--- Log opened Fri Dec 28 00:00:08 2018 20181228 00:20:46<+wesdiscordbot> TRoW was inspired by WoW, wasn't it? 20181228 01:35:10<+wesdiscordbot> I wouldn't know 20181228 01:35:14<+wesdiscordbot> Sorry 😢 20181228 02:03:35-!- Haudegen [~quassel@cm56-229-75.liwest.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20181228 06:06:21-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20181228 06:35:36-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|sleep 20181228 06:54:31<+wesdiscordbot> @Konrad2 I dunno if it was, but I named my WoW undead priest "Jevyan" 20181228 06:55:01<+wesdiscordbot> Which is ironic because I roleplayed him as a really chill and friendly person 20181228 08:55:12-!- Slacer [~yamit@16.red-79-157-192.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #wesnoth 20181228 09:29:10<+wesdiscordbot> I think it's partially inspired 20181228 09:29:18<+wesdiscordbot> some details are similar 20181228 09:30:13<+wesdiscordbot> Like I think this happens in WoW, don't blame me if it didn't humans having to escape from a new enemy by a long eastward journey via the sea 20181228 09:31:39<+wesdiscordbot> I have next to no knowledge of wow, but I got a friend who plays it so I might have some details wrong, but don't get after me or blame me too much if I got the details wrong 20181228 09:49:07-!- Slacer [~yamit@16.red-79-157-192.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20181228 10:02:50<+wesdiscordbot> @Not Hamel Almost. Not eastward, northward and then again westward 20181228 10:03:15<+wesdiscordbot> Also, orcs coming from portals 20181228 10:03:25<+wesdiscordbot> Alright 20181228 10:04:19<+wesdiscordbot> The original Warcraft's story was "orcs come from portals summoned by evil possessed sorcerer, wreck southern human kingdom, southern humans flee to northern human kingdom" 20181228 10:05:04<+wesdiscordbot> Then later on, northern human kingdom defeats the orcs, but then undead appear from the far north and wreck the northern human kingdom, causing them to flee to the western continent 20181228 10:05:20<+wesdiscordbot> Ahh, okay. 20181228 10:05:35<+wesdiscordbot> Alongside the surviving orcs, who decided to be a bit more peaceful from now on 20181228 10:06:11<+wesdiscordbot> Later the southern human kingdom was resettled, and the northern human kingdom was freed from the undead... sort of 20181228 10:07:18<+wesdiscordbot> Its people regained their intelligence and drove away the liches who raised them, so now it is a kingdom of intelligent free-willed undead 20181228 10:07:54<+wesdiscordbot> I actually consider them to be the coolest race in the setting and I really think if something similar could be introduced to Wesnoth: intelligent undead 20181228 10:13:41<+wesdiscordbot> @Konrad2 One thing I do not understand about Kalenz 20181228 10:14:01<+wesdiscordbot> How can he wield a (presumably iron) sword and use fairy magic at the same time 20181228 10:25:39<+wesdiscordbot> @Rio Sempre It's not iron, it's some unknown metal the elves forge for their Lords. 20181228 10:25:48<+wesdiscordbot> That's canon. 20181228 10:26:28<+wesdiscordbot> So he is a fairy elf that circumvents the " no iron" rule 20181228 11:35:03-!- Slacer [~yamit@16.red-79-157-192.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #wesnoth 20181228 12:14:12<+wesdiscordbot> Well, no? 20181228 12:14:55<+wesdiscordbot> I don't know how you gathered that from my answer. I literally wrote that it isn't iron. 😅 20181228 12:15:32-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20181228 12:28:58-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20181228 12:54:02-!- Haudegen [~quassel@cm56-229-75.liwest.at] has joined #wesnoth 20181228 13:38:48<+wesdiscordbot> As in, he goes around the "can't use weapons because iron" rule by using special metal that is not iron 20181228 13:56:08<+wesdiscordbot> Well the rule wouldn't work against any sort of bows too probably 20181228 14:01:51<+wesdiscordbot> I guess you could say that, but he is nothing special in that regard. 20181228 14:04:17<+wesdiscordbot> It's a bit like saying archers go around the 'can't use ranged attack because melee weapon' rule by using ranged weapons. 😅 20181228 15:28:12-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20181228 15:56:18-!- celmin|sleep is now known as celticminstrel 20181228 16:04:34< celticminstrel> "can't use weapons because iron" doesn't make any sense whatsoever. 