--- Log opened Thu Sep 27 00:00:11 2018
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20180927 14:41:46< hk238> hmm do you need to load a lua file in a prestart/preload event before you can use wesnoth.require on it?
20180927 15:02:15< vn971> hk238: no, you can "require" it straight away.
20180927 15:02:25< hk238> oh cool 
20180927 15:02:38< hk238> I'm just looking at the shop_menu.lua and trying to think about how to do this inventory thing :D
20180927 15:02:49< vn971> hk238: will only work with clients who have your add-on downloaded (and the same version) though, so you'll need to enforce a correct version somewhere in the add-on requirements.
20180927 15:03:08< hk238> think it requires defining 2 things, a function that converts the item data into a T.effect thing 
20180927 15:03:24< hk238> and a method for checking whether the unit already has an item of the type
20180927 15:04:11< hk238> right.. that's problematic. The automatic require scenario thing still doesn't require the newest version? Should try that min addon tag :d
20180927 15:04:14< vn971> hk238: if you want to just take a whole section in main shop menu, it'll be very easy. Just create your Lua function that does everything you want. Upon exiting the function the user will return back to the Shop menu, possibly exiting it further to the main screen.
20180927 15:05:01< vn971> hk238: I think you'll require the most recent version pretty often, so it'd be easier to just require the latest version always.
20180927 15:05:42< hk238> I think I'll try first with a naive version of inventory, or rather, no explicit inventory system. Instead just define like slots of different types for the leaders and they can only buy a item of  the type if the slot is empty, and the effect can be generated upon shopping as there's no need to remove the items at that stage
20180927 15:06:07< hk238> yeah but I'm not sure how to require the latest version except the min_addon tag.. should probably do that :o
20180927 15:06:29< hk238> btw I tried uploading the map to the creepwars fork on github but it's missing a scenario file
20180927 15:08:18< hk238> so just to learn using github if I wanted to propose this map file as a change, how would I do that?
20180927 15:08:19< hk238> :D
20180927 15:11:47< hk238> btw do you think I should do a separate add-on as a fork or should I try to make changes via github? 
20180927 15:12:08< hk238> I'm having trouble with that if I have different version of the add-on, how can I keep it alongside the main version in wesnoth? 
20180927 15:14:04< vn971> > but it's missing a scenario file
20180927 15:14:04< vn971> you can copy-paste an existing just changing a few values: name, label location, shop locations, maybe smth else.
20180927 15:16:30< vn971> > separate add-on as a fork or should I try to make changes via github
20180927 15:16:30< vn971> Absolutely how you want it to, but on my side, I'll only merge maps for now. So if/while you'll have a map, feel free to PR. If you grow outside of that, I may be cautious of merging -- will investigate first, try to think how much complexity it adds / new interesting stuff it gives etc. (Though as you already know, I'm careful with new increasing rules size:D)
20180927 15:16:40< vn971> Anyway, hope you get the feeling on my side.
20180927 15:17:38< hk238> right well we do have a pretty general difference of opinion on the complexity issue, which is fine. I'm also fine with committing a few maps, it probably takes a while before I get a working branch. But making this item system might not be so difficult now that I've delved into the shop luas :D
20180927 15:17:46< vn971> hk238: if you mean a separate fork, then you can just rename the add-on directory, rename the scenario ID-s... and that's all I think?
20180927 15:18:19< hk238> yeah that's what I'm having trouble with, because if I have to rename a lot of stuff, it makes the stuff unmergeable :d
20180927 15:18:58< vn971> hk238: yeah sounds cool to me) If you'll want, I can even remove them from my add-on later if you'd want it to be a special feature of yours. As you wish, all cases good for me.
20180927 15:20:32< vn971> hk238: the hardest will be global "creepwars" Lua object, which is pretty EVERYWHERE. On the WML side of things, I think changing directory and the definition of _main.cfg #CREEPWARS_DIR  macro would be enough.
