--- Log opened Wed Sep 12 00:00:03 2018 --- Day changed Wed Sep 12 2018 20180912 00:00:03< hk238> Agreed. Perhaps I played it and forgot, and it was a cryptomnesism or whatever the word for that was :D 20180912 00:00:07< hk238> cryptomnesic? 20180912 00:00:20< celticminstrel> It used to be called Besieged Druids. 20180912 00:00:48< hk238> I probably couldn't remember but I don't think I have tried that one 20180912 00:00:52< celticminstrel> (Sorry, I don't know the word you're going for there.) 20180912 00:01:35< hk238> crypto as in secret, and mnesic.. as in related to memory.. doing something out of memory without knowledge of it being a memory rather than a novelty, or something along those lines 20180912 00:02:12< hk238> I'm innocent! I never steal anything. 20180912 00:02:12< hk238> :D 20180912 00:02:26< hk238> okay I'm making too many jokes lately 20180912 00:03:13< hk238> like for an example, coming up with a tune that is actually something you heard before, and thinking it's your own idea 20180912 00:03:38-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180912 00:35:51-!- gfgtdf_ [~Daniel@x2f61262.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180912 00:39:04-!- gfgtdf [~Daniel@x4dbbea7c.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180912 00:39:06< hk238> hmm I can't help but think that this map shape looks like a potato. :( 20180912 01:09:55-!- gfgtdf_ [~Daniel@x2f61262.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180912 01:15:13-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/] 20180912 01:47:34<+wesdiscordbot> Wonderful! 20180912 01:47:45<+wesdiscordbot> All maps should be potat shaped 20180912 03:38:00-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|sleep 20180912 03:40:20-!- celmin|sleep [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20180912 05:11:25-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: mattsc] 20180912 05:41:23-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180912 06:32:13-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180912 09:36:34< vn971> how do I set my map to use random time at game start? 20180912 09:38:48< vn971> I'm using [multiplayer] random_start_time=yes but it doesn't really have any effect (that I could see). 20180912 09:43:47< vn971> I can't find a method to just set random time from Lua as well. 20180912 09:43:50< vn971> thoughts? 20180912 10:08:18< zookeeper> did you have "use map settings" toggled on when you tested? 20180912 10:08:41< zookeeper> that's the only explanation i can come up with for why it might not have worked... even though i think it should, even in that case. 20180912 10:09:02< zookeeper> (or maybe you just always got the same random result if you didn't test many times) 20180912 10:17:09<+wesdiscordbot> Or alternatively https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/3515 20180912 11:38:11-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180912 12:31:10< hk238> Choicerer's map randomizer is rather cool 20180912 12:31:10< hk238> :D 20180912 12:33:58-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180912 12:55:33-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|away 20180912 13:59:53-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: mattsc] 20180912 14:10:20-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180912 14:27:23< vn971> @jyrkive thanks! Is the fix OOS-safe? Can I re-compile and start playing online with the newer version? 20180912 14:37:20-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/] 20180912 14:51:58-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: mattsc] 20180912 15:14:27-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180912 15:31:51< vn971> hmm, I have a brilliant simple idea. 20180912 15:32:34< vn971> implementation should take less than a few hours (maybe even few minutes), yet it could potentially be interesting to players. 20180912 15:41:04<+wesdiscordbot> vn971: AFAIK, the fix isn't OOS safe. 20180912 15:42:04< vn971> @jyrkive ouch! So it's for wesnoth-1.15+ only? 20180912 15:43:07<+wesdiscordbot> No, it's in 1.14.4+dev. 20180912 16:14:19<+wesdiscordbot> But if it is not OOS safe, wouldn't that mean that 1.14.5 players can't play with 1.14.4 players? 