--- Log opened Sat Jun 29 00:00:58 2019 20190629 00:52:24-!- irker358 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190629 00:52:24< irker358> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Pentarctagon 68c5abc86f People who have MP mod authority for tes AppVeyor: All builds passed 20190629 01:54:20<+wesdiscordbot> Alright, since when did we have a team working to rebalance the default era? 20190629 01:55:30<+wesdiscordbot> hm? 20190629 01:56:32<+wesdiscordbot> cackfiend DMed me saying he was told gyphe et al were not only rebalancing the Dunefolk but the whole default era. 20190629 01:56:36<+wesdiscordbot> if so it's news to me 20190629 01:56:38<+wesdiscordbot> :thonk: 20190629 01:56:41<+wesdiscordbot> huh 20190629 01:56:42<+wesdiscordbot> same 20190629 01:56:54<+wesdiscordbot> there's the dunefolk thing I assume everyone knows about by now 20190629 01:56:57<+wesdiscordbot> and ladder era 20190629 01:57:07<+wesdiscordbot> which last I heard was UMC 20190629 01:57:12<+wesdiscordbot> i thought the ladder era was a UMC project 20190629 01:58:32<+wesdiscordbot> I mean, if they come up with good balancing suggestions, then great. I hope they aren't thinking that the default era is going to get overhauled all at once as well though. 20190629 01:59:40<+wesdiscordbot> plus ghype had said he wasn't going to be working on the dunefolk at all over the summer, so that's even more odd to hear. 20190629 02:00:25<+wesdiscordbot> yeah, dunno where cackfiend got his info 20190629 02:13:27<+wesdiscordbot> maybe cackfiend just didn't read carefully or misunderstood, ghype has only ever said they were working on Dunefolk 20190629 02:18:28<+wesdiscordbot> as far as he has told me 20190629 03:09:31< irker358> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Pentarctagon e8f93d1c6c Also require observers to enter a game's AppVeyor: All builds passed 20190629 03:30:25-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20190629 05:17:32< irker358> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Pentarctagon 260306b211 Enforce game-level bans by username as w AppVeyor: All builds passed 20190629 05:51:17-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190629 07:23:02< irker358> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Pentarctagon 982abee3f4 Display when observers share IP addresse AppVeyor: All builds passed 20190629 09:24:58< irker358> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 nemaara 62270d758b Add TSG fix to changelog AppVeyor: All builds passed 20190629 10:45:48<+wesdiscordbot> To clear up the situation - I only work on the Dunefolk Rework on the moment. I realised however the biggest reason why default changes were so hard to mainline is that the threads they were discussed in are always a complete mess. By applying the same formula of thread organisation, management and moderation to the data regarding default balance, I could achieve what Cackfiend couldn't in over 6years. The data for 20190629 10:45:49<+wesdiscordbot> such a project already exists (comparing to the Dunefolk where there was close to no data beforehand) so it wouldn't even take that long for me actually do it. 20190629 10:48:52<+wesdiscordbot> Considering that Dunefolk Rework is close to be finished, I was reaching out to Seregy (the one user who seemed commited enough to provide value to this project) to recruit possible team member for said project. That must be how Cackfiend must have gotten a notion that I am working on such a project even though I was merely exploring possibilities for future collaborators. 20190629 11:29:52<+wesdiscordbot> I thought that Cackfiend didn't have any interest in default anyway just in his ladder era. 20190629 12:07:50< irker358> wesnoth/wesnoth:master nemaara b700678c35 Add TSG fix to changelog AppVeyor: All builds passed 20190629 12:08:33<+wesdiscordbot> I understood that the ladder era is an attempt to balance the default era. 20190629 12:18:58<+wesdiscordbot> it only became such an attempt with the latest heat about default balance, before that no one was trying to 20190629 12:19:39<+wesdiscordbot> "My goal has never been to make Ladder Era become the new default." I can link post if needed. 20190629 13:41:08-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190629 14:08:28-!- valdar [~atarocch@93.56.172.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20190629 14:11:25-!- valdar [~atarocch@93.56.172.28] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190629 15:08:19-!- irker358 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20190629 16:06:44-!