--- Log opened Wed Apr 03 00:00:05 2019 --- Day changed Wed Apr 03 2019 20190403 00:00:05-!- celmin|away is now known as celticminstrel 20190403 00:00:40<+wesdiscordbot> I think WoV is better than flight to freedom as it is now 20190403 00:00:45<+wesdiscordbot> as for WoV, I think that the bar it ultimately needs to cross is whether it's good enough that it can be improved later as time goes on. if adding it now would be entirely thrown away later, that would be a reason not to add it. so far I don't think the latter is the case as a whole though. 20190403 00:00:46< celticminstrel> Well, if you want the same campaigns in 2.0, they need to be rewritten no matter what because someone decided that there will be no backwards compatibility. Sure, they could be rewritten using the old version as a reference in order to get close to the original, but... 20190403 00:00:47<+wesdiscordbot> and flight to freedom was something like 20+ scenarios 20190403 00:00:55<+wesdiscordbot> yeah, what celmin said 20190403 00:01:01<+wesdiscordbot> all will be rewritten anyway 20190403 00:01:24< celticminstrel> (I still think the lack of backwards compatibility is going to backfire though.) 20190403 00:01:35<+wesdiscordbot> if I were the one writing WoV, I would throw a few scenarios away 20190403 00:01:41<+wesdiscordbot> but not all 20190403 00:01:48<+wesdiscordbot> so that's already not too bad 20190403 00:02:11<+wesdiscordbot> My own opinion is that WoV is acceptable, and it fulfills a gap in mainline content (no drake campaigns), so adding it would be fine. 20190403 00:02:15<+wesdiscordbot> since I tend to be more on the minmalistic side 20190403 00:02:22<+wesdiscordbot> minimalist 20190403 00:02:29<+wesdiscordbot> once we get the whole eating enslaved humans settled 20190403 00:02:34<+wesdiscordbot> ^ 20190403 00:02:39< celticminstrel> I didn't even read past the first scenario. 20190403 00:02:55< celticminstrel> But I'd probably throw that one away at least; not only does it have problematic content, the objectives are kinda weird too. 20190403 00:04:06<+wesdiscordbot> regarding the orcs, as I said on github, I'll wait to see what the final decision is on WoV 20190403 00:04:10<+wesdiscordbot> and how it turns out 20190403 00:04:37<+wesdiscordbot> if it happens to be kept and is done reasonably well, I'll try to support it a bit 20190403 00:05:10<+wesdiscordbot> if not, then maybe just keep the status quo or tweak those lines to make them seem more like misconceptions rather than statements of truth 20190403 00:05:49< celticminstrel> Pretty sure some of them are said by orcs though. 20190403 00:06:13<+wesdiscordbot> yeah but some are like "I spy my prey" or something to that effect 20190403 00:06:21<+wesdiscordbot> and that totally doesn't have to mean "I'm going to eat you" 20190403 00:06:30<+wesdiscordbot> prey is used in a lot of contexts 20190403 00:06:47< celticminstrel> Yeah, I did make note of that one, but only one of the cited lines used the word "prey", IIRC 20190403 00:07:04<+wesdiscordbot> I havne't looked at them in detail, still waiting on WoV 20190403 00:07:32<+wesdiscordbot> leaving some as misconceptions would be good, I think. 20190403 00:07:49<+wesdiscordbot> only one I'll change for sure on 1.14.8 release is the DiD one 20190403 00:07:52<+wesdiscordbot> that's not the place to have it 20190403 00:08:03<+wesdiscordbot> err 20190403 00:08:05<+wesdiscordbot> 1.14.7 release 20190403 00:08:10<+wesdiscordbot> given relations between orcs and others, it seems like a realistic sort of rumor to have around. 20190403 00:08:19<+wesdiscordbot> yeah 20190403 00:08:19< celticminstrel> ...someone opened a poll on it. o.o 20190403 00:08:32<+wesdiscordbot> two polls even, drakes and orcs 20190403 00:08:38<+wesdiscordbot> lol 20190403 00:08:46< celticminstrel> Yeah. 20190403 00:08:55<+wesdiscordbot> that's great, but I'm not likely to look at this XD 20190403 00:08:58<+wesdiscordbot> those* 20190403 00:09:01<+wesdiscordbot> geez can't type 20190403 00:09:27<+wesdiscordbot> ofc if celmin or someone else wants to handle those lines (and base their opinions on the polls) that's totally fine too 20190403 00:09:54<+wesdiscordbot> a poll??? 20190403 00:09:57< celticminstrel> I probably won't, except maybe the one in DW. 20190403 00:10:01<+wesdiscordbot> jesus christ 20190403 00:10:26<+wesdiscordbot> we are not deciding worldbuilding by poll 20190403 00:10:31< celticminstrel> XD 20190403 00:11:24< celticminstrel> I kinda don't even want to vote. 20190403 00:11:36<+wesdiscordbot> yeah 20190403 00:11:42<+wesdiscordbot> that would be silly 20190403 00:11:48< celticminstrel> The leading option currently is that they do. 20190403 00:11:49<+wesdiscordbot> but whatever makes people feel better lol 20190403 00:12:11<+wesdiscordbot> that's great XP 20190403 00:12:21<+wesdiscordbot> there's an emoji for this.. 20190403 00:12:28<+wesdiscordbot> ๐Ÿ˜ 20190403 00:12:34< celticminstrel> Oh for XP 20190403 00:12:39<+wesdiscordbot> yeah 20190403 00:32:10< wedge009> When have players decided something in world lore? Just asking if there's a precedent. 