20180927 15:21:02< hk238> so the global creepwars object would conflict with the other branch? :o
20180927 15:21:30< vn971> I took special care for the WML part to be easily changeable when I forked off from the old CreepWars (which was totally WML, and had "Creep_War" inlined everywhere).   I'm not better BTW since now I've inlined "creepwars" Lua thing everywhere :DD
20180927 15:21:44< vn971> hk238: yes, it would. Because it's global.
20180927 15:22:02< hk238> right that's sort of what I anticipated :d
20180927 15:22:09< vn971> hk238: if you want, I can change code in my add-on so that only file headers will be different.
20180927 15:23:04< vn971> or wait, no. I think you can just do it yourself if you'd be OK with that (totally the same actually). OK so what you'll need to change is this:
20180927 15:23:43< vn971> local creepwars = eurydike_creepwars
20180927 15:24:22< vn971> then the rest of the file will access local variable "creepwars"
20180927 15:24:37< vn971> Or WAIT!! We have maps, not modifications. We'll never be in conflict.
20180927 15:24:44< vn971> In fact you can avoid doing anything at all.
20180927 15:24:56< vn971> because we can't run at the same time. Our add-ons can't.
20180927 15:25:33< hk238> hmm, the inventory changes would go beyond maps though, but it would be convenient if I could have a version that was easily mergeable with the main branch
20180927 15:25:35< vn971> so yes, if you could enable both mine CW and your CW at the same time, we'd be in conflict. But you can't, so there's no conflict.
20180927 15:25:59< vn971> hk238: it already is -- see above.
20180927 15:26:16< vn971> no need to change anything besides directory name and a few characters inside _main.cfg
20180927 15:26:37< hk238> okay I should do that then
20180927 15:26:45< vn971> :thumbs_up:
20180927 15:29:43< hk238> I was thinking about defining a new resistance function although I was also thinking resistances might be better off with the armour system from earlier versions 
20180927 15:30:07< hk238> basically I was thinking that you'd have some function that would asymptotically approach some value close 1, like say 0.95
20180927 15:30:18< vn971> hk238: I'll change one part in scenarios now so you won't have conflict.
20180927 15:30:38< hk238> and then it would have the property that you'd get increasing returns geometrically at first, but then they'd decrease below the initial returns
20180927 15:31:03< vn971> hk238: currently resistances go up to 100% in geometrical speed (but their count is limited to 15).
20180927 15:31:49< vn971> each new buy gives -10% damage that you get, not -10% absolute value.
20180927 15:32:20< vn971> So buying 10 pierce resistances rings won't make your 0% resistance be 100%. It'll be lower.
20180927 15:33:56< hk238> or in otherwords so that the function (1-f(x)+f'(x+1)) / (1-f(x)) would have a graph that's like a bell curve or something that opens downwards like has a peak around some given x
20180927 15:35:02< hk238> I'm not sure if I got that right, but basically the current function would be have a constant value with that definition, which would be 0.9
20180927 15:35:18< vn971> hk238: made one commit to help you migrate (fork, should you want to): https://github.com/vgaming/CreepWars/commit/81655523a6470da1f0371d817ab307e0a7a8def6
20180927 15:35:26< hk238> actually I guess that derivative is not necessary at all there 
20180927 15:36:05< hk238> right so I can just change the "creepwars_dir" definition?
20180927 15:36:07< vn971> hk238: feel free to implement)
20180927 15:36:23< vn971> hk238: hopefully. Until we find something else that's broken :DDD
20180927 15:36:43< vn971> but in theory yes, that would be enough. Rename directory and rename CREEPWARS_DIR macro.
20180927 15:37:16< hk238> meep_war
20180927 15:37:17< hk238> :D
20180927 15:42:05< vn971> hk238: huh? What does "meep" mean? My dictionary doesn't know about it.
20180927 15:42:56< hk238> probably nothing, I imagine it's something like a creature that makes a meeping sound. Which would be something. 
