--- Log opened Fri Sep 28 00:00:12 2018 20180928 00:00:26-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180928 00:02:01<+wesdiscordbot> I don't know what exactly you want, but if you want to wire in a faction from ageless to another era, for MP use only, it's enought to copy the relevant [multiplayer] into your [era] tag from Ageless_Era/factions/heroes/heroes-ME.cfg … that would be all to get it working. 20180928 00:06:58< hk238> https://pastebin.com/Abd3c61X 20180928 00:07:07< hk238> here's a quicklist of possible factions to include 20180928 00:07:13-!- gfgtdf [~Daniel@x4dbc5ff7.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20180928 00:07:32< hk238> yes I'd want to make an era with the idea of having only some of the Ageless factions 20180928 00:08:15< hk238> so for an example on the top of the list there are like factions with only a few units, which also are partially imbalanced 20180928 00:08:29< hk238> you could create a faction by merging them with something else, fi there was such a merger that seemed reasonable 20180928 00:08:49< hk238> then the standalone section contains reasonable seeming factions you could make an era out of simply by selecting them from AE 20180928 00:09:49< hk238> also primeval is supposed to be on line 9 with the note that it has imbalanced units 20180928 00:09:58< hk238> but anyway 20180928 00:10:44< hk238> so for an example, eotf brungar has some interesting dwarves, and EOS minotaurs has some interesting units too. You could merge them into a faction by removing a couple of weird units from both 20180928 00:11:16< hk238> I'm not sure if an aquatic dwarven syndicate makes sense with bullheaded minotaur nomads 20180928 00:11:31< hk238> but anyway could look into those possibilities a bit more carefully 20180928 00:12:28< hk238> all the factions in the archaic era have decent graphics and some sort of theme that makes sense, but most of them are kind of imbalanced or unplayable. My favourite one is primevals, but they're a bit too powerful. and also have only a couple of units 20180928 00:13:08< hk238> deep elves is similar it has well made graphics, although some of the units als oseem a bit explicit, most of the units are similarly and off-balanced.. but they could be seen as having some other faction to the side 20180928 00:13:38<+wesdiscordbot> Sounds like a nice idea. Practically for merging you need to only change the [multiplayer_side] tags which you need to copy anyway (I meant these instead of [multiplayer] before) 20180928 00:13:44< hk238> also vampires don't have the "off balanced" note, but they have the plague ability 20180928 00:16:07<+wesdiscordbot> Problem with vampires is that they have no cheap access to impact damage… not sure if it matters in bigger eras 20180928 00:17:08< hk238> such issues could be looked at with further versions.. but it would be possible to simply include a unit to the faction. If it was thematically appropriate. 20180928 00:17:43< hk238> troll doesn't seem appropriate but it would fix the problem 20180928 00:17:45< hk238> :D 20180928 00:19:17< hk238> modular eras would be cool though, or I've been having this thought today.. so people could make a single faction, instead of a complete era, and upload it to the addon server.. and include a macro that allows placing that faction into an era.. Then developers could work on their factions separately, and era makers could work on them separately 20180928 00:20:10< hk238> on the other hand this ageless resources + ageless era package is neat in that they're included in only a couple of downloads instead of having dozens of separate packages 20180928 00:20:21< hk238> but separate packages might still end up being useful 20180928 00:20:41< hk238> I'll try and do the multiplayer_side thing :d 20180928 00:22:24< hk238> speaking of that even separate units could be addons :d 20180928 00:25:34< hk238> well got to get something done so I'll get started with the standalone factions and think about the rest later 20180928 00:27:07<+wesdiscordbot> It has one disadvantage though – eras like ageless have require_era=yes set, sou you cna oly joind the game if you have the era. having the units in another add-on makes this check useless 20180928 00:28:04< hk238> but you can include them as required resources? 