--- Log opened Wed Aug 29 00:00:29 2018 20180829 00:01:26-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 01:49:20-!- lobby [~wesnoth@wesnoth/bot/lobby] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 01:49:20-!- Topic for #wesnoth-umc-dev: Wesnoth-UMC-Dev Project and general UMC development channel | http://wesnoth-umc-dev.ai0867.net | Staff: AI0867 | Blog: http://wesnoth-umc-dev.ai0867.net/blog/ | IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org, http://irclogs.ai0867.net 20180829 01:49:20-!- Topic set by AI0867 [] [Sat Jun 9 07:30:08 2018] 20180829 01:49:20[Users #wesnoth-umc-dev] 20180829 01:49:20[@ChanServ ] [ AI0867 ] [ janebot ] [ mattsc ] [ vn971] 20180829 01:49:20[@shadowm ] [ Elvish_Hunter] [ lobby ] [ Ravana_] 20180829 01:49:20[+wesdiscordbot] [ iwaim ] [ loonycyborg] [ Soliton] 20180829 01:49:20-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-umc-dev: Total of 13 nicks [2 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 10 normal] 20180829 01:49:43-!- Channel #wesnoth-umc-dev created Mon Mar 31 14:51:24 2008 20180829 01:49:53-!- Home page for #wesnoth-umc-dev: http://wesnoth-umc-dev.ai0867.net 20180829 01:50:33-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth-umc-dev was synced in 85 secs 20180829 02:31:25-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20180829 03:58:43-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180829 03:58:49-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 05:30:37-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 06:11:11-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 06:11:15< hk238> hi 20180829 06:11:38<+wesdiscordbot> hello 20180829 07:34:31< vn971> +1 hi 20180829 08:06:52< vn971> Which add-on to write? Anonymous poll here: https://www.poll-maker.com/poll2053404x77034388-56 20180829 08:11:02< hk238> I'm not a big fan of any of them, but for the terrain randomizer you could designate permutations for maps and then randomly select them 20180829 08:11:44< hk238> like for an example if you modify the main afterlife map to have "either a forest or a hill on hex X" and "either a swamp or water on hex Y" etc or maybe some bigger groups like "either hill + mountain" or "swamp + forest" on pair of hexes 20180829 08:11:58< hk238> then you have slightly altering map 20180829 08:12:18< hk238> with large enough selection of meaningful permutations you can have a very large number of possible maps to play 20180829 08:12:41< hk238> but the relevant part is trying make meaningful differences without entirely descending into chaos or noise 20180829 08:13:02< hk238> so the problem with map randomizers is that I think they tend to not make good maps most of the time, they're chaotic and noisy, and arbitrary 20180829 08:13:17< hk238> so therefore I'm more a fan of complex generation where you create some parts by hand 20180829 08:13:27< hk238> although of course it would be nicer to automate everything 20180829 08:13:41< hk238> but I'm not expecting results from such pursuits :D 20180829 08:14:58< hk238> you could make the cyclical 4 player map for afterlife which I'm trying to make but having trouble getting started with the code D: 20180829 08:16:25< hk238> hmm 20180829 08:18:09< hk238> https://pasteboard.co/HBo2YgC.png 20180829 08:18:18< hk238> here's a picture of the map it's kind of similar to the original afterlife map 20180829 08:18:43< hk238> so basic idea is that each "slot" would send units to the next slot to the right 20180829 08:18:50< hk238> so then you're sending different units to attack than you're defending with 20180829 08:19:00< hk238> and when a player loses then your units get sent to the slot after 20180829 08:19:10< hk238> so it could either be 1vs1vs1vs1 20180829 08:19:32< hk238> or 2vs2 so that 1st and 3rd player are a team, and 2nd and 4th player are a team (and the game ends when either side loses one of the leaders) 20180829 08:19:38< hk238> does that seem interesting? 20180829 08:19:38< hk238> :D 20180829 08:20:29< vn971> > so the problem with map randomizers is that I think they tend to not make good maps most of the time, they're chaotic and noisy, and arbitrary 20180829 08:20:29< vn971> Inedeed, this is the main problem. And this is where I can put my creativity in, and where I can try to apply my programming skills and put them to stress. 20180829 08:21:14< hk238> :D 20180829 08:22:49< hk238> I think the 2vs2 version would be most interesting 20180829 08:23:15< hk238> then it would be beneficial to try and select units that are good attackers for the next player, and also are good defenders from the previous player 20180829 08:23:25< hk238> in 1vs1vs1vs1 format it's not so important to select units offensively 20180829 08:24:05< hk238> maybe you can do the terrain randomizer I think it's very hard though 20180829 08:31:04< vn971> One detail that could be important (or not) for the map you shared. There is a line of defense with pure forest. This can be very good for e.g. elves. 20180829 08:33:42< hk238> yeah they're partial lines though :o 20180829 08:34:03< hk238> if you give up the 3rd village thne you can use the mountain 20180829 08:38:40< hk238> best line of defense is probably a vshape if you also give up the 2nd village maybe 20180829 09:06:28< vn971> > does that seem interesting? 