--- Log opened Tue Oct 09 00:00:01 2018 20181009 00:01:27-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 00:25:01-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181009 00:25:07-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 01:00:19-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20181009 01:03:02-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 01:33:49-!- gfgtdf [~Daniel@x55b3578b.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20181009 01:57:12-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20181009 01:57:36-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 01:57:58-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit] 20181009 01:58:20-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 01:58:44-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit] 20181009 01:59:14-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 01:59:31-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit] 20181009 02:00:00-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 02:00:17-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit] 20181009 02:00:50-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 02:01:04-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit] 20181009 02:01:41-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 02:01:50-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit] 20181009 02:16:22-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 02:50:06-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181009 02:50:12-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 03:04:39-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 03:33:29< hk238> https://pasteboard.co/HHAQP3m.png 20181009 03:33:40< hk238> changed the color of the top I think it might be a bit better for vamp faction 20181009 03:35:06< hk238> could also consider making them separate advancement options or variations 20181009 03:53:19< hk238> a quick redraw.. this would level 1 or lower level 20181009 03:53:36< hk238> https://pasteboard.co/HHAZ37U.png 20181009 04:05:01< hk238> here's the current status of the advancement tree: 20181009 04:05:23< hk238> https://pasteboard.co/HHB3OVb.png 20181009 05:37:15-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 06:13:27< hk238> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=48906&p=633857#p633857 20181009 06:13:35< hk238> rewrote the vampire faction thread incase someone is interested 20181009 07:07:57<+wesdiscordbot> there is an inconsistency with the height. lv1 sprites shouldbe smaller then lv2, which should be smaller then lv3. at least thats how its handled usually. this is not happening for at least the first line 20181009 07:08:13<+wesdiscordbot> also the big ass roman shield somewhat doesnt fit the dark vampyre theme 20181009 07:30:52< hk238> I kind of agree that unit does seem off (shield) I'm not too worried about the height issue though 20181009 07:31:27< hk238> the shield looks nice, but it's positioned in a weird way, it's perhaps too large for the unit, and the coloring has too much contranst to the unit's coloring. Also the sword is in a weird position 20181009 07:31:47< hk238> but I think the crest & shield look really nice otherwise 20181009 07:31:55< hk238> gotta try and work out something with that 20181009 07:32:11< hk238> it might better suit the vampire in the neon red armor 20181009 07:34:36< hk238> although since our national crest is mostly what it's based on, it would be appropriate to draw it again in hopes of getting a better result 20181009 07:34:53< hk238> but for now I think the solution for this is, take the shield advancement line, and make it an advancement line for the other vamp 20181009 07:38:04< hk238> considering the advancement line height issue, there is a reasonable amount of cues to indicate difference in rank or status, so I think it's sufficient 20181009 07:45:41-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20181009 07:48:58<+wesdiscordbot> Yeah, there’s no rule that says higher level units have to be bigger 20181009 08:18:55< hk238> https://pasteboard.co/HHCIL74.png 20181009 08:19:19< hk238> Here I decided to try give this unit a little bit more realistic body proportions but it also got taller in the process and now it does kind of look non-wesnothian 20181009 08:19:24< hk238> so I'm not sure what to do about that 20181009 08:19:59< hk238> https://pasteboard.co/HHCJdvG.png 20181009 08:20:16< hk238> the difference though is pretty obvious in the sense that the previous version looked kind of off 20181009 08:20:51< hk238> any thoughts about that? :o 20181009 08:23:43< hk238> by the way has there been any discussion on increasing the hex size in terms of pixels? And also the unit images? In a sense working more pixels might allow faster workflow because pixels are a limitation 20181009 08:23:48< hk238> just wondering 20181009 08:42:05<+wesdiscordbot> I dunno about that, but I do think the second one works better. Looks more wesnoth art style 20181009 09:06:47< hk238> Maybe :p 20181009 09:07:24< hk238> think I'll try and go with the first one for now unless I manage to make a better version of the latter :o 20181009 09:11:16< hk238> well I don't know it's tricky 20181009 09:11:16< hk238> :D 20181009 09:55:40< hk238> https://pasteboard.co/HHDm3gZ.png 20181009 09:55:56< hk238> decided to move the shield to this unit, so 1 advancement line would be something like this 20181009 09:56:12< hk238> the red color works better with the very