--- Log opened Sat Apr 20 00:00:37 2019 20190420 00:06:34-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20190420 00:07:00-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth 20190420 00:08:46-!- Crebiz [~Narrat@p2E511AF9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.] 20190420 02:17:00-!- sevu [~sevu@p5B28FA31.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20190420 02:57:36-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20190420 04:13:03<+wesdiscordbot> I'm heavily invested in bitcoin so 20190420 04:13:06<+wesdiscordbot> "me too" 20190420 04:13:09<+wesdiscordbot> 😏 20190420 04:14:22<+wesdiscordbot> @Iris no worries btw you guys locked down nicknames here so I couldn't do that even if I wanted to hahaha 20190420 04:14:54<+wesdiscordbot> although it does make me wonder what people would do if a person's actual name was a url 20190420 04:15:54<+wesdiscordbot> Well, nicknames aren't needed for that. Discord accounts themselves can be renamed. 20190420 04:15:59<+wesdiscordbot> Not an important thing for people to be concerned about honestly 20190420 04:38:50<+wesdiscordbot> it is if you're a person who wants to subtly advertise their stuff while technically flying within the bounds of the rules of places 20190420 04:38:57<+wesdiscordbot> not that I would ever do that 20190420 04:39:21<+wesdiscordbot> for real though, it's mostly just curiosity 20190420 04:41:03<+wesdiscordbot> it's curious to me because I've encountered resistance to the idea on many discord servers, but then on actual online games - whether it's a mainstream title like starcraft or some open source thing like wesnoth - you'd pretty much never be punished for a url as a name 20190420 04:41:14<+wesdiscordbot> in fact my url is my name on the wesnoth servers 20190420 04:48:21<+wesdiscordbot> It can't be 20190420 04:48:43<+wesdiscordbot> I know for a fact that wesnothd does not allow people to have dots in their username 20190420 04:49:17<+wesdiscordbot> it's represented as "dot" 20190420 04:50:37<+wesdiscordbot> come to think of it I also see urls in names all the time in games like counterstrike 20190420 04:50:52<+wesdiscordbot> so it's interesting to me that people get upset about it in some places but not others 20190420 04:53:44<+wesdiscordbot> Most people aren't going to type out a name rendered that way 20190420 04:54:18<+wesdiscordbot> I doubt it would be less or more people than would type out a name with an actual dot in it 20190420 04:54:46<+wesdiscordbot> you'd be surprised though, one time I was playing agario and put in a goo.gl link and then tracked and saw that people were typing it out 20190420 04:54:54<+wesdiscordbot> and that's just completely obnoxious to type since it's largely random characters 20190420 04:55:03-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20190420 09:57:57-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has joined #wesnoth 20190420 12:23:55<+wesdiscordbot> this server is dead 20190420 12:24:16<+wesdiscordbot> no its not 20190420 12:24:31<+wesdiscordbot> it is still perfectly lively. 20190420 12:24:44<+wesdiscordbot> 250 members. 20190420 12:24:48<+wesdiscordbot> no 20190420 12:27:01<+wesdiscordbot> 219 online. statistically speaking, most will be offline at any given time. also, this is the Discord server, so it will not see the people in the linked IRC. 20190420 12:27:47<+wesdiscordbot> Since when activity of server is measured in amount of members? 20190420 12:28:03<+wesdiscordbot> also true. 20190420 13:07:02-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20190420 13:11:21-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20190420 13:51:23-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has joined #wesnoth 20190420 15:33:48-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20190420 15:43:01<+wesdiscordbot> it does get fairly quiet at times, admittedly 20190420 15:58:55<+wesdiscordbot> Hello! 