--- Log opened Mon Sep 10 00:00:21 2018 20180910 01:17:03-!- sevu [~sevu@p54854EA0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180910 01:22:07-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180910 01:22:13-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180910 03:09:24-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180910 03:09:30-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180910 03:54:48-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|sleep 20180910 06:02:28-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180910 08:02:49-!- vn971 [~vasya@94.158.103.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20180910 08:03:04-!- vn971 [~vasya@94.158.103.15] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180910 09:45:44-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180910 10:40:36< hk238> hi 20180910 10:40:50< hk238> I wonder if it's hard to change the 'wesnoth terraforming addon' so that you can change any hex to any terrain during any player's turn 20180910 10:40:59< hk238> would be an easy way to convert it into a collaborative map editor tool 20180910 10:40:59< hk238> :D 20180910 11:06:45< zookeeper> unless i've missed some recent developments (which is arguably quite possible) then that should be impossible, not just hard. 20180910 11:07:48< hk238> is that because commands are only available to the active player? 20180910 11:08:19< hk238> I was sort of anticipating that might be an issue, if it's the case 20180910 11:09:39< zookeeper> yeah, i'm not aware of any method for out-of-turn clients to do synced commands 20180910 11:10:08< hk238> hmm that's unfortunate 20180910 11:13:07< hk238> how about labels, can you place them on opponent's turn? 20180910 11:13:35< zookeeper> there's no (synced) event that triggers when a player on an out-of-turn client does something... although i dunno what'd happen if you for example used [sync_variable] in a select event. 20180910 11:13:45< zookeeper> i don't recall 20180910 11:14:51< hk238> if it was possible, then maybe it would be possible to convert the labels into terrain using an event on the active players turn 20180910 11:16:02< hk238> hmm is it possible to allow the client storing the changes into a variable, and the executing them on their turn in a synced event? 20180910 11:16:23< zookeeper> sure 20180910 11:16:26< hk238> like so you only virtually prepare the changes on your client if it's not your turn+ 20180910 11:17:05< hk238> hmm is there some unsynced command which allows players to click a tile or something like that? :d 20180910 11:18:19< hk238> I was thinking coudl try and make this editor out of this terraforming tool, although it might also be easier to start from scratch since this contains a lot of unnecessary functionality.. basically every player would get like a ghost unit that has 1 movemetn cost on every terrain including impassable, and they'd have like vision range 10 and could modify any tile in range 20180910 11:18:31< hk238> and turns would be used juts for moving the 'editor' characters around 20180910 11:18:45< hk238> then you could have like 8 players working on the same map 20180910 11:18:47< hk238> :D 20180910 11:19:44<+wesdiscordbot> Hi 20180910 11:20:46< hk238> hi 20180910 11:36:30< vn971> hi all) 20180910 11:37:04< vn971> agree with zookeeper for the sync problem. 20180910 11:38:13< vn971> if you would _know_ that some event originated from some side then you could easily fetch updates from said side using wesnoth.synchronize_choice. 20180910 11:38:54< vn971> the problem is that you can't know this. I actually proposed a kind of wesnoth API for async events, but I think it was discarded. 20180910 11:39:30< vn971> I don't mind, it's hard to implement random feature requests. Also it could be merged if I'd provide a PR. But I didn't, so... 20180910 12:22:33-!- celmin|sleep is now known as celmin|away 20180910 12:29:44< hk238> hmm how exactly does village income / upkeep interaction work? It seems the manual isn't phrasing this accurately 20180910 12:35:21< hk238> nevermind 20180910 12:36:41< hk238> hmm there's something fishy about this 20180910 12:36:41< hk238> :D 20180910 12:38:35< hk238> yeah it doesn't seem to work correctly 20180910 12:38:42< hk238> so something is not correct 20180910 12:38:48< hk238> juts not sure what that is exactly 20180910 12:40:26< hk238> it appears that if I start a game with age of heroes and recruit 2 level 2 units, and then capture villages, then the formula 2 + village income * villages - max(0, upkeep - villages ) holds 20180910 12:41:07< hk238> but if I start a game in this afterlife map I made after afterlife, and I recruit 6 level 1 units and hold 3 villages, the villages seem to support 2 level 1 units instead of 1, even though the default settings say village support is at 1 level per village 20180910 12:42:26< hk238> that is with leader + 6x saurian skirmisher + 3 villages the income is at 8, the upkeep is at 6 but 0 of that is deducted.. actually even that's not correct 20180910 12:43:40< hk238> it appears the actual function for this map is 2 + village_income * villages - max(0, villages*3 - upkeep) 20180910 12:43:46< hk238> for whatever reason 20180910 12:43:49< vn971> hk238: Afterlife uses a custom "gold per village" and "upkeep per village" settings. 