--- Log opened Mon Nov 19 00:00:40 2018 20181119 00:07:30< irker182> wesnoth/wesnoth:master josteph 15b2fda272 Attack Enemy: Inactive weapon specials a AppVeyor: All builds passed 20181119 00:08:28-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181119 00:49:27< mattsc> celticminstrel: Just one quick comment, I took “speculative unit map” to mean what I have called “virtual unit map” before; a map layer on which you can move units around and then calculate possible moves of other units; without actually having to move units around on the real map. 20181119 00:49:46< mattsc> To answer questions like: if I put my units here, can the enemy still get to that village; and the like. 20181119 00:50:02< celticminstrel> I wonder if this is like the whiteboard. 20181119 00:50:15< mattsc> That’s just my interpretation though. I don’t know if that’s actually what was meant. 20181119 00:50:17< celticminstrel> Would it make sense to allow the AI to use the whiteboard? Would it even be possible? Hmmm... 20181119 00:50:29< mattsc> I have no idea. 20181119 00:50:54< mattsc> I currently do, in fact, move units on the real map for some of my AI code. 20181119 00:51:15< mattsc> And change their hitpoints, and experience, and ... 20181119 00:51:40< mattsc> You have to be real careful to reset things to how they were before when you do that. 20181119 00:52:13< mattsc> On the virtual map, you could just leave it as is (or clear it) when you are done. 20181119 00:52:16< celticminstrel> This feels like pretty much the same thing planning mode was built for. 20181119 00:52:38< mattsc> Maybe. 20181119 00:52:53< mattsc> For the AI, you want to be able to go through lots of possibilities though. 20181119 00:53:01< mattsc> I think you can do that in planning mode too... 20181119 00:53:30< mattsc> You can’t do as many as the human player, I guess, but you can do much better pre-selection than the AI is generally capable of. 20181119 00:53:54< celticminstrel> I've never used planning mode though. 20181119 00:54:10< mattsc> Me neither, really. 20181119 00:54:35< mattsc> Of course, I barely play any more these days anyway, except for AI testing … :( 20181119 00:54:45< celticminstrel> One thing's for sure – if the AI starts using it, I imagine the bugs would get ironed out a lot faster. :P 20181119 00:55:04< mattsc> Phew, yeah ... 20181119 00:55:22< mattsc> Well, I’ll leave that for the next round of TODOs … :P 20181119 00:55:35< celticminstrel> :P 20181119 00:56:07< mattsc> As I say in the issue, it would be nice, but ... 20181119 00:59:09< celticminstrel> BTW, do you think you're up to adding the new MicroAI tags/attributes to the schema? 20181119 01:00:51< mattsc> Yeah, I assume so. 20181119 01:01:27< celticminstrel> Probably the only thing that would be downright difficult to add to the schema would be a new aspect or the like. 20181119 01:01:34< mattsc> I pulled the email with the notification about it into my todo folder, but as I said, today’s a bit busy, so I haven’t even looked at it yet. 20181119 01:01:42< celticminstrel> Because every aspect needs to be encoded into at least three places. 20181119 01:01:42< mattsc> Okay. 20181119 01:01:58< celticminstrel> But MicroAI stuff is probably pretty easy. 20181119 01:02:20< celticminstrel> Encoding the "must have either xxx_x/y or xxx_loc" constraint is a little harder mind you... 20181119 01:02:26< mattsc> I’ll have a look sometime soon(ish) 20181119 01:02:29< mattsc> There’s also the new [ai]mp_rank= , but I assume I can figure out how to do that. 20181119 01:02:48< celticminstrel> Yeah, also default_ai_alogorithm will need adding someplace. 20181119 01:02:57< mattsc> right 20181119 01:03:05< mattsc> I’ll let you know if I have any questions. 20181119 01:03:10< celticminstrel> I think there are some places that have a similar "must have this or that" thing encoded, not sure if they're in the AI mind you. 20181119 01:03:12< celticminstrel> Alright. 20181119 01:03:38< mattsc> It’s probably going to be mid next week before I get to it though, at the earliest 20181119 01:03:44< celticminstrel> 'kay 20181119 01:04:39< mattsc> Well, maybe on the plane tomorrow … But the list of things to do then is already longer than the flight will take. :P 20181119 01:16:24< irker182> wesnoth/wesnoth:master josteph a94b4c6455 Attack Enemy: Inactive weapon specials a AppVeyor: All builds passed 20181119 02:03:53< celticminstrel> Still seriously considering adding key-extension syntax. 20181119 02:03:57< celticminstrel> key+=value 20181119 02:04:01< celticminstrel> key,=value 20181119 02:04:24< celticminstrel> Though a bit put off by the thought of how that would interact with the schema validator. >_> 20181119 02:23:17<+wesdiscordbot> celticminstrel: What do errors like "Tag [filter_opponent] may not be used in [*]" mean? 20181119 02:23:59< celticminstrel> Uhh. 20181119 02:24:25< celticminstrel> It means that there's someplace where you can use any tag, but whatever tag you use can't contain [filter_opponent]. 