--- Log opened Wed Sep 26 00:00:48 2018 20180926 00:23:43<+wesdiscordbot> I'm building a campaign where paladins will be your only possible healers, and Huntsmen and Rangers will be the only units really able to counter elves' defense and forest mobility (respectively) so level 3s are really important 20180926 00:24:15<+wesdiscordbot> @ResExsention @Yumi 20180926 00:24:45<+wesdiscordbot> Also, I think it might be only 5 or 6 scenarios long 20180926 00:33:42<+wesdiscordbot> so horsemen actually take longer than your regular unit to get to level 3 20180926 00:34:11<+wesdiscordbot> in that case you'll have to design your scenarios such that there is plentiful experience to get your units there 20180926 00:34:51<+wesdiscordbot> one way to do it is to offer some starting units or units that you can collect on your journey that already have some experience (e.g. you can give the player some horsemen that already have say 30+ exp or something) 20180926 00:35:12<+wesdiscordbot> you can also offer an experience bonus for completing side objectives, etc. 20180926 00:51:54<+wesdiscordbot> I didn't know you could offer an experience bonus for completing side objectives 20180926 00:52:44<+wesdiscordbot> you'll have to code it in WML 20180926 00:52:57<+wesdiscordbot> or lua 20180926 00:54:49<+wesdiscordbot> I think I'll just have two horsemen and two poachers start with experience 20180926 00:55:45<+wesdiscordbot> I'll have them say something about driving bandits off the road last year 20180926 01:58:50<+wesdiscordbot> in my opinion rangers are just plain better than huntsmen because of the +1 move and mobility through forest terrain. A (non quick) ranger can move 6 hexes in forest and a huntsman can move 2... I think the huntsman should also have a 1 movement cost in forest 20180926 01:59:41<+wesdiscordbot> (and even if they did I'd still go ranger most of the time) 20180926 02:02:43<+wesdiscordbot> in campaigns use ranger 20180926 02:02:58<+wesdiscordbot> in pvp....well if the chance possible 20180926 02:03:01<+wesdiscordbot> use huntsman 20180926 02:03:18<+wesdiscordbot> because you need the shear power to kill something in your turn 20180926 02:03:27<+wesdiscordbot> you wouldn't get a lvl3 unit in multiplayer though 20180926 02:03:47<+wesdiscordbot> not very often, but is still likely even in high levels games 20180926 02:04:02<+wesdiscordbot> especially for poacher because both its lv1 and lv2 require little exp 20180926 02:04:22<+wesdiscordbot> still I prefer ranger tho 20180926 02:04:32<+wesdiscordbot> not simply the +1 mp 20180926 02:04:46<+wesdiscordbot> hm if your poacher advanced to lvl3 you are probably already winning the game πŸ˜„ 20180926 02:04:51<+wesdiscordbot> if you notice it carefully, you found ranger has improved movement cost on most the terrains 20180926 02:05:01<+wesdiscordbot> on hills, 60% and 1 mp cost 20180926 02:05:13<+wesdiscordbot> hes literally better than an orc or troll on hills lol 20180926 02:05:26<+wesdiscordbot> swamps not sure if 1 or 2 forgot it long ago 20180926 02:06:06<+wesdiscordbot> and he has better dodge on complicated terrians like sand and shallow waters 20180926 02:07:45< celticminstrel> You could also get L3s in MP if you play AoH. 20180926 02:13:35<+wesdiscordbot> No1 really play AoH on competetive level I believe 20180926 02:13:40<+wesdiscordbot> heavily imba 20180926 02:26:49< celticminstrel> Not everyone plays on competitive level. 20180926 02:48:56<+wesdiscordbot> sure, but what if you don't have anything else with marksman or magical? 20180926 02:51:16<+wesdiscordbot> how else are you going to pry elves, dwarves, and assassins out of 70% terrain 20180926 03:06:40<+wesdiscordbot> of course, they're both only a little better than their elvish lvl2 counterparts 20180926 03:07:26-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20180926 03:21:48<+wesdiscordbot> both rangers and marksmen have their uses IMHO 20180926 04:49:11-!- wesdiscordbot [~wesdiscor@wesnoth/bot/discord-bridge] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180926 04:49:21-!- wesdiscordbot [~wesdiscor@wesnoth/bot/discord-bridge] has joined #wesnoth 20180926 05:59:41-!- foodtooth [7442b8ab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.116.66.184.171] has left #wesnoth [] 20180926 06:50:04-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20180926 07:23:51-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has joined #wesnoth 20180926 08:17:55-!