- irker676 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190629 16:06:44< irker676> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Pentarctagon 8def869e98 Display when observers share IP addresse AppVeyor: All builds passed 20190629 16:33:04<+wesdiscordbot> @Rory though then there was also https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=49889&start=135#p643972 20190629 17:05:36<+wesdiscordbot> @Pentarctagon I totally forgot about that. I guess developers can take whatever they want from this era. 20190629 17:26:42<+wesdiscordbot> well let's put it this way 20190629 17:27:00<+wesdiscordbot> nobody says that ladder era or even revised dunefolk are 100% going to be in mainline 20190629 17:27:26<+wesdiscordbot> we still have to review it and make sure we like the changes too 20190629 17:27:58<+wesdiscordbot> of course it helps to have a community consensus, but if only say Cackfiend is pushing it and we don't like some of what he's suggesting, it doesn't mean we have to put all the changes in 20190629 17:30:02<+wesdiscordbot> I'd be pretty surprised if the Dunefolk didn't get put in, though. Probably the biggest question is the art, and if Doofus01 has anything he'd like improved about it. 20190629 17:30:11<+wesdiscordbot> oh yeah for sure 20190629 17:30:27<+wesdiscordbot> was just an example, just because it's a community effort, doesn't mean we may think the changes are all great 20190629 17:31:13<+wesdiscordbot> but I happen to like what they did with df 20190629 17:31:17<+wesdiscordbot> not sure about everyone else 20190629 17:32:42<+wesdiscordbot> well, if someone really objects to it, they haven't said anything so far at least lol 20190629 17:37:57<+wesdiscordbot> though I guess that didn't stop people after the drake sprite overhaul, so... 20190629 17:38:00<+wesdiscordbot> >.> 20190629 17:52:58<+wesdiscordbot> there's always people who like to complain :p 20190629 18:20:09<+wesdiscordbot> The problem is that changes in the balance often can work well only if all of them are implemented. 20190629 18:28:49<+wesdiscordbot> it depends on what the problem is, really. though IMO it's also why it would've been nice if ladder era had broken out what they were trying to fix more instead of lumping a whole bunch of changes all at the start. 20190629 18:41:20<+wesdiscordbot> Trying to fix everything at once might not only not save time but also usually will lead to worse results. So yeah I agree that small changes are better. 20190629 18:48:40<+wesdiscordbot> I will ask these people where they have been during development. 😛 Well I plan to watch over DF for some time after release (if they will be released) so I guess any feedback will be good. 20190629 19:06:54-!- irker676 [~irker@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20190629 20:46:49<+wesdiscordbot> as far as I can tell no is actively working on balancing default. I made an attempt for collaboration, it failed. now the projects rests until people are willing actively to do something about it. 20190629 20:48:23<+wesdiscordbot> I'm not sure "collaboration" is totally necessary, but default era changes do need to be tested reasonably 20190629 20:48:42<+wesdiscordbot> and should be from someone experienced with MP w.r.t. level 1 changes, maybe lvl 2s as well 20190629 20:49:39<+wesdiscordbot> but if, say, one person has some ideas on what to change, implements something where they can be tested, and proposes it to us directly, that would be fine 20190629 22:01:21<+wesdiscordbot> I think there should be made a lore and info in wiki about the dunefolk, how did they arrived on The Great Continent, their origins and so on. 20190629 22:19:57<+wesdiscordbot> it would be good to have it written down more conclusively somewhere. there was a thread where it was discussed pretty in-depth, but I don't remember off the top of my head what the result was, or if anything was ultimately decided. 20190629 22:21:04<+wesdiscordbot> I think it might've just ended up being that an eventual Dunefolk mainline campaign would have final say on it, essentially, if one does get mainlined. 20190629 23:01:13-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20190629 23:23:23-!- celmin [~celticmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20190629 23:40:02-!- behalebabo [~behalebab@unaffiliated/behalebabo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20190629 23:42:31-!- behalebabo [~behalebab@unaffiliated/behalebabo] has joined #wesnoth-dev --- Log closed Sun Jun 30 00:00:59 2019