20190420 15:59:52<+wesdiscordbot> hi 20190420 16:04:00<+wesdiscordbot> greetings 20190420 16:04:36<+wesdiscordbot> 👋 20190420 16:16:09-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20190420 16:43:03-!- psymin [~psymin@69.146.8.222] has joined #wesnoth 20190420 18:10:39< celticminstrel> Ugh... 20190420 18:12:10<+wesdiscordbot> rip hungover celmin 20190420 18:15:31< celticminstrel> Pfft. 20190420 18:15:44< celticminstrel> That's pretty much impossible. 20190420 18:21:38<+wesdiscordbot> oof 20190420 19:01:13<+wesdiscordbot> i have a weird urge to somehow make an addon that just adds pokemon 20190420 19:04:47<+wesdiscordbot> so do it! could make them attacks on special trainer troops! 20190420 19:13:20< zookeeper> nah, it should just drop a pokemon trainer in wesnoth, give them X pokeballs to use and then have scenarios revolve around picking which enemy unit to enslave-i-mean-catch and use to fight the other enemies, catch-and-releasing them when you run out of pokeballs and want another unit, etc. 20190420 19:15:32< zookeeper> catch the first few scouts that come at you, use them to capture villages and fight some of the other units, catch a fighter, use it to fight the archers, release a scout to free a pokeball so you can use it to catch a mage, etc. 20190420 19:15:46<+wesdiscordbot> something something 20190420 19:16:00<+wesdiscordbot> how about something pokemon mystery dungeon-related 20190420 19:26:43-!- psymin [~psymin@69.146.8.222] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20190420 19:30:13<+wesdiscordbot> you wouldn't be able to use pokemon as-is, at least, because of copyright. 20190420 19:34:13<+wesdiscordbot> well there are multiple pokenmon fangames.. 20190420 19:34:47<+wesdiscordbot> some of them actually were pursued for this. 20190420 19:34:49<+wesdiscordbot> many of which got taken down after Nintendo went after them 20190420 19:34:52<+wesdiscordbot> but they don't die anyway 20190420 19:35:11<+wesdiscordbot> In any case, an add-on using Pokemon IP wouldn't be allowed in the add-on server. 20190420 19:35:35<+wesdiscordbot> but you can always do anything as long as you don't distribute it 😛 20190420 19:36:48<+wesdiscordbot> anyway it's exactly the case when it more obviously becomes freedom of speech issue 20190420 19:37:08<+wesdiscordbot> like many of those efforts are not even monetized in any way 20190420 19:38:19<+wesdiscordbot> so nintendo's position basically becomes: "we must stop this fan production only because it potentially could take time people could use playing actual nintendo games" 20190420 19:38:30<+wesdiscordbot> Nintendo has expensive lawyers. you do not. that is the issue. 20190420 19:42:05<+wesdiscordbot> It's rather protection of their trademarks. It's possible to lose a trademark if the holder doesn't defend it enough. 20190420 19:42:41<+wesdiscordbot> that's a popular theory 20190420 19:42:50<+wesdiscordbot> but it doesn't hold to scrutiny 20190420 19:43:35<+wesdiscordbot> like trademark itself is nothing more than attachment allowing people to identity a product as coming from particular supplier 20190420 19:43:50<+wesdiscordbot> while fan games don't identify themselves as coming from nintendo 20190420 19:45:08<+wesdiscordbot> unfortunately we live in a world where Iceland the country has to sue to invalidate a trademark on "Iceland". 20190420 19:45:22<+wesdiscordbot> my dudes, my dudes 20190420 19:45:30<+wesdiscordbot> the obvious answer is to call it a parody 20190420 19:45:48<+wesdiscordbot> which is protected under law and neither nintendo nor any other litigious supercorporation can stop you from doing what you want 20190420 19:46:04<+wesdiscordbot> The protection US laws grant to parodies is very poorly defined ("what counts as a parody") 20190420 19:46:09<+wesdiscordbot> And also, it's US law 20190420 19:46:17<+wesdiscordbot> is there a country on the planet that matters other than the USA 20190420 19:46:23<+wesdiscordbot> Yes 20190420 19:46:27<+wesdiscordbot> dubious 20190420 19:46:33<+wesdiscordbot> You're