- wesdiscordbot1 [~wesdiscor@wesnoth/bot/discord-bridge] has joined #wesnoth 20180926 08:17:55-!- mode/#wesnoth [+v wesdiscordbot1] by ChanServ 20180926 08:21:47-!- wesdiscordbot [~wesdiscor@wesnoth/bot/discord-bridge] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20180926 08:21:49-!- wesdiscordbot1 is now known as wesdiscordbot 20180926 09:05:13<+wesdiscordbot> elvish ranger good for tanking (more hp/melee) 20180926 09:41:16<+wesdiscordbot> most campaigns I played had multiple races accessible and you always had better melee fighter than ranger 20180926 09:41:40<+wesdiscordbot> while marksman+pierce is rather unique attack type 20180926 09:41:56<+wesdiscordbot> can complement mages with their arcane or fire marksman 20180926 09:43:04<+wesdiscordbot> so choosing ranger rather than marksman seemed wasteful in retrospect 20180926 09:56:08<+wesdiscordbot> The fun part is that Huntsman gets marksman and Master Bowman does not. πŸ˜„ And mages have magical not marksman. +/-10% is quite huge deal. 20180926 10:18:05<+wesdiscordbot> though tactical niche is the same: deal with high defense enemies 20180926 10:35:04<+wesdiscordbot> marksman is the kind of skill in complicated terrains, where shooters still maintain same level of accuracy like on flat ground 20180926 10:35:55<+wesdiscordbot> masterbowman is human loyalist, preferring to fight on flat ground, you cant really blame him perform his skills terribly in forests, hills, mountains etc. 20180926 10:35:59<+wesdiscordbot> πŸ˜„ 20180926 10:36:34<+wesdiscordbot> when on flat ground, both shooters have same accuracy. while bowman has significantly stronger damage, melee and ranged 20180926 10:40:56<+wesdiscordbot> Well that makes sense. πŸ˜„ 20180926 10:50:45-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180926 11:33:31-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180926 11:55:58-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has joined #wesnoth 20180926 14:06:34-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth 20180926 14:10:31-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20180926 15:48:41-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180926 16:13:55-!- vincent_c [~bip@vcheng.org] has joined #wesnoth 20180926 16:14:20<+wesdiscordbot> marksman is just a super ability, on the other hand, Ranger is superior in every other way possible, even worths 6 gold more 20180926 16:14:42<+wesdiscordbot> but still whenever i see people leveling a trapper, most will choose the huntsman 20180926 16:15:07<+wesdiscordbot> because its a ranged unit, and ranged damage is the most important for him 20180926 16:16:00<+wesdiscordbot> not to mention its the only way for the knalgans to have something that can get through high defense 20180926 16:17:49<+wesdiscordbot> so overall the ranger had to be buffed to be a better unit, so its an option worth considering at all 20180926 16:17:56<+wesdiscordbot> marksman is just that good 20180926 16:20:15<+wesdiscordbot> Agreed. 20180926 16:20:51<+wesdiscordbot> But still, I honestly don't like the damage of the rangers. 20180926 16:21:03<+wesdiscordbot> It would depend on what type of terrain the scenario has 20180926 16:21:21<+wesdiscordbot> If my enemies have really good terrain def on most places I may go for marksman, 20180926 16:21:51<+wesdiscordbot> But otherwise, I'd prefer to go four a huntsman 20180926 16:48:52-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has joined #wesnoth 20180926 17:05:29-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180926 17:46:03<+wesdiscordbot> @skeptical_troll good point, it's not enough to just multiply the primes. I needed to check the prime factorization and use the max count for each prime, in other words Least Common Multiple 20180926 17:46:50<+wesdiscordbot> Hello, I just finished Sceptre of Fire and I want to write like, a full-blown review/feedback for its improvement (like, while I was playing I have like 4 pages of feedback) Where could I write such a thing all together, since not everything is scenario-based? (forums probably but where exactly) 20180926 17:47:34<+wesdiscordbot> If recalling wasnt 20g no one will use it. (If you have healers.) 20180926 17:52:30<+wesdiscordbot> @Thorlar I think you are not able to make new threads in the Mainline Feedback forum. So probably Users' Forum. 