20180928 00:28:19< hk238> at least when you download ageless era it says that you need this package too, so that should work on this one too? 20180928 00:29:32< hk238> hmm 20180928 00:29:48< hk238> what does the binary path mean exactly? Like should I write that as ageless era even if I'm making a separate era? :o 20180928 00:31:20<+wesdiscordbot> Yes, but this is at another place – for downloading, not for joining. Though may not be too bad 20180928 00:32:02<+wesdiscordbot> [binary_path] defined an directory where for things like costom images and souns is looked 20180928 00:32:27<+wesdiscordbot> actually just images and sounds 20180928 00:33:16<+wesdiscordbot> However, you won't need it: in MP the units of one add-on are available in other add-ons, and as well the binary_path 20180928 00:36:20<+wesdiscordbot> and you don't need to read any macros from ageless too, because there are none for the factions – the only ones which could help you. The macros which are used for movetypes, units, etc, you don't need them because the units are already available 20180928 00:37:24< hk238> hm okay 20180928 00:39:20< hk238> but looking at ageless era it does seem like it does contain macroes for the factions? I must be misunderstanding something? 20180928 00:40:10< hk238> there's even a python file here? 20180928 00:40:11< hk238> :D 20180928 00:40:50< hk238> okay I found the multiplayer_side tags 20180928 00:45:09<+wesdiscordbot> TSG has two paths – but the result of the story is more or less the same. Battles may take place at other places and have different dimensions. 20180928 00:45:26<+wesdiscordbot> wrong channel… 20180928 00:47:08<+wesdiscordbot> I think you found all you need? Ageless does not include the [multiplayer_sides] as macros into the ers … but includes them by pasting the file there. 20180928 00:48:35< hk238> hmm okay this doesn't work yet 20180928 00:49:23<+wesdiscordbot> why not? or why you think it shoudl? 20180928 00:49:54< hk238> I just made two files _main.cfg and old_era.cfg 20180928 00:50:15< hk238> wrote [era] tags into the old_era.cfg and then copy pasted the multiplayer_side tags from some folder in AE that I wanted to include 20180928 00:50:27< hk238> but I guess I wasn't expecting it to be that easy 20180928 00:50:27< hk238> D: 20180928 00:51:03< hk238> I guess I need to do the [+unit] tags? 20180928 00:51:10<+wesdiscordbot> no 20180928 00:51:34<+wesdiscordbot> Can you show me the code? sounds like it should work 20180928 00:53:46< hk238> one sec 20180928 00:54:56< hk238> https://pastebin.com/BBeEkLp3 20180928 00:54:58< hk238> the above is _main.cfg 20180928 00:55:01< hk238> the below is old_era.cfg 20180928 00:58:13<+wesdiscordbot> That's how it should look… My guess is that it will work if you write #define multiplayer in caps 20180928 00:58:35< hk238> :D 20180928 00:58:50< hk238> #ifdef MULTIPLAYER ? 20180928 00:58:55<+wesdiscordbot> yes 20180928 00:59:36< hk238> hm 20180928 01:00:53< hk238> okay I did that and got an error 20180928 01:01:06< hk238> it seems I wrote the closing tag of binary path without an underscore, but with regular space instead 20180928 01:01:07< hk238> :D 20180928 01:01:58<+wesdiscordbot> So time to drop the binary path altogether, because you have no binary data 20180928 01:02:05< hk238> yay it works 20180928 01:02:24< hk238> two files. I'll make the 3rd one, publish wml 20180928 01:02:25< hk238> :D 20180928 01:05:28< hk238> so I have to include dependencies.. Ageless_Era ? is that how it spells? :D 20180928 01:08:43<+wesdiscordbot> it spells like the name of the add-ons base directory is spelled 20180928 01:08:52< hk238> okay thanks 20180928 01:12:33<+wesdiscordbot> The only thing which you do not have in the_main.cfg is the declaration of the textdomain which you use. In this case, you could keep all the strings which you took from ageless in the same textdomain like in ageless (meaning the same translations will be loaded) and only use a cusom one for the strings which you added, like the eradescription 20180928 01:14:29<+wesdiscordbot> usually at the beginning of the file one mentions the textdomain, and each string afterwards belongs then to that domain, until another #textdomain line appears in the file 20180928 01:14:56<+wesdiscordbot> (and macros are not folowed, so it's only about the files) 20180928 01:18:12<+wesdiscordbot> As an example for using multiple textdomains, the first couple of lines here https://github.com/Robertdebrus/ANLEra/blob/master/scenarios/4p_A_New_Land.cfg ANLEra being an extension of anl has much in common 20180928 01:21:47< hk238> hm :o 20180928 01:22:49< hk238> let's see if someone shows up to test this, although it's good old ageless era 20180928 01:22:49< hk238> :D 20180928 01:37:42<+wesdiscordbot> Good Night 20180928 01:44:09< hk238> good night :) 20180928 02:19:08-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180928 02:19:14-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180928 04:21:05-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/] 20180928 07:16:49-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180928 08:22:47-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180928 08:22:53-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180928 09:15:25-!