--- Log opened Thu Aug 30 00:00:05 2018 20180830 00:03:39-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180830 00:11:06<+wesdiscordbot> Youh ave a game... that allows bridge connections via IRC. 20180830 00:12:23< celticminstrel> ??? 20180830 00:13:35< specing> lobby master server, not game 20180830 00:13:56-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180830 00:14:01< specing> irc.springrts.com 20180830 00:14:41<+wesdiscordbot> That's..... unorthodox. 20180830 00:19:51< irker211> wesnoth/wesnoth:master mattsc 97d73fe674 Lua AIs: remove inclusions of unused lib AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180830 00:23:13-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-197-183-201.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180830 00:23:14< travis-ci> gfgtdf/wesnoth#1242 (1.14 - 7584be0 : gfgtdf): The build is still failing. 20180830 00:23:14< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth/builds/422329130 20180830 00:23:14-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-197-183-201.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180830 01:02:45< specing> Vultraz it becomes less unusual when you consider that the lobby protocol looks very much like IRC 20180830 01:03:27-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4dbb9e8e.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180830 01:30:28-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-83-113-50.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180830 01:30:29< travis-ci> gfgtdf/wesnoth#1244 (1.14 - 38b79b8 : gfgtdf): The build is still failing. 20180830 01:30:29< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth/builds/422342232 20180830 01:30:29-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-83-113-50.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180830 01:34:20< irker211> wesnoth/wesnoth:master mattsc 345dfbca5a Lua AIs: remove inclusions of unused lib AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180830 01:51:47<+wesdiscordbot> The whole idea of designing around IRC in 2018 is weird to me. 20180830 02:07:34<+wesdiscordbot> Why not? It's simple chat without web previews, webhooks and such, but needs a strong moderation features, openness and extensibility. 20180830 02:14:26<+wesdiscordbot> Very concise comment in "Apps like Discord are the new IRC": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12673940 20180830 02:18:53<+wesdiscordbot> You're trying to persuade a tree to bark. 20180830 02:19:42<+wesdiscordbot> I understand Vultraz's generation. A sizable number of people are only interested in short term benefits. 20180830 02:19:59<+wesdiscordbot> It's easier to live the moment than to prepare for the future. 20180830 02:20:31<+wesdiscordbot> Trying to convince that kind of people to use IRC because of reason A or reason B is a fool's errand. 20180830 02:20:50<+wesdiscordbot> Jut expressing the idea that there ARE different reasons for the choice. 20180830 02:21:30<+wesdiscordbot> withdraws from discussions that discuss personalities. 20180830 02:28:33-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180830 02:42:04-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180830 02:42:10-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180830 03:38:21< celticminstrel> It's impossible for Discord to be "the new IRC". 20180830 03:38:49< celticminstrel> And that ycombinator post hits the nail right on the head. 20180830 03:39:14< celticminstrel> Skype used to be good. Now it's trash. 20180830 03:39:23<+wesdiscordbot> It's not? 20180830 03:39:25< celticminstrel> The chances of the same thing happening to Discord is quite high. 20180830 03:39:40<+wesdiscordbot> I have no idea where you get the idea that Skype is trash is. 20180830 03:39:52< celticminstrel> Okay, "trash" might be a slight exaggeration, but it's worse than it was. 20180830 03:40:02<+wesdiscordbot> I think it's way better than it once was. 20180830 03:40:04< celticminstrel> Also, it pulled up the rug on me. 20180830 03:40:12<+wesdiscordbot> How so? 20180830 03:40:12< celticminstrel> To quote that ycombinator post. 20180830 03:40:21< celticminstrel> How so? I can't use it anymore. 20180830 03:40:27<+wesdiscordbot> ...why? 20180830 03:40:31< celticminstrel> If that's not "pulling up the rug", what is? 20180830 03:40:38< celticminstrel> Because I'm stuck on old hardware? 20180830 03:41:03<+wesdiscordbot> Well that not Microsoft's problem. 20180830 03:41:05< celticminstrel> "They don't suddenly up the system requirements or discontinue support for old clients." 20180830 03:41:15< celticminstrel> That's what Microsoft did, thus it's their problem indeed. 20180830 03:41:50<+wesdiscordbot> Skype has always been a badly-coordinated patchworks of clients. 20180830 03:41:54< celticminstrel> Also they turned it into adware. 20180830 03:42:00< celticminstrel> At least the Windows client. 20180830 03:42:09<+wesdiscordbot> Literally have never seen an ad on Skype. 20180830 03:42:14< celticminstrel> Strangely, speaking of the Windows client... it seems I can't even use it on Windows 10 anymore? 20180830 03:42:35<+wesdiscordbot> Hopefully you're not still trying to use the legacy desktop app. 20180830 03:42:57< celticminstrel> The very fact that "legacy desktop app" is a thing is the problem. 20180830 03:43:11< celticminstrel> If it were like IRC, the "legacy desktop app" would continue to work indefinitely. 