--- Log opened Sat May 11 00:00:47 2019 20190511 00:26:10-!- psymin [~psymin@host-69-146-224-142.static.bresnan.net] has joined #wesnoth 20190511 04:39:32-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20190511 05:17:46-!- clavi [~anonymous@v22019044422587899.ultrasrv.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20190511 06:37:25<+wesdiscordbot> Is the wesnoth forum/site working normally to you guys? 20190511 06:45:32<+wesdiscordbot> yes 20190511 06:51:14<+wesdiscordbot> just came back to normal here, thx. 20190511 08:02:26-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20190511 08:25:09-!- jemadux [jemaduxmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-yxtdvovekrlccevv] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20190511 08:25:11-!- veeee [v7ematrixo@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-davwbuurtevbkcdf] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20190511 09:59:32<+wesdiscordbot> I... 20190511 09:59:33<+wesdiscordbot> am here 20190511 12:57:35-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20190511 13:54:14-!- untakenstupidnic [~untakenst@5.72.251.153] has joined #wesnoth 20190511 13:56:36< untakenstupidnic> Would you recommend writing Wesnoth extensions as a way to learn lua? 20190511 13:59:53<+wesdiscordbot> Sure, if you're interested to write them. 20190511 14:21:06-!- Soo_Slow [Soo_Slow@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/sooslow/x-31376162] has joined #wesnoth 20190511 14:59:17-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...] 20190511 15:00:49-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth 20190511 15:06:21-!- Soo_Slow [Soo_Slow@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/sooslow/x-31376162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20190511 17:09:16-!- psymin [~psymin@host-69-146-224-142.static.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20190511 18:24:43<+wesdiscordbot> personally I would suggest learning lua on it's own if you have no previous programming experience 20190511 18:25:03<+wesdiscordbot> however if you know other languages, then that's okay 20190511 18:46:49< celticminstrel> "on its own" 20190511 18:46:57< celticminstrel> What would you actually do with Lua on its own though? 20190511 18:47:30< celticminstrel> I mean, Lua itself doesn't come with any general-purpose libraries (other than file access I guess) that you could use for general-purpose scripting or making a game or whatever. 20190511 18:47:43< celticminstrel> (I mean, the file access could be used for scripting, I suppose.) 20190511 18:47:54< celticminstrel> (But it probably isn't as good as other options.) 20190511 18:48:09< celticminstrel> (FTR, by scripting here I mean automation and stuff like that.) 20190511 18:58:00<+wesdiscordbot> Lua without attempting to learn anything else alongside with it could be useful for people who are new to programming 20190511 18:58:57< celticminstrel> But what would you actually do with Lua while learning programming in that case? 20190511 18:59:39< celticminstrel> I suppose it could work. it just doesn't feel like an optimal approach if your goal is learning programming generally rather than Lua specifically. 20190511 18:59:57<+wesdiscordbot> As an example, my programming education (in 2009) started with Java that has a huge standard library. 20190511 19:00:14<+wesdiscordbot> Having a large standard library is not a hindrance for learning programming. 20190511 19:03:52<+wesdiscordbot> standard loops, the use of variables and manipulating strings 20190511 19:05:35< celticminstrel> (As an aside... was use of variables one of the things a lot of beginners have trouble understanding?) 20190511 19:05:45< celticminstrel> (Or assignment specifically...) 20190511 19:06:06< celticminstrel> (IIRC there were three things, recursion was another one.) 20190511 19:11:46<+wesdiscordbot> no idea 20190511 19:11:59<+wesdiscordbot> when I started programming I struggled with the concept of arrays 20190511 19:12:18<+wesdiscordbot> pointers and references and object oriented programming 20190511 19:12:39<+wesdiscordbot> but some of those are not in lua 20190511 19:12:55<+wesdiscordbot> Pointers and references? Learning C++ as the first language is generally not a good idea. 20190511 19:13:16<+wesdiscordbot> I learned it as a second language 20190511 19:13:32<+wesdiscordbot> I started off with basic 20190511 19:15:13< celticminstrel> Pointers/references might be the third one, not sure though. 20190511 19:15:54< celticminstrel> I guess C++ wasn't technically my first language, as by the time I learned it I had already been programming with Hypertalk and UCB Logo for awhile... 