--- Log opened Sat Mar 23 00:00:04 2019 20190323 00:06:02-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@2001:44b8:21b3:4001:22a3:9329:3be9:823] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20190323 00:35:42-!- celmin|away is now known as celticminstrel 20190323 00:44:48-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20190323 00:46:54-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 01:22:55-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 01:46:22-!- madmax28_ [~madmax28@2001-4dd6-d643-0-ba27-ebff-febc-e0cb.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 01:47:07-!- madmax28 [~madmax28@xdsl-89-0-95-58.nc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20190323 02:17:07-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20190323 02:35:08-!- irker263 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20190323 02:35:15-!- irker831 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 02:35:16< irker831> wesnoth/wesnoth:master josteph 81077c3969 Fix #2852: Reset statistics when rewindi AppVeyor: All builds passed 20190323 03:53:27-!- celticminstrel is now known as celminsleep 20190323 04:41:53< irker831> wesnoth/wesnoth:master josteph 59c97214ef Also fix #2852 when using "Back to turn" AppVeyor: All builds passed 20190323 05:30:11-!- aidanhs [~aidanhs@81.4.110.234] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 06:08:04< irker831> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 nemaara 820d99d590 Merge pull request #3991 from stevecotto AppVeyor: All builds passed 20190323 07:29:33-!- wedge010 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 07:30:55-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20190323 07:32:18-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 07:33:43-!- wedge010 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20190323 07:45:26-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 08:13:06< irker831> wesnoth/wesnoth:master nemaara 49eab2867d UtBS: use mainline nightblade animation AppVeyor: All builds passed 20190323 10:13:57-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 10:29:23-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20190323 11:13:16-!- irker831 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20190323 11:40:52-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20190323 11:57:54-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 12:00:33-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20190323 13:38:56-!- wedge010 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 13:40:30-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20190323 13:40:31-!- wedge010 is now known as wedge009 20190323 13:46:42-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20190323 13:53:26-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 14:08:21-!- irker140 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 14:08:21< irker140> wesnoth: Steve Cotton wesnoth:1.14 f3419b7f868d / data/ai/ (maps/scenario-high_xp_attack.map scenarios/scenario-high_xp_attack.cfg): Test scenario High XP Attack: use the map that it expects https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f3419b7f868d538e9a5cb3aa40f8b88ca4dea734 20190323 14:08:21< irker140> wesnoth: nemaara wesnoth:1.14 2b1d50175824 / data/ai/ (maps/scenario-high_xp_attack.map scenarios/scenario-high_xp_attack.cfg): Merge pull request #3998 from stevecotton/map_high_xp_attack https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/2b1d5017582410e22a8f40c97a88ffe48d3ebd1d 20190323 14:11:24< irker140> wesnoth: Steve Cotton wesnoth:master 3420bb17eafc / data/ai/ (maps/scenario-high_xp_attack.map scenarios/scenario-high_xp_attack.cfg): Test scenario High XP Attack: use the map that it expects https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/3420bb17eafc7b56a4897de7789313cef6341a83 20190323 14:16:38-!- wedge010 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 14:18:20-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20190323 14:18:20-!- wedge010 is now known as wedge009 20190323 14:43:33-!