100% defense?

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shadowblack
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100% defense?

Post by shadowblack » May 9th, 2010, 3:48 pm

See the screenshot - at that particular location (bridge over deep water) elves have 100% defense. Other races do not.

The map is Into the Underworld scenario by Bob_The_Mighty.
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100% def.JPG
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norbert
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Re: 100% defense?

Post by norbert » May 9th, 2010, 4:20 pm

shadowblack wrote:at that particular location (bridge over deep water) elves have 100% defense
It's supposed to be 40% and that's what I get there (see attachment).
When I load a game you were in I get the error that an unknown unit type "Elf Lord" was used (see attachment), because you folks used the Ageless Era.
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unknown unit type: Elf Lord
unknown unit type: Elf Lord
40% defense on bridge (flat) on shallow water
40% defense on bridge (flat) on shallow water
Last edited by norbert on May 9th, 2010, 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

shadowblack
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Re: 100% defense?

Post by shadowblack » May 9th, 2010, 4:22 pm

Blue player is an elf lord (or at least he looks like one).

And we use Bob's RPG Era, by the way.
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norbert
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Re: 100% defense?

Post by norbert » May 9th, 2010, 4:32 pm

shadowblack wrote:And we use Bob's RPG Era, by the way.
Okay. :)
But my point is that you used an era that changes the characters...
...maybe that has something to do with it.

shadowblack
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Re: 100% defense?

Post by shadowblack » May 9th, 2010, 4:37 pm

Maybe, because Elf Lord is available in at least two Mainline campaigns (both elven), so it shouldn't be causing errors.
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norbert
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Re: 100% defense?

Post by norbert » May 9th, 2010, 4:41 pm

shadowblack wrote:Maybe, [...]
There is a BOB_MODIFY_DEFENCE in misc_macros.cfg:
Spoiler:
From your screenshot I can tell you assigned 10 points.
Did you maybe 'remove dodge' or something?

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zookeeper
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Re: 100% defense?

Post by zookeeper » May 9th, 2010, 4:46 pm

shadowblack wrote:Maybe, because Elf Lord is available in at least two Mainline campaigns (both elven), so it shouldn't be causing errors.
There's no "Elf Lord" anywhere in mainline.

shadowblack
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Re: 100% defense?

Post by shadowblack » May 9th, 2010, 5:05 pm

norbert wrote:
shadowblack wrote:Maybe, [...]
From your screenshot I can tell you assigned 10 points.
Did you maybe 'remove dodge' or something?
My upgrades were Heal (3 times) and Run Stance. I switched to run stance (which decreases dodge by 10%) and then back to normal (which restores dodge back to normal). I think other players did the same.
zookeeper wrote:
shadowblack wrote:Maybe, because Elf Lord is available in at least two Mainline campaigns (both elven), so it shouldn't be causing errors.
There's no "Elf Lord" anywhere in mainline.
I was thinking of Elvish Lord (or whatever the correct name is for the sort of unit of Erlornas (from An Orcish Incursion) and Kalenz in the final scenarios of Legend of Wesmere).
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norbert
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Re: 100% defense?

Post by norbert » May 9th, 2010, 6:08 pm

shadowblack wrote:My upgrades were Heal (3 times) and Run Stance. I switched to run stance (which decreases dodge by 10%) and then back to normal (which restores dodge back to normal).
Well, the stance changes explain it, I think. BOB_REMOVE_STANCE_MODIFIERS calls BOB_MODIFY_DEFENCE (the code I pasted above). If I'm not mistaken, there is no deep_water in WML, but instead swamp_water. If it exists and they are synonyms, they are used twice. You should probably take this issue to this thread, since it has to do with Bob's RPG Era.

shadowblack
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Re: 100% defense?

Post by shadowblack » May 9th, 2010, 8:22 pm

Thanks, I will do that after some more testing to see if I can narrow down the problem a bit.
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Re: 100% defense?

Post by AI » May 11th, 2010, 10:27 am

It's obvious what happened here: whatever era you used gives this unit 100% denfence on deep water. This is usually unnoticable as this unit isn't allowed to move onto deep water, but a bridge has best movement of flat and whatever tile is under it, while giving best denence of the two.

This is why mainline gives units 20% defence on impassable terrain.

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norbert
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Re: 100% defense?

Post by norbert » May 11th, 2010, 2:42 pm

AI wrote:It's obvious what happened here
No it's not "obvious", and insofar it is, it's because I pasted the relevant code and explained what's causing it. You didn't even look at the code and just say that "whatever era" someone is using is causing it.

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shadowm
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Re: 100% defense?

Post by shadowm » May 11th, 2010, 2:54 pm

norbert wrote:If I'm not mistaken, there is no deep_water in WML, but instead swamp_water.
There is a deep_water in WML and it's not a synonym for swamp_water.

Code: Select all

# data/core/units.cfg
    [movetype]
        name=woodlandfloat
        flies=true
        [movement_costs]
            deep_water=2
[...]

# data/core/terrains.cfg
[terrain_type]
    symbol_image=water/ocean
    id=deep_water
    name= _ "Deep Water"
    string=Wo
[...]
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AI
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Re: 100% defense?

Post by AI » May 11th, 2010, 3:26 pm

If you grep around in the ageless era, you'll find several [movetype]s where in [defense], the deep_water key is commented out, which can cause *exactly* what I described.

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Re: 100% defense?

Post by Bob_The_Mighty » May 13th, 2010, 3:21 pm

Thanks for looking into this. I'll give all the characters 20% on impassable in the next version of the era.
My current projects:
2p Campaign: The Altaz Mariners
3p Survival: Save The Village

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