--- Log opened Sat Sep 29 00:00:14 2018 20180929 00:23:02-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180929 00:23:08-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 02:04:21-!- kitsunenokenja [~kitsunech@68.91.220.96] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 02:17:46-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180929 03:54:11-!- kitsunenokenja [~kitsunech@68.91.220.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20180929 05:27:55-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20180929 06:04:11-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 08:29:30-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 08:54:48<+wesdiscordbot> <7636kei> And then there's always that End Him Rightly (tm). 20180929 08:55:11-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 09:05:16-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180929 09:23:20<+wesdiscordbot> lolz 20180929 09:36:59-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 10:17:07-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 10:53:21-!- ShikadiQueen [~iris@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 10:56:20-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180929 10:56:21-!- mthe878 [~mthe@unaffiliated/mthe] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180929 10:56:21-!- shadowm [~iris@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180929 11:39:02-!- kitsunenokenja [~kitsunech@68.91.220.96] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 12:28:37-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180929 12:28:44-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 12:46:29-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 13:28:27-!- kitsunenokenja [~kitsunech@68.91.220.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180929 13:45:29-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 14:00:16-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20180929 14:17:00-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 14:42:06-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20180929 14:52:28-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 15:08:21-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180929 15:25:05-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20180929 15:26:32-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 15:59:51-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180929 16:00:02-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 16:02:17-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20180929 17:08:10<+wesdiscordbot> @Kiiviing_Zindaal I meant, the endings should vary in such ways that don't really matter to the canon because no other campaign will reference them 20180929 17:09:33-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180929 17:10:53<+wesdiscordbot> So not things like, Konrad joins Asheviere and marries her 20180929 17:23:58<+wesdiscordbot> uh why would Konrad even do that 20180929 17:24:04<+wesdiscordbot> Asheviere WANTS HIM DEAD 20180929 17:24:20<+wesdiscordbot> He said not like 20180929 17:24:23<+wesdiscordbot> Asheviere wants to be on top, ONLY HER, no one else 20180929 17:31:27-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@cpe-71-68-228-59.sc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180929 17:46:18-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 18:05:32-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 18:17:07<+wesdiscordbot> an ending where Konrad cant resists the Scepter's evil influence, murders Li'Sar then becomes an mad evil king by himself after defeating Asheviere. 20180929 18:25:40<+wesdiscordbot> The Ruby's power is contained, that's the whole point of SoF 20180929 18:41:45<+wesdiscordbot> @Inky @skeptical_troll and the other person who changed their username and i forgot the new one How is elvish theme coming along? 20180929 18:42:41<+wesdiscordbot> @Coagulopathy oooh yeah, how's the elvish theme? 😄 20180929 18:47:40<+wesdiscordbot> i am hoping to update my let's play thing this weekend. I've just been soooo busy recently 😅 20180929 18:48:18<+wesdiscordbot> on the bright side i've been learning c++! it's still all very confusing but maybe one day I can help out with wesnoth 😄 20180929 18:49:33< celticminstrel> Heh. 20180929 18:49:44< celticminstrel> More help would always be welcome, I'm sure. 20180929 18:54:01<+wesdiscordbot> wait 20180929 18:54:02<+wesdiscordbot> what elvish theme 20180929 18:54:41<+wesdiscordbot> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krCtthS0zro 20180929 18:55:31<+wesdiscordbot> c++ huh? lol i wouldn't recommend it as a first programming language, but that's just me 20180929 18:57:24<+wesdiscordbot> yeah it's really complicated. I knew a little python before but it is completely different 20180929 18:57:43< celticminstrel> It was my first general-purpose programming language. 20180929 18:57:53< celticminstrel> Though before that I did dabble in Logo and Hypertalk. 20180929 18:58:24<+wesdiscordbot> i kinda learned c# and java together (which worked fine since they're basically the same) 20180929 18:58:52<+wesdiscordbot> i do like c++, it's just always such a pain in the butt to get stuff compiled on a different machine 0_o 20180929 19:01:12<+wesdiscordbot> it's actually pretty fun learning, i've been looking through the wesnoth source code too 20180929 19:01:24< celticminstrel> It's easier to get things compiled on a different machine if you just use clang everywhere, though. 20180929 19:01:51<+wesdiscordbot> c++ has a lot of pitfalls. if you are self-taught instead of learning it from a book, you'll eventually fall into each one once. 20180929 19:02:39<+wesdiscordbot> ah, i've just been reading a bunch of online tutorials 20180929 19:02:58<+wesdiscordbot> @sapient_n3t I disagree. You're only going to fall into pitfalls if you're doing more advanced stuff. 