20180927 15:43:05< hk238> could also just use the name creepwar with different spelling 
20180927 15:43:11< hk238> I guess that makes more sense
20180927 15:53:15< hk238> :o
20180927 15:53:53< hk238> btw what do you think about a weapon system like follows: Each unit would be defined a skill in a type of weapon like sword 3, spear 1.. etc
20180927 15:54:14< hk238> and then they would be able to buy weapons of those types, and depending on the skill value you'd get some bonuses to damage/strike
20180927 15:54:20< hk238> and unusable weapons would have 0 skill level
20180927 15:54:43< hk238> and the initial attacks could replaced by some generic mock item like "rusty sword" :D
20180927 16:08:19< vn971> hk238: IDK)) I guess games will show.
20180927 16:08:48< hk238> that's definitely a later possibility :D but it would be interesting
20180927 16:43:01< hk238> vn971
20180927 16:43:04< hk238> there's a bug
20180927 16:43:11< hk238> "can not heal guard, all guards healthy" :D
20180927 16:46:41< vn971> hk238: are they really damaged?
20180927 16:46:45< hk238> yes
20180927 16:46:59< vn971> hk238: that is strange.
20180927 16:47:05< hk238> you should observe this game 
20180927 16:47:06< hk238> :D
20180927 16:47:26< vn971> hk238: I can't really participate fully, but I try.
20180927 16:47:33< vn971> I really must do something in parallel.
20180927 18:17:01< hk238> :d
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20180927 19:16:57< hk238> btw would it be possible to define a module for a single faction that could be uploaded to the addon server, so that you'd have like 1 function or macro or something that would allow including the faction as part of some era?
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20180927 21:37:51< hk238> could also try and do a little polished version of Ageless by stripping various factions :d
20180927 21:41:49< Ravana_> random balanced uses such idea
20180927 21:54:09< hk238> yeah I haven't looked into what are the possible factions in it :o
20180927 21:58:04< hk238> btw which one came first, EE Chaos or EoC Chaos?
20180927 21:59:33<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> EE
20180927 22:00:09<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> last I checked, EoC basically takes a bunch of existing units and made them into factions (or existing factions)
20180927 22:00:13<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> mostly from project ethea
20180927 22:00:52< hk238> oh that explains it 
20180927 22:01:03< hk238> also the "demons" in the EoC era almost a faction unto itself
20180927 22:01:40< hk238> but EoC has bunch factions that you could drop to make it better 
20180927 22:02:17< hk238> there's lots of nice ideas in all of these factions, for an example I think the ELE - centaurs is a good idea. Centaur faction could be nice. It just seems a little off..
20180927 22:02:18< hk238> :D
20180927 22:02:40< hk238> EOM - vampires is also a quite well made faction 
20180927 22:03:18< hk238> all the Eoma factions are clearly very well made but they're also sort of.. exaggerated. And a tier better than the rest in terms of balancing :o
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20180927 22:04:12< hk238> Well you get the drift there's some good factions scattered in the very large collection that is AE
20180927 22:04:46< hk238> Brungar is also an interesting concept, any idea what the story behind that is? or EotF whatever that stands for :o
20180927 22:06:05< hk238> also I like the Emperor's guard faction would like to rework that somewhat :D
20180927 22:07:00< hk238> meanwhile.. ME - blight, cult..? How come these are in the same era with Emperor's Guard. Also ME - highlanders is just atrocious 
20180927 22:07:39< hk238> Refugees is also a very interesting faction 
20180927 22:07:44< hk238> although the name is.. weird?
20180927 22:08:02< hk238> but clearly whoever made that tried to do something along the lines of the ancient Greek phalanx 
20180927 22:08:14<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> Lol
20180927 22:08:32<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> if you want to work on a faction, I could use help making my demon one
20180927 22:08:34< hk238> the units have bronze armour and they pose similarly to how the Greeks have been thought to have been fighting, and there's references to greeks like the burner uses something called greek fire or something
20180927 22:08:47< hk238> oh what kind of faction is that? :o
20180927 22:09:06<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> basically I have a bunch of demon units in my campaign that could be converted into a faction
20180927 22:09:09<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> or maybe two
20180927 22:09:18<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> but their stats are not adjusted or balanced for MP
20180927 22:09:24<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> and some abilities need to be removed for MP
20180927 22:09:59< hk238> hm yeah that depends like is it supposed to go alongside the default era or something more like the AE? since AE has a lot of stuff that "should be removed from MP" :D
20180927 22:10:22<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> I dunno!
