--- Log opened Mon Nov 05 00:00:49 2018 20181105 00:34:46-!- The_Unforgiven [~quassel@unaffiliated/the-unforgiven/x-8713611] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20181105 01:56:52<+wesdiscordbot> default leadership no, but you can rulefilter it with allies and make it work 20181105 01:56:57<+wesdiscordbot> with some modding methods 20181105 03:18:48-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20181105 03:20:08-!- kitsunenokenja [~kitsunech@68.91.220.96] has joined #wesnoth 20181105 03:46:53-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has joined #wesnoth 20181105 03:47:58<+wesdiscordbot> 1000 people are now registered on this server… 20181105 03:55:43<+wesdiscordbot> Yuo 20181105 03:56:07<+wesdiscordbot> It made the offline list disappear again since they lifted the previous limit of 100 people 20181105 03:58:30-!- kitsunenokenja [~kitsunech@68.91.220.96] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20181105 04:34:28<+wesdiscordbot> guys good news I passed Siege of Elensefar!! 20181105 04:34:37< celticminstrel> \o/ 20181105 04:34:40<+wesdiscordbot> i'm well ahead in The Valley of Death 20181105 04:35:03< celticminstrel> Here, have a digital cookie: 🍪 20181105 04:35:11<+wesdiscordbot> wish me luck guys i must bring Konrad to VICTORY!!! 20181105 04:35:44< celticminstrel> 👍 20181105 04:37:38<+wesdiscordbot> Yeah!! :sof: 20181105 04:37:52< celticminstrel> (Is that an emoticon in the discord?) 20181105 04:38:25<+wesdiscordbot> Yep it’s the scepter of fire 20181105 04:38:31< celticminstrel> Obviously. 20181105 04:38:46< celticminstrel> Can we maybe add something like that on the forums too? :o 20181105 04:38:50 * celticminstrel poke @shadowm 20181105 04:39:11< celticminstrel> And other Wesnoth-themed custom emoticons? That would be cool. 20181105 04:39:39<+wesdiscordbot> No 20181105 04:39:44< celticminstrel> :( 20181105 04:40:37<+wesdiscordbot> If Pent wants it he can figure out how to do it himself but I'm not contributing to smilies bloat 20181105 04:40:48< celticminstrel> Fair enough. 20181105 04:40:54 * celticminstrel poke @Pentarctagon then. 20181105 04:41:35<+wesdiscordbot> I'd also personally prefer if phpBB 3.2 had pushed more for using emojis since smilies are... ugh 20181105 04:41:56< celticminstrel> Hm? 20181105 04:41:59<+wesdiscordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/508863522852175872/letter_and_ale.png 20181105 04:42:01< celticminstrel> Ugh how? 20181105 04:42:33<+wesdiscordbot> Their stock smilies are still the same since 3.0. We use the phpBB 2.0 versions because the 3.0+ versions are still GIFs, which means 1-bit transparency, but they are drawn in a style that really should require 8-bit transparency (full alpha) 20181105 04:42:54<+wesdiscordbot> They are absolute bs 20181105 04:43:15<+wesdiscordbot> And the 2.0 versions we use look dated af compared to everything else in the forums UI. 20181105 04:43:20< celticminstrel> Technically GIF isn't 1-bit transparency, it's "one colour is designated as transparent". 20181105 04:43:34<+wesdiscordbot> What 20181105 04:43:55<+wesdiscordbot> Are you telling me that I can only have 255 colours in a transparent GIF? 20181105 04:44:03<+wesdiscordbot> And on a non-transparent one I can have 256? 20181105 04:44:36< celticminstrel> Yeah, I guess that's the case. 20181105 04:44:40<+wesdiscordbot> (The format uses palette lookup and pixels are 1 byte in size for people who don't know about it.) 20181105 04:45:01<+wesdiscordbot> Well I guess I never ran into a corner case where I'd need transparency and 256 colours 20181105 04:45:58<+wesdiscordbot> I always just assumed there was a 1-bit mask embedded somewhere in the file 20181105 04:54:19<+wesdiscordbot> well i got destroyed in the Valley of Death 20181105 04:54:30<+wesdiscordbot> i think i need to send some elves in the foresty areas 20181105 04:54:40<+wesdiscordbot> and keep my paladins and knights at bay 20181105 04:56:26< hk238> btw considering [color_range] does the color of the min. max. shades matter? Or is it just the velocity? 