--- Log opened Thu Aug 30 00:00:05 2018 20180830 00:02:50<+wesdiscordbot> Angry? I'm not angry. 20180830 00:04:02<+wesdiscordbot> I was just answering your questions objectively, that's all. 20180830 02:28:33-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180830 02:42:04-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180830 02:42:10-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180830 05:36:18-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180830 05:36:25-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180830 06:08:08-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180830 06:49:54<+wesdiscordbot> I just thought I was annoying you. If so sorry if not that's all good. 20180830 06:52:12<+wesdiscordbot> hai, i wanted to do an 'group teleport' ability for lvl5 epic mage, advancement to lvl4 great mage. It would function like this: the mage acts as tunnel starting point, the units of same side can use him to 'town portal' to villages, unlike normal teleport this would consume all moves of the teleporting unit. spotted anything that wouldnt work in this ? 20180830 06:54:27<+wesdiscordbot> One idea would to give teleport to all units, with having [filter_adjacent] type=lvl_5_epic_mage 20180830 06:56:15<+wesdiscordbot> Are you planning on doing a right-click menu for this? I don't think units can move on top of each other like you can move into villages. 20180830 06:57:00<+wesdiscordbot> i hadnt think it would be necessary, hmm ill go explore the possibilities than 20180830 06:57:50<+wesdiscordbot> right-click menu based actions tend to be unintuitive for the player 20180830 07:00:31<+wesdiscordbot> is the Utbs Support ability mp compatible ? i would like to give it to Orcish Warlord and Overlord. 20180830 07:00:50<+wesdiscordbot> I think so 20180830 07:01:30<+wesdiscordbot> Most things are MP compatoble. Basically everything which is replay compatible. 20180830 07:02:19<+wesdiscordbot> Besides [teleport] exists also [tunnel], which could be used to create and remove them when needed with [event]s 20180830 07:03:12<+wesdiscordbot> ah right, i could trigger it all within an event. 20180830 07:07:36<+wesdiscordbot> does range= within [attack] also accept number ? because if it does can give dynamic attack ranges telling the ranged attacks component to use directly that number, instead having to define an seperate string for each radius i wanted. 20180830 07:08:35-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180830 07:08:36< hk238> hi 20180830 07:09:21<+wesdiscordbot> hi 20180830 07:09:46<+wesdiscordbot> That isn't mentioned on the wiki, so I would say no. 20180830 07:09:48<+wesdiscordbot> https://wiki.wesnoth.org/UnitTypeWML#Attacks 20180830 07:26:53<+wesdiscordbot> what would be your thoughts on adding an 'quicksand' looking desert swamp tile ? 20180830 07:29:48<+wesdiscordbot> You would need to make the graphics … 20180830 07:30:35<+wesdiscordbot> … I mean, that's probably the bigger point. 20180830 07:31:48<+wesdiscordbot> i mean, if someone simply gone and made it all then would it be considered for addition ? 20180830 07:33:43< zookeeper> maybe. hard to say immediately whether a swamp+sand alias would make sense WRT what units could easily move over it. 20180830 07:34:09<+wesdiscordbot> the idea was mvt_alias swamp, defense sand 20180830 07:34:19<+wesdiscordbot> I feel like defrense should be swamp too. 20180830 07:34:48<+wesdiscordbot> Or the worst of both. 20180830 07:35:31<+wesdiscordbot> had an simple mangrove tile that is an tree overlayed on top of swamp, functioning as swamp movement, forest defense tile. 20180830 07:35:49< zookeeper> yeah, doesn't make sense that everyone's just as good at defending in quicksand as on regular sand. 20180830 07:36:43<+wesdiscordbot> quick sand sinks fast, so defense deep water, movement swamp would make best sense, but be bad for gameplay 20180830 07:37:35< zookeeper> if it's supposed to be terrain that's kind of just a barrier and not particularly beneficial to anyone, you could just have both movement and defense be worst of sand,swamp. 