21:15:49< travis-ci> gfgtdf/wesnoth#1210 (1.14 - 8ec61e6 : gfgtdf): The build was broken. 20180811 21:15:49< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth/builds/414958610 20180811 21:15:49-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-198-219-163.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180811 21:15:54< celmin> Uh-oh. 20180811 21:15:58<+wesdiscordbot> He set it up. 20180811 21:16:08< celmin> 'kay, I'll wait for him then I guess. 20180811 21:16:24<+wesdiscordbot> He also maintains the thing. 20180811 21:16:51< celmin> I wonder if it's still forbiddingly difficult to run it locally on my add-on. 20180811 21:17:10<+wesdiscordbot> It's a pain in the bum. 20180811 21:17:23<+wesdiscordbot> It was a nightmare to deal with when working on the website redesign. 20180811 21:17:50<+wesdiscordbot> gfgtdf: It's not just the Isar's games. 20180811 21:18:04<+wesdiscordbot> "Survival, hard one. Timer on." causes the same issue and log output on the server. 20180811 21:18:41< celmin> BTW, is 1.14.5 scheduled? The IRC topic still lists the 1.14.4 schedule date which is kinda silly. 20180811 21:18:42< gfgtdf> hmm ok in the worse case we can just revert the 'translatable strings in simplewml' commits. 20180811 21:18:51<+wesdiscordbot> It seems to me like the thing about attributes not being in order per simple_wml's expectations is somehow at fault. 20180811 21:19:08<+wesdiscordbot> Oh yeah nobody cares about the IRC topic anymore cleraly. 20180811 21:19:12< celmin> Clearly. 20180811 21:19:28<+wesdiscordbot> You can change it to whatever because we don't have a schedule yet I don't think. 20180811 21:19:28< celmin> But if no-one cares we should at least remove any transient info from it. 20180811 21:19:36<+wesdiscordbot> (You can, right?) 20180811 21:19:47< celmin> I don't think so? 20180811 21:20:00< celmin> Maybe mattsc can? 20180811 21:20:02< celmin> I dunno. 20180811 21:20:04<@shadowm> You clearly can. 20180811 21:20:10<@shadowm> Channel mode +t is not set. 20180811 21:20:14< celmin> Ohhh. 20180811 21:20:18<@shadowm> And also I don't see anything about schedules. 20180811 21:20:24<@shadowm> Ohhh it's at the end. 20180811 21:20:32-!- shadowm changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Wesnoth Developers Channel | >>> Want to help? Go here: https://r.wesnoth.org/t42911 (and thanks!) <<< | Discord Server: https://discord.gg/battleforwesnoth | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org 20180811 21:20:38<@shadowm> There. 20180811 21:20:47< celmin> I didn't even notice +t was unset. 20180811 21:20:57< celmin> Thanks though. 20180811 21:20:59< gfgtdf> is there any case whre 'user_team' is a valid attribute or is it sfe to assume its a 'user_team_name' attribute that is somehow handled incorrectly ? 20180811 21:21:00 * shadowm checks to see if the spambots are still at it. 20180811 21:21:28< celmin> gfgtdf: I don't think that's a valid attribute in [side], no. 20180811 21:21:57< gfgtdf> yes but anywhere else ? 20180811 21:22:01<+wesdiscordbot> The engine doesn't seem to refer to it. 20180811 21:23:01<@shadowm> Yep, they're still spamming. 20180811 21:23:24< celmin> Wow they're persistent huh. 20180811 21:23:46<+wesdiscordbot> They've been at this for at least 14 days so yeah. 20180811 21:23:53< celmin> I'm a little surprised they never showed up in the boe channel, maybe because it only has 5 members> 20180811 21:23:54< celmin> ^? 20180811 21:25:41<+wesdiscordbot> It's possible, yes. My alternate theory was that they scraped /list or ALIS, but #wesnoth-umc-dev is not +s and it hasn't been hit but it's also really small. 20180811 21:33:47< mattsc> Huh, I did not know that I can change the channel topic either. 20180811 21:46:14-!- irker955 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 21:46:14< irker955> wesnoth: Martin Hrubý (hrubymar10) wesnoth:Fix_Wesnoth_for_Xcode_10 ede015e56fe4 / source_lists/libwesnoth: Fix scons image.cpp -> picture.cpp https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ede015e56fe451f44a91c384de67a81cfb6e41de 20180811 21:47:28< celmin> mattsc: You saw my take right? 