20190403 00:34:30<+wesdiscordbot> shadowm knows the most, but I think wesnoth historically has been built on the work of umc creators 20190403 00:34:34<+wesdiscordbot> so you could say since forever 20190403 00:35:04< wedge009> I thought UMC would be a big part of it. 20190403 00:35:15<+wesdiscordbot> in more recent times, really good pixel artists like jetrel and doofus have raised the bar for the game's art (and lordbob and kitty for portraits), so you could say those are more or less no longer player decided 20190403 00:35:21<+wesdiscordbot> because it really is at a high professional level 20190403 00:35:32<+wesdiscordbot> as for writing, that's not the case 20190403 00:35:45< wedge009> Yes, I appreciate those portraits (though I do miss some of the 'cartoon' era if only for nostalgia reasons). 20190403 00:37:32<+wesdiscordbot> as wesnoth progresses, less and less can be decided by players 20190403 00:37:52<+wesdiscordbot> since most of them simply aren't going to be professionals (or even amateurs) at the subject in question 20190403 00:38:25<+wesdiscordbot> so they won't have the knowhow/expertise to work out the details of each of the game's facets 20190403 01:10:38-!- wedge010 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190403 01:12:09-!- smiley- [mlsmiley@gateway/shell/xshellz/x-jknvmwujjyfphghc] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190403 01:12:34-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20190403 01:12:34-!- smiley` [mlsmiley@gateway/shell/xshellz/x-laeeiooyeidnqfer] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20190403 01:12:35-!- wedge010 is now known as wedge009 20190403 01:17:34< irker836> wesnoth/wesnoth:master sevu ed732cb0ba Update _main.cfg AppVeyor: All builds passed 20190403 02:59:43<+wesdiscordbot> downloads VS 2019 20190403 03:03:33< celticminstrel> NEVER 20190403 03:03:53< celticminstrel> I've fully switched to VS Code by now so I might never use Visual Studio again. >_> 20190403 03:04:01< celticminstrel> Other than for Blades of Exile, maybe. 20190403 03:06:35<+wesdiscordbot> i always use vscode 20190403 03:06:38<+wesdiscordbot> i need vs to build 20190403 04:06:50-!- TC01 [~quassel@venus.arosser.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20190403 04:06:52-!- TC01_ [~quassel@venus.arosser.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190403 04:17:46-!- irker836 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20190403 04:45:50< celticminstrel> No you don't. You only need the VS build tools, not the entire IDE. 20190403 04:46:09< celticminstrel> You could even do without the VS build tools if you installed clang and libc++. 20190403 04:47:41< celticminstrel> In theory you could probably also use gcc and libstdc++. 20190403 04:51:39-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20190403 04:53:38-!- valdar [~atarocch@93.56.172.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20190403 05:09:56<+wesdiscordbot> why would i use gcc 20190403 05:09:57<+wesdiscordbot> im on windows 20190403 05:11:54<+wesdiscordbot> and tdmgcc is an absolute mess 20190403 05:53:55-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190403 06:20:32<+wesdiscordbot> unless there's some other way to use gcc that's not tdm 20190403 06:42:36<+wesdiscordbot> msys2 ๐Ÿ˜› 20190403 07:49:39-!- valdar [~atarocch@109.112.88.63] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190403 08:17:32< vn971> Interesting, there's a bug on wesnoth right now. In "imkeksik"-s game 20190403 08:17:53< vn971> wesnoth shows that there are 2 players when I select the game from lobby 20190403 08:18:15< vn971> without imkeksik themselves. Two other players. 20190403 08:18:27< vn971> but when I join, I see 3 players, including this "imkeksik". 20190403 08:19:40< vn971> ouch, and it got worse somehow. Now I see only 1 player from lobby, 1 player on the player list when I join the game but 3 players in the list of players/teams. 20190403 08:20:13< vn971> (By the last list I mean the place where you assign players to teams. The one on the left, where you also select factions.) 20190403 08:20:49< vn971> exiting wesnoth and starting again doesn't help. 20190403 08:21:11< vn971> supposedly wesnothd went mad. 20190403 09:34:34< Soliton> what server are you talking about? on 1.14 imkeksik last logged off in february. 20190403 09:38:08< Soliton> ok, i see. it's actually Imkeksik. 20190403 09:39:48< Soliton> he disconnected before starting the game but it seems the game was not properly aborted. 