--- Log opened Wed Jun 26 00:00:14 2019 20190626 04:04:44-!- celmin|away [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20190626 04:08:01<+wesdiscordbot> hmm 20190626 04:08:43<+wesdiscordbot> might be a bit controversial, but I'm thinking about taking a couple of the less contentious changes from this thread and putting them in a PR 20190626 04:08:44<+wesdiscordbot> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=49964 20190626 04:09:33<+wesdiscordbot> (1.15 only ofc) 20190626 04:12:16<+wesdiscordbot> shouldn't they be tested though? 20190626 04:13:00<+wesdiscordbot> is that what 1.15 is for? 20190626 04:13:13<+wesdiscordbot> or is it not? 😮 20190626 04:15:44<+wesdiscordbot> something shouldn't be put into 1.15 just to see if it's balanced. not enough people play dev versions, and there's already a "ladder era" for testing anyway. 20190626 04:16:00<+wesdiscordbot> hmm 20190626 04:16:10<+wesdiscordbot> I just wasn't sure if that ladder era would get much playtesting either 20190626 04:16:25<+wesdiscordbot> mm 20190626 04:16:30<+wesdiscordbot> I have some idea of which changes might be desirable or not, but can't be totally sure 20190626 04:16:42<+wesdiscordbot> okay, probs should wait on it then :p 20190626 04:17:40<+wesdiscordbot> it seems questionable whether Cackfiend's approach will result in it being used much, or instead pushing away people who would be able to help. 20190626 04:18:08<+wesdiscordbot> honestly it depends on what changes you're talking about exactly, but nobody will be happy with balance being changed out of the blue. 20190626 04:18:22<+wesdiscordbot> idk why but ppl have poked me (specifically me, dunno if anyone has asked any of you) about balancing changes 20190626 04:18:27<+wesdiscordbot> so that's why I mentioned it 20190626 04:20:18<+wesdiscordbot> yeah I was going to take the least contentious ones, so ghost gold to 19, spearman ranged dmg down to 5-1 from 6-1 20190626 04:20:19<+wesdiscordbot> merman hunter +2 hp, and map changes 20190626 04:20:19<+wesdiscordbot> (after reviewing the map changes to see if they're desirable) 20190626 04:20:19<+wesdiscordbot> but you're right, people will complain 20190626 04:22:55<+wesdiscordbot> personally, mostly I'd just prefer if there was some consensus on any balancing changes, like how the Dunefolk have been handled. I'm sure Cackfiend is objectively a better player than I am, but I still wouldn't be comfortable simply taking something he's suggested and mainlining it without more to back it up. 20190626 04:23:23<+wesdiscordbot> yah for balancing it's probably better 20190626 04:23:51<+wesdiscordbot> not always the case since soemtimes an echo chamber can produce something really wacky and imbalanced, but dunefolk seems fine at least 20190626 04:24:19<+wesdiscordbot> different story from doing a community consensus on things like lore/art/music :p 20190626 04:24:40<+wesdiscordbot> yep 20190626 04:24:41<+wesdiscordbot> lol 20190626 04:24:47<+wesdiscordbot> I"ll just leave it and tell people balancing changes need more time to be tested 🤷 20190626 04:27:34<+wesdiscordbot> 1.15.0 is waiting on the Dunefolk overhaul anyway, IIRC, and balance changes can go in any 1.15.x, so there isn't a rush to get them in. 20190626 04:28:01<+wesdiscordbot> @josteph was suggesting that we might not need to wait on Dunefolk for a 1.15 release 20190626 04:28:03<+wesdiscordbot> there's a lot for it already 20190626 04:28:22<+wesdiscordbot> depends on if @Vultraz thinks we should release 1.15 soonish too, or to wait 20190626 04:28:42<+wesdiscordbot> (I finally remembered to ping Vult about 1.15 woohoo 😝 ) 20190626 04:28:49<+wesdiscordbot> 😛 20190626 04:29:11<+wesdiscordbot> I'm fine either way, at least, but yeah, it's ultimately up to vultraz 20190626 04:29:53<+wesdiscordbot> it would definitely be nice to finally get a 1.15 release out though 20190626 04:30:06<+wesdiscordbot> I think josteph was leaning toward an earlier release (i.e. without dunefolk) but he can comment for