20180830 03:43:32< celticminstrel> (I don't now if I'm using the legacy desktop app. I have no idea what the alternative is either.) 20180830 03:43:48<+wesdiscordbot> Use the app bundled with Win 10 in the latest patches. 20180830 03:43:48<+wesdiscordbot> 😐 20180830 03:44:27<+wesdiscordbot> Seriously, you can't use legacy versions of a program and then complain they don't work. 20180830 03:44:47<+wesdiscordbot> The new version is a hundred times more lightweight than the legacy app 20180830 03:44:51<+wesdiscordbot> No reason not to use it 20180830 03:44:58<+wesdiscordbot> No ads, instant startup. 20180830 03:45:19<+wesdiscordbot> IIRC you need to register to the windows store to use the app 20180830 03:45:49<+wesdiscordbot> you do? 20180830 03:46:18< celticminstrel> Vultraz, I am using a legacy IRC client here. It works perfectly. 20180830 03:46:35< celticminstrel> It will never, ever stop working. 20180830 03:46:41< celticminstrel> So your argument holds no water. 20180830 03:46:47<+wesdiscordbot> Of course not, because IRC will never, ever evolve. 20180830 03:46:50< celticminstrel> And recently even the Skype iPhone app seems to no longer work. 20180830 03:46:56< celticminstrel> IRC has evolved quite a bit actually. 20180830 03:47:05< celticminstrel> But it's still IRC. 20180830 03:47:10<+wesdiscordbot> It's a protocol, not a program. 20180830 03:47:18< celticminstrel> Whereas Skype's evolution seems to involve turning it into something completely different. 20180830 03:47:44< celticminstrel> Also, needing to register is a deal-breaker FTR. 20180830 03:48:03<+wesdiscordbot> Oh for christ's sake. It's your microsoft account! 20180830 03:48:10<+wesdiscordbot> I know you have one. 20180830 03:48:15< celticminstrel> Sure, if that's all it is, that's fine. 20180830 03:48:22< celticminstrel> But that wasn't what it sounded like sevu said. 20180830 03:49:07<+wesdiscordbot> You log into the windows 10 with your microsoft account. Which means you're logged into the store with your microsoft account. Which means you're logged into skype with your microsoft account. 20180830 03:49:08< celticminstrel> Anyway, this is why Discord cannot ever be the new IRC. 20180830 03:49:25< celticminstrel> Because it can pull up the rug on you at any moment. 20180830 03:49:31< celticminstrel> Maybe it won't. 20180830 03:49:33< celticminstrel> But it can. 20180830 03:49:43<+wesdiscordbot> True, I suppose. 20180830 03:49:48<+wesdiscordbot> It's a program, not a protocol. 20180830 03:50:25<+wesdiscordbot> I don't have a Microsoft account… 20180830 03:50:33<+wesdiscordbot> o-o 20180830 03:50:47<+wesdiscordbot> I have a local Admin account. 20180830 03:50:53<+wesdiscordbot> oh my. 20180830 03:51:40<+wesdiscordbot> I don't know why Microsoft expects me to use an Microsoft account … 20180830 03:52:12<+wesdiscordbot> Anyway, celmin, stop bashing Skype when you're the one deciding not to use the update, improved versions of it. 20180830 03:53:28<+wesdiscordbot> @sevu setting sync, for one. And because stuff like store apps are then tied to an account beyond just your laptop 20180830 03:53:40<+wesdiscordbot> @sevu Because they want to sell your data to advertisers. 20180830 03:53:45<+wesdiscordbot> It's as simple as that. 20180830 03:53:57<+wesdiscordbot> meh 20180830 03:54:28<+wesdiscordbot> I set up a brand new computer with Windows 10 recently. 20180830 03:54:43<+wesdiscordbot> They absolutely insist that you use an MS account even if you don't have one already. 20180830 03:55:01<+wesdiscordbot> You have to go out of your way at least twice during the same sequence to opt out. 20180830 03:55:13<+wesdiscordbot> If that's not aggressive marketing then I don't know what is. 20180830 03:58:36<+wesdiscordbot> (also, celmin, ftr, they're actually improving the native windows 10 skype app further in redstone 5) 20180830 04:13:37<+wesdiscordbot> Why on earth do people need to wait for the next feature update? 20180830 04:14:00<+wesdiscordbot> I have no idea. 20180830 04:14:02<+wesdiscordbot> Other than that, Windows constantly insists on updating BUILT-IN APPLICATIONS separate from the OS through the Store app. 20180830 04:14:12<+wesdiscordbot> Then you wonder why I am convinced that Windows has become utter garbage? 20180830 04:14:24<+wesdiscordbot> ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 20180830 04:14:32<+wesdiscordbot> It's weird, I know. 20180830 04:14:33<+wesdiscordbot> Calculator is on the order of dozens of megabytes large. 20180830 04:14:42<+wesdiscordbot> Mail is on the order of two hundred megabytes. 20180830 04:15:39<+wesdiscordbot> I'm going to give Mail a break because most of it is probably some Microsoft-patented not-spyware that serves ads or is otherwise involved in the process of serving you "better" ads elsewhere. 20180830 04:16:00<+wesdiscordbot> But Calculaator 20180830 04:16:03<+wesdiscordbot> In Windows 7 20180830 04:16:06<+wesdiscordbot> I don't use Mail. 20180830 04:16:11<+wesdiscordbot> Was about 760 kilobytes large. 20180830 04:16:27<+wesdiscordbot> Do you feel this is acceptable? 20180830 04:16:47<+wesdiscordbot> Even the advanced calculator add-in for Windows XP was less than a dozen megabytes. 20180830 04:16:57< celticminstrel> I'm not "choosing" not to use the updated versions of it. 20180830 04:17:03< celticminstrel> I don't have a choice in the matter. 20180830 04:17:09<+wesdiscordbot> How is this not the sign of anything but schizophrenic engineering? 20180830 04:17:43< celticminstrel> WTH is "redstone 5" anyway? When did we start talking about Minecraft? 