Heroic Lancer

Invisible Philosopher · April 14th, 2005, 9:18 pm

The Heroic Lancer being a suggested upgrade for the Lancer, and identical to the Lancer, even to the point of being level 2 [*], except that it has Leadership (and perhaps a few more HP).

This

gives the Lancer leadership, sort of, without making it too powerful, which was a common idea for an ability for the Lancer to have, and
allows the Lancer to upgrade without gaining an ÃƒÂ¼ber-attack, and
allows it to do a suicide-charge without giving the enemy a whopping 24 experience to level up before you kill the enemy with other units

[*] yes, that's perfectly possible having a unit upgrade to its own level number

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » April 14th, 2005, 9:22 pm

Heroic? Sounds like a perfect unit to do a suicide charge and boost all your units' morale...

Maybe a 25% bonus to all attacks of units on your side during the turn on which it dies!

Nice idea anyway.

Post by **turin** » April 14th, 2005, 9:25 pm

I would find it odd, to say the least, to have a unit level into a different one of the same level. I know it is possible, but, to me, it seems even stranger than having delfador level 5 (which I have always been semi-opposed to).

I don't think the lancer should advance. The horseman tree is diverse enough already.

Invisible Philosopher · April 14th, 2005, 9:45 pm

turin wrote:I would find it odd, to say the least, to have a unit level into a different one of the same level. I know it is possible, but, to me, it seems even stranger than having delfador level 5 (which I have always been semi-opposed to).

I agree that it's odd... it's too bad that level has so many effects all at once, maybe.

turin wrote:I don't think the lancer should advance. The horseman tree is diverse enough already.

IMO, I dislike branches that can't advance as much when choosing one way rather than another. And what's wrong with more diversity in advancements?

romnajin · Post by **romnajin** » April 14th, 2005, 11:21 pm

I think the more diversity, the better, like america.

Post by **Dave** » April 15th, 2005, 12:32 am

romnajin wrote:I think the more diversity, the better, like america.

I'm going to ask that anyone responding to this message please resist any temptation they might feel to turn it into a flame war....

David

romnajin · Post by **romnajin** » April 15th, 2005, 12:35 am

I was partially joking.

Post by **Dave** » April 15th, 2005, 2:14 am

romnajin wrote:I was partially joking.

And in case you hadn't noticed, 'partially joking' comments are some of the most likely to start flame wars.

romnajin · Post by **romnajin** » April 15th, 2005, 2:20 am

I would edit mine, but since you quoted it, it seems pointless, becuase they will know what I said anyway.

Post by **quartex** » April 15th, 2005, 2:49 am

I think that having a unit level up toi a new unit of the same level is generally a bad idea, players would find it confusing and it doesn't make sense.

Having a 3rd level; 2 horseman unit might work, but why would a player choose a lancer over the better heroic lancer?

If we really want to include the unit (and I'm not sure it's necessary), I think the best option is to make the heroic lancer a level 3 upgrade to the lancer.

romnajin · Post by **romnajin** » April 15th, 2005, 3:05 am

Yes, and give it a maybe 14-3 attack, and 10 bonus hp.(needs LOTS of xp to level)

Post by **Sangel** » April 15th, 2005, 7:10 am

Personally, I feel "Royal Lancer" has a better ring to it than "Heroic Lancer". But that's just me. What will it look like graphically?

sanna · Post by **sanna** » April 15th, 2005, 7:21 am

The horseman unit line has a division into Knight and Lancer exactly to force the player to make a choice for more power now, or the possiblility to level later. These kinds of upgrade choices, IMO, makes the game much more interesting.

That is, it was a design choice that the Lancer should not be able to level. I think the reasons for this still stands, and would not wish to see a level 3 Lancer. Nor am I fond of the level up to the same level scheme.

However, it can of course be discussed if the strength difference of the Lancer and Knight is adequate to serve as a trade off for lack of upgrade for the Lancer.

Na'enthos · Post by **Na'enthos** » April 15th, 2005, 7:53 am

I personally think the lancer doesn't need a third level.. and if it is given a third level (the levelling into a second level unit is just.. odd IMHO) I think it shouldn't have leadership.

A charge attack which doesn't allow enemy units to retaliate with their damage doubled like is usually the case with charge attacks would be great and fitting for a 3rd level lancer-type unit.

It could get a bit more hp as well.. but more than a new attack, a better regular charge attack (it could be replaced by the new one though) and more HP they wouldn't really need. They are specialists and they are great at what they do.

drachefly · Post by **drachefly** » April 15th, 2005, 4:28 pm

I like the level capping strategy, though it might be interesting to have the opportunity to get them back on an advancement track -- e.g. advances to itself or Knight.

I don't like the improved charge ability, it seems a little too nasty.