20180912 16:17:25<+wesdiscordbot> Only if the random start time option is used. 20180912 16:37:22-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180912 16:40:49< hk238> although balance is often raised as a point, it can also be argued that mainline factions are hardly balanced beyond lvl1 units 20180912 17:06:59-!- gfgtdf [~Daniel@x2f61262.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180912 17:07:59< gfgtdf> vn971: the fix is oos save becasue it changes the scenario on he host _before_ he sends it to the other players. 20180912 17:19:23-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20180912 17:26:16< vn971> @gfgtdf @jyrkive: should we cherry-pick it into 1.14 as well then? Currently it's committed to master. 20180912 17:26:49< gfgtdf> vn971: what makes you think its only on master ? 20180912 17:27:14< gfgtdf> vn971: in fact i commited it first on 1.14 then jyrkive cherry-picked it to master 20180912 17:27:57< vn971> gfgtdf: my mistake of reading git. You're right, it's in 1.14 as well. 20180912 19:08:57< vn971> Q: if I change the __cfg of a unit-s abilities, will they be applied to the unit on-the-fly? 20180912 19:09:28< vn971> I noticed previously that if I remove [object]-s from a unit, its effects will not be removed properly. What about abilities? 20180912 19:09:32-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180912 19:10:36< gfgtdf> the __cfg is a wml copy of the unit, it haves exactly like store_unit its is a normal wml table that is not connected to he original unit. 20180912 19:11:56< vn971> gfgtdf: is there any way to change an ability of an already existing unit then? 20180912 19:12:10< gfgtdf> i personalyl reccomend not to use __cfg if possibel and also do all lua unit changes via direct manipulation or wesnoth.add_modification 20180912 19:12:41< vn971> gfgtdf: can I _change_ an ability as a modification though? 20180912 19:13:13< gfgtdf> vn971: hmm i think you ahve to remove it and readd it 20180912 19:15:10< gfgtdf> vn971: if that does not work you can of do it the wml way: store_unit (.__cfg) and unstore_unit (wesnoth.put_unit/wesnoth.create_unit) 20180912 19:15:50< gfgtdf> vn971: what exactly are you trying to do ? 20180912 19:17:32< vn971> gfgtdf: I'm trying to boost up poison and healing effects for all units. Poison is relatively easy, but I have concerns on healing. 20180912 19:19:40< vn971> gfgtdf: one idea that came to me now is that I can downscale HP of all units before a turn, let the normal healing/poison apply and then upscale back. Not sure, have to think about that.. 20180912 19:24:06< zookeeper> have a turn refresh event which checks for all units who have a heals ability, and bumps the healing amount on a unit variable -level? i don't recall if there's a hard-coded cap of 8 somewhere else, though (not in game config, it seems). 20180912 19:29:08< vn971> zookeeper: > healing amount on a unit variable -- is the healing value readable/writeable anywhere except the long WML tags? 20180912 19:30:32< zookeeper> nope. directly modifying the unit.abilities.heals.amount (or whatever it was called) was what i meant. 20180912 19:31:33< vn971> zookeeper: ok.. 20180912 19:52:04-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180912 19:52:10-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180912 19:52:55-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180912 19:53:10-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180912 19:53:41-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit] 20180912 19:53:56-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180912 19:54:28-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit] 20180912 19:54:45-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180912 19:55:14-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit] 20180912 19:55:39-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180912 19:56:01-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit] 20180912 19:56:22-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180912 19:56:50-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit] 20180912 20:27:17<+wesdiscordbot> Hi. (again lol) 20180912 20:27:50<+wesdiscordbot> What's up with all the "cfg" and "_cfg" and "__cfg" literal stuff when programming in Lua for Wesnoth? 