20180830 04:17:44<+wesdiscordbot> Calculator is... 286 KB. 20180830 04:17:49<+wesdiscordbot> What are you talking about 20180830 04:17:51<+wesdiscordbot> The image viewer app is also around 200 MB because they decided to add everything and the kitchen sink into it. 20180830 04:18:00<+wesdiscordbot> Are you looking at the stats in installed programs? 20180830 04:18:07<+wesdiscordbot> Because those are inaccurate af. 20180830 04:18:20<+wesdiscordbot> Yes 20180830 04:18:21<+wesdiscordbot> What really matters is what I end up downloading from the Internet when the store app decides we need an update. 20180830 04:18:35< celticminstrel> This sounds interesting. 20180830 04:18:43<+wesdiscordbot> celticminstrel: codenames, come on. 20180830 04:18:46< celticminstrel> Maybe I'll check the size of calc.exe tomorrow. 20180830 04:18:51<+wesdiscordbot> Microsoft has always been using codenames for prerelease products. 20180830 04:19:19<+wesdiscordbot> Windows 95 was Chicago, NT 4 was Cairo, XP was Whistler, Vista was Longhorn. 20180830 04:19:21< celticminstrel> Well, I broke my update system so I probably won't be getting Redstone 5 anyway. 20180830 04:19:31<+wesdiscordbot> store page for calc says 11.8 MB 🤔 20180830 04:19:39<+wesdiscordbot> One Windows 10 update was codenamed Redstone around the time they were working on acquiring Mojang. 20180830 04:19:47< celticminstrel> ...why the hell is there a store page entry for a built-in component? 20180830 04:19:59<+wesdiscordbot> Because built-in components are now "apps". 20180830 04:20:03< celticminstrel> Ugh. 20180830 04:20:08< celticminstrel> Ugh x17. 20180830 04:20:08<+wesdiscordbot> In the stupid post-modern sense of the word. 20180830 04:20:42<+wesdiscordbot> Microsoft is finally moving away from Redstone codenames, at least. 20180830 04:20:43<+wesdiscordbot> https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-move-away-windows-10-redstone-codenames 20180830 04:21:09<+wesdiscordbot> I'm sure the reason they stuck with the RS codename series for so long is because under the hood barely anything has changed between updates. 20180830 04:21:28<+wesdiscordbot> Skype used to come built into some TVs. Now Microsoft pulled the rug from under their owners: that version no longer works. They just deprecated the old protocol. 20180830 04:21:40< celticminstrel> Sounds like they're taking a page from Mojang in their new codenames, too. 20180830 04:21:52< celticminstrel> What sinda said. 20180830 04:21:53<+wesdiscordbot> Every RS update has involved minor improvements over the update that preceded RS 1. 20180830 04:21:58<+wesdiscordbot> (Update or RTM, I don't remember which.) 20180830 04:22:13<+wesdiscordbot> Even smaller than Windows 8.1 vs. 8. 20180830 04:22:14<+wesdiscordbot> I am feeling slight schadenfreude at celmin being annoyed with Windows. 20180830 04:22:21<+wesdiscordbot> And yet you're still required to download a whole DVD image for the update. 20180830 04:22:30< celticminstrel> They must have totally changed the protocol. That's why it stopped working. It's not because I couldn't update, it's because they decided to fix what isn't broken. 20180830 04:22:40< celticminstrel> What's this Vultraz? 20180830 04:23:18< celticminstrel> Anyway for home stuff I'm still on Windows 7 pretty much forever, so... 20180830 04:23:35<+wesdiscordbot> :thonk: 20180830 04:23:36< celticminstrel> By the time they stop supporting Windows 7 I'll have a new Mac. 20180830 04:23:51<+wesdiscordbot> I feel that Windows is actually advancing much faster than it used to, given that we're now getting a major update twice per year. 20180830 04:24:15< celticminstrel> But can you really call it "advancement" or is it more like "sliding into a pit". 20180830 04:24:22<+wesdiscordbot> For example, the improvements from Windows Vista (2006) to Windows 7 (2009) were laughably small for three years of work. 20180830 04:24:45<+wesdiscordbot> Nobody has said they're slow. 20180830 04:24:57<+wesdiscordbot> Only that they're not worthy of all the fanfare around them. 20180830 04:25:16< celticminstrel> There was fanfare? 20180830 04:25:31<+wesdiscordbot> That DVD image I have to download each time is fanfare, yes. 20180830 04:25:48<+wesdiscordbot> It's the full OS install medium, stashed away in a cache. 20180830 04:25:59<+wesdiscordbot> It's still over 5 GB I have to download over a capped connection. 20180830 04:26:07< celticminstrel> Wait what 20180830 04:26:14<+wesdiscordbot> That much? 🤔 20180830 04:26:19<+wesdiscordbot> I don't recall it being that much 20180830 04:26:25<+wesdiscordbot> You people don't notice these things because you live in a world where you don't have to depend on capped 4G. 20180830 04:26:34<+wesdiscordbot> But I have to keep track of every single megabyte applications use. 20180830 04:26:42< celticminstrel> You're saying just each update is ~5GB? 20180830 04:26:49<+wesdiscordbot> The feature updates. 20180830 04:27:00<+wesdiscordbot> The big ones. 20180830 04:27:00< celticminstrel> Well that's not good. 20180830 04:27:01<+wesdiscordbot> Hey, it's not like iOS or macOS (I'm guessing) updates are small. 20180830 04:27:09<+wesdiscordbot> TH1, TH2, RS1 through 5. 20180830 04:27:21<+wesdiscordbot> They're at least exactly as large as the OS install medium. 