20180929 19:03:37<+wesdiscordbot> For basic things (what you'd be doing with Java, for example), C++ isn't very different. 20180929 19:04:19<+wesdiscordbot> I am kinda at a loss to respond to that because it shocks me that you disagreed 20180929 19:04:41<+wesdiscordbot> c++ is like the epitome of pitfall languages 20180929 19:04:51<+wesdiscordbot> i agree, even with basic stuff you have to worry about memory management for example 20180929 19:05:22<+wesdiscordbot> well, you might get away with not handling it, but still a very bad habit 20180929 19:05:38<+wesdiscordbot> 99% of the time, you can keep things in the stack or use std::unique_ptr. It's not 2004 anymore. 20180929 19:06:02< celticminstrel> You don't need to worry about memory management since about C++11. 20180929 19:06:42<+wesdiscordbot> lol true, i never bothered learning the new pointer tools, definitely should 20180929 19:07:12<+wesdiscordbot> i think it's symptomatic of my professors learning to program without them 20180929 19:07:49<+wesdiscordbot> A talk about that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnWhqhNdYyk&index=47&list=WL&t=0s 20180929 19:08:24<+wesdiscordbot> Way too many lecturers are teaching C first and then C++ after that. It gives a completely incorrect picture of what kind of language C++ even is. 20180929 19:09:01< Ravana_> I learned my c++ right before c++11 was usable in most places 20180929 19:09:13<+wesdiscordbot> Modern C++ isn't much different language from, say, Java, unless you specifically decide to use its more advanced features. 20180929 19:12:28<+wesdiscordbot> even a worthless feature that you never use can haunt you... when it kicks in by accident 20180929 19:18:27< celticminstrel> Well, C++ is quite different from Java in the way it manages memory though (unless you're using a GCed environment such as UE). 20180929 19:18:58<+wesdiscordbot> Reference counting isn't that different from garbage collection from the programmer's perspective. 20180929 19:19:04< celticminstrel> I don't know of any other language with wide use that use the kind of scope-based memory management that C++ uses. 20180929 19:19:38< celticminstrel> I guess Python does have the "with" statement, and Java has try-with-resources, but neither of those are specifically about memory, they're about other types of resources. 20180929 19:21:17<+wesdiscordbot> As a programmer, most of the time you don't care at which moment the object is destroyed. 20180929 19:21:31<+wesdiscordbot> As long as it continues to exist while it's in scope. 20180929 19:23:21< celticminstrel> There are some cases where it does matter (like UE's "TGuardValue" that writes to a variable and then resets it to the previous value later). 20180929 19:23:37< celticminstrel> But I guess you're right that the exact timing isn't important in a lot of cases. 20180929 19:23:46< celticminstrel> (later = when it goes out of scope) 20180929 19:24:00< celticminstrel> Maybe std::lock_guard is another case where it matters? 20180929 19:24:53<+wesdiscordbot> Yes, RAII in general. But that stuff doesn't really affect people who are new to programming. 20180929 19:25:44<+wesdiscordbot> (And TBH, RAII is easier than alternatives such as using in C# or try-with-resources in Java.) 20180929 19:26:04< celticminstrel> Or Python's "with" statement, sure. 20180929 19:26:42< celticminstrel> I actually don't know anything about using in C#. 20180929 19:40:24< loonycyborg> I found it really crazy that java and C# force you to make a class even for a hello, world program 20180929 19:40:46< loonycyborg> like that alone shows that they're too fanatical in their implementation of OOP 20180929 19:41:34<+wesdiscordbot> Agreed. "Nothing except objects can exist!" 20180929 19:44:17<+wesdiscordbot> Java: except primitives, and if you compare to Integers the same way you compare ints, it'll work, but only if the value isn't too high because we made the JVM cache the first 256(or whatever) Integer objects. 20180929 19:49:50-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20180929 19:59:47< Ravana_> it is always nice to see someone overwrite some integers to mean different int values 20180929 20:39:21-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180929 20:39:27-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 20:53:32-!- kitsunenokenja [~kitsunech@68.91.220.96] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 21:11:14-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 21:18:01-!- claymore_ [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20180929 21:21:19-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20180929 21:29:43-!- claymore_ [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180929 22:33:25-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20180929 23:35:37-!- kitsunenokenja [~kitsunech@68.91.220.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20180929 23:36:14<+wesdiscordbot> reading the chat above, just wanted to say that while languages have pros and cons, nowadays, a language is chosen mostly because of the framework to be used by the programmer, and hence, stuff like memory management in C++ or OOP-focused paradigm like C# or java, sometimes may not be influential at all, since its all about the framework (making software from absolute scratch is extremely time-consuming) and language 20180929 23:36:14<+wesdiscordbot> differences in the end, are negligent to the end-user/programmer aside of the above, good luck with C++ 😃 👍 20180929 23:55:21< celticminstrel> You mean negligible, not negligent. --- Log closed Sun Sep 30 00:00:15 2018