20181105 04:56:49<+wesdiscordbot> Velocity? Colour ranges have nothing to do with vectorial speed 20181105 04:58:09<+wesdiscordbot> I like to rush the southern undead leader and then hide in his castle 20181105 04:58:59< hk238> Isn't it called velocity? The brightness of a color? :o 20181105 04:59:07<+wesdiscordbot> The function takes all three parameters into account for palette adjusments: the average, the max shade, and the min shade. The values are processed as they are, so there's no aspect about a singular parameter that isn't taken into account 20181105 04:59:19<+wesdiscordbot> You're thinking of luminosity 20181105 04:59:24<+wesdiscordbot> @Inky is the southern leader weaker? 20181105 04:59:31< hk238> Yeah.. But isn't that called velocity too? :o 20181105 04:59:37< celticminstrel> No. 20181105 04:59:45< hk238> I thought so at least. It's abberviated as 'v' in some contexts 20181105 04:59:46< celticminstrel> Velocity is speed+direction. 20181105 04:59:58<+wesdiscordbot> That's value 20181105 05:00:13< celticminstrel> Oh in HSV? Yeah, value. 20181105 05:00:20< celticminstrel> Not velocity. 20181105 05:00:27<+wesdiscordbot> No he’s just further away so it will hopefully take the other undead longer to catch up 20181105 05:00:28<+wesdiscordbot> Don't ask me about the exact difference between value and luminosity, but there are different colour spaces that use different definitions for brightness 20181105 05:00:36<+wesdiscordbot> HSV uses value, HSL uses luminosity 20181105 05:00:55<+wesdiscordbot> cielab probably uses whatever else. 20181105 05:01:12<+wesdiscordbot> "Lightness", apparently 20181105 05:01:58<+wesdiscordbot> actually that's a great idea... 20181105 05:02:00< hk238> Oh sorry then, I thought I'd seen it called velocity somewhere and went on thinking v means that, but I guess that's wrong.. Although a color is a vector, so it wouldn't be far fetched.. But anyway I was wrong, so regarding the color_range tag? 20181105 05:02:03<+wesdiscordbot> i should do that tomorrow! 20181105 05:02:06< celticminstrel> From Wikipedia, value is apparently max(r,g,b) while lightness is (max(r,g,b) + min(r,g,b) / 2)... 20181105 05:02:14<+wesdiscordbot> i am so close to beating HttT i am so excited 20181105 05:02:28<+wesdiscordbot> A colour is a scalar in most systems 20181105 05:02:41< celticminstrel> It's totally far-fetched. Sure, colour is a vector, but so are tons of other things that are not velocity. 20181105 05:03:27<+wesdiscordbot> It really doesn't have any vectorial properties in e.g. RGB? 20181105 05:03:54< celticminstrel> True, true, maybe I should call it a tuple instead. 20181105 05:04:14<+wesdiscordbot> It's essentially a scalar value that happens to be the output of a function that operates on a three-dimensional space 20181105 05:04:24<+wesdiscordbot> And that's really all it is 20181105 05:04:38< celticminstrel> But it can't be described by a single number, which is what it would mean for it to be a scalar. 20181105 05:04:54< hk238> I think it would be more common to refer to it as a vector than a scalar, vectors typically are tuples or triples or whatever. :D 20181105 05:05:03<+wesdiscordbot> #RRGGBB is a single number though 20181105 05:05:28< celticminstrel> hk238: Vectors are tuples with a set of valid operations on them. Those operations are not valid on colours. 20181105 05:05:30< hk238> I guess that's true 20181105 05:05:42< celticminstrel> shadowm: No, it's three numbers squashed together. 20181105 05:06:21< celticminstrel> hk238: Basically, for it to be a vector you need to be able to add them together and scale them. 20181105 05:06:22< hk238> you can definitely add color vectors if you want or take a cross-product, or a dot product (which would result to a scalar) whether it makes sense or not.. 20181105 05:06:29< celticminstrel> True. 20181105 05:07:03<+wesdiscordbot> :thonk: 20181105 05:07:12<+wesdiscordbot> I'm not going to break my head with maths 20181105 05:07:40<+wesdiscordbot> Also bear in mind that the function's domain is pretty limited 20181105 05:07:43< hk238> Anyhow I didn't want to argue about that 20181105 05:07:50<+wesdiscordbot> (Especially with RGB) 20181105 05:08:11< celticminstrel> You can actually add colours and also multiply them... maybe you can scale them too? So maybe they are a vector space of sorts, but not the same as a velocity vector. 