20180927 22:10:37<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> I don't want them to be too much stronger than default, but a little bit is fine
20180927 22:12:41< hk238> I'm not sure what I could do but maybe I could help a bit :D
20180927 22:16:05<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> 🤔
20180927 22:16:28<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> make the framework WML for the era and adjust stats? idk
20180927 22:16:30<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> 😂
20180927 22:16:57< hk238> So you like hand me a pencil and paper and expect it to be done by Friday?
20180927 22:16:58< hk238> .D
20180927 22:17:03<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> Lol
20180927 22:17:08<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> if you want to help me I'll make a github for it
20180927 22:17:20<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> although probably not this week, maybe next
20180927 22:17:27< hk238> sure I could try something. But I'm just learning to use github :o
20180927 22:18:38< hk238> it would be pretty neat if there was a faction creator software that would do the standard WML edits, that way people could easily piece together the WML framework
20180927 22:19:04<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> without github it's a bit harder to do things
20180927 22:22:24< hk238> hm it's probably not hard to do a stripped version of AE since it doesn't involve making any new units, could give it a try
20180927 22:23:16< hk238> Old era. :D
20180927 22:23:33< hk238> not quite ageless but similar
20180927 22:24:04<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> think that already exists
20180927 22:24:55<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> 🤔
20180927 22:25:00<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> at least I think I remember someone talking about it
20180927 22:26:36< hk238> hm now I'd just need a text editor that allows replacing all instances of ageless with old
20180927 22:27:09<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> vim
20180927 22:27:09< hk238> actually this one does do that pretty convenient
20180927 22:27:10<+wesdiscordbot> <Yumi> hehe
20180927 22:27:26< hk238> just discovered the functionality.. I have Kate since I'm using KDE 
20180927 22:29:51< hk238> the only problem is that it also replaces the link paths to ageless resources
20180927 22:30:54< hk238> 'ageless_heroes' -> 'old_heroes', well I'm going with this anyway :D
20180927 22:33:28< hk238> text editor crashed. There was also a line that exceeded something called maximum line length.. It doesn't seem it's going to be quite that easy afterall :D
20180927 22:40:53<+wesdiscordbot> <shadowm> The line length limit can be disabled
20180927 22:41:25<+wesdiscordbot> <shadowm> Settings → Configure → Open/Save → Line length limit
20180927 22:43:40< hk238> oh thanks 
20180927 22:48:35< hk238> it seems that the files in ageless era don't have write permission. I probably have to use sudo to give these files write permission for non-sudo user, or run kate with sudo. I think I'll find from google how to do the write thing recursively.. Unless this seems something that shouldn't occur?
20180927 22:49:46< hk238> it does seem strange since I can delete files normally but just can't save them with kate :p
20180927 22:50:15<+wesdiscordbot> <shadowm> Yeah I think you managed to do something completely wrong there
20180927 22:50:28<+wesdiscordbot> <shadowm> How did you obtain A?
20180927 22:50:33<+wesdiscordbot> <shadowm> AE
20180927 22:51:15<+wesdiscordbot> <shadowm> It sounds like you ran the game or your browser (depending on the case) as the wrong user
20180927 22:51:32<+wesdiscordbot> <shadowm> Or did a bad chown -R
20180927 22:52:39< hk238> I downloaded ageless era, then copied the folder to the desktop, inside another folder. Then I opened kate, and used the search and replace function by selecting a folder, and tried to overwrite all of the instances of Ageless Era with old era, then I closed kate, and it says that I don't have permission to write
20180927 22:53:06< hk238> but now that I just open a file and write something into it, and then save, it seems to work. So it does seem strange
20180927 22:55:34< hk238> there seems to be 8000 instances of the expression "Ageless_era" so it could be just the text editor breaking down.. But I'll try again and see if I get the same error
20180927 22:55:48<+wesdiscordbot> <shadowm> You definitely did something wrong somehow
20180927 22:56:28<+wesdiscordbot> <shadowm> Neither your editor nor whatever you used to download the era will magically change files ownership to a different user
20180927 22:56:58<+wesdiscordbot> <shadowm> You can use chown -R or whatever graphical file manager you prefer to fix that.