20180830 07:38:40<+wesdiscordbot> its supposed to be beneficial to nagas only, but do not ask me the reason 20180830 07:39:01<+wesdiscordbot> it would be kind of neat to have skeletons able to "submerge" in the quicksand, like deep water. 20180830 07:39:58<+wesdiscordbot> i mean it would probably be beneficial to nagas only, probably. im not sure how their snake-like movement would act in it. 20180830 07:43:17<+wesdiscordbot> Is there a way to do that currently? movement costs/defense aren't defined by race, so I don't think there's a way just via terrain to have, say, merfolk have bad defense in water/swamp but nagas have good defense. 20180830 07:44:23<+wesdiscordbot> Movetypes? 20180830 07:44:34<+wesdiscordbot> Also move costs and defense can be overridden on a per-unit basis. 20180830 07:45:06<+wesdiscordbot> It's just that their stats are assigned to general terrain types, not to specific terrains. 20180830 07:48:56<+wesdiscordbot> right. so you can't say something like "this is a swamp tile that everyone has bad defenses on, except nagas", because all the other movetypes have their own values set for swamp tiles. 20180830 07:50:09<+wesdiscordbot> The naga units or the movetype they have assigned need to have a corresponding value for swamp yes. 20180830 07:55:32<+wesdiscordbot> Defense: best of Sand; Movement: Worst of Sand & Swamp sound like it's good for nagas 20180830 08:05:43< hk238> wesnoth could use some additional terrain types :D 20180830 08:07:30< hk238> but I'm not sure what they would be :o 20180830 08:10:12-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20180830 08:10:33<+wesdiscordbot> i think all the people who made the eras without animations need to go make some for their units, at least attacks 20180830 08:10:33<+wesdiscordbot> they would be SO MUCH cooler then 20180830 08:10:33<+wesdiscordbot> they can upgrade the add-ons 20180830 08:10:33<+wesdiscordbot> EoMa is the best era i've found, the units are amazing and the animations are the best 20180830 08:11:12< hk238> animations are a lot of work though :o 20180830 08:15:55< hk238> different types of flowers also 20180830 08:15:55< hk238> :D 20180830 08:18:04<+wesdiscordbot> giant venus flytrap terrain - it deals damage each turn instead of healing, and the damage increases for every unit that dies on the tile. 20180830 08:18:22< hk238> maybe 3D terrain for wesnoth 1.15 :D 20180830 08:18:44<+wesdiscordbot> >.> 20180830 08:19:23< vn971> @Pentarctagon lol nice idea! :D ))) 20180830 08:19:33< hk238> it would probably be quite simple you'd have some sort of mesh corresponding to hexes, and nodes inside the hexes, and then you'd mark the elevation of the nodes 20180830 08:19:46< hk238> and as part of terrain graphics you'd store the node elevations 20180830 08:20:02< hk238> and then the rest is probably simple and requires no work and this is not at all optimistic 20180830 08:20:17< hk238> hi vn971 :D 20180830 08:20:27< vn971> hi) 20180830 08:24:59< hk238> you could have another tile between hills and mountains possibly 20180830 08:25:36< hk238> also I guess if you consider hill and mountain to be about elevation, then you could separate 'rubble' from hills, so that rather than being elevated, it would be rough in terms of texture so to speak 20180830 08:25:58< hk238> but I don't know thinking about how to expand the current pool of textures seems pretty hard 20180830 08:26:06< hk238> I mean current pool of terrains 20180830 08:27:07< hk238> also there are no "lower" terrains though there are higher ones, unless water is considered 20180830 08:27:29< hk238> could also have some additional step between vegetation and grass like brushland with tall grass and bushes 20180830 08:28:11< hk238> if this roughness is considered I'm not sure what kind of axis would represent changes from cobblestones to mud to rocky terrain 20180830 09:05:23<+wesdiscordbot> Good morning. I'd like to know if it exists some easy way/program to test units for Wesnoth. For example, you make some new unit (lets call him Storm Troll = ST who's upgrade of some troll) and want to see if ST animations works well and unit looks nice, presentation is good and have the good abilities you gave to him. Actually I mod it add it in standard game and recruit (or make advance the "previous" unit) it 20180830 09:05:23<+wesdiscordbot> to see if he looks good when I attack/defend/moove with it. I think there may be some easyer way especially just to see animations (I use actually PhotoPhiltre7). 