20180829 09:06:28< vn971> IDK, I never had the time to properly analyze 3+ players concept yet. Maybe someone else has opinions I'm not yet.. 20180829 09:45:47-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180829 09:45:53-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 10:23:14< hk238> D: I think using WCs is essential for undead to try and win vs orcs 20180829 10:23:44< vn971> hk238: well I could have some unluck when -1 XP Lich died. 20180829 10:24:00< vn971> it's not like orcs _obviously_ won. 20180829 10:24:15< hk238> yeah but I only lost 1 unit due to a blunder it wasn't exactly a close game :D 20180829 10:24:31< hk238> but true luck was a big factor 20180829 10:25:33< vn971> 2 units. 20180829 10:25:46< vn971> Dark Adept died rather weirdly at game beginning as well. 20180829 10:26:03< vn971> anyway, this is not the chat where this discussion should take place. If you want we can Re.) 20180829 10:27:41< hk238> 2 units? 20180829 10:27:48< hk238> what was the 2nd unit? 20180829 10:28:39< hk238> I think I only lost the assassin I put on the east mountain thinking it wont die of 4 hits, but it did 20180829 10:28:58< hk238> we can re if you want sure 20180829 10:58:39-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [] 20180829 11:05:06-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 11:24:05-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180829 11:24:11-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 11:29:13-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180829 11:29:20-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 11:59:59-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/] 20180829 13:06:52<+wesdiscordbot> Is there a hook in mod api right before "choose attack" window pops up? 20180829 13:15:06< vn971> Strelock "hooks" are "events" in wesnoth, meaning you can trigger your code on specific events. There is no event for "choose attack". Full list of events: https://wiki.wesnoth.org/EventWML 20180829 13:15:45< vn971> Also, it's unclear to me why to have the event, how it'll function for AI, what it could do etc. 20180829 13:16:10< vn971> You can set callbacks on "unit moved" event and the like though. 20180829 13:43:55<+wesdiscordbot> I want to mess with the hit chance. Something similar to Bloodbowl supporting units (if an enemy unit is surrounded by more then 1 unit and those units are not surrounded by other enemy units, they will provide bonus hitchance to the attacker and a malus of the defender). The "on attack" event can be used but i want to display this bonus/malus information in the UI. 20180829 14:39:10< vn971> @Strelock: use weapon specials with conditions then. You can see an example of where it's already working in "backstab" Thief (Default Era) or a more complex calculation in Q-Civ. 20180829 14:39:49< vn971> in QCiv, unit-s damage depends on whether it's surrounded by 1 unit, 2 units, 3 units, or 4 units. 20180829 14:50:48-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 14:50:48< hk238> hi 20180829 14:53:37< vn971> hi again. 20180829 14:55:44< hk238> went to the library, they were giving away free books.. got a bunch of math textbooks :D 20180829 15:00:08<+wesdiscordbot> Thanks @vn971. Gonna look into those examples. 20180829 15:03:52< hk238> hm I was thinking about making a thread on the forums about this mappack I'm making, can you somehow upload the maps as images or it necessary to take screenshots? probably screenshots, but asking doesn't hurt :D 20180829 15:11:25< hk238> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=48668 20180829 15:11:30< hk238> made a forum post :o 20180829 15:54:00-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180829 15:54:06-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 16:43:47-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180829 16:43:53-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 17:15:34-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180829 17:15:40-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 18:17:08-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180829 18:17:14-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 18:43:06-!- vn971 [~vasya@94.158.103.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20180829 18:48:06-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180829 18:48:12-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 19:47:19-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/] 20180829 20:14:30-!- vn971 [~vasya@94.158.103.15] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 20:29:27-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180829 20:29:33-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 20:50:34-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180829 20:50:40-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 20:57:58-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180829 20:58:04-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 21:10:34-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180829 21:10:40-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 21:22:08-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180829 21:22:14-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 21:51:52-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20180829 22:39:54-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180829 22:40:00-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 22:47:04-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180829 22:47:10-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180829 23:07:45<+wesdiscordbot> Good evening. I'm not sure of the way is intended to ask some things here so... Let's ask like this and if its not the best, someone may tell me where/how to ask this. I've seen new things in 1.14 and don't know well how it works in this version. My question is, how may the changes in the LUA files could be effective ? Why I want to do that : I noticed this : (in Wesnoth 1.14\data\lua\wml) the file harm_unit 20180829 23:07:46<+wesdiscordbot> Reading the content (as I've done previously in wml datas) I noticed the code of damage. I thought about testing some things especially making not 10 damage (for units who has for example 10 damage & 2 attacks) but everytime some unit do damages it does 1-10 (for the sample). Reading the file (but its not wml ; its lua) I thought simply adding this line "local damage = maths.random( 1, damage )" But it doesn't apply. I'd like 20180829 23:07:46<+wesdiscordbot> to see if I made no mistake so I wrote something to just test (local damage = 1) but that didn't work. If someone has time to answer (and if its not too long for him/her) thanks in advance. 