20190511 19:16:20< celticminstrel> And a few other things too. 20190511 19:16:32<+wesdiscordbot> C++ was my first language :thonk: 20190511 19:16:44<+wesdiscordbot> DUN DUN DUUUN 20190511 19:16:47< celticminstrel> I don't think it's a bad thing TBH. 20190511 19:16:55<+wesdiscordbot> not that I remember how to do lots of stuff in it :thonk: :thonk: 20190511 19:17:00< celticminstrel> Heh. 20190511 20:32:11<+wesdiscordbot> Damn, first time playing the game, and the undead seem to be overpowered. All the resistances except magical, so you have to use magical units but then they have ghosts that deal a lot of damage to magical units(although, now I'm not sure, the description says so, but the arcane and cold are not especially damaging to mages; even the opposite). But still, fast level 1 with drain... and the lich is strongest l3 unit I've seen 20190511 20:32:12<+wesdiscordbot> so far, 60 hp with 12x3, 9x3 and 8x3 attacks, with one of them draining. I'm playing easy elf scenario on easy difficulty, so it should be ok. But in multiplayer is it really balanced? 20190511 20:35:02<+wesdiscordbot> Actually ghost is considered a bit underpowered. And you really rarely get to L3. Of course they have their good and bad matchups but often skill is more important. 20190511 20:40:14<+wesdiscordbot> Well, yeah, ghost is a bit lacking in HP, but its movement is really great for capturing and attacking weak targets on a swampy/shallow water map. 20190511 20:40:36<+wesdiscordbot> The AI still does a lot of unexpected attacks, especially with fast units. 20190511 20:44:26<+wesdiscordbot> Ghost is quite expensive. And there is not that much water / swamps in multiplayer. Ai is very aggressive. But it's good, it can keep you entertained. 20190511 20:45:33<+wesdiscordbot> UD are insane in SP 20190511 20:48:55<+wesdiscordbot> Especially ghosts, we know. 😜 20190511 20:50:29<+wesdiscordbot> Yeah, I was talking about L1 just to clarify. Wraith can be game-ender for dwarf. 20190511 21:06:03-!- mthe878 [~mthe@unaffiliated/mthe] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20190511 21:12:05-!- mthe878 [~mthe@unaffiliated/mthe] has joined #wesnoth 20190511 21:42:00<+wesdiscordbot> Yep, the mission was surprisingly easy, the ghosts are not as spooky as I thought. Too bad I lost the savefile of when I ragequit the game at the second mission of the "An Orcish Incursion" campaign after pretty much losing completely, it must've been crazy bad luck, because after restarting it a couple days later I easily beat it even with +20% damage taken and normal amount inflicted without changing strategy much. After 20190511 21:42:01<+wesdiscordbot> that pretty much every mission was an easy win with no losses. Is AI getting some starting money/income penalties on easy difficulty? 20190511 22:08:57< zookeeper> in SP campaigns, the AI virtually always gets more gold (and often higher base income) on higher difficulties. only on the easiest difficulties in beginner-level campaigns does the AI sometimes get less starting gold than the player. 20190511 22:57:47<+wesdiscordbot> Gotcha, too bad it is the usual way of making game hard with resources and not smarter AI. Have there been any attempts at creating strong AI? This one is already pretty good, especially at finding weaknesses, but it's also very quick, not like the superhuman chess engines that process a single move for minutes. 20190511 22:58:10<+wesdiscordbot> Oh, and I can't find online what SP means. 20190511 22:58:32< Ravana> it can process single move for minutes if you have units with too high stats 20190511 22:58:33<+wesdiscordbot> Litches are very hard for me too 20190511 22:58:38<+wesdiscordbot> Ah singleplayer? 20190511 22:58:39<+wesdiscordbot> SP=single player 20190511 22:58:47<+wesdiscordbot> I had to use several units to kill just one 20190511 22:58:48<+wesdiscordbot> Yep, time to go to sleep:D 20190511 22:59:16<+wesdiscordbot> Definitely, especially at night with the 25% bonus. 20190511 23:02:07<+wesdiscordbot> Although I got an Elven Sharpshooter, and it's probably equally as annoying to deal with considering its 10x5 marksman ranged attack. 20190511 23:02:35<+wesdiscordbot> Elves are nice 20190511 23:02:38<+wesdiscordbot> By got I mean discovered. 20190511 23:02:50<+wesdiscordbot> the rangers are super nice when you have a lot of forests 20190511 23:04:36<+wesdiscordbot> Yeah, but I don't totally get their mechanics. When the unit is ambushed by them usually it just stops, but sometimes also attacks the ranger it seems, but I'm not sure. Can units attack after being ambushed? 20190511 23:05:51<+wesdiscordbot> I use forests to avoid the ai attacking me, usually use the rangers for the strongest units without a ranged attack 20190511 23:06:14<+wesdiscordbot> the advantage of the forest is putting them in a place where they have a very high defense 20190511 23:06:25<+wesdiscordbot> and the chances of retaliation are low 20190511 23:06:36<+wesdiscordbot> the surprise element is also key 20190511 23:06:51<+wesdiscordbot> you can place weaker units around them 20190511 23:07:05<+wesdiscordbot> so that the ai believes they can easily take them down 20190511 23:07:15<+wesdiscordbot> and then you counter attack with the rangers 20190511 23:08:23<+wesdiscordbot> I also love using them to obliterate certain leader units 20190511 23:18:14< untakenstupidnic> Once I was losing the game and wanted to annoy the opponet, so I went to the forests with my Elvish avenger leader and woses and left him to search everywhere with his gryphons --- Log closed Sun May 12 00:00:48 2019