20180830 04:27:37< celticminstrel> Does the OS install medium actually contain the full OS? 20180830 04:27:38<+wesdiscordbot> The features they bring mostly involve niché applications these days. 20180830 04:27:40<+wesdiscordbot> Yes. 20180830 04:27:43< celticminstrel> Okay. 20180830 04:27:50<+wesdiscordbot> I mean duh. 20180830 04:27:53< celticminstrel> There's no é in niche. 20180830 04:27:58<+wesdiscordbot> Otherwise you'd have a chicken-and-egg situation. 20180830 04:28:12<+wesdiscordbot> Where would the OS install come from if not from the full install medium? 20180830 04:28:24< celticminstrel> Downloaded from the Internet by the installer on the install medium, I guess? 20180830 04:28:33<+wesdiscordbot> Windows can still be installed offline. 20180830 04:28:38<+wesdiscordbot> It has to be. 20180830 04:28:44< celticminstrel> Yeah, I suppose. 20180830 04:28:46<+wesdiscordbot> (E.g. in OEM production environments.) 20180830 04:29:04<+wesdiscordbot> Or if the OS doesn't ship with necessary network drivers. 20180830 04:29:50<+wesdiscordbot> What if someone wants to install Win10 far into the future from an outdated install medium? Should it just say "we don't recognize your network adapter, Windows can't be installed"? 20180830 04:30:21< celticminstrel> Hehe 20180830 04:30:56<+wesdiscordbot> I don't know, Windows 95 does not have AHCI support. 20180830 04:31:08<+wesdiscordbot> I don't think it'd feel quite comfortable being installed to a SATA disk drive. 20180830 04:31:19< celticminstrel> I wonder how long GitHub will continue to work now. All the interactive features no longer work, presumably because they upgraded them to the latest ECMAScript standard or something. 20180830 04:31:41<+wesdiscordbot> Storage at least is more standardized than networking. 20180830 04:32:10<+wesdiscordbot> Networking is full of obscure adapters with verying levels of driver availability. 20180830 04:32:27<+wesdiscordbot> What's this about GH? 20180830 04:32:42< celticminstrel> It no longer supports old versions of Firefox. 20180830 04:32:51< celticminstrel> Thus, they've pulled out the rug twice now. 20180830 04:32:59< celticminstrel> Microsoft has, I mean. 20180830 04:33:00<+wesdiscordbot> update your browser. 20180830 04:33:04< celticminstrel> Not possible. 20180830 04:33:08<+wesdiscordbot> meh. 20180830 04:33:13<+wesdiscordbot> (Such as the PCI-E WLAN adapter I had that eventually stopped working on GNU/Linux, and I reacted to that by upgrading my whole motherboard to a newer model with built-in WLAN support.) 20180830 04:33:17< celticminstrel> Because Firefox no longer supports old versions of MacOS. 20180830 04:33:31< celticminstrel> I guess I can't merge PRs anymore. 20180830 04:33:34<+wesdiscordbot> celticminstrel the living personal computing museum. 20180830 04:33:44<+wesdiscordbot> 👌 20180830 04:33:46< celticminstrel> Well, I probably could from Windows, but. 20180830 04:33:53< celticminstrel> I want to merge 3502. 20180830 04:34:02<+wesdiscordbot> BACK IN MY DAYS 20180830 04:34:16<+wesdiscordbot> Yeah, I'd really recommend leaving that ancient version of macOS behind. Install GNU/Linux or something. 20180830 04:34:16<+wesdiscordbot> But yeah you can merge stuff using actual Git. 20180830 04:34:22-!- irker211 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20180830 04:34:25< celticminstrel> Unfortunately I'm not such a living personal computing museum though - I no longer have my old PowerMac. 20180830 04:34:25<+wesdiscordbot> You don't need to use GitHub for that. 20180830 04:34:29<+wesdiscordbot> You're subject to security vulnerabilities this way. 20180830 04:34:36< celticminstrel> Yeah, that's true shadowm. 20180830 04:34:39-!- irker018 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180830 04:34:39< irker018> wesnoth: josteph wesnoth:1.14 7d04389f4700 / src/gui/dialogs/lua_interpreter.cpp: Lua Console: Print an error message when not opening the console because :debug https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/7d04389f47007722bc0778b85fcf8ff1b923ac5f 20180830 04:35:04< celticminstrel> I don't really think installing Linux would solve as much as you think it would. 20180830 04:35:15<+wesdiscordbot> There are non-laptop motherboards with wifi support? 20180830 04:35:23<+wesdiscordbot> He has ancient hardware. 20180830 04:35:24<+wesdiscordbot> Yep. 20180830 04:35:29< celticminstrel> Thanks jyrkive. 20180830 04:35:34<+wesdiscordbot> (I was responsing to shadowm.) 20180830 04:35:35<+wesdiscordbot> Huh. 20180830 04:35:46<+wesdiscordbot> Hey, I merged it 😐 20180830 04:35:47< celticminstrel> I'm confused. 20180830 04:35:49<+wesdiscordbot> Not jyrki 20180830 04:35:52< celticminstrel> Oh, thanks Vultraz then. 20180830 04:35:59< celticminstrel> I didn't click to see the committer. >_> 20180830 04:36:05<+wesdiscordbot> That seems a bit anti-principle. 20180830 04:36:09<+wesdiscordbot> thonk intensifies 20180830 04:36:14<+wesdiscordbot> Because you can reposition a laptop to get better signal. 20180830 04:36:31<+wesdiscordbot> A desktop (rather than a transceiver attached to it in some way)? Not really. 20180830 04:36:32< celticminstrel> Pretty sure my desktop has wifi? 20180830 04:37:45< celticminstrel> Anyway it's late and I should sleep. 20180830 04:37:50<+wesdiscordbot> I don't think I looked much into that back then anyway since I was running off 3G modems on USB. 20180830 04:38:10-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: celticminstrel] 20180830 04:39:08<+wesdiscordbot> If you've ever wondered what it's like living rurally in a country where landlines aren't everywhere (or are ancient copper lines that can only do up to 2 Mbps like here in particular), it's like living my life. Literally. 