20180912 20:28:12<+wesdiscordbot> I see it everywhere, but I can't find the reason. Could anybody explain it to me? 20180912 20:28:50< Ravana_> cfg is normally used as local variable representing wml tag content 20180912 20:28:54< Ravana_> haven't seen _cfg 20180912 20:29:19-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180912 20:29:27< Ravana_> and __cfg has wml table representation of some userdata objects 20180912 20:30:25<+wesdiscordbot> About cfg being used as local tag content. How does that work? 20180912 20:31:27<+wesdiscordbot> Like... Would one go when defining a user function: 20180912 20:31:30< Ravana_> actionWML tag is Lua function, which has parameter (usually cfg) that contains everything that is inside that tag 20180912 20:32:38<+wesdiscordbot> function wesnoth.wml_actions.whatever(cfg) do local a = cfg end 20180912 20:32:51<+wesdiscordbot> Something like that? And then act on the a variable? 20180912 20:33:59< Ravana_> yes, with slightly different syntax, example https://github.com/ProditorMagnus/Ageless-for-1-14/blob/master/lua/preload.lua#L55 20180912 20:34:26< Ravana_> meaning no "do" 20180912 20:34:59<+wesdiscordbot> I understand. Mostly. 20180912 20:35:13<+wesdiscordbot> How about having two "cfg" parameters? How would one make use of that? 20180912 20:35:20<+wesdiscordbot> Or more? 20180912 20:35:49< Ravana_> when called from WML, only first is used 20180912 20:36:04<+wesdiscordbot> Ah. I get it now. 20180912 20:36:09< Ravana_> when you call it as Lua function, you can include more parameters 20180912 20:36:33<+wesdiscordbot> Another thing: So how would you sort of connect that cfg parameter with a tag that you can insert in WML? 20180912 20:36:57< Ravana_> by having correct function name 20180912 20:37:01<+wesdiscordbot> Like the way in [message] the "speaker" attribute is connected to some cfg thing. 20180912 20:37:42<+wesdiscordbot> Does it relate to the variable name in which is assigned to cfg? 20180912 20:37:45< Ravana_> that function from last link is called with https://github.com/ProditorMagnus/Ageless-for-1-14/blob/master/data/era_events/changelogs.cfg#L66 20180912 20:38:48< Ravana_> cfg contains wml table with all tables and keys that you put in tag 20180912 20:39:12<+wesdiscordbot> Oh@ 20180912 20:39:19<+wesdiscordbot> Now I understand. 20180912 20:40:01<+wesdiscordbot> So then to access some part of cfg in a tag that has 10 attributes, and you want to get to the fifth attribute that was called, you'd go local a = cfg[5]? 20180912 20:40:37< Ravana_> you could, but that might give you unexpected value 20180912 20:40:45< Ravana_> better to ask keys by name 20180912 20:40:50<+wesdiscordbot> How so? 20180912 20:41:26< Ravana_> I think in some context wml keys are sorted 20180912 20:41:41<+wesdiscordbot> Going.. 20180912 20:43:06< Ravana_> you can create simple tag that saves its parameter to public Lua variable, then you can investigate it in lua console 20180912 20:43:38<+wesdiscordbot> Oh sure. Thanks for the help. I'll come back if something isn't clear. 20180912 21:03:40<+wesdiscordbot> While writing that function, is there any specific statement that I need inside the function wesnoth.wml_actions.test_lua_param(cfg) thing? 20180912 21:08:01<+wesdiscordbot> Yeah. I could really use a little help here in understanding lua and it's cfg literal. 20180912 21:10:13< Ravana_> just statement of "something = cfg" 20180912 21:10:37<+wesdiscordbot> Okay I went: 20180912 21:10:55<+wesdiscordbot> [test_lua_param] fun=1000 [/test_lua_param] 20180912 21:10:58<+wesdiscordbot> It didn't log. 20180912 21:11:03<+wesdiscordbot> Anything. 20180912 21:12:15<+wesdiscordbot> Okay. I took a look at Alarantalara's animation.lua file. I see that if you go cfg.parameter_name you can request a specific parameter. Am I right? 20180912 21:12:26< Ravana_> yes 20180912 21:12:55< Ravana_> and unless you add logging to your tag implementation, it won't log anything 20180912 21:13:59<+wesdiscordbot> Yes. Okay. Thanks. 20180912 21:17:26< vn971> OK, new add-on is out :-) 20180912 21:17:53< vn971> Named "Less Random", it increases HP and strikes for all units, making hits somewhat more predictable. 20180912 21:18:43<+wesdiscordbot> So it doesn't change luck whatsoever? 20180912 21:19:25<+wesdiscordbot> {FORCE_CHANCE_TO_HIT} or something like that could make luck forced. 