20180811 21:48:22< mattsc> celmin: I did. I was trying to come up with a semi-meaningful reply but all it amounts to is: I don’t really have a preference one way or the other. 20180811 21:49:38< celmin> I'm still seriously considering reimplementing FAI in Lua. 20180811 21:50:29< celmin> Not because I think it's a good idea exactly, but because it'd force me to finish the WFL-Lua bridging stuff and also potentially lead to adding some things to Lua AI that FAI already has that were never added. 20180811 21:52:50< mattsc> Okay. Well, as I have said before, I don’t really miss anything from FAI in Lua AI. There’s stuff in the default AI that I’d like added first. 20180811 21:53:20< mattsc> Such as the [exclude_units] tag from yesterday’s list. 20180811 21:53:35< celmin> Mmhm. 20180811 21:53:52< celmin> I figure there isn't much missing in Lua AI, yeah. 20180811 21:54:06< celmin> I think most of the specialized FAI functions could be written in Lua? 20180811 21:54:33< mattsc> Probably … Like what for example? 20180811 21:54:44< celmin> But there might be a couple minor things missing that would be needed to implement them in Lua… I'd have to look at the functions again to get an idea. 20180811 21:55:14< mattsc> Most likely I actually have written some of them, but certainly not all of them. 20180811 22:04:34-!- wesdiscordbot [~wesdiscor@wesnoth/bot/discord-bridge] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180811 22:04:49-!- wesdiscordbot [~wesdiscor@wesnoth/bot/discord-bridge] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 22:04:52-!- mode/#wesnoth-dev [+v wesdiscordbot] by ChanServ 20180811 22:06:10< irker955> wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee 20180811 22:06:36<@shadowm> meep 20180811 22:06:51< irker955> weeeeeeewoooooooooweeeeeeeeeewooooooooo 20180811 22:07:13< oldlaptop> ?! 20180811 22:07:22< irker955> hi 20180811 22:07:33< irker955> im back from the ashes 20180811 22:07:42< irker955> like a bootiful fantasy bhird 20180811 22:07:59< loonycyborg> bots started a rebellion 20180811 22:08:06< celmin> XD 20180811 22:08:10< loonycyborg> we should welcome our new robotic overlords 20180811 22:08:24< irker955> i also absorbed another bot into my system imagine that im like some kind of borg 20180811 22:09:24< irker955> anyway lets keep it a secret for now just go back to work ;) ♥ 20180811 22:15:41< celmin> ... 20180811 22:29:24-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-221-82-230.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 22:29:25< gfgtdf> ok it seems like the 'stuck at loadinscreen when observing' bug also sometimes effects people that try to join games 20180811 22:29:25< travis-ci> gfgtdf/wesnoth#1211 (1.14 - a9b1618 : gfgtdf): The build was fixed. 20180811 22:29:25< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth/builds/414966294 20180811 22:29:25-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-221-82-230.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180811 22:43:24-!- valdar [~atarocch@31.159.157.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180811 22:44:33< gfgtdf> shadowm: can you tell me at which commit exactly the server is buid ? 20180811 22:44:44< gfgtdf> @Shadowm ^ 20180811 22:45:03<+wesdiscordbot> /home/wesnoth/builds/wesnothd-1.14-git-1.14.4-111-g63cc1042f7/bin/wesnothd-1.14 20180811 22:46:58<+wesdiscordbot> Also, the game is perfectly able to sit on that screen for one hour. 20180811 22:47:10<+wesdiscordbot> That's terrible design. 20180811 22:47:35< gfgtdf> ok i don't think i have currently time to investigate that so i'm reverting the fixtstringinsimplewml commit for now. 20180811 22:47:41<+wesdiscordbot> At some point whatever orchestrates this stuff should be able to decide "oh well, the server is never going to talk to us again, we should probably just pack our things and leave". 