--- Log opened Sun Dec 16 00:00:51 2018 20181216 00:10:57< irker223> wesnoth/wesnoth:master josteph 0d66b229e8 Sidebar: In the tooltip of 'lvl 1' show AppVeyor: All builds passed 20181216 00:11:36-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181216 01:00:20<+wesdiscordbot> question about gfgtdf's comment here: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/3665#issuecomment-433649010 If that could cause OOS, how does it work currently, where when say side 3 disconnects during side 4's turn, it asks me (the host/side 1) who to give the side to? 20181216 01:00:56<+wesdiscordbot> is assigning an AI as a side controller somehow OOS prone? 20181216 01:02:36<+wesdiscordbot> particularly it seems odd if it can be accomplished easily with WML, as enclave says here: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=49158 20181216 02:05:55-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181216 02:46:49< mattsc> celticminstrel: you made a comment on this TODO: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/ai/default/contexts.hpp#L289 20181216 02:47:26< mattsc> I tried to track it down a bit and it was introduced here: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/13a103f64042aefe3f705f32d08946085defac63#diff-9bed5a57fc5b2c491654c8748e5cac27R306 20181216 02:47:51< mattsc> So there’s no hint on what Crab meant with this at all. 20181216 02:48:35< mattsc> Point being, I have no idea what to do with this, or even what the intention here might have been. 20181216 02:49:19< mattsc> Since this is a refactor comment from 9 years ago, should we just drop it? 20181216 03:07:23< irker223> wesnoth/wesnoth:master josteph a5e8c2712a Help: Document campaign 'level' and 'dif AppVeyor: All builds passed 20181216 05:20:32< irker223> wesnoth/wesnoth:nemaara-master pentarctagon 615fe82011 Merge branch 'master' of https://github. AppVeyor: All builds passed 20181216 05:56:10-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20181216 06:19:10<+wesdiscordbot> @mattsc if I had to guess, he had intended to find a way to achieve the same thing without having a mutable member. 20181216 06:26:45<+wesdiscordbot> There are only a very limited number of proper uses for mutable. If the member was not truly a cache that had nothing to do with the objects defined state, then it was a hack to get around a const, i.e. design issue 20181216 06:35:48<+wesdiscordbot> For example: an object was being passed around in many places as const, a situation arises where one thing needs changes but was too much effort to remove const in all those places, so a mutable got slapped in for that one member. 20181216 06:40:07<+wesdiscordbot> But it's a private member 20181216 06:44:50< celticminstrel> mattsc: No real preference, but if there's an obvious way to make it not mutable, that's probably a good idea. 20181216 06:46:08< celticminstrel> I'd at least try removing that keyword and see what breaks, and whether it can be fixed by removing const in some places rather than adding mutable back. 20181216 06:46:33< celticminstrel> If it looks very complicated though, or breaks lots of things, maybe it's not worth it. 20181216 06:52:25-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|sleep 20181216 08:21:17-!- irker223 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20181216 09:09:13-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181216 12:06:51-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181216 12:15:12-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181216 13:49:02-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181216 14:29:28-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181216 14:46:34<+wesdiscordbot> Search functionality for the Recruit Unit dialog 20181216 14:46:34<+wesdiscordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/523873571949248512/Screenshot_2018-12-16_14-40-28.png 20181216 14:47:00<+wesdiscordbot> (the screenshot is in the test scenario) 20181216 14:47:29< Ravana> nice 20181216 14:47:36< Ravana> just finished generating lists for ageless 20181216 14:47:48< Ravana> will see if it is possible to have era with only random leaders 20181216 14:48:12<+wesdiscordbot> great 20181216 14:48:26<+wesdiscordbot> even if it's not, it's not a blocker, is it? 20181216 14:48:42<+wesdiscordbot> if players have a random leader by default but can explicitly choose a leader if they want 20181216 14:49:06< Ravana> seems that not possible 20181216 14:49:34< Ravana> I guess workaround would be giving fog clearer as only selectable leader 20181216 14:51:42< Ravana> recruit menu takes 5s to open 20181216 14:52:15< Ravana> after first time, only 2s 20181216 14:54:19< Ravana> https://github.com/ProditorMagnus/WML_tree_tools/commit/6c19446ea270b4de841aaa96f9d2fe57b9eb6022 https://github.com/ProditorMagnus/Ageless-for-1-14/commit/a016fc9058afeeba05e148a7116a6c4116d4875b 20181216 14:56:50<+wesdiscordbot> sorry, what? "fog clearer"? 