20181105 05:08:51< hk238> Yeah I've done that too but do you know about the [color_range] tag does the color of the minimum shade and the maximum shade thing matter? :o or is it just the value? :o 20181105 05:09:09< celticminstrel> Whether they're vectors also depends on whether the addition and scaling satisfies the required properties, like associativity and commutativity. 20181105 05:09:46<+wesdiscordbot> The colours matter in their entirety 20181105 05:09:47< hk238> I'm not sure if those axioms are required for the vector definition, but we can check if you want to 20181105 05:09:59< celticminstrel> They are required. 20181105 05:10:12< hk238> Oh? :D 20181105 05:10:18<+wesdiscordbot> I've never tried a rainbow colour range but I'm pretty sure the function doesn't just extract the value/luminosity/whateverequivalentyouwanttoworkwith and apply it 20181105 05:10:22< celticminstrel> Colour spaces have a ceiling, so it wouldn't surprise me if one or more of the axioms is not satisfied... 20181105 05:10:27< celticminstrel> (And a floor too.) 20181105 05:10:33<+wesdiscordbot> The source is public if you want to look at it 20181105 05:11:57< celticminstrel> (By ceiling I mean eg (0.6, 0.6, 0.6) * 2 = (1, 1, 1) rather than (1.2, 1.2, 1.2) for example.) 20181105 05:13:47< celticminstrel> But anyway, even if they do turn out to be a vector space, it's quite a different vector space from what we normally mean when we say vectors. 20181105 05:15:17< hk238> You seem to be correct in that vector spaces, according to wikipedia, require those axioms 20181105 05:16:24< hk238> also on wikipedia there's no closure axiom so I'm not sure if there being a ceiling disqualifies them, but then it would probably require further delving into the matter to find that out 20181105 05:16:45< celticminstrel> I think the ceiling could cause it to fail some of the other axioms. 20181105 05:16:58< celticminstrel> Maybe the inverse axiom? 20181105 05:17:39< celticminstrel> Associativity and commutativity at least should be fine with a ceiling. 20181105 05:18:00< hk238> hmm I don't know, obviously the vectors would have an inverse, but the inverse wouldn't be contained within the domain so I don't know 20181105 05:18:55< celticminstrel> That's probably not the right approach to the problem. You'd probably have to approach it from the assumption that there is an inverse in the domain and see if you can find a contradiction from that assumption. 20181105 05:18:59< hk238> I'm trying to make version of the color changer by Ravana, or actually I already did but they didn't end up looking like I wanted, so I'm trying to figure out if I can use the minimum color and maximum color properties to adjust saturation 20181105 05:19:30< celticminstrel> The inverse, if it exists, would almost certainly not be simple negation. 20181105 05:19:57< celticminstrel> Well actually... it can't be, because negative numbers aren't in the domain. 20181105 05:20:00< hk238> well the inverse of (a,b,c) would be (-a,-b,-c) ? 20181105 05:20:18< celticminstrel> ... 20181105 05:20:49< celticminstrel> I can't think of any way to get an inverse given that there's no wrapping and no negative numbers. 20181105 05:21:16< celticminstrel> (Wrapping meaning eg 255+1 = 0; for colours 255+1=255.) 20181105 05:22:07< celticminstrel> I can't totally rule out the existance of some strange inverse without actually doing a proof or something, but... 20181105 05:24:17< celticminstrel> hk238: The problem with making the (-a, -b, -c) the inverse of (a, b, c) is that (-a, -b, -c) is not a colour. 