20180926 17:55:25<+wesdiscordbot> depending on the content of your post, there may be some question that fits in Strategies & Tips or some suggestion that fits in Ideas. But let's just say Users' Forum 20180926 17:56:22<+wesdiscordbot> well, it's just a lot of things are scenario-based feedback, but the reason I don't want to split it like that, is because I want to mention stuff related throughout the campaign, or between 2 scenarios and other stuff 20180926 17:56:49<+wesdiscordbot> so I go User' forum, write a wall of text, and hope the developers see it? 20180926 17:57:23<+wesdiscordbot> ((also on the question on strategies&tips, there is no question since it is fully feedback)) 20180926 17:57:25<+wesdiscordbot> Yeah p much 20180926 17:57:36<+wesdiscordbot> alright, thanks πŸ˜ƒ 20180926 17:57:55<+wesdiscordbot> ...or you can just pick one scenario to stick those general items in. the campaigns maintainer will see it regardless of what scenario you put it in 20180926 17:58:17<+wesdiscordbot> #ContentFeedbackForumIsBrokenByDesign 20180926 17:58:56<+wesdiscordbot> it's less likely to get overlooked if you do it that way IMO 20180926 17:59:16<+wesdiscordbot> well, assuming the maintainer exists 20180926 17:59:31<+wesdiscordbot> There are no dedicated maintainers these days 20180926 17:59:56<+wesdiscordbot> You just have a few random devs taking care of whatever campaign they feel like looking at 20180926 18:00:11<+wesdiscordbot> (Although there certainly is some bias.) 20180926 18:00:16<+wesdiscordbot> well, the campaign isn't really modular, since scenarios are linked in many ways with each other, hence I wanted to write an "contained" feedback/review 20180926 18:01:25<+wesdiscordbot> if you want to cover all your bases then pit the general feedback in Users and link to it from the first scenario feedback 🀷 20180926 18:01:49<+wesdiscordbot> Last scenario surely? 20180926 18:02:09<+wesdiscordbot> or that 20180926 18:02:24<+wesdiscordbot> Because when you're looking for campaign-wide feedback you'd be more likely to poll people who played the last scenario. 20180926 18:02:30<+wesdiscordbot> well I will post it to users' forum and see thereafter what to do πŸ˜„ 20180926 18:02:39<+wesdiscordbot> Since the majority of people who get there have played the whole thing. 20180926 18:02:58<+wesdiscordbot> (See also: HttT Siege of Elensefar ragequit syndrome.) 20180926 18:03:01<+wesdiscordbot> what if there were multiple endings scenarios though 🀨 20180926 18:03:05<+wesdiscordbot> except if there is a better way, after all I'm not really into reviewing, I just want to provide some good feedback because it is really unpolished and all I would like, is for other players to have a better experience with it if someone decides to improve 20180926 18:03:42<+wesdiscordbot> probably link to it in first/last scenario, thanks guys πŸ˜ƒ 20180926 18:03:53<+wesdiscordbot> Sceptre of Fire is a weird campaign for me. I'm always like "I'M GOING TO FINISH THIS" and then quit at a very specific point. 20180926 18:03:59<+wesdiscordbot> So I've never completed it. 20180926 18:04:09<+wesdiscordbot> It's always the exact same scenario. 20180926 18:04:27<+wesdiscordbot> I only played the first three scenarios IIRC 20180926 18:04:29<+wesdiscordbot> well, it's a really bizzare campaign. I am a newbie theoritically, but it is by far the most underwhelming campaign (with some really good scenarios) 20180926 18:04:37<+wesdiscordbot> "Towards the Caves" 20180926 18:04:47<+wesdiscordbot> I always quit during the first handful of turns of that. 20180926 18:04:56<+wesdiscordbot> .... yup. it is one of the things i will mention for sure 20180926 18:05:05<+wesdiscordbot> Except for one time where I got to scenario 7 via cheating and then quit. 20180926 18:05:14<+wesdiscordbot> its just, im sure there are others who have problems, but just saying "its bad", doesn't give anything constructive, so as to improve it 20180926 18:05:29<+wesdiscordbot> i even used debugger 20180926 18:05:39<+wesdiscordbot> so i get what you mean 100% 20180926 18:07:16<+wesdiscordbot> but yeah, will do my best to write constructive (and clear) feedback πŸ˜ƒ 20180926 18:30:49<+wesdiscordbot> @skeptical_troll you could multiply my previous number by 30,240 to get the final number of days (that's 5 more 2's, 3 more 3's, 1 more 5, 1 more 7). 20180926 18:32:50<+wesdiscordbot> I think the real answer is "never", though. since they'd all be dead πŸ’€ 20180926 18:40:25<+wesdiscordbot> Why do you quit at that scenario? Boredom? 