--- Log opened Sat Nov 17 00:00:37 2018 20181117 00:28:33-!- sevu [~sevu@p5485415E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181117 00:44:58-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20181117 00:55:08< buhman> celmin|away: yeah; just reading about various things in preparation to do it in a hopefully not-awful way 20181117 01:26:37-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/] 20181117 01:28:28< celmin|away> @Virnrohiik - Past tense. 20181117 01:28:45< celmin|away> It was a Minecraft server mod. Then one of the developers DMCA'd it. 20181117 01:29:02< celmin|away> (A Minecraft server mod providing a mods API.) 20181117 01:30:07-!- celmin|away is now known as celticminstrel 20181117 01:41:03<+wesdiscordbot> Ah 20181117 01:42:57< celticminstrel> To clarify, one of the Bukkit devs DMCA'd it. Why they would do that is beyond me. 20181117 01:43:29< celticminstrel> This was when Minecraft was still developed by Notch; IIRC the DMCA came after several Bukkit devs were hired by Mojang. 20181117 01:44:33<+wesdiscordbot> I'm surprised you know that happened and not the why 20181117 01:44:48< celticminstrel> I wasn't there when it happened. 20181117 01:44:55<+wesdiscordbot> Notch was either no longer involved at that point or he had even already sold Mojang 20181117 01:45:04< celticminstrel> I wandered in a bit later and was like "where the hell did it go". 20181117 01:45:42< celticminstrel> I don't recall when Mojang was sold relative to this event. 20181117 01:45:43<+wesdiscordbot> Either way the dev revenge-DMCA'd Bukkit in response to a statement from a high-ranking Mojang person essentially saying that they acquired Bukkit along with the devs they hired, which were previously Bukkit devs 20181117 01:46:12<+wesdiscordbot> In turn that was in response to Bukkit reaching EOL because of the project admin's resignation 20181117 01:46:23< celticminstrel> I see. 20181117 01:46:35<+wesdiscordbot> IIRC it was said project admin himself who filed the revenge DMCA takedown request 20181117 01:47:09<+wesdiscordbot> I've used this case as an example for many conversations with certain people who need to be made aware of the dangers of sloppy licensing practices 20181117 01:48:36<+wesdiscordbot> Okay, it was before Microsoft's acquisition of Mojang 20181117 01:48:37<+wesdiscordbot> Lol 20181117 01:48:49<+wesdiscordbot> So he went after mod makers for the game 20181117 01:49:06<+wesdiscordbot> People uninvolved with the people who had made the slight 20181117 01:49:09<+wesdiscordbot> What a ass 20181117 01:49:43<+wesdiscordbot> I don't think anyone in this particular situation was an "ass" 20181117 01:50:07< celticminstrel> Bukkit (or more precisely, the actual mod that implemented the API) was always on thin ice though. 20181117 01:50:23<+wesdiscordbot> Ah, didn’t know that 20181117 01:50:32<+wesdiscordbot> I can agree with not being a ass then 20181117 01:50:57<+wesdiscordbot> I thought generally cause it wasn’t being used for money, it’d be fine 20181117 01:51:10<+wesdiscordbot> But more importantly Mojang's surreptitious acquisition of Bukkit through those two hires came across as a very mean-spirited maneuver even if it might not have been intended to be such 20181117 01:51:39< celticminstrel> They were quite clearly reverse-engineering the Minecraft source. (Mind you, probably most other Minecraft mods are on similarly thin ice.) 20181117 01:51:48<+wesdiscordbot> That's just one of many points against Mojang's PR abilities before Microsoft acquired them really 20181117 01:52:04< celticminstrel> Kinda curious which Mojang person made this claim actually. 20181117 01:52:15<+wesdiscordbot> Also yes, Minecraft Forge exists in a massive grey area 20181117 01:52:17< celticminstrel> Like was it one of the new hires or someone else. 20181117 01:52:30< celticminstrel> Yeah, basically CraftBukkit was the server equivalent of Minecraft Forge. 20181117 01:52:37<+wesdiscordbot> What, how is it on thin ice if they aren’t making money off stuff? 20181117 01:52:38< celticminstrel> (I knew Forge existed but didn't remember its name.) 20181117 01:52:45< celticminstrel> Money has nothing to do with it? 20181117 01:52:48<+wesdiscordbot> Even more interesting is the fact that some of the mods are published under the GNU GPL 20181117 01:52:52<+wesdiscordbot> I can understand if it’s using stolen copies or something 20181117 01:53:00<+wesdiscordbot> And technically they're being statically linked into proprietary code 20181117 01:53:03< celticminstrel> "stolen" 20181117 01:53:13<+wesdiscordbot> “Pirated” 20181117 01:53:16< celticminstrel> Better. 