20180910 12:43:57< hk238> oh okay 20180910 12:44:03< vn971> press Ctrl S during game 20180910 12:44:09< vn971> or Alt S 20180910 12:44:31< hk238> well that clarifies things, I had been thinking the value of village in a regular game is 6 gold per turn 20180910 12:45:08< hk238> or actually to be precise the typical value of a village is 6gold per turn, because if you don't take it, then opponent gets it, and gets 3 gold.. where as if you take it, and they dont, you gain 3gold 20180910 12:45:11< hk238> so the difference is 6 gold 20180910 12:45:25< hk238> the notable exception to this is that villages on your side that the opponent can't capture are only worth 3 gold 20180910 12:45:42< hk238> (meaning that you can skip taking 2 of your villages if you can hold onto 1 opponent village) 20180910 12:46:05< hk238> but of course that kind of trade off doesn't actually happen 20180910 12:46:44< hk238> although it could if the map had a particular shape 20180910 12:47:26< hk238> speaking of which I could incorporate that element into the next map I'm making :D 20180910 12:48:00-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20180910 12:49:12< hk238> actually I think that system is quite nice for afterlife 20180910 14:01:45<+wesdiscordbot> forgive me for this question is rather random, but still i have gotten poked via an PM encouraging to inquire about it. Is there any chance for 'Extra Advancements for Default era units' getting mainlined ? 20180910 14:08:46< vn971> @Lucipurr I'd personally oppose this because those extra advancements are another thing for new players to learn, and also because it's not very balanced. 20180910 14:09:49< vn971> In fact I'd even prefer to shrink unit number whenever possible, move away those lvl5 leadership drakes and "swarm" cuttlefish out of visibility in core add-on-less wesnoth. 20180910 14:17:35< hk238> meanwhile I disagree with vn971's simplification agenda 20180910 14:17:36< hk238> :D 20180910 14:19:32< hk238> but 'extra advancements' does seem a little off in several ways 20180910 14:26:18< hk238> there does seem to be a couple of interesting options also just looking at the add-on description, since I've not actually encountered most of those advancements :o 20180910 14:31:31< hk238> pikeman having the option to advance into some sort of steadfast unit seems interesting, as well as the crusader option for swordsman, and elvish mounted archer type line seems also interesting, but it seems questionable whether it should advance from elvish scout, goblin impaler and soulless having a further advancement class.. why not? :D Arch Necromancer seems a little unnecessary 20180910 14:31:41< hk238> but then it might be interesting :D 20180910 14:33:14< hk238> meanwhile it does seem the other options could be subject to some critique perhaps 20180910 14:33:37< hk238> but at least personally I have felt that there could be a few more units in mainline factions including additional advancement options 20180910 14:35:03< hk238> I do kind of appreciate the effort by the author of the addon even though there seems to be a considerable difference of taste :D 20180910 14:38:47< hk238> also there could be an undead faction.. where all the undead were drakes! Or not. 20180910 14:38:50< hk238> :D 20180910 15:05:41<+wesdiscordbot> well, if you ask me should expand the unit lines so that most of them go all the way from lvl 0 to 4, with a select few reaching lvl 5 for each faction. 20180910 15:07:20< Ravana_> it is denied fpi 20180910 15:13:11< vn971> Ravana_: FPI? 20180910 15:15:06< Ravana_> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=34904#w0fpi3 20180910 15:17:03< Ravana_> many from that list are implemented already as well 20180910 15:17:04<+wesdiscordbot> whats wrong with having an lvl3 stats upgrade only levelup for the goblin pillager. according to FPI we cant have it. 20180910 15:19:07<+wesdiscordbot> erff.. on a second thought i leave you all to your holy FPI. ill make an era for them then, got it. 20180910 15:20:30< Ravana_> I know that at least 1,2,5,7,8,10,11,13,17,18,20,21,22,23,24,25,29 from that list already exist 20180910 15:39:13< vn971> Ravana_: thanks! 20180910 15:47:32-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180910 15:47:39-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180910 16:20:33<+wesdiscordbot> ^ by "already exist" he meant mostly outside mainline 20180910 16:21:57<+wesdiscordbot> Lucipurr, let me ask the other way round, why should units have even more ways to advance? Sometimes less is more. 20180910 16:22:59<+wesdiscordbot> you are entitled to your own opinion, that's why making add-ons exists 20180910 16:23:33<+wesdiscordbot> if there are really that many people interested in extra advancements, people will download the add-on 20180910 16:23:41<+wesdiscordbot> (see Reign of the Lords) 20180910 16:38:59< hk238> 27 would be possible too, like.. dwarf + gryphon = gryphon dwarf, gryphon dwarf + dismount = dwarf, gryphon 20180910 16:39:00< hk238> :D 20180910 16:40:05< hk238> although that's almost 30 20180910 16:41:43< hk238> also 33 would be possible, well for a custom mod or so, like 'if a thief attacks a unit in a village, there's a chance to steal 1 gp, but only 1 gp per such unit per turn so that multiple thieves can't make more income' this would be justifiable by the thief stealing the upkeep from the unit in question 20180910 16:41:43< hk238> :D 20180910 16:42:37< hk238> although unnecessary, and would probably require canceling 1 income from the village if it was also subsequently captured on the next turn 20180910 16:43:33<+wesdiscordbot> @sevu mainly want it because of campaign or PvE reasons, its saddening to see my poor goblin pillagers getting cutoff at lvl2 when playing something like the Great Quest or 2p Campaign. 