20180829 23:10:38<+wesdiscordbot> after restarting, any changes would take effect 20180829 23:12:01<+wesdiscordbot> I tested and remade a game (in case old datas still work for the saved game) but all attempts didn't work. As told, I made damage =2 and that didn't work they made their normal damage. But thanks for answer ! 20180829 23:12:08<+wesdiscordbot> If you are trying to alter the game's regular logic, you'll find that you're heading down the wrong venue. That file contains the implementation of the [harm_unit] event action as used by WML and Lua scripts. It does not affect regular gameplay. 20180829 23:12:38<+wesdiscordbot> Most of the logic used during regular gameplay is hardcoded unless it's part of the definition of an ability or weapon special, or overridden using events. 20180829 23:13:08<+wesdiscordbot> https://wiki.wesnoth.org/DirectActionsWML#.5Bharm_unit.5D 20180829 23:13:09<+wesdiscordbot> That works for mods ? 20180829 23:14:21<+wesdiscordbot> I'll read carefully the link, I tryed to find before but google wasn't my best friend to find ^^ 20180829 23:14:33<+wesdiscordbot> "but everytime some unit do damages it does 1-10 (for the sample)" 20180829 23:14:53<+wesdiscordbot> They way you phrase your question it sounds like you expect changes to [harm_unit]'s implementation to affect all gameplay. 20180829 23:16:13<+wesdiscordbot> I thought so because when I test a mod I copy wesnoth and make changes in "datas" to test campagns with it 20180829 23:16:25<+wesdiscordbot> [harm_unit] is used by scripts to simulate the UI and stat effects of a real unit attack action. It's not the implementation of normal attacks. 20180829 23:16:53<+wesdiscordbot> If the thing you are not testing is not using [harm_unit] then you're never going to see the effect of changes to it. 20180829 23:18:13<+wesdiscordbot> So it won't change the XP given by units either (because the standard function for XP was written on there too)... When I opened the file I thought it gave ability to do that and I found this intresting. 20180829 23:21:36<+wesdiscordbot> Like I said most of the actual gameplay logic is hardcoded in the game engine. 20180829 23:21:57<+wesdiscordbot> The stuff in data/lua is used in the implementation of scripted actions. 20180829 23:26:17<+wesdiscordbot> Okay, thanks for your time and answer, I was just thinking this because with new version maybe some part of datas shall be written differently and not hardcoded. I suppose someone with experience shall use these scripts instead of hardcoded datas when some units do damage ? 20180829 23:26:48<+wesdiscordbot> I wouldn't hold my breath. 20180829 23:27:34<+wesdiscordbot> Some parts of the logic rely on algorithms which are known to perform badly with the vanilla Lua engine, which is what we currently use. 20180829 23:28:27<+wesdiscordbot> And also moving it all to Lua would be a lot of effort that I doubt anybody at the moment considers to be worth the time investment. 20180829 23:28:38<+wesdiscordbot> (And potential for regressions.) 20180829 23:29:28<+wesdiscordbot> don't forget to inspire... I won't know you die because of answering to a noob's question 😛 20180829 23:30:03<+wesdiscordbot> If I may ask a question, your native language is not English, right? 20180829 23:30:10<+wesdiscordbot> Exact 20180829 23:30:27<+wesdiscordbot> But you had answer, your question is a bit rethoric... 20180829 23:30:28<+wesdiscordbot> Okay, because I don't really understand what you just said, it might be an idiom that doesn't translate well. 20180829 23:31:19<+wesdiscordbot> I wouldn't hold my breath. => if you don't hold the breathe, you need to inspire ? 20180829 23:32:44<+wesdiscordbot> When I said I wouldn't hold my breath I mean I wouldn't bet on the code in question being moved away from the engine any time soon. 20180829 23:33:19<+wesdiscordbot> Especially since the idea has been independently considered for about 4 or 5 years now. 20180829 23:36:45<+wesdiscordbot> I didn't intend to do this for "all game" but to test a mod for some campagns... My thought was "if it works well and intrest someone, so shall it be ; if not I shall have tested". That was just because I read those lines in a data in a language I could read and thought "like all wesnoth datas, they're here to be modded if someone wants". You look a bit angry aren't you ? 20180829 23:39:03<+wesdiscordbot> Probably tired about excess of questions and requests over years. Anyways good luck in the wesnoth project. The 1.14 have some very nice modifications (abilities written side to unit for example) and some graphics updates (thanks to authors). 20180829 23:57:07-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180829 23:57:13-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev --- Log closed Thu Aug 30 00:00:05 2018