20181119 02:24:37< celticminstrel> Do the line numbers not help you find it? 20181119 02:24:59< celticminstrel> I'd noticed that sometimes they're unhelpful... 20181119 02:25:06< celticminstrel> Though most of the time they seem to work well enough. 20181119 02:25:41<+wesdiscordbot> I wasn't sure about the "[*]" part 20181119 02:26:00< celticminstrel> * is basically a glob. 20181119 02:26:12< celticminstrel> So somewhere I declared "you can use any tag here, and here's what can go in those tags". 20181119 02:26:28<+wesdiscordbot> ok 20181119 02:27:00< celticminstrel> Ideally the schema would substitute the actual tag name that is used in the specific case... 20181119 02:27:17< celticminstrel> Not sure if it has the requisite information to do that though. 20181119 02:28:31< celticminstrel> Maybe I should open an issue for it. 20181119 02:28:51< celticminstrel> Also applies to attribute names, since those too can be matched by glob. 20181119 02:33:18<+wesdiscordbot> Maybe change it to something like "Tag [filter_opponent] may not be used here." Read literally, it sounds like it's saying that [filter_opponent] can't be used anywhere. 20181119 02:34:33< celticminstrel> I'd prefer to say the tag name, but I see what you mean - if that's not possible, eliminating the context might actually be better than putting the glob in. 20181119 02:44:48-!- gfgtdf [~Daniel@x4dbaf8e0.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20181119 03:05:52< irker182> wesnoth/wesnoth:master josteph 1428ee148c Sidebar: If the range icon or damage typ AppVeyor: All builds passed 20181119 03:14:53-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20181119 03:42:12< celticminstrel> Sooo.. 1.14.6 anyone? 20181119 03:42:46< celticminstrel> I understand how people are leery of a 1.15.0 given that master doesn't have all that much new stuff (and nearly all of what it has is API), but I don't think the same can be said of the latest 1.14. 20181119 03:49:10<+wesdiscordbot> still waiting on my tsg pr 20181119 03:52:39< celticminstrel> Is there something to prevent me from just clicking merge Right Now 20181119 03:53:31< celticminstrel> Oh right, I forgot GitHub is broken on this machine. 20181119 03:54:00<+wesdiscordbot> not strictly no 20181119 03:54:20<+wesdiscordbot> but maybe I should ask for EoZ to finish playtesting the elvish branch first 20181119 03:54:53< celticminstrel> Why must ElderOfCheese be the tester... :/ 20181119 03:55:13<+wesdiscordbot> why not? 20181119 03:55:18< celticminstrel> I dunno. 20181119 03:55:29<+wesdiscordbot> hes good at it 😮 20181119 03:55:41< celticminstrel> Excuses excuses 20181119 03:55:48<+wesdiscordbot> 😖 20181119 03:55:56<+wesdiscordbot> oh wait you cant see emojis 20181119 03:56:02< celticminstrel> I can see some of them. 20181119 03:56:05<+wesdiscordbot> b_b 20181119 03:56:12< celticminstrel> ...WTH is that. 20181119 03:56:33< celticminstrel> Well, I guess I'll just let someone else deal with the TSG PR. 20181119 03:56:36<+wesdiscordbot> glasses 20181119 03:56:46< celticminstrel> Like jostephd for example. 20181119 03:57:00<+wesdiscordbot> I mean ill just update the thread when the playtesting is done 20181119 04:01:00-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|sleep 20181119 04:17:23<+wesdiscordbot> 1.15.0 I think would be good to have even if it's just for the sake of showing that 1.15 is still going to actually happen. 20181119 04:18:09<+wesdiscordbot> That literally translates to 1.15.0 for the sake of 1.15.0 since 1.15 is not a thing of its own right 20181119 04:26:47<+wesdiscordbot> 1.15 is the development branch. Which, given that it's been over 6 months since 1.14.0 as well as some of the things that've been said in the mean time, I think it would be good to show that there will actually be a development branch. Besides, it's like there have been no changes. 20181119 04:27:24<+wesdiscordbot> A development branch is pointless without a stable target and it seems like people don't even know what they want in 1.16 anymore. 20181119 04:27:40<+wesdiscordbot> Or in Wesnoth in general. 20181119 04:29:41<+wesdiscordbot> so far it seems like the two most concrete things are the Drake campaign and the Dunefolk balancing. 20181119 04:30:28<+wesdiscordbot> schema validation is also a good tool for UMC 20181119 04:31:29<+wesdiscordbot> Dependingh on how far 1.16 is, OpenGL might make it in, too. (Obviously, the longer a release is delayed, the more stuff can be done.) 20181119 05:13:35< irker182> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Steve Cotton 64b0c2f665 AoI S1: Hint about recruiting a healer, AppVeyor: All builds passed 20181119 05:20:39<+wesdiscordbot> There's no point having 1.15 for the sake of 1.15 20181119 05:20:56<+wesdiscordbot> There's no one expecting 1.15. 