20181117 01:53:22< celticminstrel> Piracy is not theft. 20181117 01:53:24<+wesdiscordbot> They’re the same thing 20181117 01:53:25<+wesdiscordbot> There's more nuance to IP law 20181117 01:53:31< celticminstrel> They're totally different. 20181117 01:53:42< celticminstrel> Theft deprives the owner of the thing stolen. Piracy doesn't. 20181117 01:53:44<+wesdiscordbot> Just cause a bunch of people, including me are fine with it 20181117 01:54:04<+wesdiscordbot> I haven't looked at Minecraft's EULA but I really doubt it grants express permission to reverse engineer the game's code, and odds are it expressly forbids it 20181117 01:54:13< celticminstrel> ^Software piracy. Obviously the more conventional type of piracy was indeed just theft and stuff. 20181117 01:54:42<+wesdiscordbot> Therefore any efforts along those lines such as MCP could be considered in violation of the EULA in a court willing to uphold said EULA (e.g. all courts in America) 20181117 01:55:03<+wesdiscordbot> And any derivative works thereof such as Minecraft Forge would be illegal 20181117 01:55:09<+wesdiscordbot> Ah 20181117 01:56:34<+wesdiscordbot> Anyway as far as I know Bukkit has kinda lived on through successor projects 20181117 01:56:40<+wesdiscordbot> So there's that 20181117 01:57:00<+wesdiscordbot> Also, get off your high horse please. It’s stealing. Your taking something without paying for it. I’m not saying it’s a terrible thing in this case, but it’s still not ‘good’ 20181117 01:57:07< celticminstrel> There was Spigot, yeah, and I imagine it wasn't alone, 20181117 01:57:25< celticminstrel> I'm not defending software piracy. 20181117 01:57:33< celticminstrel> I'm just pointing out that it's very different from stealing. 20181117 01:57:47< celticminstrel> When you steal something, the rightful owner loses it. 20181117 01:57:47<+wesdiscordbot> I think Mojang know that it's in their best interest to not challenge the existence of mods as long as they don't have a modding API (lel) but they also can't really legitimize their existence either 20181117 01:57:54< celticminstrel> When you pirate software, it's merely copied. 20181117 01:58:11< celticminstrel> It's more like sneaking into their house and photocopying documents. 20181117 01:58:17<+wesdiscordbot> Oh, guess patents aren’t a thing 20181117 01:59:21< celticminstrel> I know Mojang promised a modding API in X amount of time that's long, long past, but... watching the development, it does seem like it's slowly emerging. 20181117 01:59:34< celticminstrel> Excruciatingly slowly, sure, but... 20181117 02:00:02<+wesdiscordbot> Ya know, cause it isn’t stealing when you take someone’s idea! It’s just copying! 20181117 02:00:18<+wesdiscordbot> And are they really? That sounds like it’d be amazing for the mod community 20181117 02:00:34<+wesdiscordbot> They're working on open sourcing some parts of the engine, actually 20181117 02:00:37< celticminstrel> I'd say that's both completely different from stealing and also completely different from software piracy. 20181117 02:00:48<+wesdiscordbot> I doubt they're going to open source the whole thing, but it's an interesting data point 20181117 02:00:52<+wesdiscordbot> Also quit the silly semantics debate 20181117 02:01:22< celticminstrel> But taking someone's idea is probably closer to stealing than is software piracy, because by using their idea you can probably deprive them of any benefit they'd get from using said idea. 20181117 02:02:33<+wesdiscordbot> What did I just say though 20181117 02:22:14-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20181117 03:09:10-!- sevu [~sevu@p5485415E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20181117 03:09:21-!- sevu [~sevu@p5485415E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181117 04:51:47<+wesdiscordbot> I finally finished the video! Check it out! I apologize for being pretty bad at Wesnoth's basic mechanics https://youtu.be/EYgi3dxAQMA 20181117 05:01:04<+wesdiscordbot> My upload schedule may be a joke, but I at least did it 20181117 05:34:34-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|sleep 20181117 05:42:56<+wesdiscordbot> I like it! 20181117 05:45:44<+wesdiscordbot> Thanks 20181117 05:46:53<+wesdiscordbot> Of course ❤ 20181117 05:48:42<+wesdiscordbot> I think maybe talk a little bit more in general? 