- celminsleep is now known as celticminstrel 20190323 15:03:14-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 15:09:36<+wesdiscordbot> 903 issues … going down 20190323 15:35:47< celticminstrel> 👍 20190323 15:37:19< celticminstrel> I should resolve my PRs... >_> 20190323 15:47:51<+wesdiscordbot> Quick update on Project Haldric. Progress is coming along quite nicely. It's amazing how much easier it is to work with Godot than the 1.x engine. 20190323 15:48:22< celticminstrel> "nicely" 20190323 15:49:22<+wesdiscordbot> Yes. 20190323 15:51:56<+wesdiscordbot> Very basic in-game map editor implemented. Tiles (still mostly no transitions) drawing. Units can be placed and moved (I just made them follow a Bezier curve path with easings instead of the linear center-of-hex-to-center-of-hex movement). Pathfinding set up (ASta). HUD is starting to take shape. 20190323 15:52:13< celticminstrel> "ASta" what 20190323 15:52:17< celticminstrel> You mean A* right 20190323 15:52:21<+wesdiscordbot> yes 20190323 15:52:24<+wesdiscordbot> forgot the r 20190323 15:52:30< celticminstrel> Oh okay. 20190323 15:53:06< celticminstrel> That bezier thing sounds questionable. 20190323 15:53:26<+wesdiscordbot> not really 20190323 15:53:32< celticminstrel> Yes. 20190323 15:53:43<+wesdiscordbot> it just means units now take a path that curves at the corners 20190323 15:53:50< celticminstrel> Hmm. 20190323 15:54:01< celticminstrel> That's kinda what's questionable about it tho? 20190323 15:54:10<+wesdiscordbot> the effect is subtle 20190323 15:54:15< celticminstrel> Hmm. 20190323 15:54:26< celticminstrel> Well, it's not like it matters for me anyway, right. 20190323 15:56:00<+wesdiscordbot> ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 20190323 15:57:07<+wesdiscordbot> when do you think we can start making campaigns in the prototype 20190323 15:57:10<+wesdiscordbot> i tweeted a teaser the other day and we got to trending on r/godot. We also got mention on r/linux_gaming, an unofficial godot keynote vid, and a mention on gamingonlinux. 20190323 15:57:22< celticminstrel> Eh... 20190323 15:57:32<+wesdiscordbot> @Yumi still a bit of a way off 20190323 15:57:45< celticminstrel> So have you reconsidered the WML thing yet 20190323 15:58:10<+wesdiscordbot> nope 😛 20190323 15:58:19< celticminstrel> Are you at least gonna use Lua 20190323 16:05:01<+wesdiscordbot> Short answer: possibly but not presently. Long answer: it's complicated. We were originally going to develop things so the dev workflow would in some ways mimic 1.x's. You have your scenario config files, your map files, etc. The UMC API would be a Lua one. But then I realized two things. First, doing that means we cannot take full advantage of the Godot workflow and engine editor. Second, coding a UMC API means modders 20190323 16:05:01<+wesdiscordbot> would face the same problem as 1.x, wherein if a feature did not exist in said API they were basically stuck. Think inferno8. If he wanted video cutscenes and we didn't have support for video cutscenes, he would't be able to do video cutscenes. So we decided to switch to a workflow more integrated with Godot and which would give modders access to the full engine's capabilities. But we're still considering a Lua-based UMC API down 20190323 16:05:02<+wesdiscordbot> the road for people who want to code simple scenarios ALA Wesnoth 1. 20190323 16:05:45<+wesdiscordbot> (Also I'm not going to argue these points. I'm simply stating what we're doing) 20190323 16:05:50< celticminstrel> IOW it's not really Wesnoth 2, it's just a Wesnoth clone. 20190323 16:06:02<+wesdiscordbot> it's version 2.0 20190323 16:06:06< celticminstrel> Nope 20190323 16:06:23<+wesdiscordbot> why not? 20190323 16:06:41< celticminstrel> Totally different 20190323 16:07:01<+wesdiscordbot> I don't follow 20190323 16:07:19<+wesdiscordbot> You say it's not wesnoth 2 because it's a clone but totally different 20190323 16:11:47<+wesdiscordbot> Anyway, I also have plans for total revamps/rewrites of mainline campaigns as they're added to 2.0. 20190323 16:12:05<+wesdiscordbot> We aren't going to just re-add everything verbatim. 