20181105 05:24:34< hk238> yeah that's the issue at hand 20181105 05:25:53< hk238> wikipedia doesn't mention the closure axiom as part of the definition, but it does mention that vector spaces are over a field, and field axioms already contain the closure axiom, but then these vectors are closed in the field, but not inside the color range. I wouldn't know I guess it's interesting to think about. :D 20181105 05:26:21< celticminstrel> Note that all this is about RGB colour spaces (and might also work for CMYK), for HSV and the like it doesn't even apply. The valid operations are totally different. 20181105 05:26:46< celticminstrel> What do you mean by closure axiom? 20181105 05:27:27< hk238> the closure axiom means that the addition or multiplication of two vectors will also be contained within the field 20181105 05:27:57< celticminstrel> Well, the vector space definition does say the inverse needs to be in the vector space. 20181105 05:28:16< hk238> yeah I think you're about that :D 20181105 05:28:45<+wesdiscordbot> nerds 20181105 05:29:13< hk238> Being nerdy is awesome, you should join us 20181105 05:29:15< hk238> :D 20181105 05:29:23<+wesdiscordbot> I never really stopped to think how you get the inverse of a colour in RGB 20181105 05:29:49<+wesdiscordbot> Since it's kinda a bitwise operation I'm pretty sure 20181105 05:30:03<+wesdiscordbot> The inverse of #000000 is literally a bitwise NOT 20181105 05:31:01< hk238> Woah, that's too nerdy 20181105 05:31:07< hk238> sorry I'm just kidding :D 20181105 05:32:51< celticminstrel> Yeah, that's the obvious way to get the inverse of a colour - the inverse of (a, b, c) is (1-a, 1-b, 1-c). That doesn't fit the vector space definition of an inverse though, given the ceiling. (I think it would work if addition of colours were modular, though.) 20181105 05:33:27< celticminstrel> (Is the bitwise NOT equivalent to 1-x? I'm not actually sure...) 20181105 05:33:27< hk238> I'm sure you can construct an additive and multiplicative operation that meets the axioms, but I'm not sure if it makes any sense 20181105 05:34:06< hk238> might just as well use the regular operations and.. bitterly admit it might not be a real vector. Just kind of wants to be but someone decided real vectors need to pass 8 tests.. 20181105 05:34:07< hk238> :D 20181105 05:34:09< celticminstrel> Well obviously you can. 20181105 05:34:23< celticminstrel> Otherwise regular Euclidean vectors would not exist. 20181105 05:34:40<+wesdiscordbot> (I'm sure past me from 9 years ago would've been all over this stuff but she died of maths overdose) 20181105 05:35:02< celticminstrel> Anyway the Wikipedia page on colour spaces calls them tuples rather than vectors. 20181105 05:35:42< celticminstrel> It might actually work to think of them as row matrices, too? 20181105 05:35:58< hk238> Should I go in denial and ignore that or rationalize that well wikipedia says that because wikipedia moderators never really came around to thinking they might be vectors too 20181105 05:36:01<+wesdiscordbot> Matrices also have funny operations associated to them 20181105 05:36:08<+wesdiscordbot> 🤓 😛 20181105 05:36:53< celticminstrel> It looks like thinking of them as matrices gives you an inverse maybe? 20181105 05:37:18<+wesdiscordbot> only square matrices have inverses though right? 20181105 05:37:26< hk238> vectors I guess are sort of like matrices with only 1 row or column 20181105 05:37:33< celticminstrel> I don't remember. 20181105 05:37:33< hk238> multiplicative inverses, yes inky 20181105 05:37:44< celticminstrel> Ahhh, right. 20181105 05:37:46< hk238> but the vector space axioms only require additive inverse 20181105 05:38:12< celticminstrel> But the additive inverse for a row matrix is probably (-a, -b, -c). 20181105 05:38:25< celticminstrel> So I guess that doesn't work after all. 20181105 05:38:26< hk238> You get the inverse of a matrix by let's see calculating the minors, then you get cofactros by applying a +- mask, then you transpose it to get an adjoint matrix 20181105 05:38:37< hk238> then you multiply the adjoint matrix with 1 over the determinant of the matrix 20181105 05:39:26< celticminstrel> Maybe it would work if you define the vector addition to be multiplication. 