20180830 04:39:42<+wesdiscordbot> It's like the opposite of mine. 20180830 04:39:45<+wesdiscordbot> Your subscription is priced by the amount of monthly data up plus down you can transfer. 20180830 04:39:58<+wesdiscordbot> I recall when my ISP was advertising gigabit fiber connections. 20180830 04:40:33<+wesdiscordbot> We also have excellent 4G coverage, and even mobile connections don't have data caps. 20180830 04:41:03<+wesdiscordbot> That sounds like a biblical miracle to me. 20180830 04:41:35<+wesdiscordbot> My provider also had a data cap of 500 GB on landlines. 20180830 04:41:41<+wesdiscordbot> I think they recently increased it to 1 TB. 20180830 04:42:46<+wesdiscordbot> Europe intensifies 20180830 04:43:19<+wesdiscordbot> More like Finland in particular. I know that the situation doesn't tend to be this good even elsewhere in Europe. 20180830 04:43:54<+wesdiscordbot> I know it's just as bad as it is here in the English countryside as well. 20180830 04:45:51<+wesdiscordbot> The problem with this country in particular is that there are only about 5 big cities (actually about 8 or 9, but a few are sort of conjointed). 20180830 04:46:17<+wesdiscordbot> The rest is considered for most intents and purposes to be either countryside, desert, or high mountains (or ocean). 20180830 04:46:27<+wesdiscordbot> Do you have any megalopolises? 20180830 04:46:55<+wesdiscordbot> idk what counts as a megalopolis. 20180830 04:47:11<+wesdiscordbot> Santiago has over 7 million people. 20180830 04:47:16<+wesdiscordbot> Is that good enough? 20180830 04:47:41<+wesdiscordbot> (I bet it isn't. Especially since probably 3 million of them don't live in the city itself.) 20180830 04:47:52<+wesdiscordbot> Think the northeastern US DC/Boston corridor. 20180830 04:48:00<+wesdiscordbot> Ew yeah no. 20180830 04:48:13<+wesdiscordbot> Basically, when you have several cities that end up connected by suburbs and sprawl. 20180830 04:48:34<+wesdiscordbot> It's basically several metropolitan areas next to teach other. 20180830 04:49:08<+wesdiscordbot> except built up 20180830 04:49:23<+wesdiscordbot> There's a huge rural area and coastal mountains separating Santiago and Puente Alto from the Valparaíso/Viña del Mar/Concón/Quilpué/Villa Alemana cluster. 20180830 04:49:41<+wesdiscordbot> Otherwise it'd probably almost barely count. 20180830 04:49:51<+wesdiscordbot> So you can drive from city A to city B, say, but you never really feel you left an urban area. 20180830 04:51:06<+wesdiscordbot> It's pretty obvious that the long term plan is to unify both metropolitan areas, but that'll probably not happen for another 50 years at least. 20180830 04:51:41<+wesdiscordbot> Unless 1) there's a major change in demographics and distribution of land; and 2) humanity is still able to survive by then. 20180830 04:51:52<+wesdiscordbot> 😬 20180830 04:52:15<+wesdiscordbot> For all we know half of Valparaíso and Viña del Mar will be underwater in 70 years. 20180830 04:52:22<+wesdiscordbot> ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 20180830 04:53:51<+wesdiscordbot> Who knows. The hairbrained tangerine running my country is currently playing finger-in-ears when it comes to cc. >_> 20180830 04:55:09<+wesdiscordbot> That and natural phenomena specific to the Peru-Chile trench region. 20180830 04:55:47<+wesdiscordbot> Valparaíso was last completely destroyed in 1906. 20180830 04:56:26<+wesdiscordbot> Most of Santiago's old and historical buildings were semi or completely destroyed in the 1985 earthquake. 20180830 04:57:16<+wesdiscordbot> The February 2010 and September 2015 earthquakes caused slight changes to the coastal line. 20180830 04:58:00<+wesdiscordbot> And the 1960 Valdivia earthquake (M 9.5, highest ever recorded in modern history) caused parts of Valdivia to sink underwater and remain that way to this day. 20180830 04:58:30<+wesdiscordbot> The question is not "if" but rather "when" the next great earthquake in Central Chile will happen. 20180830 04:58:58<+wesdiscordbot> biggest earthquake recorded, triggered by a nuke underearth … 20180830 04:59:10<+wesdiscordbot> What 20180830 04:59:21<+wesdiscordbot> There was a nuclear test right before 20180830 04:59:35<+wesdiscordbot> I doubt it has any connection. 20180830 05:00:23<+wesdiscordbot> It was also the fourth earthquake to affect the area in 48 hours. 20180830 05:00:38<+wesdiscordbot> It's quite a possibilty. The idea was to blast a few mountains to build a canal 20180830 05:00:48<+wesdiscordbot> M 8.1, M 7.1, M 7.8, M 9.5. 20180830 05:01:35<+wesdiscordbot> Anyway there certainly haven't been any such tests in our territory so any events of that kind would be entirely coincidental. 20180830 05:02:22<+wesdiscordbot> The tests were in argentinia 20180830 05:02:23<+wesdiscordbot> IIRC the most destructive nuclear weapon built thus far would only be capable of releasing an amount of energy equivalent to an M 6-6.5 earthquake, and that's without taking into account energy dissipation. 20180830 05:04:10<+wesdiscordbot> It's not the power of the nuke, but the tectonix plate. The nuke did just get something in action. Probably an earthquake would happened sooner or later naturally 20180830 05:06:42<+wesdiscordbot> The point either way is that the Greater Valparaíso metropolitan area is likely to become victim to another great earthquake within the next 10-50 years. Parts of the current shoreline are actually artificial following the 1906 earthquake, so they're the most likely to be completely reshaped next time there's a great earthquake around that latitude (keeping in mind that both the 2010 and 2015 earthquakes did already 20180830 05:06:43<+wesdiscordbot> penetrate deep into Valparaíso and Santiago despite the distance). 