20190323 16:12:36<+wesdiscordbot> Engine design is great, but our actual storytelling and worldbuilding... kinda sucks. 20190323 16:12:50< celticminstrel> Sounds like way too much work. 20190323 16:12:50<+wesdiscordbot> (great and all to focus on) 20190323 16:12:59<+wesdiscordbot> ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 20190323 16:13:04<+wesdiscordbot> you're not the one doing the work 20190323 16:13:08< celticminstrel> True. 20190323 16:13:21<+wesdiscordbot> and you'd be amazed how much can be done when you don't need to spend a month coding a titlescreen 20190323 16:13:45< celticminstrel> Pretty sure coding a titlescreen shouldn't take a month even in the old engine... 20190323 16:14:47<+wesdiscordbot> Also, campaign improvements are worth the effort. 20190323 16:14:59<+wesdiscordbot> there still needs to be a UMC API though. saying "here's godot, have fun with the editor" isn't great either, and blanket access to basically everything godot can do like that will give people many more opportunities to shoot themselves in the foot. 20190323 16:15:14<+wesdiscordbot> Indeed so. 20190323 16:15:42<+wesdiscordbot> That should be for more advanced or adventurous users. 20190323 16:25:44<+wesdiscordbot> We are also thinking about an in-game scenario editor that includes a scripting box. So you could build maps, place units and script events all in-game. 20190323 16:26:02<+wesdiscordbot> For simple stuff. 20190323 16:28:56<+wesdiscordbot> Of your want complex, you have the power of the Godot Engine. But a standard scenario with dialoque events should be possible with an in game editor. And Godot also has a build in mod support, basically. You can export PCK files and load them on runtime. That would make nice one-file mods. But having the susual folder structure would be just as possible to do. 20190323 16:29:17<+wesdiscordbot> (as the engine treats both the same way) 20190323 16:31:21<+wesdiscordbot> no sandboxing though, which I don't like. though for me at least I can set it up to run in firejail. 20190323 16:31:33<+wesdiscordbot> dunno what exists for other OSes 20190323 16:32:01<+wesdiscordbot> there is c# sandboxing 20190323 16:32:14<+wesdiscordbot> still need to figure sandboxing out entirely, though 20190323 16:32:18<+wesdiscordbot> but we'll work on that down the line 20190323 16:33:22<+wesdiscordbot> can c# sandbox individual gdscript mods though? I thought it was mostly limited to sandboxing other c#. 20190323 16:33:35<+wesdiscordbot> again, not sure 20190323 16:34:09<+wesdiscordbot> if the core is sandboxed it's likely that means the scripts it runs are also sandboxed. 20190323 16:34:17< celticminstrel> Why do I get the impression that this new engine is being constructed in much the same way as the old one 20190323 16:35:03<+wesdiscordbot> I really don't care what your impressions are, celmin. 20190323 16:35:10< loonycyborg> I think the way forward is genre specific game engines 20190323 16:35:51< loonycyborg> wesnoth could be considered genre engine for hex-based strategies 20190323 16:36:03<+wesdiscordbot> anyway, that's all from me on the matter. 20190323 16:36:07<+wesdiscordbot> I gave you all a small update 20190323 16:36:11<+wesdiscordbot> I'm not here to argue 20190323 16:36:25< loonycyborg> and it could only work out as one if it's design process is appropriate to such an abstraction 20190323 16:36:27< celticminstrel> Meh 20190323 16:36:47< loonycyborg> it seems to me that all newer engines see everything as scene graph 20190323 16:37:04< loonycyborg> making game design as hard as doing 3d scenes in blender 20190323 16:37:14< celticminstrel> I wonder how Godot compares to Unreal (or Unity too I guess) in terms of sheer size. 20190323 16:37:51< loonycyborg> while a genre specific engine would provide you with tools appropriate for this genre 20190323 16:38:04<+wesdiscordbot> The way forward clearly is to sit under a tree telling people what to do 20190323 16:38:09< loonycyborg> like for wesnoth you will directly see maps/units/events etc 20190323 16:38:13< celticminstrel> XD 20190323 16:38:21<+wesdiscordbot> We all love doing that because it takes 0 effort 20190323 16:39:20<+wesdiscordbot> > IOW it's not really Wesnoth 2, it's just a Wesnoth clone. We wish it could be a true wesnoth 2.0, like with all new graphics and all new sounds. The thing is as things stand we simply don't have the resources / hands to do that. 20190323 16:39:59< celticminstrel> I'm still mostly concerned about compatibility with 1.x - if that's not there I probably won't be convinced to switch. 