saturated armor color 20181009 09:56:37< hk238> dang it was difficult to draw the sword hand 20181009 09:56:44< hk238> I tried to make the pose a bit similar to the one in the crest 20181009 09:57:02< hk238> but that basically means the base of the sword would be pointing towards the perspective of drawing, and the sword tip would be pointing away, almost level 20181009 09:57:17< hk238> and working with pixels that kind of perspective is impossible but that's what I got done 20181009 09:59:32< hk238> www.wikiwand.com/en/Coat_of_arms_of_Finland 20181009 09:59:39< hk238> it's based on this one the crest 20181009 09:59:47< hk238> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/Coat_of_Arms_of_Finland.jpg/640px-Coat_of_Arms_of_Finland.jpg 20181009 09:59:48< hk238> the image link 20181009 10:00:09< hk238> there wasn't enough pixels for the roses :D 20181009 10:00:50<+wesdiscordbot> Maybe give him a scimitar, or rapier? If that would be easier to draw 20181009 10:00:54< hk238> meanwhile here's a formal coat of arms image from wikipedia, so you can see there are differences 20181009 10:00:56< hk238> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Finland#/media/File:Coat_of_arms_of_Finland.svg 20181009 10:01:22< hk238> nah I wanted draw a straight-edged sword similarly to the crest 20181009 10:02:03< hk238> Not that I'm surprised by that suggestion 20181009 10:03:37< hk238> but symbolically that would be significant, since in the crest the lion sort tramples over the scimitar of supposed opponent 20181009 10:03:52< hk238> so therefore it better be the straightedged one wielded by the lion in the crest 20181009 10:04:06<+wesdiscordbot> Ah, understandable then 20181009 10:04:52< hk238> :p 20181009 10:09:07<+wesdiscordbot> I have a idea 20181009 10:09:13< hk238> oh? What's that? 20181009 10:09:23<+wesdiscordbot> Do you plan on animating that unit? 20181009 10:09:38< hk238> I could but my artistic skills are not so great, so it would probably take forever 20181009 10:09:49< hk238> I mean, since there's a lot of units to animate 20181009 10:10:00< hk238> And I'm not sure if it makes sense to animate just one 20181009 10:10:06< hk238> but you can share your.. suggestion 20181009 10:10:07< hk238> L:D 20181009 10:10:46<+wesdiscordbot> Well I was thinking his default animation could be his sword across his shield, and his attacking animation could be the sword above his head. 20181009 10:11:06<+wesdiscordbot> It’d look better as thought it was a movement, rather then his normal pose 20181009 10:11:12<+wesdiscordbot> Just a idea tho 20181009 10:12:00< hk238> yeah it makes sense, I suppose it's not logical that the standard pose is sort of prepared to strike, as far as I understand feudal units may have that type of stance 20181009 10:12:16< hk238> but just for that reason I'm not going actually start animating the unit 20181009 10:12:18< hk238> :D 20181009 10:13:33< hk238> although raising a sword has other meanings such as celebration or similar, but evne those reasons don't justify it being the default pose 20181009 10:15:39<+wesdiscordbot> Ye! It’s still good! 20181009 10:15:48<+wesdiscordbot> Was just my two cents 🤷🏻‍♂️ 20181009 10:16:13< hk238> :p 20181009 10:16:46< hk238> it's interesting you include the male symbol in this context since that type of interpretation is also available 20181009 10:17:18< hk238> as in symbols of virility etc 20181009 10:18:29< hk238> but we're just talking about one unit for a vampire faction in wesnoth 20181009 10:20:21< hk238> and swordsmen indeed don't walk around like that, even if it was the symbolic pose in the crest 20181009 10:20:44<+wesdiscordbot> Yeah, that’s just a weird side affect of discord, there’s a female and male shrug, and it includes a gender symbol with both to make the difference 20181009 10:21:14< hk238> oh I thought you included it intentionally. It was quite appropriate in the context 20181009 10:21:30< hk238> so you didn't actually think about such symbolism present with the issue? 20181009 10:21:55<+wesdiscordbot> Oh, it came to mind, just didn’t feel the need to mention it 20181009 10:52:44< hk238> :o 20181009 10:58:09< hk238> so many images to draw.. but I kind of like drawing these :D 20181009 10:59:03< hk238> also with regards to those symbolic issues they're pretty standard interpretations of the crest, I'm not particularly adept at making such otherwise 20181009 10:59:18< hk238> and I might have gotten incorrect impressions as well 20181009 11:01:03< hk238> I think I should add 1 more intermediate unit for the japanese line 20181009 11:01:31< hk238> I think the 1st unit is perhaps appropriately level 1 but it seems that the highest level unit should be level 4 maybe 20181009 13:40:09-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 13:48:43-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181009 13:48:50-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 13:54:11-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20181009 13:57:41-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 14:16:01-!- gfgtdf [~Daniel@x4e338628.