20180830 05:08:06<+wesdiscordbot> (In particular the 2010 earthquake caused complete disruption of transport for all of Central and South Chile and took down parts of the power transmission lines serving about 80% of the country, as well as several power generation sources.) 20180830 05:09:04<+wesdiscordbot> So with that kind of major setbacks likely to happen again in the future, it's unlikely we'll ever achieve the dream of becoming one with our coastal cities. 20180830 05:13:30<+wesdiscordbot> The other large conurbations are Greater Concepción (Concepción, Talcahuano and others, victims of the Feb 2010 earthquake) and Greater La Serena (La Serena and Coquimbo, which are the Central North analogues to Santiago and Valparaíso). 20180830 05:13:40<+wesdiscordbot> (victims of the Sep 2015 earthquake) 20180830 05:14:27<+wesdiscordbot> For whatever reason the Spaniards managed to choose the worst locations to build the first and now biggest cities. 20180830 05:15:20<+wesdiscordbot> Then again, the rest was untamed wilderness or areas populated by hostile natives, or desert. 20180830 05:16:23<+wesdiscordbot> It's still hard to understand how four of our largest cities (although also the smallest of the bunch) manage to exist in the desert 20180830 05:16:59<+wesdiscordbot> Or semi-desert, since three of them are cheating by being on the coast line. 20180830 05:17:12<+wesdiscordbot> Eh, the middle east does it 20180830 05:17:28<+wesdiscordbot> They have a longer history of adapting to desert environments. 20180830 05:17:38<+wesdiscordbot> The Spanish, and by extension us, really didn't. 20180830 05:17:50<+wesdiscordbot> IIRC over half of them died on their way to Santiago. 20180830 05:18:21<+wesdiscordbot> Northwards there's the Atacama Desert, and eastwards the Andes mountains which are cold af. 20180830 05:18:25<+wesdiscordbot> And steep. 20180830 05:18:51<+wesdiscordbot> Spain really picked the less hospitable continent to colonize 😬 20180830 05:18:55<+wesdiscordbot> I reckon someone saw the Santiago basin and decided "OMG FINALLY LAND THAT ISN'T ACTIVELY TRYING TO KILL US" 20180830 05:19:09<+wesdiscordbot> Little did they know there were four volcanoes and a history of earthquakes hiding around. 20180830 05:20:15<+wesdiscordbot> At least one of those volcanoes is inactive, and the other three haven't caused any devastating events in recorded (read: last 500 years) history. 20180830 05:20:36<+wesdiscordbot> Then again, the Spanish colonies were essentially just established to funnel resources back to Europe. 20180830 05:20:37<+wesdiscordbot> Unlike in the south, where we lost a town last decade to a volcano. 20180830 05:20:54<+wesdiscordbot> I doubt they gave much thought to the surroundings beyond "how much money can we make from this?" 20180830 05:20:59<+wesdiscordbot> Yes, this was among the poorest colonies. 20180830 05:21:21<+wesdiscordbot> And as a side effect we got the short end of the stick on every level, including the kind of people who came to live here. 20180830 05:22:28<+wesdiscordbot> idk exactly what happened to Perú to lead it to its current situation but logic would dictate that they should've been far better positioned since they were a Viceroyalty to Spain. 20180830 05:23:11<+wesdiscordbot> I'm sure their neighbours convincing them to get into fights with us didn't have anything to do with that. :V 20180830 05:23:13<+wesdiscordbot> Bolivar took them over, then couldn't manage it. 20180830 05:23:15<+wesdiscordbot> I think. 20180830 05:24:10<+wesdiscordbot> (I can't remember exactly) 20180830 05:24:56<+wesdiscordbot> Wasn't it two different countries at some point, actually 20180830 05:25:12<+wesdiscordbot> I think Bolivar actually only took one? 🤔 20180830 05:25:19<+wesdiscordbot> It was the Viceroyalty of Perú. 20180830 05:25:41<+wesdiscordbot> But I honestly don't know much about their internal relationship with Bolivia. 20180830 05:25:55<+wesdiscordbot> I'm sure there must be a reason they became uh 20180830 05:25:57<+wesdiscordbot> "buddies" 20180830 05:26:10<+wesdiscordbot> I think that's the best and most neutral way to put it. 20180830 05:27:49<+wesdiscordbot> Anything else would imply things that people would rather interpret in their own fashion to support political agendas. :V 20180830 05:28:07<+wesdiscordbot> Really, the only bit I know comes from the Extra Credits series on Bolivar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80b4ROFoaFY&list=PLhyKYa0YJ_5CIrQUO2LE2WDI9YqGl7bYr 20180830 05:29:23<+wesdiscordbot> (they do really good series) 20180830 05:36:18-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180830 05:36:24-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180830 06:08:08-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180830 06:32:03-!- TC01 [~quassel@venus.arosser.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20180830 06:55:14-!- TC01 [~quassel@venus.arosser.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180830 07:15:17<+wesdiscordbot> Hmmm there is a spanish translation of that movie I watched (about the nukes I mentioned earlier) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeeUpndDaT8 20180830 07:34:51-!