20181228 16:04:51< celticminstrel> You can make weapons from stone, bronze, or even wood. You don't need iron at all. 20181228 16:05:08< celticminstrel> Admittedly, those generally aren't as good as iron weapons. But it's still possible to do it. 20181228 16:32:30-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has joined #wesnoth 20181228 16:56:50<+wesdiscordbot> swap iron for sacred silver :kag_wink: 20181228 16:57:15< celticminstrel> Silver does not a good weapon make. It's even worse than bronze. 20181228 16:57:23< celticminstrel> I doubt it could hold an edge. 20181228 17:02:16<+wesdiscordbot> silver hammers are awesome 20181228 17:02:22<+wesdiscordbot> every DF player knows that 20181228 17:02:47< celticminstrel> Silver hammers would not be able to hammer anything useful. 20181228 17:02:55< celticminstrel> I guess you could hammer your pastries with them. 20181228 17:04:38<+wesdiscordbot> so I take it pastries have -50% vulnerability to impact? 20181228 17:04:42<+wesdiscordbot> silver got high density so silver hammers smash really well due to the fact they have the the same mass as for exame, iron ones, while staying relatively smaller, so better impact outcome due to lower impact zone 20181228 17:04:44<+wesdiscordbot> :GWcfcThonk: 20181228 17:05:01< celticminstrel> More like silver weapons have -50% impact strength? 20181228 17:05:30< celticminstrel> Yeah I suppose they could smash well as long as it's not something that's even harder than silver. 20181228 17:05:50<+wesdiscordbot> there's room for a weapon special here. "First strike is 10HP, second and later strikes are 5HP each" 20181228 17:06:11<+wesdiscordbot> (because the hammer/sword broke on first use) 20181228 17:06:15< celticminstrel> XD 20181228 17:06:29< celticminstrel> Maybe a silver hammer is not as bad as a silver sword, I dunno. 20181228 17:06:32<+wesdiscordbot> probably make the HP go down over turns or something because RNG 20181228 17:06:41<+wesdiscordbot> silver hammer is gud but expensiiive 20181228 17:06:48<+wesdiscordbot> I'm not going to do the pun about silver bullets 20181228 17:06:49<+wesdiscordbot> doesn't matter for heroes i quess 20181228 17:06:56< celticminstrel> But it's still useless for a number of things you'd use hammers for. I don't think you could hammer many nails in with it. 20181228 17:09:12< celticminstrel> I highly doubt you could effectively forge iron weapons with a silver hammer, either. 20181228 17:11:08<+wesdiscordbot> hammer enemies tho 20181228 17:11:23<+wesdiscordbot> since we were like 20181228 17:11:26<+wesdiscordbot> talking about enemies 20181228 17:11:46<+wesdiscordbot> hitting undead creatures is bludgeoning AND mystical damage, so superop 20181228 17:14:42< celticminstrel> I have no idea how effective silver would be for that, but I suppose it should be reasonably effective. 20181228 17:15:05< celticminstrel> Since for that application it doesn't lose its effectiveness even if it gets a few dents. 20181228 17:15:23< celticminstrel> Still shouldn't be as effective as iron, of course. 20181228 17:15:39<+wesdiscordbot> pretty sure dented hammers are as effective as undented ones are 20181228 17:15:39< celticminstrel> But you say mystical damage, so obviously this isn't ordinary silver in the first place. 20181228 17:15:45<+wesdiscordbot> :GWcfcThonk: 20181228 17:15:49< celticminstrel> Well, that depends on the dents. 20181228 17:16:13< celticminstrel> And what you're doing with the hammer. 20181228 17:19:09<+wesdiscordbot> just smaaash 20181228 17:19:19<+wesdiscordbot> this works finely 20181228 17:36:23< celticminstrel> Not if it's full of huge dents and you're trying to hammer in a nail. 20181228 17:39:04<+wesdiscordbot> who cares about nails at warfare :GWcfcThonk: 20181228 17:39:54< celticminstrel> Very few people I imagine. I did say it would still probably be reasonably effective in combat. 20181228 17:46:42<+wesdiscordbot> yeah 20181228 17:46:47<+wesdiscordbot> that's the point 20181228 18:08:01<+wesdiscordbot> A teleporting unit on a village shouldn't lift the fog around fogged village (that belong to that side) right? 20181228 18:08:50<+wesdiscordbot> I don’t see why it shouldn’t 20181228 18:09:04<+wesdiscordbot> :GWcfcThonk: 20181228 18:09:06<+wesdiscordbot> He can just pop his head over and take a look around when ever needed 20181228 18:09:43<+wesdiscordbot> @Konrad2 do you mean seeing fog around other villages you could move to by teleporting? 