20181105 05:39:56< celticminstrel> Multiplication of colours is entrywise, so the inverse would be (1/a, 1/b, 1/c) which is in the domain. 20181105 05:40:56< celticminstrel> Of course, then the "zero" is white instead of black. 20181105 05:41:23< celticminstrel> But I'm pretty sure it would satisfy all the axioms. 20181105 05:41:33< celticminstrel> The real question is, does it actually make sense. :P 20181105 05:42:05< hk238> it might be pretty cool for some visual effects or something :D 20181105 05:42:16< celticminstrel> Yes this is a vector space but does it make sense to call this vector space "colours". 20181105 05:42:37< celticminstrel> (The operation is called "addition" in the definition of the vector space but there's no reason it actually has to be addition.) 20181105 05:43:35< celticminstrel> ...oh, does that actually satisfy the distributivity axioms... 20181105 05:43:38<+wesdiscordbot> hmmm but then you also need scalar multiplication 20181105 05:43:50< celticminstrel> I was assuming that to still be multiplication. 20181105 05:44:00< celticminstrel> So both operations are multiplicative IOW. 20181105 05:44:10< celticminstrel> But I wonder if that can satisfy the distributivity... 20181105 05:44:20<+wesdiscordbot> only square matrices have inverses though right? Yeah, but I'm pretty sure that some square matrices don't have inverses (degenerate matrices), but I don't quite remember 20181105 05:44:33< celticminstrel> Yeah. 20181105 05:44:59< celticminstrel> Distributivity of scalar multiplication over vector addition is fine, that reduces to associativity of the field multiplication. 20181105 05:45:23< hk238> yeah if the determinant is zero then you have a problem with the 1 over the determinant part 20181105 05:45:37< hk238> in so far as a I recall.. :o 20181105 05:46:06< celticminstrel> Yeah, what I described fails on distributivity of scaler multiplication over field addition. 20181105 05:46:09< celticminstrel> So close. :P 20181105 05:46:17< hk238> One possibility might be shifting the zero so -128 is black and +128 is white 20181105 05:46:35< celticminstrel> But maybe it can still work if you choose something else as the scalar multiplication. 20181105 05:46:38<+wesdiscordbot> yeah i don't think (a +b) V = aV + bV anymroe 20181105 05:46:49< celticminstrel> Hmm. That's an interesting idea but... I dunno. 20181105 05:47:04<+wesdiscordbot> Math can keep me occupied for hours 20181105 05:47:14<+wesdiscordbot> I like math! 😄 20181105 05:47:20<+wesdiscordbot> Me too! 20181105 05:47:26< hk238> yay 20181105 05:47:26< hk238> :D 20181105 05:47:27< celticminstrel> @Inky - It's easy to verify, just pick some numbers and plug them in. For example, let a=1, b=2, V=(3,3,3), and remember that the + on the RHS is actually multiplication. 20181105 05:48:02<+wesdiscordbot> Whenever people talk about like development or coding etc. in the wesnoth chat, i can never relate so i just fall asleep when I read it (no offense!!) but finally it is math, something that I can read and understand or at least relate to 20181105 05:48:19< celticminstrel> It happens every so often. :P 20181105 05:48:40< hk238> Hmmmm :D 20181105 05:48:41<+wesdiscordbot> well i've been learning to code recently, still on my epic quest to learn C++ 😄 20181105 05:48:50<+wesdiscordbot> Oh cool :) 20181105 05:49:02< celticminstrel> Try to avoid pointers. 20181105 05:49:11<+wesdiscordbot> oof 20181105 05:49:14<+wesdiscordbot> what are pointers? 20181105 05:49:25<+wesdiscordbot> don't pointers make stuff faster or something 20181105 05:49:26<+wesdiscordbot> I'd have to explain systems architecture first 20181105 05:49:29< celticminstrel> They're things that point to things. ;p 20181105 05:49:32<+wesdiscordbot> Ah 20181105 05:49:32<+wesdiscordbot> i'm new to all this 😄 20181105 05:49:34< celticminstrel> Uhh actually. 20181105 05:49:39<+wesdiscordbot> so it is computer science related, then? 20181105 05:50:06< celticminstrel> @Inky - pointers tend to be slower, though I imagine this rarely matters that much; performance isn't usually the reason to avoid them. 20181105 05:50:09<+wesdiscordbot> Are you familiarized with memory vs. storage? 