himself ofc :p 20190626 04:30:22<+wesdiscordbot> I'm not totally sure it matters, if 1.15 is a dev cycle release 20190626 04:30:31<+wesdiscordbot> since people don't really seem to play dev cycle stuff as much 20190626 04:31:02<+wesdiscordbot> it 20190626 04:31:15<+wesdiscordbot> 's still good to show that progress is being made 20190626 04:31:24<+wesdiscordbot> 1.14.0 was over a year ago 20190626 04:31:53<+wesdiscordbot> and 1.15's progress has been exceptionally rocky 20190626 04:32:27<+wesdiscordbot> maybe because 2.0 is going on as well? 20190626 04:33:14<+wesdiscordbot> also not sure what player expectation is either, whether people would rather have incremental improvements, or a revised, more polished/shinier/better version (but having to wait for it) 20190626 04:33:26<+wesdiscordbot> anyway, all stuff for Vult to decide lol 20190626 04:35:17<+wesdiscordbot> 2.0 is on haitus atm though 20190626 05:58:05-!- valdar [~atarocch@93.56.172.28] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190626 07:48:22<+wesdiscordbot> @Yumi I think what I said was that 1.15 is just a development release so we don't need to delay it too much. If dunefolk isn't ready for 1.15.0 we can just add it in 1.15.1 or whenever. 20190626 07:49:19<+wesdiscordbot> We have a bunch of changes on master that haven't been backported to 1.14 20190626 07:51:48<+wesdiscordbot> @Yumi Regarding changing the default era - a mod that allows testing the changes would be great. I suspect it'll be worthwhile to implement it since we can then reuse it for every proposed change to a mainline unit 20190626 07:51:55<+wesdiscordbot> Testing them in SP, I mean 20190626 08:39:34< Soliton> looking at the changelog a dev release seems overdue. 20190626 08:40:16< Soliton> for the balancing changes i'd wait a bit to see what comes of the ladder era. 20190626 08:41:00< Soliton> IMO it's unfortunate that they put that many changes in it from the get go but doesn't hurt to wait a bit and see. 20190626 08:42:15< Soliton> for doing balancing via dev releases: that's what we did before but at a time dev releases were coming out more often and we had more people actually play them in mp. 20190626 08:43:35< Soliton> if enough people are interested and willing to drive such an effort i'm sure it can be done again. it is some work though and needs people spearheading such an effort and get other people to play the dev version with them. 20190626 08:44:44< Soliton> if there aren't that many people an era that can also be tested on 1.14 is presumably more feasable. 20190626 08:49:44< Soliton> i think dev releases could also be made available on steam some way (beta releases or something?) and still keep 1.14? that might help in getting more testers. 20190626 09:21:00<+wesdiscordbot> celtricminstrel. Yeah. I am Nobun both in IRC and Discord 20190626 09:23:41-!- Rhonda [~rhonda@wesnoth/developer/rhonda] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20190626 09:23:53-!- Nobun [~user@51.179.96.106] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190626 09:25:34-!- Rhonda [~rhonda@wesnoth/developer/rhonda] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190626 09:26:07< Nobun> loonycyborg: do you know when celticminstrel usually connect? I see he searched me... I would like to confirm that I am Nobun both in IRC, Discord and wesnoth forum. Moreover I read that there is something about wmlxgettext documentation he would ask about. I am connected for every doubt. Perhaps better to call me @Nobun so Discord would notify on desktop when he would call me 20190626 09:29:24< loonycyborg> I'm not sure, just reply to whatever you can, he might be checking logs 20190626 09:50:44<+wesdiscordbot> we should be able to do a beta channel on steam for 1.15 20190626 10:39:44< Nobun> thank loonycyborg... Well I wait until he is active so we can talk directly... because I am not sure what exactly he need to know about 20190626 10:45:38-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190626 11:30:40-!