20180830 09:06:40<+wesdiscordbot> In debug mode, there is a Create Unit option in the right-click menu. 20180830 09:07:06<+wesdiscordbot> You can enter debug mode by launching Wesnoth with --debug, or typing :debug ingame. 20180830 09:15:01<+wesdiscordbot> Effectively its easyer ^^ Thanks. Still a bit long but truly more efficient. 20180830 09:18:01<+wesdiscordbot> drawing animations is so time consuming, maybe if there was an easy method like animate 3d model in a program then export the frames as .png, in the end its going to stand out way too much compared to all the hand-drawn sprites. 20180830 09:18:08< vn971> @FfuzzyLogik: you want to see how "create" animations work? 20180830 09:18:48< vn971> you can "create" the unit from WML/Lua then on "turn 1 refresh", for example, with the flag animate=yes. 20180830 09:21:04< vn971> But yeah, Ideally one should test animations in some kind of a program. Something that can "show" you how it looks when animated, without having you to alter all the series of png-s manually. 20180830 09:21:04< vn971> I'm not a graphics designer though, I don't know these tricks. Maybe someone else will help! 20180830 09:25:23< vn971> talking about testing inside wesnoth. @FfuzzyLogik, I'm not sure, but maybe you can create new units with new animations on-the-fly. Like creating new images on your filesystem, and create a unit with animations referencing new (not cached) animation files. 20180830 09:25:23< vn971> Or maybe, alternatively, some method exists in Wesnoth to drop caches on the fly and re-load everything? 20180830 09:27:19<+wesdiscordbot> :refresh but that only purges the image cache. 20180830 09:27:30<+wesdiscordbot> For WML definitions you'd need to go back to the titlescreen and press F5. 20180830 09:28:08<+wesdiscordbot> I usually spawn an Ancient Wose and an Ancient Lich, make them enemies of my side, give them 10,000 HP, and save that for testing unit animations. 20180830 09:28:21<+wesdiscordbot> (By spawning the desired unit and having it attack either.) 20180830 09:28:44<+wesdiscordbot> (Also give the desired unit 100 attacks_left.) 20180830 09:28:44<+wesdiscordbot> Please give them invulnerability instead. Very high HP increases memory usage and slows down the AI. 20180830 09:28:55<+wesdiscordbot> I don't care about the AI. 20180830 09:29:09<+wesdiscordbot> It'd be counterproductive to end my turn while testing animations. 20180830 09:56:24-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180830 09:56:30-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180830 11:09:04<+wesdiscordbot> I have an holy/unholy weapon-special added to lightbeam and shadow wave attacks that adds/subs +2/-1 vs opponents of chaotic/lawful(and vice versa for unholy). What you think of the idea ? 20180830 11:10:31< vn971> @Lucipurr: in your own Era right? Could be fun.) 20180830 11:11:14<+wesdiscordbot> i had also done an special for blessed sword type attacks to nerf their effectiveness, its works via an event that deals half of main damage as extra arcane damage, also those are converted to blade damage from arcane 20180830 11:11:25<+wesdiscordbot> yeah in my UMC stuff. 20180830 11:17:22< hk238> hmm that could be an interesting base for expanding the mechanics like having some abilities which can be countered or negated 20180830 11:19:37<+wesdiscordbot> had an 'negates firststrike' for halberdier blade type attacks, it was simply wired into custom firststrike that checks for opponent not having it. 20180830 11:21:53< hk238> also I think wesnoth should have abilities which have range 2 20180830 11:22:17< hk238> like if the unit is adjacent then you get a normal effect, and if it's separated by 1 hex then you get some lower intensity effect 20180830 11:22:35< hk238> that would increase the complexity because the ways in which you can put units adjacent to each other are kind of limited 20180830 11:23:26<+wesdiscordbot> ah, like higher level units having an wider area of leadership, end level healers having an wider healing aura, etc. 20180830 11:25:02<+wesdiscordbot> it would best to create those as secondary ability, that then can get bundled with the main ability, similar to ABILITY_CURES macro 20180830 11:25:46< vn971> @Lucipurr: not sure if "anti-first-strike" is over-complicated TBH.. I mean, players have to understand all the rules as well.. Also it'd be strange if first strike wouldn't work just because the unit _has_ a particular weapon, but does not use it for defense. 