20180912 21:20:35<+wesdiscordbot> the only thing that does is forces a hit percentage 20180912 21:20:38<+wesdiscordbot> doesn't change rng 20180912 21:20:49<+wesdiscordbot> That's what I meant. 20180912 21:20:55<+wesdiscordbot> I need to speak clearer. 20180912 21:21:26<+wesdiscordbot> I think what vn971 is getting at is that with more hp and strikes, you get closer to the actual distribution of dmg you expect 20180912 21:21:47<+wesdiscordbot> Go on? 20180912 21:21:48<+wesdiscordbot> whereas with small hp values and low strike numbers the variance for each specific round of attacks is very high 20180912 21:21:58< vn971> exactly! 20180912 21:22:19<+wesdiscordbot> I see your purpose now, vn971. 20180912 21:23:06< vn971> for example, if you have 4 strikes, then getting only half of your expected damage (1 strike out of 4 on 50% terrain for example) is very likely. However, doing as low as 250 hits out of 1000 is almost impossible. 20180912 21:23:40< vn971> The default multiplication factor is 3 though, which still leaves something for luck, but much less. 20180912 21:23:49< vn971> It's configurable per-game. 20180912 21:24:03<+wesdiscordbot> oh? 20180912 21:24:09<+wesdiscordbot> nice that you made it configurable 20180912 21:25:23<+wesdiscordbot> although 20180912 21:25:30<+wesdiscordbot> I wonder what effect that'll have on the balance of units like thunderers 20180912 21:25:34<+wesdiscordbot> or charging units 20180912 21:27:35< vn971> @Yumi it changes a lot. Poison, charge, thunderers -- all of them. Even the more common units will behave differently in fact. The player has to adapt to the new chances to play at maximum effeciency. 20180912 21:28:23-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20180912 21:28:35<+wesdiscordbot> hmm yah poison would be much less effective now 20180912 21:29:24< vn971> Also, equally important, some units can be very hard to take out properly. Previously, you could make one attack, see how it goes and decide whether you want to push further or back off. Now, since the chances are more smoothened, you better plan in advance.. (And you actually _can_ plan in advance, if you're careful enough.) 20180912 21:30:11< vn971> @Yumi actually both poison and healing are up-scaled as well, so poison becomes *more* effective because you'll never miss. 20180912 21:30:21<+wesdiscordbot> oh you scaled the poison? 20180912 21:30:26<+wesdiscordbot> okay 20180912 21:31:18< vn971> @Yumi not directly, but yes. I'm downscaling HP before "turn refresh", then I allow healing and poison to happen, then I upscale it back after healing is complete ("turn refresh"). 20180912 21:32:14<+wesdiscordbot> ah, so you used a trick as opposed to just directly scaling them 20180912 21:32:44< vn971> I have hopes that some tricky rules like Ageless-es "bleeding" will still work (and scale), but who am I kidding, _something_ will break regardless. 20180912 21:32:44<+wesdiscordbot> well, with more strikes 20180912 21:32:59<+wesdiscordbot> I guess that necessitates using more acceleration on animations 20180912 21:34:12< vn971> @Yumi haven't thought of that, probably true. Though wesnoth probably can speed-up this thing itself when it sees a huge number of strikes. It was OK speed for me when I tested it (though I'm using x16). 20180912 21:34:59<+wesdiscordbot> although one more problem with more strikes/hp is that the ai/engine isn't built to handle it that well, so it would probably make damage calculations and ai turns slower 20180912 21:37:15< vn971> @Yumi: yes, very much so. AI doesn't like high HP and high strikes count. 20180912 21:43:27-!- iwaim [~iwaim@rasteenie.alib.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20180912 21:51:14-!- iwaim [~iwaim@rasteenie.alib.jp] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180912 22:04:12<+wesdiscordbot> How about making a custom AI? 20180912 22:04:42<+wesdiscordbot> With its CAs wired differently to accomodate your new randomness? 20180912 22:39:09-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180912 23:13:48-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20180912 23:44:01-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180912 23:51:26-!- celmin|away is now known as celticminstrel --- Log closed Thu Sep 13 00:00:48 2018