- Nobun [~user@51.179.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20190626 12:04:19-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190626 12:11:05-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|away 20190626 12:18:21-!- EliDupree [~quassel@2604:a880:400:d0::9bb:2001] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 20190626 12:21:01-!- EliDupree [~quassel@2604:a880:400:d0::9bb:2001] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190626 16:15:55<+wesdiscordbot> @Yumi I think there is a plan to create ladder era tournament. Even so I don't think it will provide accurate results for changes mentioned by you just because there are lots of other changes. 20190626 17:00:43<+wesdiscordbot> The RNG doesn't like me today... p < 0.001 20190626 17:00:43<+wesdiscordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/593485789065773057/2019-06-26-165631_299x176_scrot.png 20190626 17:04:53< Soliton> pff, less taken; probably missed all inconsequential attacks. :-P 20190626 17:06:13< Soliton> perhaps it'd be nice to show how much it really is. i guess you'd need "ugly" scientific notation for that though? 20190626 17:06:52-!- Nobun [~user@51.179.111.135] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190626 17:09:23< Soliton> (i still find the colors confusing.) 20190626 17:10:27<+wesdiscordbot> what do you mean by 'how much it really is'? 20190626 17:10:52<+wesdiscordbot> I changed the colors two weeks ago. The screenshot is from an old version 20190626 17:10:56< Soliton> as in if it's < 0.001 or even < 0.0001 etc 20190626 17:11:18<+wesdiscordbot> the current version would show just "0.0" in red on the inflicted line 20190626 17:11:29<+wesdiscordbot> it's hardcoded to use one decimal place 20190626 17:11:30< Soliton> so 1e-5 or whatever in scientific notation. 20190626 17:11:55<+wesdiscordbot> that result is extremely rare though 20190626 17:12:13<+wesdiscordbot> the taken line is much more representative 20190626 17:12:37<+wesdiscordbot> for that line current versions would show "14.4" in green 20190626 17:27:20-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190626 17:28:10-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Client Quit] 20190626 17:28:18-!- stikonas_ [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190626 18:28:08-!- stikonas_ [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20190626 18:29:59<+wesdiscordbot> @josteph if you knew how little luck I have... 20190626 18:45:52-!- stikonas_ [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190626 19:11:52<+wesdiscordbot> dunefolk will receive it's final balance update tomorrow and I try to finish all art in this weekend as I will not be working on it over the summer break. 20190626 19:12:06<+wesdiscordbot> maybe then u can consider if you want to wait for Dunefolk revision or not 20190626 19:13:18<+wesdiscordbot> will the dunefolk rework be in 1.15? 20190626 20:12:58-!- APic [apic@apic.name] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20190626 20:44:57-!- APic [apic@apic.name] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190626 21:29:59< Nobun> celmin|away: sorry I am going sleeping... I will come back next days 20190626 21:31:25-!- Nobun [~user@51.179.111.135] has quit [Quit: goof night everyone] 20190626 22:18:41-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20190626 22:23:10-!- behalebabo [~behalebab@unaffiliated/behalebabo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20190626 22:25:19<+wesdiscordbot> @Nobun try pinging CelMin on github 20190626 22:25:55-!- behalebabo [~behalebab@unaffiliated/behalebabo] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190626 22:26:41-!- Soliton [~Soliton@wesnoth/developer/soliton] has quit [Quit: Battle for Wesnoth: http://www.wesnoth.org/] 20190626 22:26:56-!- Soliton [~Soliton@wesnoth/developer/soliton] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190626 22:59:33-!- stikonas_ is now known as stikonas --- Log closed Thu Jun 27 00:00:55 2019