20180830 11:28:46<+wesdiscordbot> have given that to halberd's blade attack because if halberdier is facing another unit with first strike and attacks using pierce dmg type attack, the enemy first strike will be negated due to both attacks having first strike special. But this didnt apply to blade type attack as it doesnt have first strike. 20180830 11:29:12<+wesdiscordbot> in that context it remains understandable as it simply ensures the halberdier's both attacks will negate the enemy first strike 20180830 11:29:44< vn971> @Lucipurr: hm? I mean, suppose one halberdier attacks another, and defender decides to use non-first-strike weapon. 20180830 11:29:53< vn971> oh wait. 20180830 11:31:38< vn971> I see, my mistake. What if it's another set-up though?: What if you attack a halberdier with another halberdier, with the attacker using a normal weapon? Will defensive "first strike" happen first? 20180830 11:31:44< hk238> yeah I think it would be pretty cool for leadership to have secondary effect on the more distant hexes 20180830 11:33:47<+wesdiscordbot> I'm trying to add some "AMLA" but "before last level". In 1.14 does some ability or new attack you win by "AMLA" but you get at level 1 lets say still be owned by the unit when he goes to level 2 ? Or can it be done like that. I thought about giving "poison attack" to non max level unit and if unit won it at low level he still have it when he upgrades... 20180830 11:35:32<+wesdiscordbot> @vn971 the attacking halberdier will have his first strike negated by both attacks of defending halberdier, simply. 20180830 11:36:22<+wesdiscordbot> Yes first strike is countered by... first strike ^^ 20180830 11:37:50<+wesdiscordbot> @hk238 speaking of leadership, have added ability_rally to all leadership units, that ensures +10% damage for adjacent allies of same level, but only after attacking. it made leaders way more useful. 20180830 11:39:00< vn971> @Lucipurr: Sorry, but again, the attacker attacks with NORMAL weapon. The defender defends with F-S weapon! 20180830 11:39:15<+wesdiscordbot> @Lucipurr but you needn't to add to "lower level" too ? 20180830 11:39:42<+wesdiscordbot> regular leadership does that, rally is seperate abil that works for same level 20180830 11:39:44< vn971> @Lucipurr: will the defender use its F-S ability or will it be negated? 20180830 11:39:59<+wesdiscordbot> Then attacker have not first strike so defender attack first, no ? 20180830 11:40:21< vn971> @FfuzzyLogik: the attacker has an additional F-S weapon, but does not use it. 20180830 11:41:21<+wesdiscordbot> since the attacker doesnt have F-S and the defender has it wont get negated, unless the attacker had 'negates f-s' on his normal attack, which is used for just that, without providing f-s to the unit otherwise 20180830 11:41:27< vn971> Ande because @Lucipurr says that his F-S checks whether a _unit_ has at least one F-S weapon, its effeect will be negated. 20180830 11:41:39<+wesdiscordbot> @Lucipurr Oh ok I thought you added this to ally around who will add itself some bonuses damage one hex more far (to get 2 hexes bonus) 20180830 11:42:02< vn971> @Lucipurr: again, the attacker DOES have an F-S weapon. It just doesn't use it for this particular attack. 20180830 11:42:13< vn971> choosing another weapon instead. 20180830 11:42:28<+wesdiscordbot> then its not using an F-S attack, an attack either has F-S or doesnt. 20180830 11:43:39< vn971> Does defender check the attacking weapon, or attacking unit as a whole? 20180830 11:44:07< vn971> I'm asking because earlier you said: > it was simply wired into custom firststrike that checks for opponent not having it. 20180830 11:44:08< vn971> I assumed it was about unit, not weapon... 