20181216 14:57:54<+wesdiscordbot> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/60fd504caf46bbb1648de369303b76225d805e5d/data/core/units/fake/Fog_Clearer.cfg 20181216 14:59:32<+wesdiscordbot> thanks 20181216 15:00:10<+wesdiscordbot> Ravana, hats off, can't wait to playtest that πŸ˜ƒ 20181216 15:01:01< Ravana> you should be able to copy the file 20181216 15:01:13< Ravana> I don't think todays balance changes added any new units 20181216 15:02:15<+wesdiscordbot> ya know what the fog clearer reminds me of 20181216 15:02:34< Ravana> then needs to be require_era=no and verbally making sure others have ageless 20181216 15:02:45<+wesdiscordbot> how in Skyrim all the Daedric gods had to have hidden generic NPC bodies since their engine couldn't just play ambient dialog. 20181216 15:03:00<+wesdiscordbot> #GameDevHax 20181216 15:04:01<+wesdiscordbot> It's kinda funny, really. 20181216 15:05:07<+wesdiscordbot> Players: "wow look at this amazing cutscene!" Developers: "oh yeah there's some weird messy hack we used to do that since the engine didn't support x" 20181216 15:05:55<+wesdiscordbot> I don't get Ageless Union in the MP Create screen 20181216 15:05:58<+wesdiscordbot> I'm actually curious whether Bethedsa still needs to rely on such a hack πŸ€” 20181216 15:06:29< Ravana> remove ageless_4_21.preprocessed.cfg 20181216 15:07:07<+wesdiscordbot> I wouldn't be surprised if they were still using such hacks. Fallout 76 famously suffers from severe engine restrictions. 20181216 15:08:09<+wesdiscordbot> Indeed. 20181216 15:08:20<+wesdiscordbot> 76 is an absolutely trainwreck from what I hear 20181216 15:08:34<+wesdiscordbot> @Ravana "You have no units available to recruit" 20181216 15:09:28<+wesdiscordbot> I'm actually very disappointed to hear they might stick with the same engine up through Elder Scrolls 6 😦 20181216 15:09:53<+wesdiscordbot> Using the "same engine" wouldn't be a problem if they improved it over time. 20181216 15:10:13< Ravana> droid the side 20181216 15:10:19< Ravana> then error message says what is missing 20181216 15:10:34<+wesdiscordbot> Look at Unreal Engine, for example. The first game that uses it shipped in 1998, and it's still considered a perfectly decent AAA game engine. 20181216 15:11:24<+wesdiscordbot> So they say they are doing. But then again.... look at Fallout 76 😬 I view it as similar to what we have here with Wesnoth. We improved the engine many many times over, but at some point the fundamental limitations of its core design become a limiting factor. 20181216 15:11:45< Ravana> small playtest worked for me with people without the era 20181216 15:12:06<+wesdiscordbot> (wow that was a very bad tautology) 20181216 15:12:09<+wesdiscordbot> Even the core design can be changed. In software development, absolutely nothing is set in stone. 20181216 15:12:17<+wesdiscordbot> I'm playing locally, not online 20181216 15:12:22<+wesdiscordbot> let me try again and droid the side 20181216 15:12:37<+wesdiscordbot> Certainly. 20181216 15:12:59<+wesdiscordbot> The question is, will they? The company's in a weird place right now. 20181216 15:13:13<+wesdiscordbot> @Ravana There's no error message 20181216 15:13:50< Ravana> host the game and I will come 20181216 15:15:05<+wesdiscordbot> one moment 20181216 15:16:12<+wesdiscordbot> Certainly the fact that Titanfall is built on Source shows old isn't necessarily bad, ftr 20181216 15:16:22-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181216 15:16:45<+wesdiscordbot> Ravana, hosting 20181216 15:18:33<+wesdiscordbot> From what I have heard, it appears that Gamebryo (Bethesda's engine) is tile-based. Tile-based design does have advantages (it makes creating levels quite cheap and fast), but also comes with restrictions (areas tend to look relatively similar and even copy-pasted). That's the most fundamental decision in Gamebryo's design. 20181216 15:19:03<+wesdiscordbot> So it sounds like Bethesda has intentionally stuck with tile-based design in order to reduce level design costs. 20181216 15:19:20<+wesdiscordbot> Yeah, I also heard they kept the tile-based design after they modified and rebranded it as the Creation Engine. 20181216 15:19:30<+wesdiscordbot> Todd Howard just recently said they like their editor 20181216 15:23:01<+wesdiscordbot> But it's their broader attitude towards bugs in their games that I find so weird. Beyond just the limitations of their engines, they just seem.... uninterested in bug fixes. For example, they could have easily incorporated the unofficial skyrim bug patches into the game with the release of the Special Edition... they did not. Nor did they even bother to fix some bugs that were in Fallout 4 before releasing Fallout 76. I 20181216 15:23:02<+wesdiscordbot> heard of people encountering an issue that had been fixed by unofficial patches in FO4 reappearing in FO76, despite them having had years to fix it. 20181216 15:24:10<+wesdiscordbot> It seems odd when a small indie team such as ourselves puts more effort into squashing bugs than a big AAA studio 😐 20181216 15:24:17<+wesdiscordbot> Aren't unofficial patches written in assembly? (Since people outside the company don't have access to the source code, they have no option other than to edit machine code directly.) 20181216 15:25:05<+wesdiscordbot> Such a patch isn't trivial to backport into the source code at all. Developers would need to figure out in which function the patch landed, then reverse engineer what exactly the patch changed. 