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 14:25:40< hk238> I've been looking at some kendo videos and material online, just to understand a bit better how I should draw the pose of these units when they're wielding a sword 20181009 14:26:02< hk238> also formed some sort of theory about they dynamics of kendo or similar 20181009 14:26:07< hk238> but not sure if it makes sense 20181009 14:28:36< hk238> the basic principle seems to be that to cover the distances involved in swordplay while utilizing an elongated object and rotating it, the movement occurs too quickly for people to react to it, which results to that the techniques are built around there being a relevant component that you can't respond to 20181009 14:29:07< hk238> This is a contrast to for an example boxing, where the distances are kind of similarish, but it just takes more time to move with a hand than by rotating a blade 20181009 14:29:15< hk238> probably super uninteresting 20181009 14:29:21< hk238> :D 20181009 14:30:20< hk238> so there's this thing about pose, like do you have your sword high, middle, or low, and then there's also thati t can be to the right, to the left, or in the center 20181009 14:30:56< hk238> and while there maybe some fixed way of telling people to do it, essentially the positions are fluid and the labels are sort of approximate, so a high stance would be a high stance even if it was actually a lot lower than what people take 20181009 14:31:24< hk238> technically I guess there's only two relevant points which is the amount of time it takes to score a high hit, or a thrust, which are like bedrock of the two stances 20181009 14:31:49< hk238> After watching an hour of kendo videos...... :D 20181009 14:39:19-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20181009 14:58:53-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 15:02:54< zookeeper> you can't cover any distance by rotating your sword. if you're at a distance where you can hit your opponent by only rotating your blade, then your opponent is probably already stabbing you in the face, or at least they should be. :p 20181009 15:04:00-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20181009 15:23:24< hk238> that's the point sort of 20181009 15:23:42< hk238> the fact that you can't deal with just rotating the blade, means the techniques revolve around what happens when you enclose the distance etc 20181009 15:23:55< hk238> just made a new picture 20181009 15:24:09< hk238> https://pasteboard.co/HHFvrtr.png 20181009 15:24:26< hk238> this stance attempts to be hasso-no-kamae from kendo, it's basically a bad stance in kendo (ineffective) 20181009 15:25:04< hk238> though it's probably not very accurately represented 20181009 15:25:28< hk238> the reasoning is something like it's open to all directions, or something like that. But itdoesnt have much use in kendo, because you just have 1 direction to worry about 20181009 15:25:41< hk238> but for a unit in wesnoth it seems to go okay 20181009 15:25:58< hk238> I had to make the picture larger though.. since the blade is pointing upwards 20181009 15:27:36< hk238> but kendo is different from actual swordfighting.. merely rotating the blade (like, using wrists) doesn't generate a lot of energy 20181009 15:27:51< hk238> anyway it's probably a discussion better avoided 20181009 15:27:51< hk238> :D 20181009 15:28:09< hk238> what do you think about the picture? It's pretty quiet on this channel. Where's vn971 20181009 15:28:09< hk238> :D 20181009 15:32:38< zookeeper> i think when assessing a sprite, you should put it next to core units and see whether it fits in. 20181009 15:35:12< hk238> https://pasteboard.co/HHFzReC8.png , here's a current status of the unit tree 20181009 15:35:30< hk238> yeah I think I might have to redraw the armoured vampires because they got too tall when I changed the bodyproportions to normalish 20181009 15:37:27<+wesdiscordbot> looks coooool 20181009 15:37:49< hk238> thanks :D 20181009 15:41:44< zookeeper> besides, can't critique style without knowing the context. if the context has something to do with core units, then you only need to compare to any core human unit to see the obvious differences. 20181009 15:42:49< hk238> it maybe they require revisions to be more similar with the core but for now I think this looks neat and there's a lot of units to make to get this faction working.. so I do kind of recognize this bodyproportion experiment wasn't a good idea, but I think I'll rather draw a new unit instead of fixing these... :D 20181009 15:45:56< hk238> of course if someone wants to submit corrections I might implement them ^^ 20181009 15:49:41<+wesdiscordbot> if you're making your own faction that isn't ot be used with core units, then maybe you don't need to care that much 20181009 15:53:11< hk238> maybe :D 20181009 16:02:56-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 16:37:50-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/] 20181009 16:38:23-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20181009 18:13:18-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181009 18:13:24-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 20:16:44-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181009 20:16:50-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 20:24:13-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181009 20:24:19-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 20:43:44-!- vn971 [~vasya@94.158.103.15] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 20:48:34-!- gfgtdf [~Daniel@x4e338628.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20181009 21:29:35-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181009 21:29:40-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20181009 23:40:06-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] --- Log closed Wed Oct 10 00:00:02 2018