20190403 09:40:30-!- elias [~allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20190403 09:41:04-!- smiley- [mlsmiley@gateway/shell/xshellz/x-jknvmwujjyfphghc] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20190403 09:45:00-!- smiley- [mlsmiley@gateway/shell/xshellz/x-ptefhaijvwyuhnho] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190403 09:45:03-!- elias [~allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190403 09:48:18< Soliton> loonycyborg: can you look into what happened there? 20190403 09:49:12< Soliton> i suppose it should be easy to reproduce by creating a game and disconnecting. 20190403 11:05:13-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190403 11:08:27-!- valdar [~atarocch@109.112.88.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20190403 11:42:49<+wesdiscordbot> @jyrkive I assume "make an enemy unit unhittable without telling the player that" is solvable. At this point I'm trying to think how to force an unpleasant event to happen without having too long a run of bad luck. 20190403 11:43:18<+wesdiscordbot> If the player has a bunch of 30HP unit it's kinda hard to force one of them to die.. 20190403 11:43:33<+wesdiscordbot> Right, of course it's solvable. 20190403 11:43:46<+wesdiscordbot> I just noted that it's not as trivial as I thought at first. 20190403 11:44:31<+wesdiscordbot> Sure. 20190403 11:57:37-!- valdar [~atarocch@109.112.88.63] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190403 12:43:05-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190403 12:59:32-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20190403 13:00:25-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|away 20190403 13:01:20-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190403 13:25:52-!- valdar [~atarocch@109.112.88.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20190403 13:42:01<+wesdiscordbot> I mean, I always save and load when I get a roll of bad luck? And itโ€™s not a bad thing either, itโ€™s just the way I play the game. 20190403 14:34:26< Soliton> you can play the game however you want but it's certainly not intended that you need to save+load all the time. 20190403 15:07:01< loonycyborg> Soliton: that's on 1.14? 20190403 15:08:00< Soliton> yes. 20190403 15:08:41< loonycyborg> if I just quit client in game creation phase it gets terminated properly 20190403 15:10:07< loonycyborg> so it must be harder to repro 20190403 15:24:37-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20190403 15:26:35-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190403 15:30:29< Soliton> did you join with at least one other client? 20190403 16:19:08< loonycyborg> yes 20190403 16:32:22-!- smiley- is now known as smiley` 20190403 16:35:53< Soliton> well, you can look at the log. i don't have more to go on either. 20190403 19:40:41-!- TC01_ is now known as TC01 20190403 19:45:31-!- valdar [~atarocch@93.56.172.28] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190403 20:17:44< vn971> Interesting. On 1.14, while being on "default" server, I have a checkbox to only allow registered users in. Is that a bug? 20190403 20:18:01< vn971> I forgot.. I think I raised it at some point, but I also think it was solved? 20190403 20:19:11< vn971> nevermind, it wasn't solved: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/2939 20190403 20:21:53< vn971> OK found a bug now I think. Steps: 20190403 20:21:56< vn971> start game as player A 20190403 20:22:04< vn971> wait for other people to join. 20190403 20:22:29< vn971> Disconnect the hard way, e.g. force-kill the app `kill -9 process_id` 20190403 20:22:32< vn971> join back 20190403 20:23:17< vn971> for users that joined your game, you'll remain in game. Even though your re-connected and might observe a different game by that moment already. 20190403 20:24:23< vn971> you can get into your original game by trying to observe it. If you get out of such game, the other joined players will still see you as active. 20190403 20:25:20< vn971> Basically what I think is happens, is that DC + reconnection does not lead to the usual cleanup procedures as if user disconnected normally. By wesnothd I mean obviously. 20190403 20:25:42< vn971> Should I write it all down in an issue now, or are there any thoughts on that? 20190403 22:28:18-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20190403 22:31:48-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20190403 23:38:07-!- madmax28 [~madmax28@2001-4dd6-eb42-0-ba27-ebff-febc-e0cb.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20190403 23:38:51-!- madmax28 [~madmax28@2001-4dd6-dec2-0-ba27-ebff-febc-e0cb.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190403 23:58:03-!- celmin|away is now known as celticminstrel --- Log closed Thu Apr 04 00:00:01 2019