20181117 05:50:07<+wesdiscordbot> I had more clips of the game but they were boring or me not talking unfortunately, I've got stuff im gonna do better next time 20181117 05:50:10<+wesdiscordbot> but its still really good :) 20181117 05:50:16<+wesdiscordbot> not much to talk about anyway i guess 20181117 05:50:18<+wesdiscordbot> and yeah 20181117 05:50:23<+wesdiscordbot> i see 20181117 05:50:36<+wesdiscordbot> the comment section is already me and my friend memeing 20181117 05:50:51<+wesdiscordbot> xD 20181117 05:56:06<+wesdiscordbot> now it's buried 20181117 07:43:41-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20181117 08:16:04<+wesdiscordbot> this is gonna be a long playthrough 20181117 08:16:12<+wesdiscordbot> (since Legend of the Invincibles is extremely long) 20181117 08:27:02<+wesdiscordbot> yeah 20181117 08:27:05<+wesdiscordbot> i got time 20181117 08:27:32<+wesdiscordbot> and i've already made wesnoth a old staple on my channel, like, it's the first game i played on it 20181117 08:35:55<+wesdiscordbot> but without sharing my first LotI video it got over 100 views, this time im sharing it with the community so I can engage with it 20181117 09:22:39-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20181117 14:12:25<+wesdiscordbot> :) 20181117 14:37:36-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has joined #wesnoth 20181117 14:58:40-!- celmin|sleep is now known as celticminstrel 20181117 15:01:12-!- kitsunenokenja [~kitsunech@68.91.220.96] has joined #wesnoth 20181117 15:10:59-!- kitsunenokenja [~kitsunech@68.91.220.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20181117 15:29:42-!- kitsunenokenja [~kitsunech@68.91.220.96] has joined #wesnoth 20181117 16:29:09-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20181117 16:34:50-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20181117 16:55:50-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: mattsc] 20181117 16:57:03-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20181117 16:57:15-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Client Quit] 20181117 17:23:01-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20181117 18:20:28-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20181117 19:37:10-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth 20181117 19:46:49-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20181117 19:51:17-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has joined #wesnoth 20181117 19:52:46-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20181117 19:54:32-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth 20181117 20:01:38-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20181117 20:08:38-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20181117 20:21:29-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20181117 20:26:14-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20181117 20:37:29-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: mattsc] 20181117 21:18:47<+wesdiscordbot> i love the international section of this server 😄 20181117 21:18:52<+wesdiscordbot> i love the languages!! 20181117 21:19:24<+wesdiscordbot> but i'm very bad at asian languages because they are so tough >< 20181117 21:20:11<+wesdiscordbot> What languages do you know then? 20181117 21:22:32<+wesdiscordbot> Something tells me that Joris is Swedish? lol 😊 x3 20181117 21:26:49<+wesdiscordbot> Wow... impressive. Joris speaks or knows some at the very least the following: english, french, german, italian, and spanish. 😲 20181117 21:28:42<+wesdiscordbot> yes it's my favorite past time 🙂 20181117 21:29:07<+wesdiscordbot> one of the toughest to learn (for me) is Russian 20181117 21:29:13<+wesdiscordbot> it's very hard to get used to this! 20181117 21:29:43<+wesdiscordbot> I used to speak Russian like 10 years ago 20181117 21:30:15<+wesdiscordbot> That's really awesome by the way, that you study all these languages and everything... and honestly I wish I knew more languages because it makes me feel so like... 20181117 21:30:18<+wesdiscordbot> self centered? 