20190323 16:40:19<+wesdiscordbot> That's your own choice 20190323 16:40:29< celticminstrel> New graphics and sounds? I don't know why you'd even consider that. 20190323 16:40:43<+wesdiscordbot> Can't say I personally would feel too concerned about that choice being made 20190323 16:46:09< loonycyborg> hmm so if godot sees everything as scene graph 20190323 16:46:20< loonycyborg> would every map tile in wesnoth a node for it? 20190323 16:46:33< loonycyborg> or nodes will be even smaller than that? 20190323 16:47:49< loonycyborg> if every node is scriptable 20190323 16:48:03< loonycyborg> then it could have performance implications for larger maps 20190323 16:50:06< celticminstrel> Mind you, wesnoth 1.x also performs pretty badly for larger maps. 20190323 16:50:17<+wesdiscordbot> the map as a whole is a node 20190323 16:51:41< loonycyborg> How is it represented internally? As in wesnoth1? With some text symbols? 20190323 16:51:56<+wesdiscordbot> maps are arrays of symbols 20190323 16:53:01<+wesdiscordbot> there's a built-in TileMap type 20190323 16:53:19< celticminstrel> Does it even handle hexmaps 20190323 16:53:31< celticminstrel> Or did you/Bitron have to code that part 20190323 16:53:38<+wesdiscordbot> it can be made to handle it 20190323 16:54:06< celticminstrel> That doesn't actually answer the question 20190323 16:56:05<+wesdiscordbot> sigh if you really want to know, the hex map can be accomplished by setting the grid size to 54x72 and enabling half-y-offset on alternating columns 20190323 16:57:06< celticminstrel> IOW it does handle it built-in? 20190323 16:57:20<+wesdiscordbot> partly 20190323 16:57:59<+wesdiscordbot> The TileMap can be set to have a y offset on odd columns, but to get the right neighbors of a tile we have a small hex class that does a bit of math for it. 20190323 16:58:30<+wesdiscordbot> https://github.com/wesnoth/haldric/blob/master/source/core/scenario/map/Hex.gd 20190323 16:59:27< celticminstrel> Oh it's like Python. 20190323 17:00:00< celticminstrel> Does it support transitive comparative operators too? 20190323 17:00:42< loonycyborg> what exactly does that mean? a > b > c? 20190323 17:00:56<+wesdiscordbot> uhh. I don't actually know what that is. But yeah, GDScript is mostly like python. It does lend a few things from Lua as well. 20190323 17:01:18<+wesdiscordbot> I mean transitive comparative operators 20190323 17:01:21< celticminstrel> In C/C++, a < b < c would be parsed as (a < b) < c ... or possibly a < (b < c), I can't remember. 20190323 17:01:48< celticminstrel> In Python, a < b < b is parsed as in mathematics, ie a < b && b < c 20190323 17:02:20<+wesdiscordbot> It's probably like in python, but I don't actually know. 20190323 17:03:28<+wesdiscordbot> you can test it here if you want 20190323 17:03:29<+wesdiscordbot> https://gd.tumeo.space/ 20190323 17:03:42<+wesdiscordbot> online GDScript runner. 20190323 17:05:55< celticminstrel> Aww, it doesn't work. 20190323 17:06:29< celticminstrel> Though it's nice that it gives an error at least. 20190323 17:06:37< celticminstrel> But it'd be nicer if it actually worked. 20190323 17:07:10<+wesdiscordbot> Well. The engine is open source. You could make it work, if you want. 😁 20190323 17:07:32< celticminstrel> Maybe if I ever felt like using Godot for something, but... 20190323 17:09:42< celticminstrel> ...fun weird side-effect of this in Python: 2<3>2 is True 20190323 17:10:02< celticminstrel> ie the operators don't all need to face the same direction 20190323 17:11:51-!