- vn971 [~vasya@94.158.103.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20180928 12:54:33-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: mattsc] 20180928 13:06:14-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180928 13:51:29-!- vn971 [~vasya@94.158.103.15] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180928 14:38:30-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: mattsc] 20180928 15:03:51-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180928 16:04:58-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20180928 16:18:16-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180928 16:18:33< hk238> hi 20180928 16:18:53<+wesdiscordbot> hello 20180928 16:23:37<+wesdiscordbot> hae 20180928 16:26:22< hk238> hm when you define a custom schedule, by including macros like {DAWN} inside the scenario's tags, does it result to the standard schedule being appended to the custom schedule? 20180928 16:27:26< hk238> https://pastebin.com/hmAQtxFs 20180928 16:27:54< hk238> this seems to result to a schedule like dawn, morning, afternoon, dusk, first watch, midnight, second watch, dawn, morning, afternoon, dusk, first watch, secondwatch 20180928 16:28:04< hk238> which is basically the custom schedule + default schedule 20180928 16:28:38< hk238> or in other words how to remove the default schedule? :o although I think that shouldn't happen in the first place 20180928 16:29:26< zookeeper> well, surely your {./afternorth_common.cfg} or {./wml/sides_h1_ai2_h3_ai4.cfg} appends the standard schedule, no? 20180928 16:29:44< zookeeper> that seems like the likely explanation. 20180928 16:30:02< hk238> oh that's probably the case 20180928 16:30:03< hk238> :D 20180928 16:30:46< hk238> right that's true 20180928 16:31:05< hk238> well it's okay I think it's fine like that too 20180928 19:24:15<+wesdiscordbot> It has been finished! Now i know every secret of this balance! Behold the power of (around) 21725 cells! #solved 20180928 19:25:35< hk238> huh? :D 20180928 19:27:03< hk238> thinking about making a 3rd version of this old era.. after looking into it EOS - Free Saurians seems to have some qualities which require correction 20180928 19:27:03< hk238> ;:D 20180928 19:27:06< hk238> oops sorry 20180928 19:27:17<+wesdiscordbot> I know no one cares about balance any way but i just enjoy it. 20180928 19:27:31< hk238> I care 20180928 19:27:51< hk238> what are the 21725 cells you're talking about? 20180928 19:27:51< hk238> :D 20180928 19:30:18< hk238> is this getting relayed to discord currently, btw? 20180928 19:30:19<+wesdiscordbot> Well at least i'm happy becouse i acctualy work as a part time game balancer. ;D Well they are not yet ready for presentation (becouse some names are still in polish etc.). This is the total number of cells in excel that it took me to do all of this. 20180928 19:30:26<+wesdiscordbot> Yes. 20180928 19:30:50< hk238> :D 20180928 19:31:17<+wesdiscordbot> oh shit, balancing 20180928 19:31:30<+wesdiscordbot> what does that mean :D 20180928 19:31:37<+wesdiscordbot> never heard of that 20180928 19:31:39<+wesdiscordbot> nah 20180928 19:34:17<+wesdiscordbot> Balancing is making sure that win ratio of for example two fractions is as close to 50% as possible. 20180928 19:35:32<+wesdiscordbot> :GWkazuOuO: 20180928 19:35:40<+wesdiscordbot> this is too simple 20180928 19:35:46<+wesdiscordbot> no fun in that 20180928 19:36:17<+wesdiscordbot> If you think this is simple i just wish you luck. 😄 20180928 19:36:46<+wesdiscordbot> i mean the entire system of balancing is simple and unfun 20180928 19:36:55<+wesdiscordbot> who needs 50/50 if you can get 100/0 20180928 19:36:59<+wesdiscordbot> 👌 20180928 19:37:35<+wesdiscordbot> But then everyone complains and is unhappy becous thie favourite hero just gets destroyed every time. 😦 20180928 19:37:52<+wesdiscordbot> i blame people for trying to play that 20180928 19:38:43<+wesdiscordbot> And i help them when they trying and it doesnt work. 20180928 19:39:13<+wesdiscordbot> :GWsetmyxPeepoWeird: 20180928 19:39:27<+wesdiscordbot> sarcasm intensifies 20180928 19:40:58<+wesdiscordbot> ♊ 💰 20180928 19:42:11<+wesdiscordbot> i know what balancing is for, but i just suck at that 20180928 19:42:45<+wesdiscordbot> so my entire balancment dev period is just "eh, good enough, slap that progress button" 20180928 19:44:22<+wesdiscordbot> *factions 20180928 19:46:03<+wesdiscordbot> I've finished a few courses, and I'm pretty good at maths, not to mention that I just like it. 20180928 19:47:03<+wesdiscordbot> Wait, i have been wrong my whole life. 