20181105 05:50:16<+wesdiscordbot> Yes 20181105 05:50:23< celticminstrel> And anyway the reason to avoid them does not apply to references, which are the same thing under the hood. 20181105 05:50:42< celticminstrel> BTW, references are a great way to make your lines of code shorter. 20181105 05:51:08<+wesdiscordbot> In order to refer to objects in memory you need to know where they are, since memory by itself is just a homogeneous pile of data (this is an intentional oversimplification) 20181105 05:51:25< celticminstrel> Similar to JavaScript's much-maligned "with" statement. 20181105 05:51:27<+wesdiscordbot> A pointer is just the position of an object in the memory address space 20181105 05:51:35<+wesdiscordbot> hmmm well at the moment i'm a lot more concerned with having it work than be faster or shorter 😅 20181105 05:51:35<+wesdiscordbot> Ohh, ok makes sense I think 20181105 05:51:37< celticminstrel> (Much-malaigned for a good reason, JS's way of doing it is quite bad.) 20181105 05:52:01<+wesdiscordbot> Some values may exist in CPU registers instead, where they exist as intrinsic entitites without an address 20181105 05:52:06< celticminstrel> Bah there's an extra A in there. 20181105 05:52:21<+wesdiscordbot> CPU registers are essentially just a scratchpad to work with memory contents though 20181105 05:52:33<+wesdiscordbot> As well as pointers themselves 20181105 05:52:38<+wesdiscordbot> hmmm 20181105 05:52:43<+wesdiscordbot> Why should they be avoided? 20181105 05:53:01<+wesdiscordbot> In C and C++ you can refer to objects by value or as pointers 20181105 05:53:10< celticminstrel> Because there's nothing in C to guarantee that the position they point to is actually valid. 20181105 05:53:20<+wesdiscordbot> oh 20181105 05:53:21<+wesdiscordbot> Referring to them as pointeres tend to lead to code where you might lose track of whether an object has been destroyed or not 20181105 05:53:30<+wesdiscordbot> Because objects have a lifetime associated to them 20181105 05:53:38<+wesdiscordbot> It depends on the exact nature of the object 20181105 05:53:40< celticminstrel> So you can very easily end up trying to use a pointer that points somewhere random (or to the beginning of memory space - a null pointer). 20181105 05:54:13<+wesdiscordbot> ah I remember reading something like that 20181105 05:54:19< celticminstrel> (FTR the beginning of the virtual memory space is never available for storing data; I think usually the program's code is loaded up there.) 20181105 05:54:35<+wesdiscordbot> celticminstrel: That's absolutely untrue these days 20181105 05:54:51< celticminstrel> Oh, okay. 20181105 05:54:54 * celticminstrel shrugs. 20181105 05:55:18<+wesdiscordbot> VA space randomization among other techniques guarantee that you're never going to find code or data in the start page 20181105 05:55:33< celticminstrel> Oh, I think I kinda see what you mean. 20181105 05:55:49< celticminstrel> Basically so you can't predict what a null pointer is actually pointing to and rely on it. 20181105 05:56:15<+wesdiscordbot> However different operating systems do offer different memory layout plans 20181105 05:56:46<+wesdiscordbot> For example on Windows XP and earlier versions of NT you have system libraries loaded above 0x70000000 or so 20181105 05:57:13<+wesdiscordbot> With 0x80000000 and above reserved for kernel mode mappings and therefore inaccessible to user-mode programs 20181105 05:58:23<+wesdiscordbot> (The executive and other critical kernel mode services usually sat at the very start of the 2 GB kernel mode address space) 20181105 05:58:51<+wesdiscordbot> On Windows 9x you had 0x800000000 assigned to be the start of the shared kernel arena 20181105 05:59:14<+wesdiscordbot> With 0xC0000000 as the start of the virtual machine manager address space 20181105 06:00:03<+wesdiscordbot> (Among other things the shared kernel arena had USER and GDI objects available to all applications in