- irker140 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20190323 17:11:58< loonycyborg> there's an option to use python with godot too 20190323 17:13:27< celticminstrel> More programming languages should implement transitive comparative operators tho. 20190323 17:18:05<+wesdiscordbot> godot supports a bunch of languages. I know of C#, C++, Phython, Lua, Rust and of course GDScript. 20190323 17:18:41< celticminstrel> Huh? It supports both C# and C++? That's kinda weird, which is it actually written in...? 20190323 17:18:57<+wesdiscordbot> The engine is written in c++ 20190323 17:20:36<+wesdiscordbot> didn't they drop lua though 20190323 17:20:47< celticminstrel> No JavaScript huh 20190323 17:21:21<+wesdiscordbot> They did when they had it as their main language. But there is still a module that you compile into the engine to have LUA for scripting. And C# only was added because Microsoft themselves sponsored it. 20190323 17:22:44<+wesdiscordbot> Mark here, only GDScript and C++ are working out of the box. For C# you need a specific build called "Godot Mono". All the other languages are modules and require you to compile the engine yourself, with said module wired in. 20190323 17:23:18< celticminstrel> They can't even load new modules at runtime!? 20190323 17:23:33<+wesdiscordbot> they can, via GDNative. 20190323 17:23:51< celticminstrel> You just said they can't. 20190323 17:23:55<+wesdiscordbot> Well 20190323 17:23:57<+wesdiscordbot> Depends 20190323 17:25:03<+wesdiscordbot> With GDNative you can't access the engines core. So if you want to add a new language it shall support, you gotta rebuild it. But other modules that, say, integrate SteamWorks, as an example, don't require a rebuild. 20190323 17:25:42< celticminstrel> Uh okay? 20190323 17:29:49<+wesdiscordbot> But honestly I don't see a reason why we would need another language. So far GDScript has been quite sufficient. And for bottlenecks we can still improve with C++ bits. 20190323 17:46:27-!- irker014 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 17:46:27< irker014> wesnoth: Severin Glöckner wesnoth:1.14 19368c9686d0 / po/ (9 files in 9 dirs): minor German translation update https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/19368c9686d0fbb85b2294dad23729b56f4a1c80 20190323 17:57:26-!- wedge010 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 17:58:49-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20190323 17:58:50-!- wedge010 is now known as wedge009 20190323 18:31:20-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 18:40:13-!- wedge010 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 18:41:45-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20190323 18:41:45-!- wedge010 is now known as wedge009 20190323 18:59:11< irker014> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Steve Cotton 8cb7f33f95 Test scenario High XP Attack: use the ma AppVeyor: All builds passed 20190323 19:11:32-!- wedge010 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 19:12:33-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20190323 19:12:34-!- wedge010 is now known as wedge009 20190323 20:00:26-!- TheJJ [~rofl@ipbcc08af1.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 20:03:16-!- TheJJ_ [~rofl@188.193.169.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20190323 20:08:26< irker014> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 nemaara 2b1d501758 Merge pull request #3998 from stevecotto AppVeyor: All builds passed 20190323 21:48:16-!- wedge010 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 21:49:42-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20190323 21:49:42-!- wedge010 is now known as wedge009 20190323 22:04:47-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190323 22:13:42< irker014> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Steve Cotton 3420bb17ea Test scenario High XP Attack: use the ma AppVeyor: All builds passed 20190323 22:32:47-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20190323 22:44:28-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] --- Log closed Sun Mar 24 00:00:05 2019