20181228 18:10:05<+wesdiscordbot> yes, you should see fog, if it'd the case 20181228 18:10:27<+wesdiscordbot> I'm not seeing fog there, that's the problem. 20181228 18:10:53<+wesdiscordbot> :GWcfcThonk: 20181228 18:11:01<+wesdiscordbot> @rohiik Teleporting costs one MP, that's two MP for taking a look and going back. 20181228 18:11:24<+wesdiscordbot> Yeah, but he’s just teleporting his head over for a look see 20181228 18:11:45<+wesdiscordbot> Much less strenuous 20181228 18:13:17<+wesdiscordbot> typical fog uplifting is just vision, your character doesn't actually run all the cells around to inspect them 20181228 18:13:22<+wesdiscordbot> i quess 20181228 18:13:31<+wesdiscordbot> wesnoth vision is really weird 20181228 18:16:54<+wesdiscordbot> celticminstrel 20181228 18:17:23< celticminstrel> ? 20181228 18:17:37<+wesdiscordbot> A teleporting unit on a village shouldn't lift the fog around fogged village (that belong to that side), right? 20181228 18:18:23<+wesdiscordbot> Because it does do that for me and I'm unsure whether it's a bug or not. 20181228 18:18:32< celticminstrel> Pretty sure it shouldn't. I think that behavioud has become the default in the tunnel tag though; but the built-in teleport ability should have disabled it. 20181228 18:18:36< celticminstrel> ^behaviour 20181228 18:19:44<+wesdiscordbot> It occurs for me both in AtS and TRoW. 😦 20181228 18:20:20< celticminstrel> I don't suppose you loaded saves from pre-1.14? 20181228 18:21:00<+wesdiscordbot> I'm checking and testing whether it happens in a campaign I start right now. 20181228 18:21:12-!- Tobbi [~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20181228 18:22:57<+wesdiscordbot> Isn't pre 1.14 and it happens with this new campaign as well. 20181228 18:23:17<+wesdiscordbot> (Started HttT and skipped to Isle of the Damned) 20181228 18:23:58< celticminstrel> ...? 20181228 18:24:05< celticminstrel> mattsc: Can you comment on this? 20181228 18:25:48< celticminstrel> I thought we added allow_vision=no to the teleport ability? But it's clearly not there, I just checked. Did we decide not to? 20181228 18:29:17-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20181228 18:31:28-!- Haudegen [~quassel@cm56-229-75.liwest.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20181228 18:31:40<+wesdiscordbot> celticminstrel: All you need to do is a hammer of iron or some other hard material, covered in silver coating 20181228 18:31:45<+wesdiscordbot> Undead die in seconds 20181228 18:32:45< celticminstrel> That's fair. A silver-coated iron hammer would be as effective as a plain iron hammer... though I wonder how quickly the silver coating would come off. 20181228 18:33:40<+wesdiscordbot> That being said, silver would not work here, because silver is a "holy" material, and presumably elves would be allergic to it as well 20181228 18:33:56< celticminstrel> ??? 20181228 18:35:12<+wesdiscordbot> I dunno 20181228 18:35:18<+wesdiscordbot> What does Celtic folklore say about fairies and silver? 20181228 18:35:38< celticminstrel> AFAIK it doesn't say anything. 20181228 18:35:55< celticminstrel> They only hate iron and fire IIRC. 20181228 18:56:59< Slacer> hello, do you know a place where people share their UI themes? 20181228 18:57:15< celticminstrel> I don't think many people make UI themes. 20181228 18:57:37< Slacer> I've only found this https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=41065 20181228 18:57:43< Slacer> celticminstrel, I see 20181228 18:58:08< Slacer> what a shame :-( 20181228 18:59:16-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212095005115.public.telering.at] has joined #wesnoth 20181228 18:59:34< Slacer> BTW, I love the "to lands unknown campaign" 20181228 19:05:45< Ravana> it is the only campaign I have finished 20181228 19:32:23<+wesdiscordbot> there's an asymmetric theme on the forums https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=633133#p589619 20181228 19:32:50<+wesdiscordbot> I actually use a variation of it, it's convenient 20181228 19:32:57<+wesdiscordbot> Slacer ^ 20181228 19:56:37<+wesdiscordbot> you should finish more campaigns 20181228 19:56:42<+wesdiscordbot> when you can that is 20181228 20:04:29< Ravana> I haven't noticed anything of comparable quality 20181228 20:07:50<+wesdiscordbot> Am I the only person who associates the elves in Wesnoth with Viet Cong 20181228 20:12:26<+wesdiscordbot> Thanks for clearing that up last night, Rio. Funnily enough, I have a coincidentally similar plotline in one of my plots. 