--- Log opened Tue Sep 25 00:00:47 2018
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20180925 05:33:43< vn971> Soliton: I tried to play out with Wesband a bit, but it feels pretty hard to port as it uses tags I've never encountered for (f.e.[generator]). The wiki does not have this tag anymore as well. I guess I must limit my scope to 1.12+ as these are the only add-ons I have real chance at "porting".
20180925 07:51:36< Soliton> vn971: https://wiki.wesnoth.org/MapGeneratorWML#.5Bgenerator.5D
20180925 07:53:33< Soliton> i did have the impression that the author has put some serious thought into the design so it shouldn't be too disorganized. nevertheless i have no clue how much needs to be done of course.
20180925 08:14:40< vn971> is there a tool that "formats" WML uniformly BTW? Uses a uniform number of spaces around "=", converts spaces to tabs (or the other way around), indents [tag]-s and their contents appropriately etc?  (I guess last one should be hard though as macros can break syntax, be hard to analyze.)
20180925 08:23:47< Soliton> there's wmlindent for the indentation.
20180925 08:24:13< Soliton> data/tools/wmlindent
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20180925 09:11:43< hk238> hi
20180925 09:18:37< vn971> hi
20180925 09:36:39< hk238> thinking about making a map for creepwars, I'll post it in the thread, so you can include it if it's good enough
20180925 09:36:40< hk238> :D
20180925 09:41:16< vn971> hk238: be aware though that I'm very minimalistic by nature, so if there's a lot of new concepts, you may end up having to fork. Or better to say, I can't promise anything.
20180925 09:41:36< hk238> sure :d
20180925 09:42:08< vn971> that being said, Afterlife fork is played relatively often in MP, so a fork could make sense to you (and I don't mind at all as well).
20180925 09:47:28< hk238> right I could do a fork if I'd get around to making some bigger changes, but as long as it's just one map forking seems a bit much :D
20180925 09:48:54< hk238> but even if I did fork, you could still merge features that you like into the main branch
20180925 09:52:21< vn971> hk238: yeah if it's a map then I'm all in favor of adding it.) The principle is the same as with Tondo-s map: if it'll kept being used I'll just remove "experimental/beta" flag and make it mainstream. If in doubt, I'll just leave under the flag.
20180925 09:52:58< vn971> Tondo-s map is not actively used though.:( Not sure how many players updated to the latest version, probably not everyone.
20180925 09:53:40< vn971> I think the problem with it was that it didn't add a lot of value to the game. Basically the same "wide" map with just a few villages added. Additional guards don't change the game balance so they can be ignored.
20180925 09:54:37< vn971> I guess additional guards could make agressive blocking strategy harder though. But since it's a rare strategy, not a lot of players noticed.
20180925 10:01:47< hk238> hmm I think this version isn't very good I think I'll try again later :d
20180925 10:08:54< vn971> speaking of which, I wanted to alter my "middle"/"snow" version a bit.
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20180925 20:26:47< hk238> think I'll try and do a fork of creepwars, but at least currently it might be a little too complicated for my lua skills or lack of rather
20180925 20:26:47< hk238> :D
20180925 20:32:31< Ravana_> 0.2.x creep war didn't use Lua
20180925 20:32:40< hk238> oh? :d
20180925 20:32:52< Ravana_> I did my changes on that version years ago
20180925 20:33:28< vn971> Ravana_: 0.3.5 didn't have Lua as well.
20180925 20:33:52< vn971> It had programming on WML though - but no Lua.
20180925 20:34:11< hk238> I'd like to see an inventory system of some sort, the possibility to pick a set of creeps that will spawn on yourside (like each leader can select from some package what type of creeps will spawn on their behalf)
20180925 20:34:39< vn971> hk238: if you want to just change the map, I'll show you the diff that added Tondo-s map, it's fairly easy (and no Lua needed).
20180925 20:34:53< hk238> and in general try to make the decisions more like having to choose between different items rather than directly upgrading 
20180925 20:35:13< vn971> hk238: oh, for that you'll definitely need Lua hacking.
20180925 20:35:34< hk238> I did make a tentative map actually but I wasn't thinking it that'd be the reason to fork :D do you want to see the map? I could upload on the forum thread
20180925 20:36:20< vn971> hk238: is it cool?:) I mean, you can just replace some map in the current add-on to see how it feels in practice.
20180925 20:37:32< hk238> actually I'll just upload a screen shot from mapeditor to imageboard so I don't have to go through the trouble of making scenario files to show it :D
20180925 20:38:19< hk238> https://pasteboard.co/HFzwVbr.png
20180925 20:38:39< vn971> and/or gather some feedback:)  I've found feedback to be very useful when I've re-iterated on many of my add-ons. People spot quite unobvious things at times. // Though non-tech people often propose the completely wrong solution. But the important part is that they notice the problem and inform about it.
20180925 20:39:04< hk238> so I was thinking guard would be placed on the snowy encampment castles
20180925 20:40:12< vn971> hmm, not bad. Moving around with mermaids would be a pain though (especially counter-clockwise)
20180925 20:40:47< vn971> I also wonder if the castle hexes would be OP spots to get creep kills with few damage.
20180925 20:41:21< hk238> yeah the castle hexes are good spots definitely :o
20180925 20:41:47< vn971> also the castle near the mountain could be OP. Just stand there and punish everyone approaching quite strongly.
20180925 20:42:37< hk238> yeah castle hexes are good for most units, while mountains and forests are good only for some units
20180925 20:44:19< vn971> oh, and the mountain near snowy castle would be strong as well. Again, it'd possible to stand there and collect creep kills at great numbers. This can be both good or bad, depending on your point of view.