20180811 22:48:36<+wesdiscordbot> According to the server logs I joined the game which I never saw. 20180811 22:48:39<+wesdiscordbot> And the host kicked me. 20180811 22:48:51< irker955> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:1.14 2a8ac2e6afea / src/gui/dialogs/multiplayer/ (mp_join_game.cpp mp_join_game.hpp): fix 'start game' locked when other players abort flg dialog #3452 https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/2a8ac2e6afeae0f050ea28e36eaf0c370ba1970e 20180811 22:48:53< irker955> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:1.14 2f21f1aec340 / src/actions/ (undo.cpp undo.hpp): boost::ptr_vector -> std::vector https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/2f21f1aec340ea081001e7745f9b16e6ff643a3e 20180811 22:48:55< irker955> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:1.14 f0ffb458f2ee / src/actions/ (undo.cpp undo.hpp): fix game freezes on droiding when using dsu #3453 https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f0ffb458f2ee516b5c73bb44935df459aa02dfe7 20180811 22:48:57< irker955> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:1.14 717a43c49004 / src/server/ (simple_wml.cpp simple_wml.hpp): Revert "preserve traslatable strings in simple_wml." https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/717a43c49004aa0185c2f2fde7282af992e61356 20180811 22:49:05<+wesdiscordbot> And also I'm still connected (or at least I haven't disconnected according to the server logs). 20180811 22:49:30<+wesdiscordbot> But really the client should be able to decide to return to the lobby or something if the server decides to give it the silent treatment. 20180811 22:49:59<+wesdiscordbot> The fact that these days we can actually close it without using SIGTERM is only marginally helpful. 20180811 22:50:11<+wesdiscordbot> So should I rebuild and restart the server again? 20180811 22:50:12-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180811 22:50:51< gfgtdf> hmm wait at least for the travis job i didnt test that revert commit actually. 20180811 22:50:52<+wesdiscordbot> brb checking why the host kicked me from the game. So rude. 20180811 22:51:02<+wesdiscordbot> ... Okay. 20180811 22:51:22<+wesdiscordbot> maybe client should send pings if there was no communication from server for some time 20180811 22:51:31< celmin> Yes, yes it should. 20180811 22:51:33<+wesdiscordbot> not sure if it's good idea to enable keepalive for it 20180811 22:51:40< celmin> Why the heck doesn't it do something so basic? 20180811 22:52:03<+wesdiscordbot> There isn't a replay. 20180811 22:52:21<+wesdiscordbot> @loonycyborg If you read again you'll see the server hasn't disconnected me. 20180811 22:52:24<+wesdiscordbot> if it will use keepalive it should have smaller timeouts than the defaults 20180811 22:52:24< celmin> Ping every 30 seconds or something, and if a ping isn't responded to within 30 seconds or something, assume the connection is lost. 20180811 22:52:35< gfgtdf> hmm yes it'd be nice if the game woudl automaticialyl notice if it got stuch in such cases. 20180811 22:52:38<+wesdiscordbot> It's just that we aren't talking to each other. 20180811 22:52:40< celmin> 30 seconds is just an example, you could use whatever timeout you want. 20180811 22:53:24<+wesdiscordbot> My client is just waiting for an answer that the server couldn't give me because of an internal server error. 20180811 22:53:30< celmin> shadowm I don't suppose you're able to watch the network traffic somehow 20180811 22:53:50<+wesdiscordbot> 20180811 17:17:37 debug network: In wesnothd_connection::send_data::lambda 20180811 17:17:37 debug network: Written 57 bytes. 20180811 22:54:03<+wesdiscordbot> This is the last thing I heard from the client when the loading screen appeared. 20180811 22:54:08<+wesdiscordbot> It's currently 18:54. 20180811 22:55:09< gfgtdf> hmm so it stopped sending you any messages? I'd expect that it is expected to send you the ingame data (replays) or the lobby data (gamelist_diff) even if sendign that oen package fails. 20180811 22:55:29< gfgtdf> maybe we shodul just make the server disconnect you in such a case. 20180811 22:55:35<+wesdiscordbot> I don't know how the server protocol works but it appears it doesn't. 20180811 22:57:02<+wesdiscordbot> tcp 0 0 192.168.1.10:14999 xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:45910 ESTABLISHED 1906/bin/wesnothd-1 20180811 22:57:14<+wesdiscordbot> tcp 0 0 192.168.1.100:54772 wesnoth-next:14999 ESTABLISHED 18566/./wesnoth-deb 20180811 22:57:38<+wesdiscordbot> Yeah we've still got a socket pair open purportedly. 