- irker018 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20180830 07:47:41-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180830 08:07:13-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180830 08:10:12-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20180830 08:33:05< Soliton> specing: we don't have a master server. wesnothd handles games and rooms (currently just a lobby). we just have several wesnoth instances for different versions and one instance that the initial connection goes to and that redirects based on the client version. 20180830 08:34:16< Soliton> specing: (not sure how springrts works but i assume it has a master server that just lists current games/servers and the "real" game server that manages one game.) 20180830 08:57:43-!- irker234 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180830 08:57:43< irker234> wesnoth/wesnoth:master mattsc a70cfa46eb Fast Micro AI: code cleanup AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180830 09:56:24-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180830 09:56:30-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180830 11:49:19< irker234> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 josteph 7d04389f47 Lua Console: Print an error message when AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180830 11:56:47<+wesdiscordbot> i had been promised capability to mute the annoying 'enemy sighted' messages ages ago, can haz in next stable version ? please 20180830 12:38:09-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20180830 13:32:01< Soliton> check if there is an issue regarding that on github. 20180830 14:24:02-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: wedge009] 20180830 14:43:54-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180830 14:49:37-!- irker234 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20180830 16:08:05< specing> Soliton: games are managed by special servers, in our case that software is called SPADS 20180830 16:08:31< specing> we have multi-engine lobby, you can even play engines and games straight off git and the lobby system will automatically download everything 20180830 16:11:07< specing> The whole idea of designing around IRC in 2018 is weird to me. 20180830 16:11:12< specing> Spring lobby is from ~2002 20180830 16:13:05< specing> I guess if a new protocol were designed today, it would be heavily inspired by matrix (and thus be federated, with multiple redundant servers) 20180830 16:13:32< specing> SPADS = Spring Perl Autohost for Dedicated Server 20180830 16:13:52< Soliton> twitch integrates irc and is a lot newer. 20180830 16:14:04< Soliton> the age of a protocol doesn't mean much anyway. 20180830 16:14:21< specing> I often wonder just how hard it would be to run a non-Spring engine game on the spring lobby 20180830 16:16:21< specing> perhaps it would be enough to implement just the unitsync API (that is, things like generating map previews and computing hashes of files for the lobby to check whether players have all the files they require to play) 20180830 16:24:49< specing> I guess you still rely on distributing engines manually and getting them into distros? 20180830 16:29:41< Soliton> wesnoth is packaged in several distros if that's what you're asking. 20180830 16:30:13< specing> But wesnoth as in the engine 20180830 16:30:38< specing> we don't push spring into distros, we only push lobby clients there, then the lobby clients download whatever engine the player requires 20180830 16:30:46< specing> downloads* 20180830 16:31:07< Soliton> if you use words from different contexts here you may have to explain them. 20180830 16:31:55<+wesdiscordbot> it sounds kind of like what Minecraft does, where you download their client and can then choose what version you want to play? 20180830 16:32:17< specing> Yes (though I'm not familiar with Minecraft) 20180830 16:33:40< Soliton> perhaps you're interested in what add-ons can do in wesnoth's case. 20180830 16:34:48< specing> Addons would be like games in Spring context? 20180830 16:36:32< Soliton> who knows. 20180830 16:37:57<+wesdiscordbot> umm. what happened to cores, is load core still there. never seen any other addon core than default. 20180830 16:38:01<+wesdiscordbot> add-ons add new units/terrain/events/etc to the base game. 20180830 16:39:01< specing> In spring-land, you can have games that depend on other games and change them in various ways 20180830 16:39:14<+wesdiscordbot> @Lucipurr As far as I know, nobody ever made a Core add-on. The plan is also to remove the Core add-on type in 1.15, due to that. 20180830 16:39:21< specing> you can also do games inside maps 20180830 16:40:51<+wesdiscordbot> hmm, that be saddening as think the potential should be kept there, who knows what might happen in future. Its main problem was lack of documentation, so if can solve that there may be new cores made for total conversions. 20180830 16:44:15<+wesdiscordbot> specing: I feel like we're using different definitions for things, then. In wesnoth, the map is just the set of hex terrain tiles that the game is played on, so it wouldn't make sense to say that a game could be played any other way than on a map. 20180830 16:45:52< specing> A map is mandatory in spring-land as well, it is just that maps can also include code 20180830 16:46:10<+wesdiscordbot> @Lucipurr At the same time though, it doesn't make much sense to me to keep around something that nobody has used for over 4 years. 