20181228 20:13:51<+wesdiscordbot> Basically, without going into too much detail, a kingdom is invaded, the survivors retreat south, kingdom's remnants fall, the survivors go to another kingdom in the south which doesn't accept them, so to survive, they take a really long sea journey to another continent to reestablish their kingdom 20181228 20:14:40<+wesdiscordbot> Basically seafaring Jews 20181228 20:14:42<+wesdiscordbot> Pretty cool 20181228 20:15:22<+wesdiscordbot> well, the kingdom itself is a mix of scottish accents and roman culture 20181228 20:15:56<+wesdiscordbot> Oh, that I actually found weird in Wesnoth portraits 20181228 20:16:03<+wesdiscordbot> Some dwarves look Medieval, others look Roman 20181228 20:16:05<+wesdiscordbot> No consistency here 20181228 20:16:10<+wesdiscordbot> ah 20181228 20:17:17<+wesdiscordbot> well, I have a habit of assigning an accent and culture to each of the nations, which is 17 in all, but no more than 7 exist at a time 20181228 20:17:44<+wesdiscordbot> a lot of those are just shifts, like Kingdom of X going thru a revolution then going to Kingdom of New X 20181228 20:17:51<+wesdiscordbot> or New Kingdom of X 20181228 20:18:31<+wesdiscordbot> x being a variable 20181228 20:20:41<+wesdiscordbot> and others are just splits of a nation, but the rest are new nations being founded 20181228 20:23:40<+wesdiscordbot> I've been working on this plot for ~4 years, so it's gotten pretty complex since then 20181228 20:31:18< mattsc> celticminstrel, @Konrad2 I think what you remember is the allow_vision= key of the [tunnel] tag: https://wiki.wesnoth.org/DirectActionsWML#.5Btunnel.5D 20181228 20:31:46< mattsc> Also, I thought the standard teleport was implemented via tunnels these days, so it would default to allow_vision=yes. 20181228 20:31:54< mattsc> I might be wrong about the latter though. 20181228 20:32:38< mattsc> _Something_ is done via the [tunnel] tag, but I forgot the details. It’s been too long. 20181228 20:33:56< Slacer> josteph, thank you :-) 20181228 20:49:00<+wesdiscordbot> @mattsc So, having vision on otherwise fogged hexes by means of a teleporting unit near one of your village is intended? 20181228 20:56:07-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212095005115.public.telering.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20181228 20:56:26<+wesdiscordbot> @Konrad2 Yes, it is. Whatever the motion range of the unit is is unfogged. 20181228 20:59:09<+wesdiscordbot> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/790 20181228 21:00:23<+wesdiscordbot> This followed quite a bit of discussion on the dev channel that this is the behavior we think makes more sense. The allow_vision key was added in order to restore the old behavior where desired. 20181228 21:01:06<+wesdiscordbot> Or possibly discussion on the forums? As I said, I don't remember the details, but I know it was discussed. 20181228 21:03:00<+wesdiscordbot> It's also explained in the 1.13.6 release announcement: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=44809&p=604774&hilit=tunnel+vision#p604774 20181228 21:23:42-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has joined #wesnoth 20181228 22:03:43-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20181228 22:11:33<+wesdiscordbot> @mattsc But how do you explain this gamemechanic in the world of Wesnoth? Why does a teleporting unit have vision somewhere without teleporting there first? 20181228 22:15:02<+wesdiscordbot> something like "their mastery of spatial manipulation grants them a degree of extra-sensory perception, allowing them to glimpse the surroundings of any location they are able to reach"? 20181228 22:28:28<+wesdiscordbot> @Konrad2 How do you explain them seeing something on the other side of mountains that's within their normal movement range without moving there first? 20181228 22:29:58<+wesdiscordbot> Touché. I just have to get over my outdated knowledge regarding this. 20181228 22:30:05<+wesdiscordbot> Thanks for the explanation. 20181228 22:31:27<+wesdiscordbot> @Konrad2 Well, sometimes there is no right answer and we do what we think works "best", whatever that means. 20181228 22:31:56<+wesdiscordbot> And in some cases we just have to invoke WINR, and game mechanics trumps realism. 20181228 22:32:07<+wesdiscordbot> Adapting to the context. :) 20181228 22:32:33<+wesdiscordbot> 😃 20181228 22:51:04-!- Slacer [~yamit@16.red-79-157-192.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] --- Log closed Sat Dec 29 00:00:09 2018