20180927 22:56:59< hk238> yes it seems that it's not the case that I can't write into the files. Rather it just says I can't write, and it has some other reason, such as, the editor not working properly after having too many open files 
20180927 22:57:20<+wesdiscordbot> <shadowm> Wait you said write permission
20180927 22:57:34<+wesdiscordbot> <shadowm> They might be yours and just not writable
20180927 22:57:42<+wesdiscordbot> <shadowm> Well you can also fix that easily
20180927 22:58:39< hk238> yes however my first impression was incorrect, I tested if I can write into the files, and yes I can. I opened main cfg, and added the letter "a" to the wesnoth text domain header, and then saved the file, and it worked. But when I opened all of the files which said "Ageless_Era" in them, and tried to replace them I got an error saying I don't have write permission
20180927 22:59:08< hk238> I'm now trying it again to see if this error is reproduced
20180927 23:00:14< hk238> okay it does seem to have to do with the text editor not handling the situation 
20180927 23:01:40< hk238> more specifically it says that I wasn't able to read from the file, and now it asks if I have permission to read it. I think the computer was busy opening all the files, and the editor thought it can't read the file, while it ways delayed
20180927 23:02:56< hk238> nope it's not the whole story either, I do get this write permission error
20180927 23:06:15< hk238> maybe I should start by cropping some folders
20180927 23:06:15< hk238> :D
20180927 23:07:09<+wesdiscordbot> <sevu> With kate, it did not allow me to overwrite files which were opended in the wrong encoding. That happens sometimes if people use a non utf8 editor and make changes to a file containing atastropes – and is a problem by itself. Kate has an option to allow overwriting anyway, in one of the menues of the menu bar… but you will have a bug and there was before one.
20180927 23:07:35< hk238> oh that could be part of the explanation
20180927 23:07:44< hk238> especially when AE has so many files from different places 
20180927 23:08:26<+wesdiscordbot> <sevu> …assuming If it's the thing I talk about… I also got a big message on top from kate telling about it…
20180927 23:08:46< hk238> I didn't receive such an error :o
20180927 23:08:54< hk238> that would explicitly mention encoding
20180927 23:09:02<+wesdiscordbot> <shadowm> Maybe there's a language barrier here but
20180927 23:09:32<+wesdiscordbot> <shadowm> Kate in English visibly says a file has been opened in read only mode due to encoding issues when that's the case
20180927 23:10:39< hk238> I think it didn't say so with the ones I tried to save 
20180927 23:10:50< hk238> however the search & replace function did open like I think 2700 files 
20180927 23:11:03< hk238> so I didn't actually look at them all, but I did look at a couple 
20180927 23:12:04< hk238> but it seems that there was more than 1 error in this mixture of problems
20180927 23:12:15< hk238> anyway I'll try a different approach
20180927 23:12:42< hk238> I identified that some of the files were in the Frost something faction so I'll look at those separately and see if I can edit them
20180927 23:13:07<+wesdiscordbot> <sevu> in the menu bar > extra > read only mode would be checked for such a file
20180927 23:14:19< hk238> when opening them individually I can save them
20180927 23:14:28< hk238> this seems to be an artifact of having too many open files 
20180927 23:15:36< hk238> (which is an euphemism for running things on a potato) :D
20180927 23:17:33<+wesdiscordbot> <sevu> I used sed for such things with ageless
20180927 23:17:51< hk238> sed is an editor?