20180926 18:44:02<+wesdiscordbot> Fun?! Who needs it. 20180926 18:44:05<+wesdiscordbot> Fun shmun. 20180926 18:48:21<+wesdiscordbot> Back in my day we didn’t have fun! We just had two sticks and a rock! And we had to share the rock! 20180926 18:48:41<+wesdiscordbot> lol 20180926 18:55:57-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth 20180926 19:08:09-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC6558.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180926 19:19:28-!- hyp3rbor3ax [~hyp3rbor3@p57B39698.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180926 20:01:01<+wesdiscordbot> @Thorlar Really? Scepter of fire is my favorite campaign i think 20180926 20:01:11<+wesdiscordbot> over time i dont really remember the scenarios well; but i liked the dramatic arc of it 20180926 20:01:56<+wesdiscordbot> I am not doing a review, still writing the feedback, since I see so much potential in becoming a fun campaign, but it is brought down by a lot of details (still writing the wall of text, will take me 2 more hours probably xD ) 20180926 20:02:47<+wesdiscordbot> its fun, and I see it being a favourite campaign to anyone, but just writing stuff that can be improved, will post it later hopefully πŸ˜ƒ also yes, it has a nice dramatic arc 20180926 20:10:44<+wesdiscordbot> :sof: :sof: :sof: :sof: :sof: :sof: :sof: :sof: :sof: :sof: 20180926 20:13:01<+wesdiscordbot> sooooo 20180926 20:13:10<+wesdiscordbot> who writes the unit descriptions? 20180926 20:13:35<+wesdiscordbot> they are consistent in style, so i assume it is a fairly small number of people, but unlike campaigns, their author is not clearly stated 20180926 20:20:03<+wesdiscordbot> Writing all this hour... missclick closed tab and I hadn't saved draft 20180926 20:20:12<+wesdiscordbot> :bowman: πŸ”« time to rewrite for hours 20180926 20:20:22-!- kitsunenokenja [~kitsunech@68.91.220.96] has joined #wesnoth 20180926 20:20:24<+wesdiscordbot> that's what you get for writing in browser 20180926 20:20:32<+wesdiscordbot> write in text editor πŸ˜ƒ 20180926 20:20:35<+wesdiscordbot> but I can't preview it otherwise 20180926 20:20:41<+wesdiscordbot> but you are right 20180926 20:20:53<+wesdiscordbot> I will write it there, then copypaste and preview and play with BBcode after fully finished 20180926 20:21:02<+wesdiscordbot> i also only learned that lesson after harsh mistakes 20180926 20:21:33<+wesdiscordbot> still feelsbad 😦 but rip to the text u wrote too 20180926 20:22:36<+wesdiscordbot> ah well, one more time, its just 2 hours lost, could be worse 20180926 20:22:42<+wesdiscordbot> πŸ˜„ 20180926 20:25:49-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180926 20:27:45-!- HeyCitizen [~HeyCitize@sttrpq3809w-lp130-05-69-156-204-156.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #wesnoth 20180926 20:28:07-!- HeyCitizen_ [~HeyCitize@199.229.249.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180926 20:38:47-!- HeyCitizen [~HeyCitize@sttrpq3809w-lp130-05-69-156-204-156.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in] 20180926 20:40:32-!- HeyCitizen [HeyCitizen@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/heycitizen] has joined #wesnoth 20180926 20:50:03<+wesdiscordbot> btw, the "Alternative victory objective" 20180926 20:50:11<+wesdiscordbot> is it like, possible by default in campaigns? 20180926 20:50:34<+wesdiscordbot> Dead Water had it, but I have no idea if it was an campaign-exclusive mechanic 20180926 20:50:44<+wesdiscordbot> like, on the scenario objectives tab, not in-game πŸ˜› 20180926 20:51:01< zookeeper> it's an alternative objective in that scenario, nothing more. 20180926 20:52:56<+wesdiscordbot> i mean, i get that u can win from multiple conditions, but having it explicitly "Alternative win objective" on scenario objectives tab, is that possible by default? 