😐 20180928 19:49:16<+wesdiscordbot> Fractions are numbers 20180928 19:49:28<+wesdiscordbot> Groups of people with a common goal are factions 20180928 19:51:32<+wesdiscordbot> In polish its single word "Frakcje" i guess it came from that. Adding letters to words is my curse. Thanks for explanation. 20180928 19:54:21< hk238> https://pastebin.com/1zXPVqxi 20180928 19:54:34< hk238> here's a current list of factions to include in this "limited" version of ageless era 20180928 19:54:54< hk238> trying to come up with some composite factions (as in the pastebin), any suggestions what could desert elves be combined with? Or Free Saurians? 20180928 19:58:08<+wesdiscordbot> My first reaction was: "no i wont touch ageless its just too big". 😄 Balance or flavour wise? 20180928 19:58:54< hk238> Both :D but perhaps flavour more important 20180928 19:59:40< vn971> hk238: I suggest 3 factions, 1 unit each. Dwarf, Human and Elf. That's it. :D 20180928 20:00:17< hk238> hi vn971.. I may reject this suggestion, after some consideration. :D 20180928 20:00:20<+wesdiscordbot> Pity that there is no dino faction. 20180928 20:00:23< vn971> more seriously though, that'd be beginner Era. The normal should have about 4-5 units and 4-5 factions :D 20180928 20:00:30< vn971> hk238: haha ;-) 20180928 20:00:48< vn971> @Hejnewar: in fact there is though! :D 20180928 20:00:56< vn971> or was somewhere. I think. 20180928 20:01:23< vn971> Pterodactile-s, various mosquitos, a couple of dino-s and the like. 20180928 20:01:57<+wesdiscordbot> Well i do not know every singe era so that is possible. 20180928 20:04:00< hk238> btw is there a macro to include default factions ? I could include a version with the + default option 20180928 20:04:22< hk238> I think the desert elves are okay, but they're too similar to regular elves 20180928 20:04:26< hk238> same units with different color 20180928 20:05:05< hk238> hunter is the only new unit and it brings basically a new kind of slow unit to go with the shaman 20180928 20:05:15< hk238> so maybe it's not possible to include them in a reasonable way 20180928 20:14:40< hk238> hmm actually EOS - Trithra has Dwarvish Crossbowman which might be a good candidate to replace thunderer with in the dwarven composite faction just to avoid duplicity with knalgans 20180928 20:30:58< hk238> well this version will soon be done.. I'm not sure if anyone is interested in this. Basically the dwarves will be called "Grizzly beards" (which will be renamed later) 20180928 20:31:48< hk238> and contain Knalgan fighter, guardsman, Eos dwarvis crossbowman, eotf council member, clockwork golem soldier, me refugees focul 20180928 20:32:22< hk238> Free Saurians will include augur instead of mage, and as an extra unit minotaur gore 20180928 20:32:23< hk238> :D 20180928 20:44:30< hk238> though that leaves the dwarves without a scout 20180928 20:45:08<+wesdiscordbot> I just dont feel these factions. So its very hard for me to make comments on them. 20180928 20:50:42< hk238> just uploaded it to the add-on server if you want to take a look called "old era" 20180928 20:50:43< hk238> :D 20180928 20:51:43< hk238> currently aragwaithi, dwarves, and saurians would need 1-2 more units 20180928 21:58:20-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20180928 22:07:47-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180928 22:24:44-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180928 22:24:50-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180928 22:32:18< hk238> hmm could also consider defining some custom unit :D 20180928 22:58:48-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180928 22:58:54-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20180928 23:12:03< hk238> I think this modified version of free saurians is alright but it still needs something :o 20180928 23:27:08< hk238> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=48890 20180928 23:27:14< hk238> posted a thread about this "old era" project 20180928 23:30:38< hk238> there seems to be a bug, grizzly beards faction can't recruit 20180928 23:30:46< hk238> any idea why that might be? 20180928 23:32:39< hk238> hmm the recruits show up in the list of recruits upon faction selection 20180928 23:33:46< hk238> does this line seem somehow erroneous: 20180928 23:33:47< hk238> recruit=Dwarvish_Fighter, Dwarvish Guardsman, AE_stf_triththa_Crossbowman, AE_fut_brungar_Council_Member, AE_feu_clockwork_dwarves_Golem_Soldier, AE_mrc_refugees_Focul, Dwarvish Scout 20180928 23:33:48< hk238> ? 20180928 23:34:03< hk238> oh there's an underscore instead of space at the Dwarvish Fighter 20180928 23:57:09<+wesdiscordbot> you can also add unit changes direcly in ageless, there's a good chance that ravana merges them --- Log closed Sat Sep 29 00:00:14 2018