--- Log opened Sun Oct 07 00:00:58 2018 20181007 00:41:59-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181007 00:42:02< hk238> hi 20181007 00:44:13<+wesdiscordbot> hi 20181007 00:51:44< hk238> is project Haldric going to be 3 dimensional by the way? :D 20181007 00:52:04<+wesdiscordbot> nope 20181007 00:52:34< hk238> :o 20181007 00:52:49< hk238> I wonder if it would be difficult to create a 3D version of wesnoth 20181007 00:54:01<+wesdiscordbot> the goal is to re-implement current Wesnoth on a new engine, essentially, so things can be done better with a fresh start as well as so Wesnoth doesn't need to maintain its own engine/ui toolkit/etc. 20181007 00:55:11< hk238> I think it sounds like a good idea in a way 20181007 00:55:58< hk238> thinking about it might not be very complicated to make a 3d version of wesnoth :d 20181007 00:56:37< hk238> although that would make a lot of the stuff incompatible, unless you'd use sprites for units, but like terrain graphics.. 20181007 00:57:36<+wesdiscordbot> Main Problem with a 3D version is that the current images for units and terrains can't be used. 20181007 01:00:00< hk238> :o I'm totally fine with 2d anyway, altough I find it interesting to think about that :D 20181007 01:01:07<+wesdiscordbot> yeah, current wesnoth has a total of ~14k images. replacing even a fraction of those would be a huge undertaking. 20181007 01:04:33< hk238> that's a lot.. :D 20181007 01:05:36<+wesdiscordbot> lol, yup 20181007 01:07:38< hk238> I found this amazing website which has pictures of costumes worn by people during different times 20181007 01:07:45< hk238> http://world4.eu/gallic-costume/ 20181007 01:10:03< hk238> http://world4.eu/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/ancient-germanian-costume.jpg 20181007 01:10:24< hk238> I based the recent vampire drawings appearance on the Teutonic woman's dress in the top right 20181007 01:10:50< hk238> https://pasteboard.co/HHboz6c.png this one 20181007 01:16:25< hk238> Going to do some more today :D It's nice to be up at approximately the correct time. Getting unemployed messed up my sleeping rhythm 20181007 02:17:56< hk238> Hmm I'm having trouble coming up what this vampire faction should be like 20181007 02:18:34< hk238> Should there be lots of different kinds of non-vampire units? Should there be mostly vampires? Should they scale approximately the same as default units? Or should be it that the vampiric abilities enhance their abilities? If so how to deal with balancing issues? 20181007 02:19:14< hk238> possibilities include increased daytime penalties, making all the vampires level 2 and more expensive, or just more expensive, perhaps an interesting option is also to block them from beign recruited, so they're only available as leader units. 20181007 02:19:30< hk238> Also probably should establish somesort of resource system if I want there to be special abilities 20181007 02:33:19-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20181007 02:36:51-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181007 02:38:27-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit] 20181007 02:48:29<+wesdiscordbot> Have you checked out the vampires from Era of Myths? A few things about them … 20181007 02:48:52<+wesdiscordbot> They have a main vampire line and a not so much but still vampire line 20181007 02:49:41<+wesdiscordbot> + some crazy monster + some other kinda artificial unit 20181007 02:51:24<+wesdiscordbot> the crazy monster is somewhat special – can be recruited as level 2 and has no advancements, slightly stronger amla… 20181007 02:51:56<+wesdiscordbot> however, for the vanmpires … they have special resistance weaknesses … which has the one or other problem 20181007 02:52:28< hk238> http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/kosode/index.htm 20181007 02:52:39< hk238> Found another cool website 20181007 02:53:27< hk238> sevu, yes I'm familiar with the Era of Myths vampires, they're pretty good.. I wrote in the thread I started that I wanted something more 'gothic' but that was perhaps not fair considering EoM vampires can be described that way. And they're well drawn too 20181007 02:53:50<+wesdiscordbot> weaknesses for arcane (obviously), pierce & fire (actually, wouldn't normal humans be the same affected by it), and a slight coldness bonus (kinda useless though for general balance) 20181007 02:53:50< hk238> or actually i've just checked the AE version of the EoM vampires, I don't know what the actual EoM line is like 20181007 02:54:35< hk238> hmm one moment I'll check the units database :o 20181007 02:54:37<+wesdiscordbot> AE version and EoM version are the same 20181007 02:56:22< hk238> right but for some reason I remember seeing some wings somewhere but cant place them :o 20181007 02:57:23< hk238> right it's the MiE vampires in AE that have some strange units 20181007 02:57:40< hk238> but it seems mostly a derivative of the EoM vamps 20181007 02:58:46-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181007 02:59:18<+wesdiscordbot> MiE has ajother concept for the gargoyles – in EoM they are just mere statues, in MiE they live during the night, and are petrified during daytime 20181007 