a parody now 20190420 19:46:43<+wesdiscordbot> can't sue me, then 20190420 19:46:48<+wesdiscordbot> Yes I can 20190420 19:46:56<+wesdiscordbot> copyright enforcement is performed by most contries in the world 20190420 19:47:02<+wesdiscordbot> I don't live in the US :p 20190420 19:47:06<+wesdiscordbot> namely by those who joined berne convention 20190420 19:47:14<+wesdiscordbot> that just means I'm not subject to your silly freedom hatin' laws 20190420 19:47:16<+wesdiscordbot> but you live in america 20190420 19:47:24<+wesdiscordbot> most people don't know difference 😛 20190420 19:47:33<+wesdiscordbot> for real though parody is actually fairly well defined, although you might have to convince a person wearing a black robe that you are within the boundaries 20190420 19:47:49<+wesdiscordbot> The concept of fair use doesn't exist in all countries or doesn't have the same definition in those that do have it 20190420 19:50:03<+wesdiscordbot> If you're infringing copyright according to the laws of country X you can either have your content taken down if it's hosted (or the hosting service decides to abide by the laws of) in country X or a country Y under whose laws you're also violating copyright, or your site could be blocked from being accessed from country X 20190420 19:50:29<+wesdiscordbot> Or you could get sued 20190420 19:53:53< celticminstrel> Yeah, parody defense does not work everywhere. 20190420 19:54:03< celticminstrel> Nor does fair use defense. 20190420 19:54:46<+wesdiscordbot> They're the same thing in the US 20190420 19:55:06<+wesdiscordbot> There's no such a thing as "parody defense", the point is that in the US "fair use" applies to parodies and educational content 20190420 19:55:27<+wesdiscordbot> It is expressly defined as such there, but the concept does not have the same definition in other countries if it exists at all 20190420 20:03:19< celticminstrel> Ah, fair enough. 20190420 20:03:30< celticminstrel> I think it might exist in Canada but I'm not sure, 20190420 20:03:40< celticminstrel> I've heard it doesn't exist in Japan. 20190420 20:04:46<+wesdiscordbot> parody defenses are only useful for actual parodies 20190420 20:04:53<+wesdiscordbot> while fanworks are straight 20190420 20:04:57<+wesdiscordbot> generally 20190420 20:05:00< celticminstrel> Yeah. 20190420 20:05:06< celticminstrel> There's that too. 20190420 20:05:32< celticminstrel> Pretty sure fanfiction generally false into the grey area of "they could sue but they don't bother". 20190420 20:05:40< celticminstrel> Except when it's officially sanctioned obviously. 20190420 20:05:46< celticminstrel> Like all that Star Trek stuff for example. 20190420 20:10:11<+wesdiscordbot> the thing is 20190420 20:10:22<+wesdiscordbot> they often confuse trademark and copyright when suing 20190420 20:10:32<+wesdiscordbot> those lawyers are crappy 20190420 20:10:37<+wesdiscordbot> and will remain so 20190420 20:10:42< celticminstrel> Who is "they" 20190420 20:10:43<+wesdiscordbot> no matter how much theiy're pain 20190420 20:10:52<+wesdiscordbot> companies 20190420 20:11:10<+wesdiscordbot> in many cases they mix trademark and copyright 20190420 20:11:29<+wesdiscordbot> I think that history with star control sequel has it too 20190420 20:11:38<+wesdiscordbot> that confusing of copyright and trademark 20190420 20:15:04<+wesdiscordbot> I looked at some post related to that star control drama 20190420 20:15:29<+wesdiscordbot> even saw someone called celtic minstrel there iirc 😛 20190420 20:15:32< celticminstrel> Oh yeah. 20190420 20:15:45< celticminstrel> The SC2 drama is pretty awful TBH. 20190420 20:16:11< celticminstrel> I do have an account on the barely-active UQM forums. 20190420 20:22:03<+wesdiscordbot> hi 20190420 20:23:21<+wesdiscordbot> hello 20190420 20:29:37<+wesdiscordbot> soo uh 20190420 20:29:39<+wesdiscordbot> hows everyone 20190420 20:30:43<+wesdiscordbot> Either alive or dead. 20190420 20:33:41< celticminstrel> Maybe even both. 20190420 21:34:41<+wesdiscordbot> wait blizzard is doing some litigious bullshit against star control? 