20181119 05:23:28<+wesdiscordbot> what would the criteria be for releasing 1.15.0 be, then? 20181119 05:30:56<+wesdiscordbot> so far the closest I've heard is that 1.15.0 isn't warranted because there hasn't been any big, user-facing change so far, but nothing about what that would be. is the plan to just wait until someone walks by and contributes something awesome? or not have a 1.15.0 until jyrkive is ready with OpenGL? 20181119 05:46:25-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181119 06:00:02<+wesdiscordbot> Get a roadmap for 1.16 20181119 06:00:09<+wesdiscordbot> Stop making the same mistakes that were done for 1.14 and 1.12 20181119 06:01:03<+wesdiscordbot> And remember that you're making a game, not a glorified software library 20181119 06:23:27< buhman> what? I thought software development was about adding features on top of features 20181119 06:42:23<+wesdiscordbot> but there needs to be some sort of organization. otherwise it seems like the point we're at now is that master branch is working again, people are working on features and master-only bug fixes, but no one knows when any of them might be released. 20181119 06:46:48-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20181119 06:50:01< irker182> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Celtic Minstrel 8d9d5b7b2d Fix crash if a file tries to pass argume AppVeyor: All builds passed 20181119 07:09:39<+wesdiscordbot> That's always been the case 😛 20181119 07:10:16<+wesdiscordbot> >.> 20181119 07:16:14<+wesdiscordbot> Not that that's really great >_< 20181119 07:17:03<+wesdiscordbot> IMO, it's unavoidable. The alternative (setting release dates in stone beforehand no matter what happens) is way, way worse. 20181119 07:17:28<+wesdiscordbot> It's not just about dates 20181119 07:18:29<+wesdiscordbot> We tried setting release dates beforehand 20181119 07:18:35<+wesdiscordbot> That failed miserably 😬 20181119 07:18:50<+wesdiscordbot> (I'm referring to the original "early 2017" release plan for 1.14 >_>) 20181119 07:20:02<+wesdiscordbot> you don't need a date set in stone, but you need to at the very least know what the release needs to contain. 20181119 07:21:01<+wesdiscordbot> Right, but even in that case "no one knows when any of them might be released" is still true. 20181119 07:25:45<+wesdiscordbot> there's a difference between not having an exact date and having no date and no feature(s) that should be in the release though. 20181119 07:27:07<+wesdiscordbot> that's at least part of the point of coming up with a roadmap, right? 20181119 07:31:36<+wesdiscordbot> Interesting. In Visual C++ 2017 Enterprise it's now possible to essentially go back in time while debugging: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/vcblog/2018/09/26/step-back-going-back-in-c-time/ 20181119 09:45:04-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren@37.171.4.82] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181119 09:46:44-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren@37.171.4.82] has quit [Client Quit] 20181119 11:47:03-!- irker182 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20181119 11:48:15-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181119 14:02:23-!- celmin|sleep is now known as celmin|away 20181119 19:37:37-!- TC04 [~quassel@venus.arosser.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181119 19:37:38-!- TC01 [~quassel@venus.arosser.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20181119 20:10:38-!- TC04 is now known as TC01 20181119 21:26:06-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181119 22:14:47-!- TC04 [~quassel@venus.arosser.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181119 22:14:53-!- TC01 [~quassel@venus.arosser.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20181119 22:16:07-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20181119 22:32:04-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181119 22:34:07-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20181119 22:35:59-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181119 22:37:49-!- heirecka_ [~heirecka@exherbo/developer/heirecka] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181119 22:40:01-!- heirecka [~heirecka@exherbo/developer/heirecka] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20181119 22:40:06-!- aidanhs [~aidanhs@81.4.110.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20181119 22:40:20-!- heirecka_ is now known as heirecka 20181119 22:40:51-!- aidanhs [~aidanhs@81.4.110.234] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181119 22:53:24-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181119 23:21:29-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181119 23:30:27-!- TC04 [~quassel@venus.arosser.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20181119 23:30:54-!- TC01 [~quassel@venus.arosser.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev --- Log closed Tue Nov 20 00:00:41 2018