20180811 22:58:18<+wesdiscordbot> Also, it appears that affected games do not get replays written? 20180811 22:58:24<+wesdiscordbot> Because I couldn't find the replay. 20180811 22:59:06<+wesdiscordbot> On the server, that is. And according to the logs the game did finish a while ago. 20180811 22:59:28< celmin> Not having replays saved is kinda bad huh. 20180811 22:59:33< gfgtdf> hmm quite possible you errrolog for eariler suggested that soemthing of the `output_` of the wml document is wrong. 20180811 22:59:44<+wesdiscordbot> Also @loonycyborg what's with the "bad file descriptor" spam in parts of the logs? 20180811 23:00:24<+wesdiscordbot> This has been going on for a while and it's not because of recent changes but I just remembered to ask about it. 20180811 23:00:48< celmin> Random thought - I noticed Windows Wesnoth had the history support, yay! Meaning it ships with libhistory now? 20180811 23:01:39<+wesdiscordbot> Yep, the server is asking for confirmation before kicking myself now that I'm relogging. 20180811 23:02:08<+wesdiscordbot> Meaning that the client also fails to disconnect (or the server fails to notice?) if I just close the window. 20180811 23:03:29< gfgtdf> shadowm: closin the window durign the loadscreen just calls exit()/quick_exit(), i'd assume that the operatign system woudl close all connected when you close an application. 20180811 23:03:50<+wesdiscordbot> @shadowm I saw that before but not sure about that myself 20180811 23:03:53< celmin> BTW IMO we really need a system to disable individual addons so that I can track down where these annoying errors are coming from. 20180811 23:03:58<+wesdiscordbot> I think that's not necessarily the case gfgtdf. 20180811 23:04:14< celmin> Things like "helper.set_wml_metatable is deprecated" and some other similar ones. 20180811 23:05:44< gfgtdf> hmm 20180811 23:05:59<+wesdiscordbot> While modern operating systems do their best to bind resource lifetimes to the processes that created them, I think sockets don't quite work that way. 20180811 23:07:01<+wesdiscordbot> After all people do tell you to write your programs to clean after themselves correctly/not use SIGKILL except as a last resort. 20180811 23:07:06< celmin> Another random thought - the load game dialog's map preview is spoilery for scenarios with shroud. 20180811 23:07:13<+wesdiscordbot> (Latter can be especially bad with IPC resources.) 20180811 23:07:44<+wesdiscordbot> The Load dialog has always disabled previews for maps without shroud. Is that no longer the case? 20180811 23:07:57< celmin> I guess not? 20180811 23:08:04<+wesdiscordbot> Do you know? 20180811 23:08:13< celmin> I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a preview on a shrouded map. 20180811 23:08:27< celmin> I assume you mean for maps with shroud. 20180811 23:08:34<+wesdiscordbot> With, yes. 20180811 23:08:44<+wesdiscordbot> I don't see previews for HttT The Lost General, which has shroud on. 20180811 23:09:03< celmin> Hmm. 20180811 23:09:08< celmin> Well, I'll check again later. 20180811 23:09:26-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-146-214-36.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180811 23:09:27< travis-ci> gfgtdf/wesnoth#1212 (1.14 - 1bc5bda : gfgtdf): The build has errored. 20180811 23:09:27< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth/builds/414974053 20180811 23:09:27-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-146-214-36.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180811 23:10:28<+wesdiscordbot> Yay 20180811 23:10:45<+wesdiscordbot> It's just one build timing out during tests. 20180811 23:11:06<+wesdiscordbot> Oh nvm that isn't even the latest commit. 20180811 23:13:40< gfgtdf> shadowm: just googling it says that the os does close sockets. 20180811 23:14:07<+wesdiscordbot> IRC clients often just time out for me instead of going "Remote host closed the connection" though. 20180811 23:14:33< celmin> I think Windows doesn't close sockets though. 