20180925 20:44:26< hk238> the water goes around on top and south but it doesn't show in the picture
20180925 20:44:47< hk238> yeah it's intended to be a location to defend the guard position
20180925 20:45:01< hk238> but perhaps there should be an adjacent hex that also grants some defense for potential attackers :o
20180925 20:45:35< hk238> surely there are probably changes that should be done, it seems okay though :o
20180925 20:46:00< vn971> on the "narrow" map, a proper play-out of this phenomena could turn a battle from "losing" to "draw" or "winning" at times. Depending on the point of view, that's either good or bad. Personally, I wanted to reduce the importance of this tactics a bit - though still keep it.
20180925 20:46:58< vn971> hk238: would you want to propose it as-is to CreepWars, or would you rather like some local experiments first?
20180925 20:47:46< vn971> hk238: in case of the former, could you try provide a PullRequest? https://github.com/vgaming/CreepWars
20180925 20:47:54< hk238> Surely this could be part of the main add-on I don't need to make a fork just for that.. but I don't know how to use github :D 
20180925 20:48:53< vn971> I won't lie that it's very easy - though it shouldn't be too hard as well (people manage, as I've heard).
20180925 20:49:24< vn971> Never wrote proper introductions for beginners on that though. Only know github itself should try its best to explain everything & make it work.
20180925 20:49:28< hk238> I've a github account but I haven't used it muhc 
20180925 20:49:42< hk238> I mean like I just signed up but haven't actually done anything
20180925 20:49:56< vn971> I think they have an official client that simplifies some of it as well (if the desired goal is to get started quickly and NOT study the underlying ideas).
20180925 20:50:37< hk238> and I don't even remember the login details
20180925 20:50:38< hk238> :D
20180925 20:51:31< hk238> I remembered them afterall
20180925 20:51:47< vn971> There's even a web interface: https://github.com/vgaming/CreepWars/tree/master/Creep_War_Dev/maps   possible to click "Create New File" there.
20180925 20:52:31< vn971> hk238: ok we'll figure it out a bit later then. Gotta finish one small thing and go to sleep now.
20180925 20:52:39< hk238> okay
20180925 20:53:01< vn971> if you just PR an addition of a map, I'll be able to take from that easily I think.
20180925 20:53:19< vn971> basically this:  https://github.com/vgaming/CreepWars/new/master/Creep_War_Dev/maps   if using a web interface
20180925 20:56:14< hk238> okay I managed to create a fork apparently
20180925 20:57:45< hk238> and also uploaded a map file, it doesn't have a scenario file yet
20180925 20:57:58< hk238> and I don't have a name for the file, it's just "creepywar.map"
20180925 20:58:40< hk238> I guess I'll get around to using this eventually
20180925 20:58:40< hk238> :D
20180925 21:02:02< hk238> hmm creating item system seems difficult
20180925 21:02:20< hk238> maybe it would be reasonable to structure things so that you have 2 arrays.. inventory and equipped items
20180925 21:02:43< hk238> and then making changes to equipment would move them into the equipped category, or into the inventory category
20180925 21:03:08< hk238> and updating equipment details would basically mean going through the equipped items list and applying their effects on a unit
20180925 21:03:21< hk238> and each change in equipment would result to an update of the unit details
20180925 21:04:16< hk238> also when placing them into the equipped items array, should there be slots into which they are put, like { ring , none } and the none would be replaced by the item
20180925 21:04:35< hk238> or should it be that the array would have the items first, like { this ring , ring slot }
20180925 21:05:12< hk238> I think it would probably make more sense to define the type of the slot as part of placing them in the equipped items array
20180925 21:05:25< hk238> then it's easier to check if there is an empty slot
20180925 21:05:45< hk238> making the graphical menus to interact with the inventory would probably be tedious :d
20180925 21:06:21< hk238> items would then have a property that would describe what kind of slot they can be placed into
20180925 21:06:41< hk238> or perhaps multiple slots, like, left hand, right hand. or something like that
20180925 21:07:04< hk238> maybe there needs to be a dialogue in the event that there are multiple slots where it could be placed into. That seems complicated. 
20180925 21:07:59< hk238> I think it would probably make most sense to try and first make it as a lua only entity and once it works then start doing the graphical interface with the menu interactions
20180925 21:08:40< hk238> so there will be functions like unequip, equip, which take as an argument an item in some slot
20180925 21:09:28< hk238> also btw I was thinking about the possibility of having a 3rd side in the map, like some NPC monsters spawning from some location not on either team
20180925 21:11:04< hk238> hm perhaps it would be good to be far-sighted and consider the possibility that the inventory is shared by several units instead of being unit specific. Or perhaps they should still be unit specific. I don't know
20180925 21:11:42< hk238> this would also allow differentiating different types of units from each other by giving them different numbers of inventory slots
20180925 21:15:25< hk238> well it seems like a lot of work
20180925 21:15:34< hk238> creating content would be pretty easy but making the system is hard :d
20180925 23:02:49<+wesdiscordbot> <Inky> for some reason in my latest tactics puzzle the enemy trolls do not regenerate at the beginning of their turn. I can't figure out why
20180925 23:05:01<+wesdiscordbot> <Inky> not sure if this is relevant but this is my side definition: [side]         side=2         controller=ai         team_name="Trolls"         type = Troll Warrior         name = _"Gronk"         id=gronk             [modifications]                 {TRAIT_FEARLESS}                 {TRAIT_QUICK}             [/modifications]         max_moves=0     [/side]
--- Log closed Wed Sep 26 00:00:48 2018