20190420 21:34:53<+wesdiscordbot> that's comical since they stole their entire concept from GW 20190420 21:49:30-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth 20190420 21:51:22-!- dobson [~dobson@68.ip-149-56-14.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20190420 21:53:31< celticminstrel> Huh? Blizzard? 20190420 21:53:42< celticminstrel> The only litigation against Star Control that I am aware of is by Stardock. 20190420 21:54:43-!- dobson [~dobson@68.ip-149-56-14.net] has joined #wesnoth 20190420 21:55:30-!- Haudegen [~quassel@cm56-229-75.liwest.at] has joined #wesnoth 20190420 21:55:42-!- dobson [~dobson@68.ip-149-56-14.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20190420 21:55:57< celticminstrel> Also, if GW means Guild Wars, I'm not aware of any connection whatsoever between that and Star Control. 20190420 21:59:22-!- dobson [~dobson@68.ip-149-56-14.net] has joined #wesnoth 20190420 22:02:52<+wesdiscordbot> Games Workshop. 20190420 22:03:45< celticminstrel> Pretty sure that also has no connection whatsoever to Star Control. 20190420 22:06:52<+wesdiscordbot> To close to Star Craft? 😦 20190420 22:07:09< celticminstrel> Star Control is nothing like StarCraft either. 20190420 22:07:23< celticminstrel> StarCraft is a real-time strategy game knda like Age of Empires. 20190420 22:07:33< celticminstrel> Star Control is a space adventure game. 20190420 22:07:34<+wesdiscordbot> But name is simmilar. :thonk: 20190420 22:09:46< celticminstrel> If that were an issue, it would be Blizzard to get in trouble. The original Star Control was released in 1990; the original StarCraft didn't come out until eight years later. 20190420 22:13:13<+wesdiscordbot> GW in this case refers to Games Workshop. Purveyors of plastic crack and grimdark. 20190420 22:14:00< celticminstrel> I did look them up, it seems they're the ultimate source of the Warhammer franchise. 20190420 22:14:00<+wesdiscordbot> If you are confused at the term plastic crack, just look at the prices on their models! 20190420 22:14:34< celticminstrel> No, I get what you mean even if I dislike your choice of words. 20190420 22:15:06< celticminstrel> I don't know specific prices but I do understand it's pretty expensive. 20190420 22:15:34<+wesdiscordbot> Yeah. SC was originally a WH40K game, but it got revoked while it was still in development. So space marines became free and, pyramids became zerg, and I'm pretty sure it was clear who got used for the protoss. 20190420 22:15:53< celticminstrel> By SC you mean StarCraft? 20190420 22:16:38<+wesdiscordbot> Yeah. Damnit, abreviations are being more trouble than they are worth here. 20190420 22:18:21< celticminstrel> Heh. 20190420 22:42:45<+wesdiscordbot> sorry I am dumb 20190420 22:42:47<+wesdiscordbot> you said The SC2 drama is pretty awful TBH. 20190420 22:42:52<+wesdiscordbot> and I thought "SC2" meant starcraft 2 20190420 22:43:25<+wesdiscordbot> and yeah bish pretty much covered all the ancient lore I was referring to 20190420 23:03:33-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20190420 23:10:07< celticminstrel> Well, Star Control has literally just been mentioned so I figured people would know what I meant. 20190420 23:10:21< celticminstrel> ^had 20190420 23:26:10<+wesdiscordbot> Was playing an ironman run on normal (lowest difficulty) in Descent into Darkness and ran across a giant spider while I was wandering around|| just after turning into a litch||. Needless to say, something doing that much damage with me already below half health ended my game in very short order deep into the campaign. If I had known about it prior to encountering it I could have done something. Would it be possible to add 20190420 23:26:11<+wesdiscordbot> some type of warning about it before running into it or setting a leash range so it stops chasing if you get far enough away? --- Log closed Sun Apr 21 00:00:38 2019