20180811 23:14:37<+wesdiscordbot> But if you prefer to blame wesnothd, that works for me too. 😉 20180811 23:16:03< gfgtdf> hmm i also don't know what timeout settigns the server has, i think we talked about it at some point already though. 20180811 23:16:44< loonycyborg> 10 minutes before it starts to send keepalives 20180811 23:16:56< celmin> o.o 20180811 23:17:53< loonycyborg> or maybe 2 hours 20180811 23:18:03< celmin> ... 20180811 23:18:07< loonycyborg> I only remember it was really long 20180811 23:18:21< loonycyborg> just to ensure that disconnected clients will get cleaned up 20180811 23:18:56< loonycyborg> pinging can be made more aggressive but at cost of increased bandwidth use 20180811 23:19:49<+wesdiscordbot> How much exactly? 20180811 23:19:59<+wesdiscordbot> Compared to regular activity. 20180811 23:20:12< celmin> Can't you just ping only if there's no other activity? 20180811 23:20:20< celmin> That wouldn't increase bandwidth use, would it? 20180811 23:21:12< celmin> Although… is it possible that the issue here is a little different? The client is waiting for something specific, but the server has forgotten what they're waiting for? 20180811 23:22:02< celmin> If that's what it is, pinging wouldn't help - the server would respond immediately but still wouldn't send the client what they actually need. 20180811 23:24:06< loonycyborg> I think client can ping if not sees any activity 20180811 23:24:17< loonycyborg> and server can use 2 hour keepalive 20180811 23:24:30-!- Punsaker is now known as Polsaker 20180811 23:24:57< loonycyborg> hmm however people who dc will remain in lobby 20180811 23:25:23< loonycyborg> and if someone pms them I'm not even sure server will emit error properly 20180811 23:25:28< loonycyborg> need to check this out yet 20180811 23:26:25< celmin> My point was that, in addition to pinging, you might need to be able to make the client resend things that the server has somehow forgotten about. 20180811 23:27:13<+wesdiscordbot> It's simpler to just give up on the server. 20180811 23:27:31<+wesdiscordbot> Not all things are safe to resend or expect a response. 20180811 23:27:44< loonycyborg> yep 20180811 23:27:48< loonycyborg> reconnect is safer 20180811 23:28:02< celmin> Sure, but what do you do if the server does respond to your ping yet continues not to send whatever you were waiting for? 20180811 23:28:39< celmin> Give up after some maximum number of pings? 20180811 23:29:13< loonycyborg> this can't happen if pings come from main handlers 20180811 23:29:25< celmin> Or would a response to the ping indicate that it has forgotten and thus you should give up? But if that's the case, is there even a point to having a ping? 20180811 23:29:27<+wesdiscordbot> Like the situation we were talking about earlier, just giv eup. 20180811 23:29:31<+wesdiscordbot> The server is probably on drugs. 20180811 23:29:36< celmin> XD 20180811 23:29:59< loonycyborg> only point of having a ping is to detect disconnect 20180811 23:30:02<+wesdiscordbot> Part of designing a client-server protocol is that both must have certain expectations about each other and be able to tell when either is misbehaving. 20180811 23:30:16<+wesdiscordbot> e.g. a misbehaving server should not cause a client to self-DoS. 20180811 23:30:41<+wesdiscordbot> (Unless it's a file server, then all bets are off.) 20180811 23:30:47< loonycyborg> generally the safest way is to reset if you get invalid input 20180811 23:30:56< celmin> XD 20180811 23:31:14< loonycyborg> "recovering" from erroneous input is even harder task than designing protocol in the first place 20180811 23:31:35< loonycyborg> You will just end up rediscovering GIGO principle 20180811 23:34:01<+wesdiscordbot> celmin: To answer your question in #2819, the author of the commits just cited the issue number without saying "fixed" or "closed". 20180811 23:34:33<+wesdiscordbot> Whoever they are need to reawd this: https://help.github.com/articles/closing-issues-using-keywords/ 20180811 23:36:44-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] --- Log closed Sun Aug 12 00:00:59 2018