20181216 15:25:47<+wesdiscordbot> I don't think so? 20181216 15:26:07<+wesdiscordbot> The Skyrim patches are all mods. 20181216 15:26:27<+wesdiscordbot> That are loaded the same as any other mod 20181216 15:27:08<+wesdiscordbot> And IIRC do not require the Skyrim Script Extender which is Black Magick No One Understands 20181216 15:27:17<+wesdiscordbot> Right. Forgot that those games support modding. 20181216 15:27:55-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181216 15:28:02<+wesdiscordbot> They could have literally just downloaded the patch mods and shipped them with the game. But they did not. 20181216 15:29:39<+wesdiscordbot> Yeah, if those mods ship with source code (or better, ship as some kind of scripting language), then integrating them directly in the engine would have been quite easy. Assuming that the license agreement gives them the right to do that (which should be a safe assumption, as generally game EULAs give the developers almost unlimited permission to use player-made content). 20181216 15:31:33<+wesdiscordbot> Indeed. And the FO76 example is even more egregious because it's supposed to be a brand new game and not simply a visual upgrade. 20181216 15:34:30<+wesdiscordbot> And then there's stuff like Bethedsa not actually implementing proper 21:9 support in FO76 despite them claiming to do so in a recent patch. They just applied a .ini tweak which may or may not be the same one the community was already using. 20181216 15:34:42<+wesdiscordbot> So even when they do claim to fix something, they don't really. 20181216 15:36:55<+wesdiscordbot> And if what you surmise about their embrace of the tile-based system is true, then it indeed seems like the company as a whole is simply going with what is fast and easy instead of anything actually good or proper. 20181216 15:42:22<+wesdiscordbot> anyone knows about the hotkey system. it seems that the hotkey in game and in editor are registered in play_controller and editor_controller. But for the titlescreen, there exists no controller and hotkeys are registered in titlescreen and global hotkey in window.cpp? 20181216 15:43:00<+wesdiscordbot> @sapient_n3t @Vultraz celmin: Thanks, I'll have a look and see if I can figure out how to remove the mutable. 20181216 15:43:45<+wesdiscordbot> Otherwise I'll just leave the TODO. Taking care of every single TODO in the AI code is beyond the scope of what I am trying to do, so leaving a few in is fine. 20181216 15:44:22<+wesdiscordbot> @Nostromus Title screen hotkeys are registered in this function: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/5978228551c1e200ed984a38a766669aa4cd3632/src/gui/dialogs/title_screen.cpp#L193 20181216 15:44:57<+wesdiscordbot> some hotkeys are not working in titlescreen, screenshot and mute sound for example. And it seems they dont work, because they are never registered in titlescreen.cpp 20181216 15:45:44<+wesdiscordbot> Yep. It's intentional. The normal hotkey system only works ingame. 20181216 15:47:40<+wesdiscordbot> yeah, so the missing hotkeys need to be registered in titlescreen to work for https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/3235 20181216 15:50:51<+wesdiscordbot> @Ravana ^ (PR) 20181216 15:51:09<+wesdiscordbot> @Ravana https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/3787 20181216 15:52:40-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181216 15:55:29-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181216 15:56:02-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181216 15:56:05-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181216 15:56:36-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181216 15:58:50-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181216 15:59:40-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181216 16:23:08-!- celmin|sleep is now known as celticminstrel 20181216 18:07:14-!- irker645 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181216 18:07:14< irker645> wesnoth: newfrenchy83 wesnoth:master f264dc6c8602 / src/units/abilities.cpp: fix lowest sub used instead of highest https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f264dc6c86025c90f3a3c0835b2081e5be7452a9 20181216 18:36:27-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20181216 18:37:48-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181216 19:22:46-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181216 19:23:48-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181216 21:06:06-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181216 21:07:12-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181216 21:07:20-!- irker645 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20181216 23:04:54-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20181216 23:05:27-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181216 23:16:39-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20181216 23:41:02-!- wedge010 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20181216 23:43:07-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20181216 23:43:07-!- wedge010 is now known as wedge009 20181216 23:54:06-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] --- Log closed Mon Dec 17 00:00:52 2018