20180830 11:44:10<+wesdiscordbot> the negates f-s special is a dummy, the regular f-s has added check to see if opponent has this or not 20180830 11:44:31<+wesdiscordbot> if does not have takes effect 20180830 11:44:44< vn971> > see if opponent has this or not 20180830 11:44:44< vn971> to see if unit has it or to see if the exact weapon has it? 20180830 11:47:32<+wesdiscordbot> super simple stuff. inside custom firststrike definition filter_opponent[not]special=negate_firststrike. negate_firststrike is an weapon special [dummy] given to halberdier blade attack 20180830 11:50:07-!- vn971 [~vasya@94.158.103.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180830 12:07:14-!- vn971 [~vasya@94.158.103.15] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180830 12:07:30< vn971> !logs 20180830 12:09:02< vn971> oh, the page referenced in this channel (http://wesnoth-umc-dev.ai0867.net/) explains how to work with wesnoth code: 20180830 12:09:02< vn971> > we opted to use one of the major version control systems to manage the repository that grants life to the project: Subversion (SVN) is a .... 20180830 12:09:23< vn971> and the titlescreen tells stuff about sourceforge.net 20180830 12:09:46< vn971> *talks about 20180830 12:11:42< vn971> and the application procedure states one should create a sourceforge account. IDK, is it still relevant? 20180830 12:13:09< vn971> If it's no longer relevant, I wonder whether we can/should change channel topic to smth like https://wiki.wesnoth.org/Create 20180830 12:38:09-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20180830 13:08:03<+wesdiscordbot> hey, i just wanted to ask what do you think of positioning based abilities and specs, like flanking, formation, spear wall, shield wall, backstab ? i find them more interesting than simpler auras. 20180830 13:12:01< hk238> I think those seem interesting 20180830 17:44:58-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180830 17:45:04-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180830 18:58:45<+wesdiscordbot> If you want some idea of new ability I thought about "contamination" who makes unit "ill" (same principle than poison). Unit is "ill" may have something like : First round : -1 attack damage (melee and range) ; -10% to all resistances Second round : "add" -2 damage (melee and range ; so a total of -3 damage ; can't be "negative") ; -10% to all resistances (total -20%) Third round : -1 number of attacks (melee and 20180830 18:58:45<+wesdiscordbot> range) ; -10% to all resistances (-30% in total). Then nothing more... Stand like that until he's "cured". Samely than poison, you can't be healed if you're ill ; first need to be cured then you can be healed. If you have something who helps [if something slows the ill but not totally cure], the effects of ill don't increase. It changes its nor healing nor damaging but changing things in battlefield... 20180830 19:47:10<+wesdiscordbot> Problem with that is that it sounds quite complicated, unlike poison 20180830 19:47:26<+wesdiscordbot> but of course, it can be done with WML, as almost anything in this world 20180830 19:54:06< hk238> Sounds complicated when written down but as part of game experience it's probably quite simple. 20180830 19:55:31<+wesdiscordbot> To make it more simple maybe just -1 ; -2 and -3 damage... (and -10% resistances by turn too) 20180830 19:56:41< Ravana_> you won't really understand how it goes unless you are have implemented abilities like poison variants or hex 20180830 19:56:59< Ravana_> better start with something more straightforward 20180830 20:00:29< hk238> maybe :o 20180830 20:04:41< vn971> Ravana_: BTW, I noticed in a game today that Medusa petrify didn't stop working. Is that a known problem? Going to report on issues pages otherwise. 20180830 20:04:49< vn971> * going to raise an issue otherwise. 20180830 20:07:12< Ravana_> known if rpg 20180830 20:07:29< Ravana_> https://github.com/ProditorMagnus/Ageless-for-1-14/issues/9 20180830 20:08:52< vn971> Ravana_: thanks for the info! Clear. 20180830 21:27:33-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/] --- Log closed Fri Aug 31 00:00:06 2018