20181117 21:30:20<+wesdiscordbot> if I only know one language 20181117 21:30:41<+wesdiscordbot> well a little bit at least 20181117 21:30:59<+wesdiscordbot> well it was a vacation to Sweden 20181117 21:31:04<+wesdiscordbot> in 2011 20181117 21:31:17<+wesdiscordbot> i was astonished how well they speak English and Swedish 20181117 21:31:26<+wesdiscordbot> Are you of Swedish blood? 20181117 21:31:35<+wesdiscordbot> and from there i wanted to learn the second official language of Canada which is French 20181117 21:31:44<+wesdiscordbot> and then i got addicted to learning a lot from then 20181117 21:31:49<+wesdiscordbot> i'm Iranian 😉 20181117 21:32:01<+wesdiscordbot> Ohh that's very cool :) 20181117 21:32:17<+wesdiscordbot> and ah Iranian, also cool :) 20181117 21:32:35<+wesdiscordbot> awwn thanks 😊 20181117 21:32:49<+wesdiscordbot> Of course! ❤ ❤ :) 20181117 21:33:13<+wesdiscordbot> so you also know Arabic characters then? 20181117 21:33:29<+wesdiscordbot> yes! but i don't know arabic at all 20181117 21:33:40<+wesdiscordbot> just persian 20181117 21:33:45<+wesdiscordbot> Ah 20181117 21:34:12<+wesdiscordbot> I want to be fluent in Japanese because I want to travel there probably 20181117 21:34:21<+wesdiscordbot> I only know English and German 20181117 21:34:39<+wesdiscordbot> chinese and japanese are more of a lifestyle languages 20181117 21:34:44<+wesdiscordbot> you really gotta delve in deep 20181117 21:35:04<+wesdiscordbot> because these languages are not just languages imo... they are a form of artform 20181117 21:35:12<+wesdiscordbot> Mmm, so true.. One time I was intrigued by this one chinese character so I studied what the stroke patterns mean 20181117 21:35:17<+wesdiscordbot> and I was amazed at how like 20181117 21:35:22<+wesdiscordbot> they mean something specific, like a story 20181117 21:35:42<+wesdiscordbot> i've seen people study these languages and they are very bright thinkers 20181117 21:35:47<+wesdiscordbot> mmm 20181117 21:36:13<+wesdiscordbot> i study european languages which don't take too much effort. but asian languages are much more than languages 20181117 21:36:24<+wesdiscordbot> they have much more meaning 20181117 21:36:41<+wesdiscordbot> btw nice discord picture 😉 20181117 21:36:44<+wesdiscordbot> is that you? 20181117 21:37:02<+wesdiscordbot> I see.. both Germanic and Romantic and Slavic languages? 20181117 21:37:11<+wesdiscordbot> Haha thanks xD no, he is a chess player 20181117 21:37:16<+wesdiscordbot> his name is Maxime Vachier-Lagrave, french guy 20181117 21:37:39<+wesdiscordbot> and I am a huge fan of him in the chess realm 20181117 21:40:11<+wesdiscordbot> oh whoa so you're an avid chess player 20181117 21:40:13<+wesdiscordbot> very interesting 20181117 21:42:20<+wesdiscordbot> Yes!!! 😘 20181117 21:43:20<+wesdiscordbot> well now i know who's gonna beat me at chess hahaha 20181117 21:43:51<+wesdiscordbot> XD have you played at rated chess tournaments? 20181117 21:43:59<+wesdiscordbot> no i don't think so 20181117 21:44:06<+wesdiscordbot> my old pap used to teach me chess 20181117 21:44:08<+wesdiscordbot> he loved chess 20181117 21:44:14<+wesdiscordbot> Ooh 20181117 21:44:19<+wesdiscordbot> but he's no longer with us 😦 20181117 21:44:47<+wesdiscordbot> Aww can I ask why? 20181117 21:44:55<+wesdiscordbot> Wait are you KALASHNIKOV from Wesnoth?? 20181117 21:45:30<+wesdiscordbot> Oh no nevermind, sorry I was confused, they are a person I met a long time ago 20181117 21:45:33<+wesdiscordbot> Palestinian 20181117 21:46:56<+wesdiscordbot> oh no i'm just an unknown on wesnoth lol 20181117 21:47:08<+wesdiscordbot> i play the offline campaigns 😅 20181117 21:47:14-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20181117 21:48:00<+wesdiscordbot> Ah, xP 20181117 22:09:41<+wesdiscordbot> I should play some multiplayer with someone sooner or later 20181117 22:10:29<+wesdiscordbot> Oh man it's been forever since i've played, but I'd be up for a game maybe!! 20181117 22:10:42<+wesdiscordbot> depends on what time 20181117 22:30:33-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20181117 22:44:10<+wesdiscordbot> some time in the future 20181117 23:08:12-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181117 23:12:24-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20181117 23:57:52-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] --- Log closed Sun Nov 18 00:00:38 2018