20180830 16:46:24< specing> typicall that code is used to add/remove units from games, add dynamic flora&fauna, rain and time-of-day effects, etc 20180830 16:48:22<+wesdiscordbot> natural seeing that nobody had made an guide for how to create a core in 4 years, but if you all want to do it cant really keep you from it. 20180830 16:48:49<+wesdiscordbot> specing: alright, in that case, it sounds like the difference is just that wesnoth has it the other way around - the map is part of the scenario .cfg file, which has things like the side definitions as well as code to actually do things. 20180830 16:49:56<+wesdiscordbot> @Lucipurr Well, the dev that originally implemented Cores essentially disappeared/moved on to other things, so I don't know that anyone really knows precisely how cores are supposed to work right now. 20180830 16:51:15<+wesdiscordbot> which is part of the problem, obviously 20180830 16:51:43<+wesdiscordbot> oh, alright. in that case it makes sense to remove it as what worth is an unsupported, abandoned, deadweight feature. 20180830 16:54:34< Ravana_> from what I understand about cores, their main problem is that you need to manually replicate too much of core WML tree to change one part, since using includes would recursively include too much 20180830 16:57:18<+wesdiscordbot> I'd also assume there'd be plenty of bugs and edge cases, given what its goal is and how much has changed over the last ~4 years without anyone using the feature except the default mainline "core". 20180830 16:59:00-!- stikonas_ [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180830 17:02:28< Soliton> the feature seems really simple to me. 20180830 17:02:58< Soliton> but sure there might be issues since noone has tested it much yet. 20180830 17:03:12< Soliton> so if someone were to do that... 20180830 17:04:07<+wesdiscordbot> Simple on paper, but the engine may well be depending on the behavior of the default core left and right... 20180830 17:06:00< Soliton> wouldn't be difficult to just include that part of the default core as well once you find out. 20180830 17:06:37< Soliton> though as Ravana_ said maybe including most things drags in much of default in the process. 20180830 17:44:58-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180830 17:45:04-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180830 17:48:39-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4dbc0486.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180830 18:54:50-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-161-4-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180830 18:54:51< travis-ci> gfgtdf/wesnoth#1252 (1.14 - 7801b9e : gfgtdf): The build passed. 20180830 18:54:51< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth/builds/422684317 20180830 18:54:51-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-161-4-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180830 19:55:05-!- irker976 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180830 19:55:05< irker976> wesnoth: josteph wesnoth:master 012142a3c637 / src/gui/dialogs/lua_interpreter.cpp: Lua Console: Print an error message when not opening the console because :debug https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/012142a3c63746fbbfd56292f894fe39fc519fb8 20180830 19:55:05< irker976> wesnoth: josteph wesnoth:master e2c591edbda2 / data/campaigns/Liberty/scenarios/03_A_Strategy_Of_Hope.cfg: Liberty S3: Add a story part https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/e2c591edbda28a3318ace5efb37f4f93463c3e5b 20180830 19:55:06< irker976> wesnoth: josteph wesnoth:master 6a1b59327e77 / data/campaigns/ (7 files in 4 dirs): Fix various typos. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/6a1b59327e776ba187609501bf29de0b4a745fd7 20180830 20:09:49< irker976> wesnoth: josteph wesnoth:master 8fd1b822dbdd / data/campaigns/Liberty/scenarios/03_A_Strategy_Of_Hope.cfg: Liberty S3: Play orcish war drums https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/8fd1b822dbddf5eb363da20ad878a63383405e6b 20180830 20:49:00< irker976> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 144e8a1f8d13 / src/server/game.cpp: fixup "fix oos when undoing after ally chat" https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/144e8a1f8d13a023261f32ff251b756eb1730845 20180830 20:49:02< irker976> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 1ac635ec63e7 / src/ (config.cpp config.hpp saved_game.cpp saved_game.hpp): put [resource] before other content; fixes #3345 https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/1ac635ec63e775dcd1aa90d04b9adf3f061ef476 20180830 21:03:42-!- TC01 [~quassel@venus.arosser.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20180830 21:03:55-!- TC01 [~quassel@venus.arosser.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180830 21:24:17-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-161-4-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180830 21:24:18< travis-ci> gfgtdf/wesnoth#1254 (master - 52e3dad : gfgtdf): The build was fixed. 20180830 21:24:18< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth/builds/422752317 20180830 21:24:18-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-161-4-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180830 23:49:27-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180830 23:49:29-!- irker976 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] --- Log closed Fri Aug 31 00:00:06 2018