20180910 16:44:24<+wesdiscordbot> then you can try reign of the lords 20180910 16:44:42<+wesdiscordbot> I don't know if they have advancements for pillagers, but there should be some for orcs 20180910 16:45:17<+wesdiscordbot> tried it, the stats increases for many of them are rather questionable 20180910 16:45:37<+wesdiscordbot> also too much weird stuff 20180910 16:46:03<+wesdiscordbot> fair enough, then you'd be better off making your own addon for it 20180910 16:46:33<+wesdiscordbot> so suggest me level ups 😄 20180910 16:46:40<+wesdiscordbot> 🤔 20180910 16:46:53<+wesdiscordbot> level ups are hard because you need new sprites and such 20180910 16:47:04<+wesdiscordbot> so I would suggest some stat AMLAs as you previously were saying 20180910 16:47:11<+wesdiscordbot> e.g. +1 melee dmg, +1 ranged dmg, etc. 20180910 16:47:24<+wesdiscordbot> The Golden Age and Extended Era are similar add-ons to Reign – I'm not sure if they have been ported though 20180910 16:47:29< hk238> afterlife could be interesting with some special amla mod 20180910 16:47:40<+wesdiscordbot> if you are good at WML 20180910 16:47:51<+wesdiscordbot> you can also make some specials, like nets no longer just slow, but reduce enemy movement to 0 20180910 16:47:52<+wesdiscordbot> or something 20180910 16:48:27<+wesdiscordbot> others, maybe some units can get the rage special (berserk, but only 3 rounds of combat), or a better health increase than just +3 20180910 16:57:47-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180910 16:57:53-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180910 17:06:28<+wesdiscordbot> Hello. 20180910 17:13:46<+wesdiscordbot> Hello. This is the #Hi Channel. 20180910 17:17:48<+wesdiscordbot> (It's In the last weeks was often the case that people just wrote Hi) 20180910 17:35:49<+wesdiscordbot> Didn't mean to bully you, Rory. It's just a community joke at this point 20180910 17:43:33<+wesdiscordbot> hi 20180910 17:43:55<+wesdiscordbot> WML ❤ 20180910 17:44:15<+wesdiscordbot> Darn. This Monster Hunter: World has kept me from working on my stuff in like a month 😱 20180910 17:44:19<+wesdiscordbot> Make it go away 20180910 18:23:09-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180910 18:23:15-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180910 18:27:21< hk238> thinking about creating an 1vs1 map and placing some statues of notable women in computing using the caves of the basilisk petrify method 20180910 18:27:28< hk238> like Ada Lovelace, Grace Hopper etc 20180910 18:27:36< hk238> and then including a description 20180910 18:27:50< hk238> but it's also that actually making a reasonable map is time-consuming and I'm out of ideas 20180910 19:06:41<+wesdiscordbot> how bout this: its a map like aethermaw, 1v1 format. The layout starts out with multiple, way too many paths to enemy, the map shrinks with each turn as turns pass, down to a min. amount of 3 possible attack routes leading to enemy. 20180910 19:28:00< hk238> that could be an interesting concept, especially if it would be random shrinkage 20180910 19:31:40<+wesdiscordbot> not random but 'patterned random', selects randomly which pair of paths to shrink next. 20180910 20:48:35<+wesdiscordbot> The most amazing mod with extra unit advancements was War Of The Gods, a goblin could get up to level 4, all of them had custom sprites 20180910 20:48:48<+wesdiscordbot> There were three or four level sixes 20180910 20:48:57<+wesdiscordbot> Plenty of level fives 20180910 20:49:15<+wesdiscordbot> And it was all fairly well balanced 20180910 20:51:11<+wesdiscordbot> that was just a compilation of other eras 20180910 22:01:10-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20180910 22:09:58-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/] 20180910 22:22:09<+wesdiscordbot> And... I bring back the conversation. Mostly. 20180910 22:22:14<+wesdiscordbot> How do you add lua. 20180910 22:22:28<+wesdiscordbot> Like, in a namewhatever.lua file? 20180910 22:22:51<+wesdiscordbot> Is there anything special I need to do? 20180910 22:48:38<+wesdiscordbot> And another question: How would you modify the recruit cost of a mainline unit? For example, a Heavy Infantryman costs 19 gold. How would you increase that without creating a custom instance of a heavy infantryman with a modified ID and cost? 20180910 22:49:27<+wesdiscordbot> So I have no wish add this file: umc_heavy_infantryman.cfg --- Log closed Tue Sep 11 00:00:06 2018