02:59:21< hk238> The gargoyle is the mechanical unit.. In a sense Gargoyle associates to gothic cathedrals, it's some of stone monster like statue, but perhaps those qualities are not very well represented in the EoM unit icon. Still to be fair it's decent 20181007 02:59:34< hk238> oh that's pretty cool 20181007 02:59:41-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit] 20181007 03:00:57<+wesdiscordbot> the unit icon in for the gargoyles was taken from some birds in WoL 😄 20181007 03:01:49< hk238> :D 20181007 03:02:51< hk238> http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/kosode/2.htm 20181007 03:03:36< hk238> would be pretty cool to do two vampire factions, one where the units were based off japan and another one with more european themes 20181007 03:04:03< hk238> russian vampire faction is also an option :p 20181007 03:04:04-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20181007 03:04:15< hk238> although I'm not sure what kind of costume history that would bring about 20181007 03:04:26< hk238> here's a pretty nice Priest Robe of some sort http://world4.eu/orthodox-priest-from-armenia/ 20181007 03:04:30< hk238> from Armenia 20181007 03:05:24< hk238> but first I'll try and get this first version done because it happens a lot that I start too many things and end up not finishing them.. and if I get 1 faction workign it's easier to extend the mechanics although it would also be good to produce novel mechanics for separate factions 20181007 03:07:11<+wesdiscordbot> one could give different visual variations to the same u it, like it's doen for zombies, but … that's just more work :p 20181007 03:07:24<+wesdiscordbot> *unit 20181007 03:09:24<+wesdiscordbot> https://units.wesnoth.org/1.12/pics/add-ons%24Era_of_Myths%24images%24vampires%24mistress.png 20181007 03:09:32< hk238> yes although simultaneously it would be possible to bind those into some mechanical differences 20181007 03:09:41< hk238> like for an example I was thinkign about just that with the minotaurs 20181007 03:09:45<+wesdiscordbot> the one which is the closest to the art style you had 20181007 03:10:00< hk238> they could have a trait like "broken horn" which would result to that they'd also have weaker charge with the horns 20181007 03:10:09< hk238> and with that of course go a visual change of having 1 broken horn 20181007 03:10:38< hk238> right that is very well drawn and I'm familiar with the unitas well :o 20181007 03:11:38<+wesdiscordbot> The thing with variations … they are hard to bring into game… you can't directly recruit them and must resort to some workarounds 20181007 03:11:50< hk238> it has good anti-aliasing 20181007 03:12:20< hk238> it would probably be possible to have an event that trigger son recruit.. there's an event like that I assume? 20181007 03:12:31<+wesdiscordbot> yes 20181007 03:13:07<+wesdiscordbot> tough if you want it to be sometimes the one and sometime the other you must find some way to come up with that kind of randomness to 20181007 03:13:25<+wesdiscordbot> though probably not hard either, i just didn't try it with randomness 20181007 03:13:59<+wesdiscordbot> for zombies even exists a mainline macro, to recruit them randomly… had some big event 20181007 03:14:37< hk238> http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/kosode/index.htm 20181007 03:15:02<+wesdiscordbot> https://github.com/sevu/EoM/blob/1.14/units/vampires/x2_Succubus.cfg 20181007 03:15:32<+wesdiscordbot> ^ a dummy unit type for recruitment, which will be transformed with an event 20181007 03:21:21< hk238> hmm 20181007 03:22:10< hk238> I don't quite understand the WML I'm not familiar with how the variation tags work, but sort of get the idea 20181007 03:22:25< hk238> there's an event that triggers on recruit, and it filters for a unit, and does a tranformation action 20181007 03:23:44< hk238> oh are you the maintainer/creator of EoM? 20181007 03:23:45< hk238> :D 20181007 03:24:22-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181007 03:24:50<+wesdiscordbot> exactly, it changes the type and variation attributes 20181007 03:25:19<+wesdiscordbot> yes, the first thing I worked on when starting with WML 20181007 03:26:53< hk238> http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/kosode/index.htm 20181007 03:26:57< hk238> "typotical fashion" 20181007 03:26:58< hk238> :D 20181007 03:28:38<+wesdiscordbot> I don't even know what that means … :/ 20181007 03:29:01-!- gfgtdf [~Daniel@x4dbbc409.