it. The end of it had shared libraries like KERNEL32 mapped into it.) 20181105 06:01:10<+wesdiscordbot> IIRC around 0x1000 or so you'd find certain DOS data structures required for every single process 20181105 06:02:03<+wesdiscordbot> Of course all this stuff changed once relocatable executables become more common and then towards the end of the 2000s security-oriented programming mandated that resource locations (whether it be code or data) should not be predictable 20181105 06:04:24<+wesdiscordbot> Also, I'm pretty sure in Windows 9x the zero page was still actually accessible if you were a DOS application 20181105 06:04:31<+wesdiscordbot> So null pointers were in fact valid 20181105 06:05:50<+wesdiscordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/508884623510732800/Screenshot_20181105_080504.png 20181105 06:05:52<+wesdiscordbot> this is pretty weird 😄 20181105 06:06:06<+wesdiscordbot> I don't think that back when personal computers only had 640 KB of RAM you could afford to declare any single segment to be off-limits 20181105 06:06:41-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|sleep 20181105 06:08:19<+wesdiscordbot> Then again virtual memory did not exist either 20181105 06:13:02<+wesdiscordbot> celticminstrel: I wouldn't be opposed to adding a few more smilies, but I don't really feel like going and looking for new images to use for that either. 20181105 06:22:56< hk238> Perhaps using some of the wesnoth icons could work 20181105 06:27:13< celmin|sleep> Copying custom smilies from Discord won't work? 20181105 06:30:46<+wesdiscordbot> :sof: :run: :bowman: :bhammer: 20181105 06:30:54<+wesdiscordbot> I mean none of these are rocket science 20181105 06:31:13<+wesdiscordbot> They're just scaled down versions of mainline assets, as well as a cropped one (and one of them needs TC) 20181105 06:38:43<+wesdiscordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/508892898398306307/peasant-idle-7.png 20181105 06:39:03<+wesdiscordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/508892984260034581/elder-mage-ranged3.png 20181105 06:41:15<+wesdiscordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/508893537417429013/duelist_face.png 20181105 06:41:17<+wesdiscordbot> 😄 20181105 06:43:07<+wesdiscordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/508894011881291776/master-at-arms_face.png 20181105 06:44:39<+wesdiscordbot> This last one is pretty good it could do as a smiley. But it's still pretty big. What size are actual smileys? 20181105 06:46:04<+wesdiscordbot> 15x15, generally 20181105 06:47:02<+wesdiscordbot> Oh right there's the big smileys when you post only 1 and then small if they're embedded? Here's the master at arms in 32x32 20181105 06:47:11<+wesdiscordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/508895030178611210/master_at_arms_3.png 20181105 06:47:19<+wesdiscordbot> heh 20181105 07:38:22-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20181105 08:03:33-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20181105 08:15:05-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has joined #wesnoth 20181105 08:17:06-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20181105 09:06:26-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181105 09:09:18-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has joined #wesnoth 20181105 11:22:39-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181105 12:31:21-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20181105 12:47:09-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has joined #wesnoth 20181105 13:39:57< celmin|sleep> TBH, I don't think Wesnoth unit sprites could be made into good smileys. 20181105 13:40:16< celmin|sleep> But item sprites like the SoF might work well. 20181105 13:44:16-!- celmin|sleep is now known as celmin|away 20181105 14:27:21<+wesdiscordbot> they work 20181105 14:27:26<+wesdiscordbot> if you joined discord you would see 20181105 15:47:52-!- gfgtdf [~Daniel@x55b0e14d.