20180927 23:18:17<+wesdiscordbot> <sevu> it's a command line tool to do things like replacing patterns
20180927 23:20:14<+wesdiscordbot> <sevu> a common use is sed 's/id=ageless_heroes/id=old_heroes/' somefile.cfg
20180927 23:20:26< hk238> going back to an earlier issue I was thinking about... would it be possible to modularize factions? Such as package them in such a way that you could enable them with one macro or lua function, to include them into your era, and so that they use the addon? 
20180927 23:20:36< hk238> in otherwords if the author of the addon modifies it, the era also is modified?
20180927 23:20:50<+wesdiscordbot> <sevu> for doing that on all files, I usually do: find . -name *.cfg -print0 | xargs -0 sed -i 's/id=ageless_heroes/id=old_heroes/'
20180927 23:21:06< hk238> that would probably do the trick then :D
20180927 23:22:01<+wesdiscordbot> <sevu> (there's supposed to be a backslash before the star – seems this was removed by discord)
20180927 23:23:35< hk238> hmm I think I'll try and do some subfolders separately to reduce the workload and see if that works
20180927 23:23:42<+wesdiscordbot> <sevu> One could load them, like manually reading only the required files
20180927 23:27:07<+wesdiscordbot> <sevu> #ifndef MULTIPLAYER
20180927 23:27:28<+wesdiscordbot> <sevu> {~data/Ageless_Era/units/ME_units/cult/}
20180927 23:27:31<+wesdiscordbot> <sevu> #endif
20180927 23:28:45<+wesdiscordbot> <sevu> and you would need to read the relevant fieles for the abilities, race and especially movetypes too
20180927 23:29:45<+wesdiscordbot> <sevu> in MP you can use the definitions of Ageless by itself and can avoid defining the units twice, which would throw warnings in stderr
20180927 23:31:04< hk238> hm
20180927 23:31:28< hk238> I'm not sure how to go about it, it would definitely make sense 
20180927 23:32:25< hk238> on the otherhand, since this is so tedious to work at, it would also provide others a bit smaller package to work on
20180927 23:35:16< hk238> another thing is this preprocessed cfg file
20180927 23:35:24< hk238> seems to be 16mb
20180927 23:35:24< hk238> :D
20180927 23:36:36<+wesdiscordbot> <sevu> you can safely ignore it 😃
20180927 23:37:50<+wesdiscordbot> <sevu> there's an #if check for the existence of that file – if it's there, ageless content is loaded from it, otherwise it's loaded like WML is everywhere else
20180927 23:38:27<+wesdiscordbot> <sevu> *it=agless era, not the preprocessed file
20180927 23:39:52< hk238> I'm sorry what do you mean? :d
20180927 23:42:25< hk238> is the preprocessed file necessary?
20180927 23:43:40< hk238> hmm well this seems to be harder than I expected, already spent an hour on this, but my time is cheap. :D
20180927 23:44:09< hk238> I think I'll try and create a smaller package with only some of the AE factions, although it might be difficult 
20180927 23:46:17<+wesdiscordbot> <sevu> the preprocessed file is not necessary
20180927 23:48:03<+wesdiscordbot> <sevu> What I meant was sth like this, with the difference of it beeing in your add-on rather than provioded by the era itself. https://github.com/sevu/EoM/blob/master/campaign.cfg
20180927 23:52:34< hk238> yes that does seem to be the kind of thing I'm thinking about, although I don't quite understand
20180927 23:52:34< hk238> :D
20180927 23:53:16< hk238> I'll make a tentative list of factions to include
20180927 23:57:07<+wesdiscordbot> <sevu> factions can be read that way too. If your add-on is only for MP, then you don't need to read the units and abilities and all (they are already availaible from ageless), and can use the macros inside your [era]
20180927 23:59:22<+wesdiscordbot> <sevu> uh, I see that ageless doesn't use macros for the individual factions
--- Log closed Fri Sep 28 00:00:12 2018