20180926 20:54:04 * zookeeper doesn't understand the question 20180926 20:59:45<+wesdiscordbot> He’s asking is it possible to make the pop up where it states the victory conditions display if their are alternate win conditions in multiplayer 20180926 20:59:58<+wesdiscordbot> Or places other then campaign 20180926 21:00:09<+wesdiscordbot> At least I’m pretty sure that’s what he’s asking 20180926 21:05:25<+wesdiscordbot> @Thorlar the victory conditions stuff is just text 20180926 21:05:50<+wesdiscordbot> let me take a pic of what im saying 20180926 21:05:51<+wesdiscordbot> it hopefully corresponds to the wml, which sometimes causes the player to win 20180926 21:07:23<+wesdiscordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/494615991657955339/14.PNG 20180926 21:08:09<+wesdiscordbot> I mean, aside of Dead Water, I don't recall seeing it anywhere else 20180926 21:08:25<+wesdiscordbot> is this like campaign-exclusive, or the other campaigns just didn't make that text? 20180926 21:08:29<+wesdiscordbot> i'm pretty sure i have seen it in lots of places over the mainline campaigns 20180926 21:08:41<+wesdiscordbot> I haven't played much πŸ˜… 20180926 21:08:59<+wesdiscordbot> but yeah, thanks, you answered my question πŸ˜ƒ 20180926 21:09:48<+wesdiscordbot> anyway! again - a scenario is a bunch of script. sometimes that script causes you to win the scenario. the "victory conditions" text is just text that illustrates, roughly, how the wml in this scenario works 20180926 21:14:36<+wesdiscordbot> (in badly made UMC campaigns, for example, the "victory conditions" might be badly written and do not correspond to what events cause the player to win at all) 20180926 21:17:22<+wesdiscordbot> i like Sceptre of Fire too, good, dark ending 20180926 21:17:51<+wesdiscordbot> you are a person of exquisite taste and upbringing 20180926 21:19:33<+wesdiscordbot> (in badly made UMC campaigns, for example, the "victory conditions" might be badly written and do not correspond to what events cause the player to win at all) aka sceptre of fire? πŸ˜› 20180926 21:19:44<+wesdiscordbot> it has win conditions in-game, that arent mentioned in scenario objectives 20180926 21:19:53<+wesdiscordbot> one of the many things im writing/explaining in the post 20180926 21:20:13<+wesdiscordbot> if so, you should definitely mention it! 20180926 21:20:17<+wesdiscordbot> most of the other campaigns are just so predictable 20180926 21:21:47<+wesdiscordbot> i remember when i first played it as a newby and tried to figure out how the characters gonna miracolusly escape in the last scenario 20180926 21:22:18<+wesdiscordbot> even thought its gonna be bad because there is no way they would get out 20180926 21:23:23-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20180926 21:23:35<+wesdiscordbot> hahaha, i was like "what is happening", because everyone was dying except my few units 20180926 21:23:51<+wesdiscordbot> and they still had land, and after a lot of time, they were dying last, almost cinematic since they were last units to die 20180926 21:24:29<+wesdiscordbot> Are we doing spoilers now? 20180926 21:24:35<+wesdiscordbot> then seeing gryphon riders dying was like: "waitwhat?" and then the gryphon pet flying to the center, but yeah, the ending is definitely one of the best, it showcases the potential of the campaign 20180926 21:24:38<+wesdiscordbot> o shit 20180926 21:24:45<+wesdiscordbot> if this is spoiler-free i can delete the above 20180926 21:25:16<+wesdiscordbot> πŸ€·πŸ»β€β™‚οΈ 20180926 21:25:17<+wesdiscordbot> i don't really know what the policy on spoilers is here 20180926 21:25:27<+wesdiscordbot> I don’t either, s’why I was asking 20180926 21:25:37<+wesdiscordbot> probably best to not put spoilers, i think? 20180926 21:25:41<+wesdiscordbot> me2 lel, tbh i would hate being spoiler on either campaigns so ye 20180926 21:26:01<+wesdiscordbot> i have finished like only 4~5 so yeah, soz for spoil xD 20180926 21:26:19<+wesdiscordbot> oh, actually i know a cool tool 20180926 21:26:20<+wesdiscordbot> i started to spoiling so im the one to blame 20180926 21:26:20<+wesdiscordbot> https://www.rot13.com/ 20180926 21:26:31<+wesdiscordbot> whenever you want something spoiled, use that 20180926 21:26:46<+wesdiscordbot> its alright, no1 got spoiled and i doubt the few who havent played it will scroll to it πŸ˜› 20180926 21:27:01<+wesdiscordbot> yep, not likely 20180926 21:35:47-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180926 21:53:28-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20180926 22:08:31-!- kitsunenokenja [~kitsunech@68.91.220.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180926 22:34:20-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180926 22:34:26-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180926 23:04:25-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20180926 23:51:01-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth --- Log closed Thu Sep 27 00:00:11 2018