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth 20181105 15:49:20< gfgtdf> forum bot: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=46324&p=634998#p634998 20181105 15:54:01< gfgtdf> post gone now. 20181105 17:25:25-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20181105 17:29:08-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/] 20181105 17:39:14-!- gfgtdf [~Daniel@x55b0e14d.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20181105 17:50:12-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…] 20181105 20:34:25-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20181105 20:37:09< deathisundead> [unit] should work under the [side] tag, right? 20181105 20:39:18< Ravana_> check documentation or try it out 20181105 20:40:42< deathisundead> That's the thing, it says on the wiki, but when I tried it, it didn't spawn the units. 20181105 20:41:03<+wesdiscordbot> Code pls 20181105 20:42:26< deathisundead> https://pastebin.com/hNX5VQvR 20181105 20:42:46< deathisundead> Just basic stuff. But, the leaders aren't spawning at all. 20181105 20:42:57<+wesdiscordbot> Unit ids and type ids are case-sensitive. 20181105 20:43:18<+wesdiscordbot> There isn't a "peasant" unit type in mainline, only "Peasant" 20181105 20:43:52< deathisundead> Ahhhh, thanks. I was scratching my head for 2 days trying to figure it out lol 20181105 20:44:01<+wesdiscordbot> Also why is the side 1 leader actually side 4? 20181105 20:44:20<+wesdiscordbot> You don't need to specify the side numbers for the units if they are for the same side you're defining 20181105 20:44:43<+wesdiscordbot> And the locations wouldn't be needed if you set the starting locations in the map itself using the map editor 20181105 20:44:48< deathisundead> Copy and paste, more than likely 20181105 20:45:09<+wesdiscordbot> You also have duplicate canrecruit attributes between the side and unit definitions. 20181105 20:45:41< deathisundead> The whole [unit] tag was because the defined locations weren't working, but because of the unit id, as you pointed out 20181105 20:45:43<+wesdiscordbot> (I also don't understand why people would rather use [unit] instead of placing the leader's definition into the side definition itself.) 20181105 20:45:50<+wesdiscordbot> Ahh 20181105 20:45:58< deathisundead> More or less troubleshooting lol 20181105 20:46:22<+wesdiscordbot> Odds are the game was telling you that "peasant" is not a valid unit type somewhere in stderr by the way 20181105 20:47:09< deathisundead> Shouldn't the console show the stderr? 20181105 20:47:18<+wesdiscordbot> Yes 20181105 20:47:27< deathisundead> Because that was the first thing I tried, and it remained empty. 20181105 20:47:36<+wesdiscordbot> Completely empty? 20181105 20:47:56<+wesdiscordbot> Wait, are you talking about the in-game console? Because 90% of the important stuff for development doesn't ever reach it 20181105 20:48:14< deathisundead> Nope, the "Wesnoth with Console" 20181105 20:48:33<+wesdiscordbot> But you see other messages such as the game version? 20181105 20:48:33< deathisundead> And it showed that I didn't have a info.cfg file. and that was the only error 20181105 20:48:39<+wesdiscordbot> Oh okay 20181105 20:48:52<+wesdiscordbot> Maybe it doesn't warn about invalid unit definitions anymore :/ 20181105 20:49:08<+wesdiscordbot> In 1.12 and earlier it'd be pretty loud by outright aborting game initialization 20181105 20:49:37< deathisundead> Lol I remember that one. Mess up one unit name, and the whole thing was unplayable. 20181105 20:49:48< deathisundead> Honestly prefer that over complete silence. 20181105 20:50:20<+wesdiscordbot> Meanwhile, someone decided to make other stuff like a missing option in [animate_unit] cause event processing to be aborted 👀 20181105 21:03:18-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20181105 21:17:37-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20181105 22:29:57-!- kitsunenokenja [~kitsunech@68.91.220.96] has joined #wesnoth 20181105 22:52:26-!- kitsunenokenja [~kitsunech@68.91.220.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] --- Log closed Tue Nov 06 00:00:50 2018