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20181007 03:29:20< hk238> typical.. but written incorrectly. And it's ironic it's written as typotical, since typo means a typing error 20181007 03:29:36< hk238> :D 20181007 03:31:33<+wesdiscordbot> 😄 20181007 03:36:20< hk238> Did you also draw the images for the EoM units? :o 20181007 03:36:42<+wesdiscordbot> No. Drawing is the thing I'm not good at 20181007 03:37:14<+wesdiscordbot> I tried to port the animations form the lvl 2 arch to level 2 and 3 variants… but it has some issues 20181007 03:37:26<+wesdiscordbot> *lvl 1 archer, not lvl 2 20181007 03:37:50< hk238> animations are hard :o 20181007 04:15:27-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181007 04:15:32-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181007 05:32:36< hk238> https://pasteboard.co/HHiLNbB.png 20181007 05:32:49< hk238> started doing this image for vamp in japanese style clothing 20181007 05:32:59< hk238> still quite a bit work in progress :D 20181007 05:33:26< hk238> http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/kosode/index.htm , http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/kosode/1.htm 20181007 05:33:33< hk238> those are the model images I'm trying to imitate 20181007 05:56:36< hk238> https://pasteboard.co/HHiVw5X.png just about done :D 20181007 07:43:34<+wesdiscordbot> vamp? 20181007 07:43:49-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20181007 07:44:25<+wesdiscordbot> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vamp 20181007 07:45:10<+wesdiscordbot> (In this case, "Etymology 2", i.e. "A flirtatious, seductive woman, especially one who uses sexual desire to exploit men") 20181007 07:45:45-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181007 07:48:21< hk238> :D 20181007 07:49:04< hk238> I guess the image itself doesn't convey any reason to think that the unit would be 'a vampire', in particular due to having pale skin also goes with the outfit 20181007 07:49:17< hk238> probably would require some more in that respect 20181007 07:49:49< hk238> so not 'vamp' in that sense.. darn 20181007 07:49:59< hk238> jyrkive don't mislead people D: 20181007 07:51:17<+wesdiscordbot> Sorry, I wasn't trying to mislead. I really thought that the image was supposed to be a vamp and not a vampire. 20181007 07:51:50< hk238> np..... I guess I have myself to blame for making the image that way :o without enough innuendos for what's it about 20181007 07:57:01< hk238> the color of the lips stands out too much, but it's due to not having enough pixels to work with 20181007 07:57:36< hk238> it should be like 0.6-1 pixels in y direction and 1.5 pixels in x direction. But with 2 pixels you can't do that. 20181007 07:58:10< hk238> alternative is to not draw the lips at all but maybe that's not good either 20181007 08:00:43< hk238> I'm just concerned with that since it's an outfit for a highclass or perhaps 'royal' japanese woman, it might be disrespectful to label the woman in the image as flirtatious.. Although I guess I'm worrying too much about that or shouldn't. Besides it's pretty difficult to discern how people of different status dress, even after looking at the images from the website,they still look very similar 20181007 08:05:32<+wesdiscordbot> Umm... 20181007 08:13:58<+wesdiscordbot> 十二単 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C5%ABnihitoe 20181007 08:20:57<+wesdiscordbot> 小袖 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosode 20181007 08:22:44<+wesdiscordbot> Hmm, it looks like Finnish Wikipedia has more details about it than the English version. (Both I and hk238 are native Finnish speakers.) 20181007 08:22:45<+wesdiscordbot> https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosode 20181007 08:24:05< hk238> :o 20181007 08:25:08< hk238> it might not be so readily apparent but in the image there are 3 layers for the sleeves, the robe underneath has 3 layers, and on top of there's 2 layers of red cloth, and then there's a purple cloak on the backside, but it's hardly visible in the image 20181007 08:25:28< hk238> so what I mean is that there are separate layers which have a similar color 20181007 08:26:08< hk238> there's one with darker red and one with a bit bluer and lighter red, and there's two colors for white, one that is cool and then there's the peach color rather than white 20181007 08:29:34< hk238> well to be more specific there's actually 3 different things with red color, but I think the shade is sort of the same for 2 of them, it's just that one of them is darker 20181007 08:29:52< hk238> the cloth that's over the shoulders appears darker than the one that goes over the arms 20181007 08:30:08< hk238> and then the narrowly visible blueish red cloth is clearly distinct in terms of coloring 20181007 08:30:16< hk238> well.. clearly and clearly.. but anyway so 20181007 08:30:18< hk238> :D 20181007 09:11:38< hk238> trying to draw another this is really hard 20181007 09:12:19< hk238> https://pasteboard.co/HHkd1Gf.png 20181007 09:12:21< hk238> what I got so far 20181007 10:28:30< hk238> https://pasteboard.co/HHkHUWA.png 20181007 10:28:37< hk238> think it turned out okay :D 20181007 10:29:26< hk238> http://world4.eu/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/the-corset-and-the-crinoline-008.jpg 20181007 10:29:30< hk238> this was my model for the image 20181007 10:30:27< hk238> although there's a break in style, it could do as a next level version of this one: 20181007 10:31:12< hk238> https://pasteboard.co/HHkJ2PO.png 20181007 10:32:25< hk238> although for that it doesn't make sense she loses the bracelets so I guess I should add them 20181007 10:39:11< hk238> hmm I don't know they're too different 20181007 11:38:36< hk238> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=48896&p=633938#p633938 20181007 11:38:44< hk238> hmm do you think my reply here was inappropriate ? 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